No Man's Sky pre-orders start March 3rd, $59.99

Day one for me!
I really don't know why people didn't expect $60. 99% of retail games are $60 and most of them have less contents than NMS. its an infinite game with 18,000,000,000,000,000,000 planets, a game with random mechanisms for making planets and creatures that never gets old... If you don't like these things, you shouldn't buy this game even if its $10. but if you're a sci-fi/space/exploration fan, $60 wasn't a strange price for this game with these contents.
Some posts about "indie games shouldn't be $60" are amazing! If NMS was an EA or Ubisoft game, you would pay $60 without a problem?!
 
I think the point is that non-indies have much more substantial resources at their disposal to handle the day 1 glitches, bugs, collapses, crashes, and clusterfucks. A smaller team would have a much more difficult time addressing issues in a timely manner.
On the flip side, smaller teams don't exactly have the safety net that non-indies do, so they have way more incentive and reason to not release a game with day 1 glitches, bugs, crashes, and whatnot than a AAA dev/publisher
 
I can't believe we've lost the point. Last winter or hell even before The Taken King.. the general press and so I preceive "the public" had the idea of what No Man Sky was all about. Sure it had a lot of points made about computerized randomness, but you got it.

-Endless terrain to transverse through
-Planets are created by a computer
-You ride in a space ship and witness intergalactic battles
-You use a gun of some sorts
-You have areas to uncover and gather data about your surroundings
-There's a general threat consistently chasing you, I forgot their name, but they are walking like those Tallboys in Dishonored.
-You can basically roam endlessly and keep going

What's not made clear to me are the hints about weapons. Do I just have one gun or do I get more than my ship and pistol?
Is there a planet full of things that are going to kill me?
How far (advanced) is the alien tech? Will it send me to an Independence Day style of spaceship?
 
Someday, in the year 2059 - people will stop using the word "random" to describe NMS procedural generation. Procedural generation is the opposite (in this case) of random generation.

Actually I don't think you understand.

No Man's Sky's universe is procedurally generated, which involves a lot of random generation, which has been seeded such that everyone receives the same random result.

Procedural generation means following a procedure to create something. It doesn't inherently have to have a random element. Typically non-random procedural generation is seen in texture generation, where instead of storing a texture you store the steps used to create it. A procedurally generated road texture would be like "fill this space in grey, then draw a dotted yellow line down the middle."

But at the same time, generating something with an element of randomness is following a procedure. The procedure could be "place 50 trees in this field at random locations, then choose a place to run a river from one side to the other." Random generation is just a subset of procedural generation. Procedural generation isn't anything new, it's just achieved popularity as a buzzword recently, a game feature to be bandied about.

Technically, Dragon Quest 1 generated its monster encounters procedurally. The procedure was "roll the dice every step, if they come up just right, roll the dice on what monster is encountered."

Computers can also use what is known as a random seed, where "rolling the dice" results in the same results in the same order every single time the program is started up, so everyone gets the same "random" result. It's still heavily random and full of entropy, it's just generated exactly once, and identical every time you use the same seed. For example, see Minecraft's seeded worlds.

No Man's Sky is all of the above. A universe rolled randomly exactly once, created by procedure.
 
What's not made clear to me are the hints about weapons. Do I just have one gun or do I get more than my ship and pistol?
Is there a planet full of things that are going to kill me?
How far (advanced) is the alien tech? Will it send me to an Independence Day style of spaceship?

You have one "multi tool" which is a weapon and mining tool, and etc. which you can upgrade or replace as the game goes on

You can buy a new ship with different weapons/no weapons/cloaking/storage/etc. But you can only have one ship at a time.

There are tons of planets full of things that can kill you.

We've seen warp gates on the surface of planets and stuff, which may be alien tech. Aside from that though, we haven't seen anything too crazy.
 
https://www.reddit.com/r/NoMansSkyTheGame/comments/2ewhfp/all_confirmed_no_mans_sky_features

The above link is a aggregated list of all confirmed features/in game stuff. I'd read that first if you really still don't know what this game is.

List may need to be updated, and it may not be perfect, but it's a good place to start.

Also people can look at my write ups because they're cooler

http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=196371824&postcount=62

http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=169421447&postcount=54
 
https://www.reddit.com/r/NoMansSkyTheGame/comments/2ewhfp/all_confirmed_no_mans_sky_features

The above link is a aggregated list of all confirmed features/in game stuff. I'd read that first if you really still don't know what this game is.

