An episode? The entire build for this match will take place next season on NXT.
That's right, WWE will build the match after it happens.
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November Wrasslin' |OT| Survival Season Without The G
- Thread starter tm24
- Start date
An episode? The entire build for this match will take place next season on NXT.
That's right, WWE will build the match after it happens.
D
Deleted member 47027
Unconfirmed Member
Just listened to the LAW talk about this show. I can't believe so many of you haven't jumped ship for NJPW's shores.
Also, Mastiff would benefit for 3 months of cutting weight, he's got the muscle, it's just glazed over in tubb.
Also, Mastiff would benefit for 3 months of cutting weight, he's got the muscle, it's just glazed over in tubb.
Could've sworn we read reports on they being down on Ryback after his feud with Cena. After that, he did get his first PPV win over Jericho, then basically fizzled out until he got with Heyman -- where he, again, lost to a top face. Their first mistake was turning him heel. Fans were behind him and had a catch phrase the crowd liked. But, y'know, Cena.
This set could be good, why can't WWE do rivalry discs like this?
ROH VS SCUM
From the day Kevin Steen, Jimmy Jacobs, and Steve Corino cemented their alliance over the fallen body of Davey Richards those were their goals and Ring of Honor their unfortunate victim. No soul on the ROH roster was safe from the wrath of those three men and with the ROH World Title in their possession, the battle was on to save the soul of ROH from those poised to bring it down.
This is the story of how Ring of Honor's battle raged against S.C.U.M while men like Jay Lethal, Eddie Edwards, El Generico, BJ Whitmer, and Mark Briscoe fell victim to the onslaught. This is the tale of how the S.C.U.M threat grew along with their numbers as the future of Ring of Honor hung in the balance. Alliances shifted, championships were won and lost, and it ultimately came to a head inside Steel Cage Warfare!
Now, for the first time, the war between ROH and S.C.U.M has been captured in this 3-Disc DVD set! This collection features many never before released matches and moments from ‘Ring of Honor Wrestling’ TV like Nigel McGuinness' rallying cry following the ‘11th Anniversary Event’, Kevin Steen's excommunication from S.C.U.M, his TV battle with Adam Cole, Inside S.C.U.M, and the battles in Baltimore that brought the war to its end!
It was a year of terror, a year of insanity, a year of ROH vs. S.C.U.M!
Kevin Steen vs. Davey Richards (ROH World Title Match)…Best in the World 2012…6/24/12
Kevin Steen, Jimmy Jacobs & Steve Corino vs. Jay Lethal & The All Night Express ROH TV…8/11/12
Steve Corino vs. Jay Briscoe (Street Fight)…ROH TV…12/15/12
Kevin Steen vs. Jay Lethal (ROH World Title Match)…11th Anniversary…3/2/13
Steve Corino, Matt Hardy & Rhino vs. Jay Lethal, BJ Whitmer & Michael Elgin ROH TV…3/30/13
Jimmy Jacobs & Cliff Compton vs. Michael Elgin & Jay Lethal Border Wars 2013…5/4/13
Jimmy Jacobs & Rhett Titus vs. Michael Elgin & BJ Whitmer (Texas Tornado Match)…Honor In The Heart Of Texas…6/1/13
Matt Hardy vs. Kevin Steen Best in the World 2013…6/22/13
Jay Briscoe vs. Matt Hardy (ROH World Title Match)…ROH TV…7/20/13
ROH vs. S.C.U.M. (Steel Cage Warfare)…ROH TV…7/27/13
ROH VS SCUM
From the day Kevin Steen, Jimmy Jacobs, and Steve Corino cemented their alliance over the fallen body of Davey Richards those were their goals and Ring of Honor their unfortunate victim. No soul on the ROH roster was safe from the wrath of those three men and with the ROH World Title in their possession, the battle was on to save the soul of ROH from those poised to bring it down.
This is the story of how Ring of Honor's battle raged against S.C.U.M while men like Jay Lethal, Eddie Edwards, El Generico, BJ Whitmer, and Mark Briscoe fell victim to the onslaught. This is the tale of how the S.C.U.M threat grew along with their numbers as the future of Ring of Honor hung in the balance. Alliances shifted, championships were won and lost, and it ultimately came to a head inside Steel Cage Warfare!
