I love the ending. Those Harlem Globetrotters guys are great. And lol, Dennis looks so out of place most of the time.
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North Korea (DPRK) tourism |OT| - surreal, beautiful, friendly
- Thread starter Chittagong
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I love the ending. Those Harlem Globetrotters guys are great. And lol, Dennis looks so out of place most of the time.
I really couldn't bring myself to do it.
Sure, it is interesting, but this is a far cry from other governments and their own messed up stuff, this is another whole level.
Tourism is more than taking a pictures and being there, not being able to freely interact with the actual people there, go where you want or take the pictures you want makes it completely not worthy, I know for sure I will be getting the same exact experience as OP and any of the people who have been there, it's hollow. I would feel empty on my way home.
Sure, it is interesting, but this is a far cry from other governments and their own messed up stuff, this is another whole level.
Tourism is more than taking a pictures and being there, not being able to freely interact with the actual people there, go where you want or take the pictures you want makes it completely not worthy, I know for sure I will be getting the same exact experience as OP and any of the people who have been there, it's hollow. I would feel empty on my way home.
Roude Leiw
Member
Welcome to North Korea!
Sorry, but it is beyond bizarre to me anyone would willingly go there. It would be like wanting to visit the USSR during Stalin, or Cambodia under Pol Pot.
Sure, everything will "probably" be ok since you're there to give them money, but there are other places in the world to visit that aren't run by insane genocidal maniacs.
Sure, everything will "probably" be ok since you're there to give them money, but there are other places in the world to visit that aren't run by insane genocidal maniacs.
Angelus Errare
Banned
Great pictures but man the defending of N.Korea's regime/false equivalency with other countries that we live in and other things makes it hard to take it all seriously.
Then to top it off we have a few tinfoils trying to insinuate N.Korea isn't that bad, but rather it's our media that paints it that way.
Then to top it off we have a few tinfoils trying to insinuate N.Korea isn't that bad, but rather it's our media that paints it that way.
Chittagong
Gold Member
Someone who was in Pyongyang at the same time as I was got the permission to shoot and publish a video tour from his trip. This gives you a good chance to see what it feels like to be in Pyongyang
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D4hLctBvojE&feature=youtu.be
added to OP.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D4hLctBvojE&feature=youtu.be
added to OP.
Just seems so......dead.
I mean, nothing looks run down, there's some nice, grand architecture and it looks like the the landscaping has all been tended to and everything. But there's hardly anybody there. Very eerie.
There should be no surprises there. Pyongyang is North Korea's showcase city to try and prove to the world how good life there is. It is not representative of life outside the capital at all.
Chittagong
Gold Member
There's two reasons to why it looks so empty / quiet.
First, everyone goes to work at crack of dawn practically, so later in the morning most people would be at work and not walking along the street. The city can't afford to keep lights on after dusk so as soon as it's sunset people need to be back home.
Second, the fact that there are almost no cars or motorbikes on the street but everybody walks makes it seem even more empty. This is of course because there is no gas to run cars.
The other cities feel eqally quiet / deserted so it's not just a Pyongyang thing. See for example the picture in the OP of the rural city. Or the long road between cities. Same thing there.
I was responding to this:
I think you should also keep in mind that they would not have shown you a rural city that they felt was not up to standards.
US Intelligence agencies consider NK to be one of the toughest targets to gather intelligence on in the entire world. They would not continue to be this way by showing tourists their human rights violations.
You saw what they wanted you to see, not the real North Korea.
A guy got permission to film a trip through Pyongyang, using a Gopro on the car. It's 22 minutes long, and you get to see quite a lot. Apologies if it has already been posted.
Chittagong
Gold Member
Yeah seeing him screwing on his GoPro like it was no thing was definitely a bizarre moment. He had a really long barrel for his SLR too.
PjotrStroganov
Member
Wow. With the light traffic, clean streets, modern buildings, relatively modern cars and public transport it almost seems like the ideal city.
Guerrillas in the Mist
Member
I take it "old" Pyongyang must no longer exist, judging by the road layout etc?