List may need to be updated, and it may not be perfect, but it's a good place to start.

Thanks for these!

I didn't know about this:
Stars on the galactic map will twinkle whenever a discovery is made somewhere, so you will occasionally catch that and see where someone might be in relevance to where you're at.

That's amazing!
 
Would gladly pay 30 for this, 60 is a bit steep unless the game gets some INSANELY good praise for being innovative and full of never ending fun activity
 
You have one "multi tool" which is a weapon and mining tool, and etc. which you can upgrade or replace as the game goes on

You can buy a new ship with different weapons/no weapons/cloaking/storage/etc. But you can only have one ship at a time.

There are tons of planets full of things that can kill you.

We've seen warp gates on the surface of planets and stuff, which may be alien tech. Aside from that though, we haven't seen anything too crazy.

That makes sense. I've tried following as much as they've released publicly (and I mean press shows and late night talk shows), but I've tried staying clear of too much screen splash. I don't want to get the wrong impression before it even comes out.

There's a lot to absorb when you first see this game because my mind was thinking about how massive they are making this game out to be. The E3 reveal was enough to get me interested in it and I just left it at that. I want it to be an experience as much as it presents itself to be. I don't want this to be another Spore where the general consensus is wow, but the release is nothing but. I'm not trying to compare this to Spore either. We've just hit that road block and you gotta keep the spirit alive if you're managing something this epic.
 
Omg I had put this game in the back of my mind. I'm way too hype for this. Back to looking at trailers and being on the reddit page, anticipating the release.

I'm all for the $60 price tag. I read that there was a event too that has an embargo on the info?
 
I'm watching the video right now, but in case it may be faster to ask this way: I know what you do in NMS, but has Hello Games mentioned if there is a story / what that story is? Like, not just impromptu hopping into battles / exploration, but an actual curated story?

Is it a game, like Battlefront, that's rooted in online play for longevity?

No Man's Sky doesn't have a story, so much as it has a lore that makes it self apparent to you throughout the game, according to the devs.
 
Would gladly pay 30 for this, 60 is a bit steep unless the game gets some INSANELY good praise for being innovative and full of never ending fun activity

Is every $60 game you buy innovative and full of never ending activity?

Just curious.
 
Are there changing weather effects in the game? That's something I always like to see.
Not just weather
There are things like rain, dust storms, snow, blizzards, storms and a bunch of other things possible. There are also more alien weather types, effectively like radioactive and toxic hazards, and atmospheres made from different compositions to ours. This isn’t a simulation or just a tech demo though, we’re not trying to recreate every possible natural disaster!
But also deep dark oceans
Some seas can be very deep, yes, and they can get dark. Maybe you’ll find certain creatures down there, and other things besides – you’ll have a light on your suit that’ll help you see. But these places are likely to be dangerous. One of my favourite things, that never gets old for me, is that feeling when I find some underwater caves. There I am supposed to be testing the game, and suddenly I’m distracted 100 meters deep in a cave discovering new creatures and running out of air.
 
Not just weather

But also deep dark oceans

:O

giphy.gif


I pretty much have to get this game day 1 now. I love games that do something interesting with the weather.
 
I wanted to highlight your second writeup because it includes so damned much that I didn't know about the game.

Fantastic job, Icyflamez96! I tossed it in indent tags because the original post is not really quotable :(



> > > Originally posted by Icyflamez96 < < <
General No Man's Sky Info

uFyb.png


Everyone starts off on a random planet on the outside of the starting galaxy. (There has been confirmed to be multiple galaxies)

You start off with a life pod ship, without a hyperdrive. Your hyperdrive is key to getting you from star system to star system and will be how you will cover the vast majority of your distance. You can fly from star system to star system manually, but it will take a very long time.

nomanssky1.gif


The goal of the game is to get to the center of the universe. The game doesn't force you to go there, but many players may find interest in getting closer to the center since the closer you get, the better ships/equipment/resources you will come across. Also, the game will get harder towards the center as you'll have a higher chance of coming across more hostile/dangerous/alien planets and stronger AI ships/factions.

To make your journey to the center, you will need to continue getting better ships and upgrade your equipment as you go. To do that, you need to have units. Units are the currency in NMS, and you can get units in multiple ways:

-Discovering new species/planets through exploration and uploading them to beacons will grant you units. You have to upload them before the units are granted to you. If you die before you can upload your data, then you have to re discover those things and upload them to get units for them.