Now, for the first time, the war between ROH and S.C.U.M has been captured in this 3-Disc DVD set! This collection features many never before released matches and moments from ‘Ring of Honor Wrestling’ TV like Nigel McGuinness' rallying cry following the ‘11th Anniversary Event’, Kevin Steen's excommunication from S.C.U.M, his TV battle with Adam Cole, Inside S.C.U.M, and the battles in Baltimore that brought the war to its end!
It was a year of terror, a year of insanity, a year of ROH vs. S.C.U.M!
Kevin Steen vs. Davey Richards (ROH World Title Match)…Best in the World 2012…6/24/12
Kevin Steen, Jimmy Jacobs & Steve Corino vs. Jay Lethal & The All Night Express ROH TV…8/11/12
Steve Corino vs. Jay Briscoe (Street Fight)…ROH TV…12/15/12
Kevin Steen vs. Jay Lethal (ROH World Title Match)…11th Anniversary…3/2/13
Steve Corino, Matt Hardy & Rhino vs. Jay Lethal, BJ Whitmer & Michael Elgin ROH TV…3/30/13
Jimmy Jacobs & Cliff Compton vs. Michael Elgin & Jay Lethal Border Wars 2013…5/4/13
Jimmy Jacobs & Rhett Titus vs. Michael Elgin & BJ Whitmer (Texas Tornado Match)…Honor In The Heart Of Texas…6/1/13
Matt Hardy vs. Kevin Steen Best in the World 2013…6/22/13
Jay Briscoe vs. Matt Hardy (ROH World Title Match)…ROH TV…7/20/13
ROH vs. S.C.U.M. (Steel Cage Warfare)…ROH TV…7/27/13
TheWarrior
Banned
He was really over with the crowd as a face and could have been the next Ultimate Warrior. The simpleton fans loved the Feed Me More chant.
Because they're not on Total Divas and you're supposed to believe that they hate those divas that are on the show.
slightconfuse
Banned
TheWarrior
Banned
Seems like it should be the other way around. Divas on the show should be angry at the lucky ones who don't have to be on it.
Divas crave the spotlight, that's what makes them divas.
British Monsoon
Member
If Total Divas ends up being an overall success for the company, do you think WWE would ever do a male wrestler counterpart version of the show? I think that'd be pretty funny. The top prize in the WWE would no longer be the belt, but rather it'd be getting on the next season of the 'reality' TV show so your storylines take precedence over mere WWE storylines.
As good as New Japan is, it's a vastly different product and just can't compete with all the free weekly TV content WWE puts out. The entry fee is always going to be the main stumbling block, even before you consider the differences in presentation and wrestling styles, the language barrier, time-zone differences, etc.
As good as New Japan is, it's a vastly different product and just can't compete with all the free weekly TV content WWE puts out. The entry fee is always going to be the main stumbling block, even before you consider the differences in presentation and wrestling styles, the language barrier, time-zone differences, etc.
Actually you're supposed to believe they're "jealous of them" as commentary will endlessly remind you of. AJ desperately wants to be on Total Divas you see, being a diva is not about wanting to be a wrestler, it's about being on a scripted reality show, that's the be-all-end-all of female wrestling.
But actually, they do touch on that in the wwe.com article, once again proving wwe.com is better at storylines than WWE TV:
Who knows, maybe they'll do some stuff with AJ and the other girls on Smackdown or in the match. Remember, after AJ did her promo they teamed her with most of the girls already and they all had a falling out and left her a few weeks later.
But seriously, WWE TV sets up this match by not reminding us of AJ's promo and doing a stupid musical chairs segment and wwe.com blows it away by writing an article:
Good job Creative Team, I can see why they pay you the big bucks.
D
Deleted member 47027
Unconfirmed Member
I just don't see how people aren't fed up and outta there. I LITERALLY am watching old Clash of the Champions when Raw is on, that's how little I want to watch Raw.
