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[Felessan]

Putting shota aside...

It's just their style and view of life where moe culture spans even to the guys
nothing big, just a style aesthetics

 

[The Cockatrice]

If a JRPG does this, do we just say it's normal? Let's talk!

Japanese games get a pass because they're japanese. If a western game did this, gaf would have a meltdown. Recent example is the dweeb from Metaphor and his gay fannypack. That shit would get 0 pass if Bioware was behind the game. Most gamers are dumb, it is what it is.

 

[Three]

I chose the third costume in my playthrough of that scene in the game. You comb that Cloud spikey hair down it would give Tifa a run for her money with how feminine Cloud looks. Couldn't care less though, game was fun.

 

[poppabk]

I thought i did there also a picture in the op

I mean pictures of the male characters - not just random waifu's.

 

[llien]

it's a japan thing, you know who also looks like girls in their games? the girls

When I think about it, if boys look like girls, it means that girls look like boys, consequently.

 

[Black_Stride]

Cloud has bigger cakes than Aerith.

 

[MayauMiao]

If a JRPG does this, do we just say it's normal? Let's talk!

 

[Thief1987]

Eh? None of them look like girl, well, maybe beside the one on the first picture

 

[sono]

I'm okay with it

 

[ChoosableOne]

If you don't like it, it's fine, but Japan isn't the USA, they have different trends there and thats fine.

It’s super annoying. But it’s also been standard for Japanese media for a long time. It’s also because the characters are usually young.

We used to make fun of this shit all the time. I think it’s gone on for so long that people just stopped caring.

This has always been a thing.

It's a decades-old trend in Japan, not only for videogames, but the whole culture in general.

That’s true. Japan has feminine guys and the west has masculine girls.
Different trends and that is fine.

This was talked about non-stop 20 years ago. Sorry you missed the party.

You say "these things are normal in Japan", or "we used to argue about it a lot, but now we've gotten used to it". Perhaps American developers have noticed this and believe it's possible to normalize it as well, wanting to include people like that in their games because there are people like that in America? Both cultures feel distant to me in this regard, but maybe we just need to accept them as they are? Or if we are going to criticize, shouldn't we criticize both?

 

[DeepEnigma]

You say "these things are normal in Japan", or "we used to argue about it a lot, but now we've gotten used to it". Perhaps American developers have noticed this and believe it's possible to normalize it as well, wanting to include people like that in their games because there are people like that in America? Both cultures feel distant to me in this regard, but maybe we just need to accept them as they are? Or if we are going to criticize, should we criticize both?

It's a discussion forum, have at it all you like.

I merely made a declarative statement.

 

[killatopak]

If you’re also wondering how anime and manga got inspired, look at Rose of Versailles which is also inspired by Takarazuka Revue which is an all female theatre troupe. Which then makes male characters feminine by virtue of being played by women.

Spoiler

 

[Nickolaidas]

This is one of the top reasons western game fans dislike playing JRPGs. Where have you been?

 

[ReBurn]

I know I don't talk about them.

 

[Gaiff]

Cloud has bigger cakes than Aerith.

Cloud trains and has some muscled. Aerith is skinny and not particularly curvy. If he had a bigger ass than Tifa, then that’d be something else.

Barrett has more cake than all of them anyway.

 

[lughnasadh123]

That search to find out why it's fine to feminize men into lady boys but somehow an average looking woman is too manly to be in a video game:

 

[Black_Stride]

Eh? None of them look like girl, well, maybe beside the one on the first picture

I honestly thought SMTV had chose your gender cuz the first images I was likes "that's a chick" buit then i saw gameplay and was like "thats a dude"..........

 

[Varteras]

I honestly thought SMTV had chose your gender cuz the first images I was likes "that's a chick" buit then i saw gameplay and was like "thats a dude"..........

 

[DonkeyPunchJr]

You say "these things are normal in Japan", or "we used to argue about it a lot, but now we've gotten used to it". Perhaps American developers have noticed this and believe it's possible to normalize it as well, wanting to include people like that in their games because there are people like that in America? Both cultures feel distant to me in this regard, but maybe we just need to accept them as they are? Or if we are going to criticize, shouldn't we criticize both?

“B-b-but if you criticize Intergalactic for having a butt ugly woman who looks like a dude, you must be equally critical of Japanese games or else you’re a hypocrite!!!”