468px-NMS_999.jpg


-You can get units by selling resources to space stations and trading posts, and you can combine resources to make them more lucrative. You can sell your resources to the stations in the native star system that you find them in, or you can take a risk and warp to another star system to sell your resources there where they might be more valuable and sell for higher. (I'm assuming it's that way because resource price will vary from star system to star system depending on how common the resource is in said star system) It's a risk because you could get attacked by pirates and possibly lose all of the resources are transporting, or you could get attacked by hostile animals on the search for hyperdrive fuel.

NoMansSky_TradingPost.jpeg


-You can also get units and resources purely by space combat and attacking trading routes/factions/freighters. You can progress all the way to the center without ever settling down on a planet that's not your starting planet.

If you die on the surface of a planet, you will respawn at your ship, but you'll lose whatever you had on you at the time. If your ship gets destroyed in space, you will land on the nearest planet with only your life pod ship and lose your cargo, but your bank account (units), multitool upgrades, and suit upgrades will still be in tact. It's always possible to work your way up from your life pod ship to a better ship with a hyperdrive no matter what star system you're in or what planet you crashed on.

You mine with your multitool. The environments are fully destructible. The multitool is used as a scanner, a weapon, and a mining tool. There are many different upgrades for it. The ones we know of so far are "laser beam, plasma grenade, energy shot, scan distance, scan type (certain things can't be scanned until this is upgraded)"

tPdC0Cw.jpg


If you mess with the ecology of a planet too much, (mining, killing animals) Sentinel robots will be alerted and may attack you where you'll have to engage in combat, or you can run and hide to wait for your wanted level to go down. There is a wanted level on the top right hand corner of your screen that can go up to 5 levels. The robots are not on every planet.

kYNsC5n.jpg


There is a galactic police that will attack you and keep track of your doings in any particular sector. If you try to attack freighters or space stations, the galactic police will be alerted and try to attack you. Same thing with different factions. If you help out one faction, you will be on good terms with them and you can become affiliated with them enough to call on them as wingmen. If you oppose a faction, they'll remember that and may be hostile to you if you come across them in the future. If you consistently play as a pirate throughout multiple star systems, you will gain a status that will make you more known throughout the galaxy in general, so you could go to a completely new place and you might get attacked by space police because they are already aware of your status.

NightDrone.0.png


You can also upgrade your suit. The suit upgrades we know of so far are "shields, resource capacity, jetpack (height and hang time), air hazard (separate stats for toxic, corrosive and radioactive environments, liquid hazard (length of time submerged in water, acid, and alcohol)"

You can upgrade ships but it is not completely clear on how it works as of yet. The ship attributes we know of so far are "Shields, laser beams, plasma shot, rapid fire shots, energy torpedo, wing (affects maneuverability), hull (separate stats to allow landing in toxic, corrosive, and radioactive environments), engine (general speed), hyperdrive (hyperspace jump distance), cargo space (split between cargo and hyperdrive fuel), cloaking" In this video it mentions ships having inventory slots that you can fill with upgrades to the ship, as well as cargo, and fuel which has some kind of overlap in the space they take up, so it's something that you will be managing.

news_e3_no_man_s_sky_presentation-16683.jpg


There are three main classes of ships: Fighter, Trader and Explorer. Each class has multiple prototypes

-Fighters are light and symmetrical

-Trader craft tend to be bulkier and slower, but with heavier weapons

-Explorer ships will have much better hyperdrives and stealth capabilities, allowing pacifists to run from every fight

p0YPvYx.png


To upgrade things, you will need units. You upgrade your suit and weapons at posts/shops/stations. Different places will have different things/resources/upgrades available. You can also craft upgrades with resources you find.

A crafting system (aside from just combining resources to make them more valuable) has been mentioned. Talks about crafting things from the "atomic level" Quote below

"The game's crafting system looks set to be intrinsically complicated but rich and intentionally obscure, for instance. After mining resources in pure atomic form you can combine them into more valuable molecules, and gradually build up complex crafted material for selling, or to use to upgrade your ship, exploration suit or weapons. Hello Games will not document how this works before launch, instead -- in the style of Minecraft -- leaving it up to players to discover."

A blueprint system has also been mentioned. You can craft resources in particular ways only if you have attained the blueprint for it. Also, "loot crates" will be spread out through the galaxy that you can find as just another thing to reward you for exploration.