This is true, but if there was a way to watch New Japan, in English and with proper storylines, I'm sure they'd find their niche where they can be quite profitable.
However, it's hard to invest much in New Japan as it is. It's great, but it doesn't have an emotional hook due to not being able to follow and build any storylines outside of match psychology and that's a shame imo.
D
Deleted member 47027
Unconfirmed Member
Emotional hooks outside of matches is something WWE fails to do. Where was the big build on Big E getting the IC title? Fuckin afterthought. Glad he has it, but boy, right before a PPV with no fanfare.
Emotional hook of what else? Fucking nothing. WWE is bad at this, AND they don't give their wrestlers much time in the ring to work proper psychology to tell a story, even there.
100% agreed, and the fact that nobody else is jumping in that big gaping hole WWE is leaving is a crying shame.
D
Deleted member 47027
Unconfirmed Member
Yes, absolutely.
You would think, with as much programming time they DO have, that they could afford to spend some time doing shit right. Goddammit! I also realize Raw is the flagship show and the others are more extracurricular (sadly) but god damn.
Three hours is plenty of time to work with the roster they have. Yet there's still people not being utilized properly. No builds. No nothing.
I'm watching an old episode of Wrestling Challenge and while it's an hour and has maybe 4 matches on it, most of them squashes, they spend all sorts of time during the show using promos or vignettes and building to the next PPV.
I feel the commentary team is also at fault for not driving things home like they should. Compare and contrast the current team with Bobby Heenan / Gorilla Monsoon - they would sell the fucking product. Now you get awkward silences and chuckles.
Language barriers in wrestling really isn't that important. Especially Japanese wrestling that has never been that storyline heavy.
British Monsoon
Member
For me, the last time WWE succeeded with an emotional hook was CM Punk leaving with the title back in 2011. And a lot of that was based on the fact that I'd followed his career for so long, rather than anything WWE creative did.
I'm guessing most people just watch out of habit.
You'll get no arguments from me there, but it does seem to be the no.1 reason given by non-fans as to why they won't watch New Japan.
I'm guessing most people just watch out of habit.
You'll get no arguments from me there, but it does seem to be the no.1 reason given by non-fans as to why they won't watch New Japan.
D
Deleted member 47027
Unconfirmed Member
I know how I sound "Well he's watching the old shit, times have changed" but here's something that HAS changed. I was being sold on a pay-per-view. I'm being sold on NOTHING when I watch WWE. I'm being told to wait. And wait. And wait. No stakes. No fucks given. Even the talent doesn't feel it. They're working as best they can in a shitty box.
IT'S ALL YOUR FAULT, HAITCH!!!!!!!!
IT'S ALL YOUR FAULT, HAITCH!!!!!!!!
And yet, they fucked that up by not doing anything with him after he left, bringing him back too soon and then they finished burying it by forcing Triple H and Kevin Nash into the angle.
It's all in how their Creative is run. I'm sure the actual writers could benefit from having more experience with wrestling instead of using writers from soap opera's, but that's not the big problem.
The big problem is the way they have to write. They all quit in a year because Vince constantly changes scripts at the last minute, they have to write shows on Monday up to and sometimes after Raw starts and even then Vince will constantly change his mind and do things differently.
The head of their division is the Boss's daughter, so there's no hierarchy there to protect them from Vince's outburst and whims either, because nobody is going to tell Vince to cool down and if he wants to change storylines, he can wait a week to the next Raw.
Nope, writers do scripts based upon good storylines, Vince gets script, Vince fucks up the scripts to the point the storylines stop making sense and the writers spend the rest of the time trying to adapt the script to whatever Vince wants.
At least, that's as much as I could gather about the process from interviews with former writers.
The big problem is the way they have to write. They all quit in a year because Vince constantly changes scripts at the last minute, they have to write shows on Monday up to and sometimes after Raw starts and even then Vince will constantly change his mind and do things differently.
The head of their division is the Boss's daughter, so there's no hierarchy there to protect them from Vince's outburst and whims either, because nobody is going to tell Vince to cool down and if he wants to change storylines, he can wait a week to the next Raw.