Shut the hell up dude. I should’ve known this thread was just retarded concern trolling.

BTW one big difference is Japanese devs aren’t a bunch of postmodernist activist types trying to lecture their audience and subvert gender roles.

 

[ikbalCO]

Weird Rant. Japan has a very western centric beauty standarts. What they are doing is potraying man of the west through a japanese perspective.

Also you forgot the femmest femme boy of them all: Miquella

With all due respect to the girls and women.

But he looks like a woman.

He would make such a great jesus in a B tier christian movie…

 

[laynelane]

None of those look like girls to me. The art style is different than what some may be used to, but the conclusion that they look like girls is very off.

 

[ChoosableOne]

This is one of the top reasons western game fans dislike playing JRPGs. Where have you been?

Is that so? I thought they weren't liked due to things like cringe and childish stories, endless random encounters, excessive grinding requirements, or sometimes being too easy, and taking too long to beat.

 

[Werewolf Jones]

More heterosexual than the average Western male in 2024.

 

[ReyBrujo]

If a JRPG does this, do we just say it's normal? Let's talk!

PS generation loved the androgynous look, so JRPG makers stuck with it.

 

[Nankatsu]

OP has a clear problem distinguishing between boys and girls.

I would not like to be in OP's shoes, just saying.

 

[Wolzard]

Normally these characters are for a female audience, which is a large proportion in Japan. It is something that derives from the Visual-key of the 90s.

 

[Nickolaidas]

Is that so? I thought they weren't liked due to things like cringe and childish stories, endless random encounters, excessive grinding requirements, or sometimes being too easy, and taking too long to beat.

Well, sure ... those too. XD But the character design being too 'effeminate' and 'gay' was always a reason to complain from the gamers who liked their Duke Nukems and Dooms and Conans.

 

[ReyBrujo]

My guy, look at Asian male idols.

There you go.

The male idol scene was pretty different when (say) FF7 was released: Johnny's had SMAP which were mostly elegant, not gayish. You got a few bordeline groups like TOKIO and V6, but then came KinKi Kids and then Arashi. It could be said that games actually shaped the way male idol groups appear, not the way around.

Normally these characters are for a female audience, which is a large proportion in Japan. It is something that derives from the Visual-key of the 90s.

Nah, Versailles is from 2007, by this time JRPG were already full of girl-looking protagonists. However groups like Malice Mizer were around back then, however they are so stylized that I doubt there's a relationship between, say, Cloud and Gackt during his visual kei years.

 

[ChoosableOne]

“B-b-but if you criticize Intergalactic for having a butt ugly woman who looks like a dude, you must be equally critical of Japanese games or else you’re a hypocrite!!!”

Shut the hell up dude. I should’ve known this thread was just retarded concern trolling.

BTW one big difference is Japanese devs aren’t a bunch of postmodernist activist types trying to lecture their audience and subvert gender roles.

As I said, both cultures are distant to me, but I don't understand those who criticize one side while normalizing the other.

Weird Rant. Japan has a very western centric beauty standarts. What they are doing is potraying man of the west through a japanese perspective.

Also you forgot the femmest femme boy of them all: Miquella

Great suggestion, I added it to the OP.

 

[XXL]

 

[Nickolaidas]

As I said, both cultures are distant to me, but I don't understand those who criticize one side while normalizing the other.

Great suggestion, I added it to the OP.

I think the reason most male gamers don't complain is that they do not objectify male characters in JRPGs. They sexualize the opposite sex, mainly. As long as the male character acts cool and stoic and protects those he cares about, a silly haircut isn't a deal breaker.

 

[killatopak]

The male idol scene was pretty different when (say) FF7 was released: Johnny's had SMAP which were mostly elegant, not gayish. You got a few bordeline groups like TOKIO and V6, but then came KinKi Kids and then Arashi. It could be said that games actually shaped the way male idol groups appear, not the way around.

Manga and Anime shaped the games then the idols is what I would argue. After all, Japanese art in games largely pulled from the anime aesthetic in the 80s and 90s.

 

[kevboard]

noone is talking about them? traps were at one point such a massive trend that shows like SAO even changed the design of their main character to chase it.