Planets will have a pre-generated name, but if you upload enough discoveries from one planet to a beacon, you can rename it whatever you want. You can also rename creatures you discover.

You CAN come across other players and see them, but it's extremely unlikely because of just how big the game is. There are 18 quintillion planets after all. As you get closer to the center, the chances of running into another player will increase, but it will still be a slim chance. If you do come across another real player, there will be no indication aside from your own observation. If you see a ship that's flying un-AI like, then it could be another player. If you see a person in a suit get out of a ship and walk around, then it's probably another player. Stars on the galactic map will twinkle whenever a discovery is made somewhere, so you will occasionally catch that and see where someone might be in relevance to where you're at. You can also play completely offline.

no-mans-sky-e3-2015-demo.gif


There are a good amount of other details out there that I didn't cover, but if you don't like this, the game is not for you. Here's an information archive if you're interested on reading a bit more. http://www.reddit.com/r/NoMansSkyTheGame/wiki/archive


Icyflamez96, if I wasn't already sold on the game you would have sold me again. This sounds like the continuous space campaign part of Spore (and Space Pirates And Zombies) that I enjoyed mixed with the trading from Sid Meier's Pirates with a healthy dose of Minecraft added in. And the factions from GTA2. It reminds me of EVE in attempted scope.

Here's hoping it all comes together as well as it could.
 
Actually I don't think you understand.

Funny, I don't think YOU understand.

Procedural generation means following a procedure to create something. It doesn't inherently have to have a random element. Typically non-random procedural generation is seen in texture generation, where instead of storing a texture you store the steps used to create it. A procedurally generated road texture would be like "fill this space in grey, then draw a dotted yellow line down the middle."

Oversimplified, but that's more or less what they are doing.

But at the same time, generating something with an element of randomness is following a procedure. The procedure could be "place 50 trees in this field at random locations, then choose a place to run a river from one side to the other." Random generation is just a subset of procedural generation. Procedural generation isn't anything new, it's just achieved popularity as a buzzword recently, a game feature to be bandied about.

They are specifically NOT doing the bolded. They've stated many many times how they've written specific dependent systems to govern every aspect of the created game. They've stated that everything from the color of foliage and terrain to the shape of space ships follows the rules programmed into the original seed (which yes, was originally randomized) but you won't be encountering anything created or placed "randomly" in the game. Is the sky blue? That's because according to the procedures they've written the sky is supposed to be blue, not because a random palette swap picked blue out of a hat. It's blue because you are X distance away from X type of star and there's liquid water on the surface of the planet and that causes the sky to be blue. The tree is in X location because of a mathematical formula they've created to govern how trees are spaced and the orientation of trees and the type of places trees can grow.

Placing 50 trees at random is a bad idea, because there's the chance that all the trees will just clump together and look stupid. They didnt want that to be a possibility, so they removed the randomness from the tree placing by governing where trees can be placed. That's inherently NOT random.


There have been exactly zero instances I've ever seen of people complaining about "random" generation in regards to NMS that are complaining about the initial creation of the universe seed. They are erroneously assuming that there's just a bunch of palette swapped colors and things being dice rolled into existence, which isn't the case at all.

You can see Sean describe this here:
https://youtu.be/ZVl1Hmth3HE?t=38s
 
Reading that again really makes me want the game.

I wanted to highlight your second writeup because it includes so damned much that I didn't know about the game.

Fantastic job, Icyflamez96! I tossed it in indent tags because the original post is not really quotable :(



Originally posted by Icyflamez96:
General No Man's Sky Info

uFyb.png


Everyone starts off on a random planet on the outside of the starting galaxy. (There has been confirmed to be multiple galaxies)

You start off with a life pod ship, without a hyperdrive. Your hyperdrive is key to getting you from star system to star system and will be how you will cover the vast majority of your distance. You can fly from star system to star system manually, but it will take a very long time.

nomanssky1.gif


The goal of the game is to get to the center of the universe. The game doesn't force you to go there, but many players may find interest in getting closer to the center since the closer you get, the better ships/equipment/resources you will come across. Also, the game will get harder towards the center as you'll have a higher chance of coming across more hostile/dangerous/alien planets and stronger AI ships/factions.

To make your journey to the center, you will need to continue getting better ships and upgrade your equipment as you go. To do that, you need to have units. Units are the currency in NMS, and you can get units in multiple ways:

-Discovering new species/planets through exploration and uploading them to beacons will grant you units. You have to upload them before the units are granted to you. If you die before you can upload your data, then you have to re discover those things and upload them to get units for them.