Nope, writers do scripts based upon good storylines, Vince gets script, Vince fucks up the scripts to the point the storylines stop making sense and the writers spend the rest of the time trying to adapt the script to whatever Vince wants.
At least, that's as much as I could gather about the process from interviews with former writers.
D
Deleted member 47027
Unconfirmed Member
Stop blaming Vince, this is all Triple H.
I'm sure both of them get some of the blame and I'm more than happy to place blame on either of them, but as far as I know, Vince is still the guy in charge of Raw's scripts.
Yeah, I really have a gut feeling that The Authority angle is Triple H reliving the glory days of the McMahon Helmsley Era.
This is what I miss. It was condensed and didn't need to give away the PPV matches to make you excited for the PPV. I get that approach when Nitro was a thing, but nowadays, sheesh. Everyone could look like a million bucks if they did jobber matches.
No one else in the company has the final say, other than Vince. He signs off on everything, and usually just changes it anyway, making you wonder why he even has a Creative team.
Aside from last week (for obvious reasons), I think every single Raw since SummerSlam has started with a Triple H promo.
And they've all been shit! EVERY! SINGLE! ONE!
Stephanie has been okayish I suppose, because being a condescending bitch seems to come natural to her McMahon genes, but since most of them are just Triple H doing his shtick that's not making it much better.
D
Deleted member 47027
Unconfirmed Member
Another thing I've noticed about watching old Wrestling Challenge is that they are VERY promo heavy, a lot of pretaped promos. I get that not everyone has a lot to say these days but it should still be happening a lot more on Raw.
I have to kind of remind myself on Monday nights that its alright to do something else. After the Sandow cash-in, I told myself I wasn't going to watch again until Survivor Series. By reading the summary from last night, I think I might be waiting until the RR.
Part of it, too, is that they actually treat the majority of the roster as people that actually have a chance in their matches. Its harder to jump in to a product when they aren't clearly defining "these are the people you should care about" and "these people aren't worth shit". Thats not a complaint, just one of the main differences I see between the two.
El Pescado
Member
I mean, I could play Super Mario 3D World on my Wii U gamepad, Tearaway on my Vita, or Link Between Worlds on my 3DS on Friday while watching Smackdown*. "Next Gen" is here, but there is no compelling software for me anywhere at this time.
*I haven't watched Smackdown in months... :/
I miss the ones where they were green screened in front of their logos, but also the ones that were just cut in, down in the corner during a match. It was an effective use of airtime, then it could even be a swerve if the guy made a comment, but then came out at the end and did a run-in or something.
I'm telling you, if Goldust could get stutters from electricity, my "Vince gets concussed and thinks it's 1985" idea isn't too out there to happen.
D
Deleted member 47027
Unconfirmed Member
Only about 15% of the roster is allowed to have characters, and even then, whenever they enter the top spot, that is jettisoned for a generic Cena-lite gimmick.
Meanwhile down on NXT, anyone who isn't just enhancement talent has a character and gimmick. Except the Ascension, they have, like, a gimmick entrance, but no actual gimmick.
D
Deleted member 47027
Unconfirmed Member
Heenan with the Bush burn
I don't watch RAW weekly, but if I get news about a bright spot, I'll check that part out. There are new guys I'm really interested in seeing grow and become stars. My biggest complaint about WWE when I started watching again in 2011 was their inability to produce new stars. In 2 years they built 2 guys who were already known to be ridiculously talented, and in both cases, fucked up the build.
With guys like the Shield, Harper and Bray, Cesaro, and Sami Zayn waiting in the wings, I feel like we're witnessing the birth of the next generation of WWE wrestlers and for whatever I'm invested in their potential success. So I watch for them. I watched RAW when I heard there was a Shield/Wyatt Family standoff. When I thought they were going to team at Survivor Series, I was thinking about ordering it. While I'm interested in Punk and Bryan vs the Wyatts, it's not enough to get me to spend the money. I know following the product closely will lead to boredom or disappointment. But following at arm's length just to check on the progress of guys like Roman Reigns has allowed me to enjoy WWE in a different way.
