No offense to realistic games, but stylized games just crap all over them in every way.

Technically speaking (heh), a stylzied design can still incorporate realistic shading or texturing.

Ancient Greek or Roman statues where exactly that. They were made of real material, yet they clearly represented exaggerated portrayals of man.

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As long as it's clearly something birthed from the imagination and not just a carbon copy of real life, it still counts.
Yeah, what was it with those giant dicks ?!
 
1. realism =\= technologies
2. realistic visual ages well if implemented properly.
3. realism also can be an artistic decision and better suit for some genres/ worlds/Lores

arma 2 as an example. Mediocre techs, many graphics techs and engine from 90s,
hovewer because of some artistic choices(gamma/colors/hdr/bloom/motion blur, materials etc) it still looks more realistic than modern military shooters and looks more suitable and actual for eastern war conflict then more technological games.
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Let's allow the developers and artists do what they want.
 
1. realism =\= technologies
2. realistic visual ages well if implemented properly.
3. realism also can be an artistic decision and better suit for some genres/ worlds/Lores

arma 2 as an example. Mediocre techs, many graphics techs and engine from 90s,
hovewer because of some artistic choices(gamma/colors/hdr/bloom/motion blur, materials etc) it still looks more realistic than modern military shooters and looks more suitable and actual for eastern war conflict then more technological games.


Let's allow the developers and artists do what they want.
I wont stop a developer from making a realistic game on their volition.

But if I could persuade or argue the benefits that I believe stylized visuals have over contemporary realism, then what is the issue?

Perhaps some people think I don't want any realism at all in video games? This is a misconception.
Many stylized art can incoporate realistic settings or ideas. But at the heart of the visuals, they are still designed in a way that appeals to people without necessarily looking like a photograph (or attemping to be one).

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Waltz with Bashir is an Israeli movie that covers the 1982 Lebanon War. It's a very real topic, but it still uses stylized visuals to convey it.
 
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But if I could persuade or argue the benefits that I believe stylized visuals have over contemporary realism, then what is the issue?
why do you need to argue?
I guess devs in AAA industry are professionals. Do you think you could argue Hideo kojima down and convince him to recreate DS with cartoon visuals instead of almost photorealistic Irish landscapes?
 
i see what youre saying but i still want to play games that have realistic looking graphics sometimes. especially if its new and has nice, shiny graphics. i like that.
 
why do you need to argue?
Because life doesn't exist where everyone holds the correct answer to everything. Subconsciously or not.
The free flow of information and ideas help challenge norms and molds society so that we do reach a better understanding of our surroundings. Call it the scientific method if you will.

carsar said:
I guess devs in AAA industry are professionals. Do you think you could argue Hideo kojima down and convince him to recreate DS with cartoon visuals instead of almost photorealistic Irish landscapes?
if he doesn't find the idea to contradict his own set of personal goals and beliefs, perhaps.

I'm unaware of a time or place where he himself has come out against such a idea or would never explore it? Especially since he was involved in two PSP games that did take on such a direction?

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Somewhat true. Realistic games tend to have pig ugly nu-people in them, with stylized games more likely to have traditional character designs where everyone looks normal to hot based on traits/story needs.
 
Some of the most beautiful games I know are realistic at the base, like Kingdom Come and RDR2 (also take a look at the upcoming Flight Simulator, it's breathtaking). So I honestly don't understand your blanket statement.
 
Especially since he was involved in two PSP games
So, he do what he want and well-informed about different artistic styles. In result, he visited Ireland, has taken bunch of photos and has chosen realistic style for DS.
I prefer his vision.
 
So, he do what he want and well-informed about different artistic styles. In result, he visited Ireland, has taken bunch of photos and has chosen realistic style for DS.
I prefer his vision.
Kojima made DS. You asked me if he could have designed it any other way and I gave my thoughts coupled with evidence.
 
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I guess that we need a middle term

Shenmue is a game with a foot in the ground and barely has anything "videogameish" - the most close to the videogame formula it's the fighting, which is pulled from Virtua Fighter, but even this is kinda tough in comparison with the real VF. But take a game like Breath of the Wild, that allow you to get a stick of fire and turns animals in meat in a second. It's not a fair comparison...

But for sure we have games that needs to be more easy on the stuff, like Red Dead Redemption 2 and the slow ass eating or carving and whatever. You can do better, Rockstar
 


So i suppose some of you think this is bad looking, and would rather have cell shading and Mario sticking his head out of the side window of the planes?.
 
because of my love for film I tend to buy games with graphics that resemble real life. But If the story catches me I will always try it out.
 


So i suppose some of you think this is bad looking, and would rather have cell shading and Mario sticking his head out of the side window of the planes?.

I would like to see shaders where realistic places or environments can be rendered while giving them a distinct visual identity.

Cel-shading was never the only method. Certainly other popular art mediums exist as well.
Like watercolor.