468px-NMS_999.jpg


-You can get units by selling resources to space stations and trading posts, and you can combine resources to make them more lucrative. You can sell your resources to the stations in the native star system that you find them in, or you can take a risk and warp to another star system to sell your resources there where they might be more valuable and sell for higher. (I'm assuming it's that way because resource price will vary from star system to star system depending on how common the resource is in said star system) It's a risk because you could get attacked by pirates and possibly lose all of the resources are transporting, or you could get attacked by hostile animals on the search for hyperdrive fuel.

NoMansSky_TradingPost.jpeg


-You can also get units and resources purely by space combat and attacking trading routes/factions/freighters. You can progress all the way to the center without ever settling down on a planet that's not your starting planet.

If you die on the surface of a planet, you will respawn at your ship, but you'll lose whatever you had on you at the time. If your ship gets destroyed in space, you will land on the nearest planet with only your life pod ship and lose your cargo, but your bank account (units), multitool upgrades, and suit upgrades will still be in tact. It's always possible to work your way up from your life pod ship to a better ship with a hyperdrive no matter what star system you're in or what planet you crashed on.

You mine with your multitool. The environments are fully destructible. The multitool is used as a scanner, a weapon, and a mining tool. There are many different upgrades for it. The ones we know of so far are "laser beam, plasma grenade, energy shot, scan distance, scan type (certain things can't be scanned until this is upgraded)"

tPdC0Cw.jpg


If you mess with the ecology of a planet too much, (mining, killing animals) Sentinel robots will be alerted and may attack you where you'll have to engage in combat, or you can run and hide to wait for your wanted level to go down. There is a wanted level on the top right hand corner of your screen that can go up to 5 levels. The robots are not on every planet.

kYNsC5n.jpg


There is a galactic police that will attack you and keep track of your doings in any particular sector. If you try to attack freighters or space stations, the galactic police will be alerted and try to attack you. Same thing with different factions. If you help out one faction, you will be on good terms with them and you can become affiliated with them enough to call on them as wingmen. If you oppose a faction, they'll remember that and may be hostile to you if you come across them in the future. If you consistently play as a pirate throughout multiple star systems, you will gain a status that will make you more known throughout the galaxy in general, so you could go to a completely new place and you might get attacked by space police because they are already aware of your status.

NightDrone.0.png


You can also upgrade your suit. The suit upgrades we know of so far are "shields, resource capacity, jetpack (height and hang time), air hazard (separate stats for toxic, corrosive and radioactive environments, liquid hazard (length of time submerged in water, acid, and alcohol)"

You can upgrade ships but it is not completely clear on how it works as of yet. The ship attributes we know of so far are "Shields, laser beams, plasma shot, rapid fire shots, energy torpedo, wing (affects maneuverability), hull (separate stats to allow landing in toxic, corrosive, and radioactive environments), engine (general speed), hyperdrive (hyperspace jump distance), cargo space (split between cargo and hyperdrive fuel), cloaking" In this video it mentions ships having inventory slots that you can fill with upgrades to the ship, as well as cargo, and fuel which has some kind of overlap in the space they take up, so it's something that you will be managing.

news_e3_no_man_s_sky_presentation-16683.jpg


There are three main classes of ships: Fighter, Trader and Explorer. Each class has multiple prototypes

-Fighters are light and symmetrical

-Trader craft tend to be bulkier and slower, but with heavier weapons

-Explorer ships will have much better hyperdrives and stealth capabilities, allowing pacifists to run from every fight

p0YPvYx.png


To upgrade things, you will need units. You upgrade your suit and weapons at posts/shops/stations. Different places will have different things/resources/upgrades available. You can also craft upgrades with resources you find.

A crafting system (aside from just combining resources to make them more valuable) has been mentioned. Talks about crafting things from the "atomic level" Quote below

"The game's crafting system looks set to be intrinsically complicated but rich and intentionally obscure, for instance. After mining resources in pure atomic form you can combine them into more valuable molecules, and gradually build up complex crafted material for selling, or to use to upgrade your ship, exploration suit or weapons. Hello Games will not document how this works before launch, instead -- in the style of Minecraft -- leaving it up to players to discover."

A blueprint system has also been mentioned. You can craft resources in particular ways only if you have attained the blueprint for it. Also, "loot crates" will be spread out through the galaxy that you can find as just another thing to reward you for exploration.