With guys like the Shield, Harper and Bray, Cesaro, and Sami Zayn waiting in the wings, I feel like we're witnessing the birth of the next generation of WWE wrestlers and for whatever I'm invested in their potential success. So I watch for them. I watched RAW when I heard there was a Shield/Wyatt Family standoff. When I thought they were going to team at Survivor Series, I was thinking about ordering it. While I'm interested in Punk and Bryan vs the Wyatts, it's not enough to get me to spend the money. I know following the product closely will lead to boredom or disappointment. But following at arm's length just to check on the progress of guys like Roman Reigns has allowed me to enjoy WWE in a different way.
FallingEdge
Member
Been listening to Devitt's theme on repeat.
SO GOOD.
SO GOOD.
D
Deleted member 47027
Unconfirmed Member
Honestly I think WWE needs more enhancement talent. We consistently see people lose when they shouldn't - give us legit jobbers. Good enhancement talent will make whoever they face look like a beast. You can build people with these.
Perspicacity
Banned
CM Punk is really bad at multi-man tag team wrestling, which is strange because the rest of the roster is pretty great at it. I think it's because his transitions and general character work are his highlights, while his 5 MOD/hot tag sequence is half the speed of Bryan's and almost as tired as Cena's.
NXT has started doing that to an extent. Usually they use one of their guys who hasn't gotten a gimmick yet as a jobber, but recently they've had a few squash matches were the jobber was just a local wrestler getting a tryout. Protect your roster, give a tryout and get a jobber to squash all at once.
That bulldog/DDT combo on Rollins and Ambrose was sweet, though.
8 matches last night.
As for raw I just find 2012-2013 much better than 2010-2011 WWE raw.
Back then CM Punk was low on the card and was destroyed for the title by the Undertaker for not wearing a suit. Daniel Bryan back then was basically buried. He was involved in a storyline where the Bellas thought he was a Virgin with Michael Cole calling him a nerd everyweek.
The creative needs to get its stuff together but it seems they have much better new talent than they did in the past.
Perspicacity
Banned
True. I think my favourite thing about the Shield is that despite being around for a year now all of their potential singles matchups feel extremely fresh because they get a chance to look great in parts of all of their big tag things. This is sort of happening to Cody Rhodes as well, he's looking amazing again these days after sort of floundering for years since his IC run.
Also - Woooo!Tang Clan ain't nothin' to fuck with:
British Monsoon
Member
I think somewhere between the days of endless random jobbers and today's environment where former and current under-card champions regularly lose to main eventers makes for a happy medium. Again, this is something that New Japan does pretty well - guys like Honma, YOSHI, Jado, etc, regularly take the fall when they're in tag matches and very rarely get a win themselves, yet when called upon to put someone over in a singles match (like Honma was against Shibata at the last PPV) the crowd don't end up treating them like a total jobber. When Captain New Japan making a comeback or striving for a hot-tag gets more reaction than a single thing a WWE jobber like Yoshi Tatsu does in the ring, then there's a problem with characterisation. Like you were saying earlier, they've got three hours each week to define the characters on their roster, yet fail to push along more than a handful of threads at the same time.
Also, speaking of Honma vs Shibata, wasn't that just a damn fun match? Probably my 3rd favourite from the PPV;
Tomoaki Honma vs Katsuyori Shibata - (NJPW 11/09/13)
slightconfuse
Banned
Listing to review a raw.
There are 14 divas on the roster. Jesus
Why did they have ruback shell shock big show on Raw Nashville only to lose
There are 14 divas on the roster. Jesus
Why did they have ruback shell shock big show on Raw Nashville only to lose
spindashing
Banned
Well they did that right after Axel lost the belt. I'm assuming those two segments were meant to bury the former Heyman guys. I mean, Axel lost the only thing that made him look important, and Ryback's finisher was destroyed. They pretty much killed the things that made those two guys special on the roster. Axel is just another mid-card jobber without the gold, and Ryback is just another mid-card big man if his finish doesn't work or isn't impressive anymore.