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Or even paper/papercraft.

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I think this thread is proof that there are still people who associated "stylized" with just being a cartoon, even though the topic is far bigger than that.

But realism only for the sake of realism? When it comes to graphics, it never stays the same and it looks bad over time.
 
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What's up with the misconception of Stylized=cartoon.
That's bollocks.
How close the tech get's you your style it's what defines the longevity.

But yeah, sure, every game that looks cartoony will still look cartoony in the future.That doesn't mean that it's good art direction or even stylized.

Let's do an exercise, because it's easy to miss remember things :
iu

iu

iu

iu

iu

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Point is, old shit still looks like old shit if it was not able to reach the target art style when developed, which is why it's more important in videogames to work around what you can actually do with graphics than whatever art you want to push.
I'd say that now tho, some studios are pretty able to push realistic stylized graphics and they will age pretty well, and cartoon graphics are also almost at their peak.
But can always make them look shit compared to the new things you can do with tech.
 
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Because life doesn't exist where everyone holds the correct answer to everything. Subconsciously or not.
The free flow of information and ideas help challenge norms and molds society so that we do reach a better understanding of our surroundings. Call it the scientific method if you will.


if he doesn't find the idea to contradict his own set of personal goals and beliefs, perhaps.

I'm unaware of a time or place where he himself has come out against such a idea or would never explore it? Especially since he was involved in two PSP games that did take on such a direction?

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FYI, Kojima didn't direct those, he directed PW, not that it matter because every MGS game it's stylized even if not aiming for cartoon graphics as you are portraying cartoons=style.
 
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I think both styles can coexist and there's good and bad examples of both.
While stylized graphics tend to age better, I think in the moment realistic ones tend to be more impressive.

Also, I honestly don't think realistic current gen games will age badly. In time they'll look dated, sure, but I don't think they'll look bad in the same way as early 3D games do.
It's already true for last gen games too. In motion stuff like God of War 3 or Uncharted 2 might look somewhat dated but I don't think they look bad at all:

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I would say God of War 3 is not realistic and I'm not even talking about the overall art direction but also character models.
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This very much stylized, similar to FFVIIR.

Under that definition everything was stylized last gen since the tech to make "realistic" models wasn't there yet.
 
Under that definition everything was stylized last gen since the tech to make "realistic" models wasn't there yet.
Well I would say it much more stylize compared to Heavy Rain and original The Last of Us. The character builds in God of War 3 is much more exaggerated compared to those games.
 
With next generation consoles on the horizon, Publishers are once again going for the lamest gimmick ever to sell new games.

"Buy our game because it looks like real life, LOL"

But how exactly is this impressive, especially when "realistic" games also look dated after a couple of months?

Meanwhile, my jaw just dropped for the longest time since maybe the first time I got a hold of a Gameube as a child when I saw this character
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Now you may be thinking "Big deal? Just another Anime character" but what impressed me is that, the whole point of stylized games is to make visuals or graphics that just look "cool".

And honestly, it was the most stylish thing I've seen in a long time.

And if you're still not impressed, ask yourself, when was the last time you could draw something that was so cool or different? It's easy to dismiss these games or visuals but it takes serious talent to make something that defies real life expectations and just make stuff that is pure imagination.

To me, that's better than just a game whose gimmick is "we scanned a real tree and a real rock, and put it in our game". :messenger_confused:

This sums everything I feel about modern gaming. After the 7th generation consoles rolled out, I realized that the realism was just marketing. I'm not a graphics or engine junkie. If it's fun and genuine...I'll consider playing it; if it's just the next fad in cool graphics...I'll pass. I don't mind what the next gen has to offer; I appreciate that they're doing something. But I feel like we did this already in 2000, 2006, 2012, etc...
 
Honestly, I'm inclined to agree. Don't get me wrong, I love very realistic art style games too, but games like Oblivion, Borderlands, XIII and various anime games have aged well is because they aren't trying to be realistic, and are all incredibly stylized with a solid art style (Oblivion objectively looks pretty bad, but it also has a bright and colorful art style and the lower detail textures honestly make it look like a painting, so it's aged pretty well in my opinion).

And I mean hell, with games with realistic art styles, the stylized elements are usually what will allow it to hold up (Halo CE's aliens and Cheif's armor, Gears of War and the extremely bulky and disproportionate characters and body designs etc)

It's one of the reasons that I am looking forward to Everwild so much. It looks absolutely beautiful in a timeless way and if it has a good HDR implementation (and being an XGS game I am convinced it will) then it will likely be one of the greatest looking games I have ever seen.
 
