North America Overtaken by Europe as the World’s Richest Region

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I'm glad that our friends across the pond are doing relatively well. We need to take advantage and make shit for them to buy...

Oh god dammit...
 
SomeDude said:
Do you think this is because of capitalism?
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No, people prefer to be ignorant than understanding what the terms really mean.
Those countries are definitely not "socialist" either in the real sense, they have more traits of capitalism than a socialism.
I feel that needs to be a balance, it's not really viable to be a full fledged socialist or capitalist country. I would argue though that the US fucked up the lower classes not due to capitalism , but corporatism and other crazy stuff.
 
fortified_concept said:
Bullshit. Scandinavian countries are socialist and Venezuela is socialist. And from what I've read Scandinavian countries have much better quality of life than USA while Venezuela's poor population's quality of life is starting to improve.
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Scandinavian countries aren't socialist. They enacted more socialist policies than we have, but the original wealth of almost all of those countries came from having a very capitalist economy before, that slowly took more leftist policies. Their economy is still very capitalistic. It's nowhere close to Venezuela.

And where is the info that Venezuela is improvng. The most prosperous Latin America countries are still places like Chile and the tax havens....which surprise, are easily the least socialistic country in Latin America.
 
SomeDude said:
Do you think this is because of capitalism?
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I think the countries I mentioned above have somewhat a preferable balance, between capitalism and the right government regulations and programs. Those countries are definitely not socialist
 
Scandinavian countries are NOT socialist. :lol They may have universal healthcare, free education, etc. but the economy is still strongly capitalistic.
 
i never thought i'd see the day
madred.gif
 
GCX said:
Scandinavian countries are NOT socialist. :lol They may have universal healthcare, free education, etc. but the economy is still strongly capitalistic.
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these countries are just of the opinion that healthcare and education are BASIC human rights
doesnt matter if you have no money at all you still have the right to get medical care and have the opportunity to study and get out of your mess

doesnt matter what label you wanna put on it they dont care

obviously those calling the shots in th US think you have to bankrupt yourself (healthcare) or put yourself into massive debt (student loans) for the same things

these 2 simple things (education/healthcare) give the euro countries a big quality of life boost
 
Kabouter said:
I have the feeling that people are getting a picture that's a bit too rosy on the state of the European economies.
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I got the perfect picture today of how rosy it is, when I went to a recruitment agency they told me to make an appointment for next week cause they are full today.

That shit would never have happened in 2007.
 
Kabouter said:
I have the feeling that people are getting a picture that's a bit too rosy on the state of the European economies.
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It's all just relatively speaking.

No country can claim that they're doing well these days.
 
Kabouter said:
I have the feeling that people are getting a picture that's a bit too rosy on the state of the European economies.
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perhaps, but aside from arguing socialist/capitalist ideologies this data shows that things are rosier in relation to north america than they were in the past. To those who also would rather a system that had more social programs in place, it certainly isn't hard to blame people for thinking things are better in some European countries.

I wish I could pack up and head over there tbh
 
Kosma said:
Why did America get hit harder then the EU by the crisis? What is Europe doing right, that the US is doing wrong?
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Simple. The USA was much more leveraged. We are the biggest debtor nation in the world.

In the supreme irony that US conservatives cannot see, "socialist" Europe is more fiscally conservative than the USA.
 
GCX said:
Scandinavian countries are NOT socialist. :lol They may have universal healthcare, free education, etc. but the economy is still strongly capitalistic.
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They are definitely socialist. But so is the USA. It is a matter of degree, not an either/or classification.
 
Kosma said:
I got the perfect picture today of how rosy it is, when I went to a recruitment agency they told me to make an appointment for next week cause they are full today.

That shit would never have happened in 2007.
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Precisely. And unemployment is set to double by next year, so you can imagine... :/
 
speculawyer said:
They are definitely socialist. But so is the USA. It is a matter of degree, not an either/or classification.
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As far as degrees goes, the meter is still in the green liberalism zone. As is the case with many other EU countries lacking the 'socialist' healthcare and education system.
 
canova said:
No country can claim that they're doing well these days.
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Actually I just read how Norway is basically unaffected by the economic crisis. They got all that oil money, unemployment rate below 4%, the state has no debt, etc.

It's pretty much the only country though.
 
JGS said:
How can a nation have a much better quality of life than in the US unless they are giving people money to live there?

I get that there are countries that are better, but US is not that bad of a place to be unless Scandanavia has no poor people to begin with.
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Yeah how can they? Try looking abroad and at the population as a whole, pal.

You can add The Netherlands to that list as well, btw.
 
GCX said:
Actually I just read how Norway is basically unaffected by the economic crisis. They got all that oil money, unemployment rate below 4%, the state has no debt, etc.

It's pretty much the only country though.
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I think they are affected as well. Slower GDP growth? smaller budget surplus, maybe?

remember how the price of oil was around $130 two years ago before the crisis?

Crisis hit --> demand for oil dried up --> oil price plunged to $50 before recovering to today price ~$70. So that must have affected Norway's bottom line
 
speculawyer said:
They are definitely socialist. But so is the USA. It is a matter of degree, not an either/or classification.
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You are definitely a pig. But so is everyone else. It is a matter of degree, not an either/or classification.
 