Starwolf_UK
Member
You can tell traffic levels are really low as there are no traffic lights at all.
PjotrStroganov
Member
There are in places. But they are on the other side of the intersection.
I understand the attraction people have with North Korea. It is one of the last resorts on this planet where a western citizen can witness a controlled slave camp while enjoying various amenities. Over there you are not bombarded with commercials nor will people be rude to you, after all an act of infringement means death to the perpetrator.
They only need to add a few more services to really generate income for the regime. The leadership picks pretty young girls for themselves, I wonder if they use this for tourism related purposes? In Cambodia you can shoot cows with machine guns and RPG's (provided by deadbeat army officials who have nothing else to do with their time) and throw grenades at pigs. There is a lot of wildlife and untouched beauty in North Korea, similar activities would probably suffice.
ps. They are catching on though, summer camps for children are available with private beaches.
http://time.com/3057664/you-can-send-your-child-to-summer-camp-in-north-korea/
They only need to add a few more services to really generate income for the regime. The leadership picks pretty young girls for themselves, I wonder if they use this for tourism related purposes? In Cambodia you can shoot cows with machine guns and RPG's (provided by deadbeat army officials who have nothing else to do with their time) and throw grenades at pigs. There is a lot of wildlife and untouched beauty in North Korea, similar activities would probably suffice.
Auschwitz selfies are lame in comparison, you need to have that authentic experience
ps. They are catching on though, summer camps for children are available with private beaches.
http://time.com/3057664/you-can-send-your-child-to-summer-camp-in-north-korea/
Porcile
Member
Here's a secret video of drive through Chongjin: one of the poorest cities in North Korea and one of the hardest hit by the 1990s famine. It's a sharp contrast to that government approved Pyongyang one. I suppose if you want to see something like the real North Korea who have to dig around for these secretly filmed videos. There's a fair few of them floating around such as of the famous train station which is described in Nothing to Envy.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9WVQ9niQhXk
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9WVQ9niQhXk
BBC said:
US tourists detained in North Korea
Yeah, don't go to North Korea. They might just decide to not let you leave.
Chittagong
Gold Member
I believe there isn't substantial danger currently unless you do something outrageously stupid. It's well documented that religion is not allowed, and being thought to promote it gains likely a similar outcome as leaving bibles in a sharia country. Tearing up your visa and claiming refuge will get you locked up elsewhere too. Not for as long or in as bad a prison, but it's not like it'd be a common tourist mistake.
The main point of this thread, in retrospect, is to say that despite the horrible regime, despite the self inflicted hardships, and despite their outdated values and beliefs, the entire population is not the pure evil we have been led to believe. Many are friendly, smart, beautiful, skilled, whatever the trait... good people like in any country.
There's nothing really secret in that video though, it's still better than most of the country. As we drove through the country we saw areas much poorer, people living in very basic houses. We would have been able to take pics/video but didn't take too many out of courtesy.
The main point of this thread, in retrospect, is to say that despite the horrible regime, despite the self inflicted hardships, and despite their outdated values and beliefs, the entire population is not the pure evil we have been led to believe. Many are friendly, smart, beautiful, skilled, whatever the trait... good people like in any country.
There's nothing really secret in that video though, it's still better than most of the country. As we drove through the country we saw areas much poorer, people living in very basic houses. We would have been able to take pics/video but didn't take too many out of courtesy.
jimbobsmells
Member
Really interesting thank you OP. I hate the organized tour holidays but I think it would be worth it to experience something like this.
Yeah gotta make sure you see that brutal dictatorship before they go out of style. What good is life if we don't even get to see a new born being taken from its mothers arms and having its head stomped in because the family dares not to worship the Dear Leader?
I heard people were doing the same in 1945 in Germany too. Gotta visit those death camps before they just become empty tourist attractions!
Chittagong
Gold Member
Local people don't have tattoos, but I haven't heard of regulations for tourists. It's the same in South Korea, where tattoos are frowned upon although not entirely illegal. I would probably cover them up just in case when visiting the most tense sites such as the great statue.