I agree with the OP. For me personally I love escapism in games, and while I do enjoy realistic graphics on occasion I feel that most age very poorly. Whereas I can look at some oldschool cover art and get lost in my imagination. Lately as well many of my loves in gaming, including beautiful and sexy women have disappeared in most western games, along with discovering that I'll take an unrealistic stylized game any day over some realistic one as long as its fun to play or makes me feel good. Its incredible too, since cartoony, anime, and stylized games have gotten me emotional more than realistic ones, hell I remember crying over the twin's sacrifice in FFIV.

Also a personal beef of mine: why must everything be mocapped? I know the tech is still improving, but in practice I keep getting taken out of the experience when animations try to align or get close enough to connect or just clip through. One thing I absolutely love is quality animators, like Japanese games are often really smooth and stylish and cool, quite fast and I can cancel out of actions. And studios like Naughty Dog are ok but many scenes in UC4 and TLoU2 look janky compared to their own work in the Jak and Daxter trilogy. I'll forever take the later series for its style and animations not to mention a plethora of other factors. I'm obviously ok with both existing with plenty of overlaps but my preference will always go to the stylized game every time.
 
So if we're getting "different" art styles, why do Publishers keep pumping out the same generic military shooter every year?

Why haven't I heard of AAA games that go for a watercolor or hand drawn look yet (that isn't made by Japan)?
innovation and imagination just went out the window in most (not all) cases for headlining developers. Once again, don't feel I've lived through this fad before.
 

At the same time though, I'm not entirely convinced they were going for a completely realistic art style for this game. Even at modern resolutions, everything looks kind of like a moving painting with the colors and general blur. And in my opinion with the art style considered, Oblivion has aged better than many contemporary games. It all just "fits" in my opinion, but I understand if you feel that the presentation just looks bad, as all art is subjective after all.
 
But how exactly is this impressive, especially when "realistic" games also look dated after a couple of months?
I don't really think this holds up anymore. It was a fair point during the 360 era, but I don't think I'm gonna get to the point where I look back at games from this gen and I'm like wow TLOU2 looks ugly now, or GoW 5 is hard to look at now. Eventually you get to the point where realistic games look so good they won't age poorly anymore even if new games look better those old games still look good.
 
I agree that stylized games do tend to age better, and more often than not have far more appeal then anything that lays claim to pushing the boundaries of "realism." Give me Splatoon 2, and Overwatch any day of the week over Rainbow Six, and Call of Duty.
 
I don't really think this holds up anymore. It was a fair point during the 360 era, but I don't think I'm gonna get to the point where I look back at games from this gen and I'm like wow TLOU2 looks ugly now, or GoW 5 is hard to look at now. Eventually you get to the point where realistic games look so good they won't age poorly anymore even if new games look better those old games still look good.

Look at when Movie CGI still tries to render photorealistic actors.

Even with the best technology at the time, there are still minute details that give away that something is off or fake about them.

Videogames are obviously meant to be playable but any style that involved trying to be bleeding edge, is going to look bad because the next best thing is right around the corner.

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Look at when Movie CGI still tries to render photorealistic actors.

Even with the best technology at the time, there are still minute details that give away that something is off or fake about them.

Videogames are obviously meant to be playable but any style that involved trying to be bleeding age, is going to look bad because the next best thing is right around the corner.

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I don't really agree with that, like I said new games will look better but that doesn't mean those other games look bad now. Like when MGSV came out I didn't all of a sudden think MGS4 looked any worse, tbh I still think MGS4 holds up visually to this day and I don't see looking back at MGSV next gen and saying that game looks bad now. We've got to the point where realistic games will hold up down the road.
 
At the same time though, I'm not entirely convinced they were going for a completely realistic art style for this game. Even at modern resolutions, everything looks kind of like a moving painting with the colors and general blur. And in my opinion with the art style considered, Oblivion has aged better than many contemporary games. It all just "fits" in my opinion, but I understand if you feel that the presentation just looks bad, as all art is subjective after all.
I thought Oblivion looked ghastly when it released. I mean nothing (artistically) from Bethesda has held the test of time. They are known for their ugly games with deep lore and well written characters. (used to) This is the first time I've come across someone that thought it looked great. Or like a moving painting.
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Actually....hmm.
 
I think there is room for both realism and stylish designs, but admittedly I find stylish designs MUCH more interesting and imaginative. Western developers typically prefer realism which imho usually leads to basic, bland and generic designs while Asian developers generally like more stylish designs.

I don't mind realism at all, but I just wish some of these developers that aim for that particular aesthetic could come up with something better than T-shirt and jeans for their characters to name a few things.
 
So that's why it's hard getting into this:


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When I could be replaying this:


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Why would you ever touch Automato again knowing you spend a good 2/3 of the time playing as 9S? What the fuck where you thinking Taro?
 
I can tell you that....

This
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And even this
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Will age better than this...
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I wish Capcom would ease on the face scans with their games.
Don't really agree with this.

The bottom pic will age better and looks better.

It's realistic stylized, basically best of both design philosophies.
 
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