Regulations in europe mainly remains at the national level, but there are some countries in europe where a single "supervisor" watches over not just the banks, but also other financial institutions such as insurance and securities.
 
avatar299 said:
Scandinavian countries aren't socialist. They enacted more socialist policies than we have, but the original wealth of almost all of those countries came from having a very capitalist economy before, that slowly took more leftist policies. Their economy is still very capitalistic. It's nowhere close to Venezuela.

And where is the info that Venezuela is improvng. The most prosperous Latin America countries are still places like Chile and the tax havens....which surprise, are easily the least socialistic country in Latin America.
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oh come one, everyone knows all the money in scandinavia is comming from spending all the loot they stole during the Viking ages :D
 
canova said:
I think they are affected as well. Slower GDP growth? smaller budget surplus, maybe?

remember how the price of oil was around $130 two years ago before the crisis?

Crisis hit --> demand for oil dried up --> oil price plunged to $50 before recovering to today price ~$70. So that must have affected Norway's bottom line
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The economic crisis of course has an effect of some kind everywhere but in Norway it's minimal. You said no country can say they're doing well in the current economy, but I think Norway definitely can.

And Norway has a "Petroleum Fund" of about 400 billion dollars where the state puts the "extra" oil money and reserve it for the future when there's no more oil left. So they got that little extra reserve too if everything goes wrong.
 
Capitalism, I don't like that word. Let's talk about "free markets" - that is what is creating wealth, when combined with a healthy chunk of government regulation and universal healthcare/free education for everyone (you just have less to worry about as a citizen!).
 
No, they are captalist. Having socialistic programs doesn't mean shit. In those countries, u work and gain your property. The government takes their cut as that is the contract u have agreed to by living in that country.

A socialist economy doesn't work that way. Everything u gain is controlled by government policy ala the rationing that was countries like the USSR and is still in place in countries like Cuba and some sectors of Venezuela. You also have the government essentially controllng GDP becuase of the number and power of nationalized industry. While there is plenty of that in the western economies, Its still strongly driven by the private sector. The argument of a mixed economy is pretty much garbage, becuase despite the tons of regulations in America and abroad, the economy is a mostly private affair. It's not a matter of capatalism mixing with socialism as much as it is capatalism evolving or innovating over time to adapt.
 
Goya said:
I was under the impression that Europe was hit harder. I doubt this measuremen reflects the recession's impact accurately.
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They were. The difference is many European countries didn't bail out businesses at the same level that we did, they have a higher personal saving rate, and what they do save, gold and silver weren't hit as hard as stocks, which the majority of Americans are on.
 
avatar299 said:
They were. The difference is many European countries didn't bail out businesses at the same level that we did, they have a higher personal saving rate, and what they do save, gold and silver weren't hit as hard as stocks, which the majority of Americans are on.
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Though there's a big difference how hard the countries were hit, the developing economies got hit really hard.
 
There's too much incorrect 'common sense' jingoism here to dispel. Not to mention that the notion European economies have been 'less' affected is not true. Their supposedly more regulated banks didn't fare much better and in fact, the issue is less about regulation than it is about financial prudence, one of the cornerstones of finance which every business major learns. On that account, only the more conservative Canadian banks came out on top.

BBC has a nice guide on the bailouts on the anniversary of the Lehman collapse.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/in_depth/business/2007/creditcrunch/default.stm

bailout.gif


* Governments spent $10.8 trillion on the bail-out
* $3.6 trillion was spent in the US
* $2.4 trillion in the UK
* $3.2 trillion in other rich nations
* $1.6 trillion was spent by China and other emerging nations
* The US spent the equivalent of 25.8% of its GDP
* The UK spent the equivalent of 94.4% of its GDP
* The financial burden for each US citizen is $10,000
* In the UK the cost per person is $50,000 (£31,250)


Read story: Crisis 'cost us $10,000 each'


As one of the world's major financial centres, the UK has been one of the hardest hit by the financial chaos.

What effect have the bail-outs had on the public finances and how has it hit people's personal wealth?
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canova said:
what the hell u talking about? we're holding up our own bargain. Canada is one of the very few developed countries that escaped the crisis almost unscathed

Not one single bank failed here. Not one single taxpayer cent needed to help any bank. Foreclosure is almost unheard of here.

It's only because stupid U.S car makers that we got un-employment so high in southern Ontario.

Fuck U.S. I'm ready for Canada joining E.U. I want my E.U citizenship damnit!!!
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but we dont want you.
 
The United States are only to get poorer and poorer the next decade.
The dollar is losing it's value, and within a few years it won't be the worlds reserve currency anymore.
Of course Europe will get dragged along with the US, but they will be better off in the end.

The real wealth will shift to the east..
 
WingM@n said:
The United States are only to get poorer and poorer the next decade.
The dollar is losing it's value, and within a few years it won't be the worlds reserve currency anymore.
Of course Europe will get dragged along with the US, but they will be better off in the end.

The real wealth will shift to the east..
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With the exception of the 20th century (Due to mass wars etc) the majority of the wealth has always been in Eurasia. That's where most of the worlds population and natural resources are.
 
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