Planets will have a pre-generated name, but if you upload enough discoveries from one planet to a beacon, you can rename it whatever you want. You can also rename creatures you discover.

You CAN come across other players and see them, but it's extremely unlikely because of just how big the game is. There are 18 quintillion planets after all. As you get closer to the center, the chances of running into another player will increase, but it will still be a slim chance. If you do come across another real player, there will be no indication aside from your own observation. If you see a ship that's flying un-AI like, then it could be another player. If you see a person in a suit get out of a ship and walk around, then it's probably another player. Stars on the galactic map will twinkle whenever a discovery is made somewhere, so you will occasionally catch that and see where someone might be in relevance to where you're at. You can also play completely offline.

no-mans-sky-e3-2015-demo.gif


There are a good amount of other details out there that I didn't cover, but if you don't like this, the game is not for you. Here's an information archive if you're interested on reading a bit more. http://www.reddit.com/r/NoMansSkyTheGame/wiki/archive

ok I must admit that this info comes handy, thank you very much. The factions thing seems pretty cool.
 
What I'm getting here is that this is a game in many ways as aimless and lacking in production elements as Minecraft. I get how they can charge $60 for a bomb ass game in that vein of endless toying exploration but in perhaps a finer degree, but I also get how it can be seen widely as less than the conventional $60 game tied based on the elements it is missing.
 
Any word on performance differences between th PS4 version and the PC version yet? I assume all we have seen so far is PC gameplay with a PS4 controller.
 
Sweet, unsure when this went from one giant Galaxy to being an actual universe with multiple galaxies, and "the center" is now the Universe instead of the Galaxy.

No Matter What, this game is bought.
 
Any word on performance differences between th PS4 version and the PC version yet? I assume all we have seen so far is PC gameplay with a PS4 controller.

There have been reports (unconfirmed, obviously) that the PS4 version had framerate issues few months back. Hopefully they've fixed it, or it was a bogus report. I don't think we're going to know one way or the other until it comes out.
 
What I'm getting here is that this is a game in many ways as aimless and lacking in production elements as Minecraft. I get how they can charge $60 for a bomb ass game in that vein of endless toying exploration but in perhaps a finer degree, but I also get how it can be seen widely as less than the conventional $60 game tied based on the elements it is missing.

I don't think that's the case, at all. Simply taking off from the surface of a planet and heading to space, and back, is pretty spectacular. The score is procedural based on what's happening (from 65daysofstatic), the art style is interesting and beautiful, and it's no pixel art game - it's frequently quite beautiful. The comparison to Minecraft works in terms of how story, goals and freedom of exploration are handled, but certainly not the overall production.
 
Funny, I don't think YOU understand.



Oversimplified, but that's more or less what they are doing.



They are specifically NOT doing the bolded. They've stated many many times how they've written specific dependent systems to govern every aspect of the created game. They've stated that everything from the color of foliage and terrain to the shape of space ships follows the rules programmed into the original seed (which yes, was originally randomized) but you won't be encountering anything created or placed "randomly" in the game. Is the sky blue? That's because according to the procedures they've written the sky is supposed to be blue, not because a random palette swap picked blue out of a hat. It's blue because you are X distance away from X type of star and there's liquid water on the surface of the planet and that causes the sky to be blue. The tree is in X location because of a mathematical formula they've created to govern how trees are spaced and the orientation of trees and the type of places trees can grow.


There have been exactly zero instances I've ever seen of people complaining about "random" generation in regards to NMS that are complaining about the initial creation of the universe seed. They are erroneously assuming that there's just a bunch of palette swapped colors and things being dice rolled into existence, which isn't the case at all.

You can see Sean describe this here:
https://youtu.be/ZVl1Hmth3HE?t=38s

The mathmatical formulae involved absolutely involve some element of randomness at some point. There may be large portions that are wholly deterministic, but there will always be some amount of entropy inserted at various stages.

Maybe for every tree that is placed, a short calculation takes place that decides whether it should exist or not, and based on the weather patterns in the area you could assume that there's a 30% chance that any tree in the area would've died before maturity, so they don't place it. In practice I highly doubt they would get so granular, but this seems to be the amount of detail you're insisting upon...just as an example, demonstrating that there is randomness at every level.

They follow procedures involving elements of randomness, but every time they request a random number from the generator, they get the same one they would've every time, for that specific request. Everyone will have access to the same world, but it was procedurally and randomly generated.