 

[Mister Wolf]

I think the reason most male gamers don't complain is that they do not objectify male characters in JRPGs. They sexualize the opposite sex, mainly. As long as the male character acts cool and stoic and protects those he cares about, a silly haircut isn't a deal breaker.

And it's wild that me you even have to explain this. Common sense.

 

[hinch7]

Nobody talks about it because there's no agenda pushed. Its just a cultural thing. Their artists design characters however the fuck they want (as it should be).

 

[existensmaximum]

Yeah, to me that's a much bigger turn-off than masculine looking muscular women. Can't stand it, super cringe.

 

[SJRB]

Look man, just be glad at least some characters look feminine.

 

[ReyBrujo]

Manga and Anime shaped the games then the idols is what I would argue. After all, Japanese art in games largely pulled from the anime aesthetic in the 80s and 90s.

Yes, that should be the correct answer. In truth, anime and manga were shaped by the average male Japanese which is why earlier you had so many lean protagonists (from Gundam, Macross, Speed Racer, Captain Harlock, etc, etc). One day someone (somewhere) realized they could just add style to male protagonists and sure, you got a girl-looking protagonist.

 

[TintoConCasera]

Different culture, different beauty standards.

 

[laynelane]

As I said, both cultures are distant to me, but I don't understand those who criticize one side while normalizing the other.

How is anyone "normalizing" art from Japan? It is what it is and has been that way for decades. Acceptance and even enjoyment of other culture's artwork and ideas is a good thing. Creating unappealing characters that do not resonate with your core audience, but do with the developer's ideology, is such a simplified way of conflating the two that I have to agree with DonkeyPunchJr - you must be trolling.

 

[Tajaz2426]

No difference, I call my two sons “gay boys” all the time for watching anime and little twink boys in the video game consoles.

Edit: They are grown men now and both have wives. However, I am about 96.3 percent sure that gayness is lurking just under the surface, somewhere. I blame their damn mother.

 

[Tomeru]

I hope the irony is not lost on all of you.....

 

[Js562]

Yeah I don't like it. It doesn't change for me Japanese games or American made. Different strokes for different folks I guess man. Especially for that game Metaphor . Great game but the main character looks like a female.

 

[ChoosableOne]

How is anyone "normalizing" art from Japan? It is what it is and has been that way for decades. Acceptance and even enjoyment of other culture's artwork and ideas is a good thing.

Someone will say that to you after 10 or more years later, changing Japan with Usa.

 

[SEGAvangelist]

If a JRPG does this, do we just say it's normal? Let's talk!

Update:
Another example suggested by ikbalCO added.

That last pic seems like she could be a real babe.

 

[killatopak]

Yes, that should be the correct answer. In truth, anime and manga were shaped by the average male Japanese which is why earlier you had so many lean protagonists (from Gundam, Macross, Speed Racer, Captain Harlock, etc, etc). One day someone (somewhere) realized they could just add style to male protagonists and sure, you got a girl-looking protagonist.

Much earlier than some of those actually. Rose of Versailles started this trend which was made in 1972. It is also the father of Shojou manga. The point here is that the main character is girl who was raised as a son and has a romance with another woman. The Japanese audience loved the feminine male look and spawned countless more after.

How do I know this? Well Berserk. Griffith was inspired by Oscar which was that girl raised as a guy.

 

[laynelane]

Someone will say that to you after 10 or more years later, changing Japan with Usa.

You have no idea what you're talking about, Nostradamus. Cultural norms aren't formed by a small number of extreme ideologists. Then again, you would know that if you were approaching this topic with any sort of sincerity.

 

[Kagoshima_Luke]

Asian men look more like women, in general.

I was working in Japan and was on a weekend trip with coworkers. One evening I was approached by a cute girl who wanted to talk, buy my coworker grabbed my shoulders and steered me away, halting any chance for conversation. As he guided me away, he let me know, "Don't talk. They are....um... how do yo say... gay." Then the lightbulb went on in my head.

 

[Gaiff]

Eh? None of them look like girl, well, maybe beside the one on the first picture

Always this one guy who pretends they're not deliberately girlish. Miquella doesn't look like a girl? Sure lmao.

 

[killatopak]

Always this one guy who pretends they're not deliberately girlish. Miquella doesn't look like a girl? Sure lmao.

Miquella was added in an edit.