PjotrStroganov
Member
Loads of people went to the DDR though.
What are you even talking about? Nobody's led you to believe that. Average North Koreans are typically portrayed as victims of the regime. There is no demonization of the average North Korean. You just made that up.
Anyway, it sounds like you had a good trip. But after reading what Shin Dong-hyuk had to say about tourism to North Korea, I'll have to pass.
vas_a_morir
Banned
Yeah... that part made me question the authenticity of the entire OP. lol
How much is the trip costing you?
vas_a_morir
Banned
Wow, that was pretty impressive. Very clean, beautiful, with interesting architecture. It's like hardly anybody lives there. A bit soulless, but still interesting such a place exists. .
Chittagong
Gold Member
You'd be amazed how many people are genuinely surprised when we tell them that everyone we met (or saw on the tube) were really friendly and polite. Somehow people get these things mixed up in their head.
Everyone should read really carefully what ex North Koreans say about travel there, your view that it's better to pass is entirely valid.
I have had the urge to remove the point from the OP since it does keep derailing the thread... It seems people read the word 'beautiful' in a perv and predatory way, which is not how i meant it, it was meant to be a simple compliment. In a similar way I find Swedish girls the most beautiful in Scandinavia. Doesn't mean i would ever want to engage in any deeper interaction with either. I'm probably digging myself even deeper to the hole here...
vas_a_morir
Banned
It's not a point of concern. I was just joking around for a quick laugh. I've never seen North Korean women not dressed up like intimidating 1950's Russian military, so I have no perspective on it anyway. I'm sure there are strikingly beautiful women there.
So please, don't feel bullied out of expressing how you feel. That was certainly not my intent. And thanks for your contributions!BTW, anybody seen this? It's definitely got a different tone there than the Vice documentary... but then again, the Vice Documentary was filmed at a time when it was mindblowing to think of a foreigner coming in with cameras into North Korea. Things have certainly changed.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LovkrOC2lpk
(Edit: I'm insane/stupid for thinking I'd be the first to post this in this thread. lol)
vas_a_morir
Banned
Ugh, that Korean War museum is absolutely insane. It's this fantasy Revolutionary Independence War fought solely by DPRK troops against US troops occupying North Korea. There is no way they tell their people the truth about how the war began and the identities of the primary belligerents.
I mean, here they are... talking trash about the US troops to Canadians as if Canada didn't send a proportionately huge force to Korea. You can bet you'll never see a mural depicting DPRK troops standing over Korean bodies in South Korea.
I mean, here they are... talking trash about the US troops to Canadians as if Canada didn't send a proportionately huge force to Korea. You can bet you'll never see a mural depicting DPRK troops standing over Korean bodies in South Korea.
Shin Dong-hyuk is more than just an "ex-North Korean".
Porcile
Member
I don't want to keep having a go at the OP, but everytime he writes something, there's always something in there which sounds blindingly ignorant and naive.
Chittagong
Gold Member
What he has done is remarkable and unprecedented. I don't use the word ex-North Korean dismissively, as anyone who is an 'ex-North Korean' has defected, carrying a life sentence of living with the guilt of being responsible for the grim consequences to anyone they ever interacted with.
I am well aware that by posting a thread like this I invite a lot of scrutiny to what I post, and that's absolutely fine - it ensures there is a standard in the discussion.
Gonna have to agree with this one. All they have to do is throw a bible someplace and blame it on you? Hard labor camp goooo!
Slayer-33
Liverpool-2
NO trash on the streets AT ALL. AT ALL
Most people walking/biking. No fast food restaurants. No OBESE people spotted. I think my soul was cleansed from all the years of "ad" bombardment on NYC sidewalks.
One can say pretty boring place but man are they ever achieving what they set out to do.
Porcile
Member
I think, whats riling people up is your, entirely unintentional I'm sure, blasé and slightly dismissive attitude to the issues people are taking with your documentation of the trip. It's too late now in some ways, but I think you should take some time do some serious reading about North Korea; it's history, it's people and it's current state, and then make a conscious and well informed choice to never return while it's in the state it is now.
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