They could easily recompile the game with a new seed and the whole universe would be different. The trees that were in one place before now would be somewhere else. In fact, the planets that had those trees might be barren. They wrote some nice formulae that simulate some real world natural laws, sure, but there is randomness in the system as well.
 
$60 for a game we basically still dont know anything about.

Its got this, that, oh and that other thing. You can say that about every game but how it plays in game, thats what matters.

i really hope it turns out great but $60 from what ive seen so far is way too much
 
They can. I'm just thinking about it from a business perspective. I wouldn't be surprised if NMS doesn't sell at $60 because customers think "It's indie and should be cheap" I think it will help if Sony gave this a decent size marketing campaign and retail release to get rid of that particular stigma.

The vast majority of customers have no idea this game even exists yet, let alone know it's an indie production, and probably never will. The vast majority of people who purchase Uncharted 4 will have no idea who Naughty Dog is. The mass audience doesn't care. Games cost $60, and unless the mass audience takes it home and it looks like Undertale, nobody will bat an eye about it outside of threads like this on enthusiast forums.
 
$60 for a game we basically still dont know anything about.

Its got this, that, oh and that other thing. You can say that about every game but how it plays in game, thats what matters.

i really hope it turns out great but $60 from what ive seen so far is way too much
So I guess you never buy a new ip retail game then. How could you possibly know how it plays?
 
Is the preorder only for PS4? Or will PC preorders be available too?
I imagine so, if Sean is to hold to the PC version being launched simultaneously.
$60 for a game we basically still dont know anything about.
You're not supposed to know anything about it. That's the draw. What do you know about the universe? Not a damn thing. The game is built around that idea. Taking a journey to discover the game.

The game gets harder the farther in you travel. They are DELIBERATELY not telling you for that very reason. It's the core of their offering.
 
The mathmatical formulae involved absolutely involve some element of randomness at some point. There may be large portions that are wholly deterministic, but there will always be some amount of entropy inserted at various stages.

Maybe for every tree that is placed, a short calculation takes place that decides whether it should exist or not, and based on the weather patterns in the area you could assume that there's a 30% chance that any tree in the area would've died before maturity, so they don't place it. In practice I highly doubt they would get so granular, but this seems to be the amount of detail you're insisting upon...just as an example, demonstrating that there is randomness at every level.


Again, this is not what people are complaining about when they say it's a randomly generated game though. If there's a mathematical algorithm that says there should be a tree on a hill overlooking a cliff because it looks cool - and over the course of the game people see a million trees on a million hills overlooking a million cliffs, people are not going to get bored because of the randomness of the generation. They are getting bored because the procedure IS NOT random. What people are worried about is that the procedures they've written aren't written well, that's something else entirely.

Also, I'm not insisting they are any level of granular. Sean Murray is. If he's fudging, we won't know until the game comes out.

They follow procedures involving elements of randomness, but every time they request a random number from the generator, they get the same one they would've every time, for that specific request. Everyone will have access to the same world, but it was procedurally and randomly generated.

You insist it's a random number generator that spits out non-random numbers. I don't know how to reply to that. It's not a RNG, it's a mathematical formula that returns the same value over and over given the same parameters. This is inherently not random.

They could easily recompile the game with a new seed and the whole universe would be different. The trees that were in one place before now would be somewhere else. In fact, the planets that had those trees might be barren. They wrote some nice formulae that simulate some real world natural laws, sure, but there is randomness in the system as well.

Yes, but all the rules that tell trees where to be would still place trees where trees go. Trees would not just randomly go wherever. It's not random. If the universe seed is re-randomized and planet X is now barren and sandy instead of lush and forested - yes, the trees would be gone. That's not random, though. Random would leave the possibility that there WOULD be trees on a barren, sandy planet. (for example)
 
It's not as simple as "there would be trees here, then there wouldn't be trees here"

More like "when the universe formed, this sun formed here, so this planet formed here due to the gravitional nature of that sun, and the distance from that sun means this kind of atmosphere formed and these kinds of climates can occur, and because this atmosphere and climate exists, trees can grow, and due to the chemical make-up of the atmosphere and the soil and whatnot, this kind of tree can grow, and within this species of trees, the foliage can grow a certain way based on the environmental factors involved"
 
It's not as simple as "there would be trees here, then there wouldn't be trees here"

More like "when the universe formed, this sun formed here, so this planet formed here due to the gravitional nature of that sun, and the distance from that sun means this kind of atmosphere formed and these kinds of climates can occur, and because this atmosphere and climate exists, trees can grow, and due to the chemical make-up of the atmosphere and the soil and whatnot, this kind of tree can grow, and within this species of trees, the foliage can grow a certain way based on the environmental factors involved"

Exactly.
 
You insist it's a random number generator that spits out non-random numbers. I don't know how to reply to that. It's not a RNG, it's a mathematical formula that returns the same value over and over given the same parameters. This is inherently not random.

You must not be a programmer. All random number generators behave this way. Sometimes they're referred to as pseudorandom to be more specific about how they function, but this is just how they work. One really common way to seed your generator is to give it the system time, so every time the program starts up it gets a mostly random seed (down to milliseconds) so that every run will be different, but it's just as easy to seed it with the number 42 and get the same rolls every time. By that I mean the sequence - first request for a random number is 8, second is 13, third is 2, etc. on and on. The numbers are random but you get the same random numbers every time, as long as you use the same seed.

It's not as simple as "there would be trees here, then there wouldn't be trees here"

More like "when the universe formed, this sun formed here, so this planet formed here due to the gravitional nature of that sun, and the distance from that sun means this kind of atmosphere formed and these kinds of climates can occur, and because this atmosphere and climate exists, trees can grow, and due to the chemical make-up of the atmosphere and the soil and whatnot, this kind of tree can grow, and within this species of trees, the foliage can grow a certain way based on the environmental factors involved"

I can guarantee you that they don't exactly get that granular in NMS. Dwarf Fortress doesn't even get that granular and it can take half an hour to generate one single world, and he does the whole thing with mountains forming and rivers running down from there to the sea, and the shadow of the mountain creating deserts and all that. But I'm sure NMS uses a shorthand that gives results that are not far off from something realistic.
 
It's not as simple as "there would be trees here, then there wouldn't be trees here"

More like "when the universe formed, this sun formed here, so this planet formed here due to the gravitional nature of that sun, and the distance from that sun means this kind of atmosphere formed and these kinds of climates can occur, and because this atmosphere and climate exists, trees can grow, and due to the chemical make-up of the atmosphere and the soil and whatnot, this kind of tree can grow, and within this species of trees, the foliage can grow a certain way based on the environmental factors involved"
I imagine that there are freedoms taken to make it so there aren't just a ton of barren, desert planets out there. Planets that can support life are pretty rare.
 
You must not be a programmer. All random number generators behave this way. Sometimes they're referred to as pseudorandom to be more specific about how they function, but this is just how they work. One really common way to seed your generator is to give it the system time, so every time the program starts up it gets a mostly random seed (down to milliseconds) so that every run will be different, but it's just as easy to seed it with the number 42 and get the same rolls every time. By that I mean the sequence - first request for a random number is 8, second is 13, third is 2, etc. on and on. The numbers are random but you get the same random numbers every time.

Lets obfuscate the point and argue semantics then, I guess? You don't have to be a programmer to know what the word random means, or to see how people are using it to refer to this game. Or to listen to Sean Murray specifically state that the generation in NMS is not random in that way.
 
I imagine that there are freedoms taken to make it so there aren't just a ton of barren, desert planets out there. Planets that can support life are pretty rare.

There will be a lot of "lifeless" planets, but there will still be points of interest on them. Minerals to mine and wrecks and etc. But yeah, there will be significantly more "live" planets in NMS than there would be in any realistic simulation.
 
Nah I aint paying 59.99 let alone 79.99CAD for a game like this.

I'm just gonna wait for it in a sale definitely not worth it for that high of a price.
 
In interviews, they've said the generation goes as far as the shape of leaves on trees. They even redesigned the periodic table so planet atmospheres would diffract light at different wavelengths and thus have different colored skies.
 
In interviews, they've said the generation goes as far as the shape of leaves on trees. They even redesigned the periodic table so planet atmospheres would diffract light at different wavelengths and thus have different colored skies.

This is marketing. Game engines don't have time for that kind of micromanagement. In practice there will be a skybox with a color overlay assigned to it, and while the color is surely based on a formula appropriate to that planet, there's no way the engine is calculating how the light would hit your eyes differently based on volumetric particles present in the atmosphere depending on where you're standing etc.

I'm not saying it won't look pretty or won't be varied enough to be interesting or anything like that. :)
 
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