Now that the honeymoon is over, how does Super Mario Wonder really rank?

Spukc said:
Best 2d mario yoshi's island
2= 100% completion mario world
3 Mario wonder
4 Super mario bros deluxe gbc remake
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Yoshi's Island is God tier

But holy shit you put the remake of 1 above Mario 3 lol. Two copies of this game died on me and I always wondered if they packed too much inside the game, like it was a special mutant GBC cart with parts inside that would go bad. It set the stage super high for Mario Advance and I was like "that's it? 2 with fat shy guys?" Actually the very first stage of disillusionment with Nintendo.
 
jshackles said:
Game design has moved on from that - the value now comes from the experience, rather than "the game takes a long time to beat because we made the platforming and enemy placement so tricky that you'll have to replay these levels 100 times therefore artificially increasing the play time to justify the games price point" school of thought from yesteryear.
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This so fucking much.
 
The presentation and art style is AMAZING! Best looking Mario game ever. I thinks we can all agree to that.

Wonder effects were great, but the novelty run out after the first time you try each one. At least it made evident that people at Nintendo are very creative so there is hope for something new with great ideas.

However there were many things that disappoint:
- Music is great but many repeated songs and melodies.
- One boss in the entire game. I don't care if it had different styles, it's still the same
- Wonder effects could be literally anything, but while there were some great ones, some of them were weak for what they could be.
- Wonder effects should've been used in more creative ways for bosses (if there wasn't one repeated boss). They did a good job with Bowser though.
- 12 characters!* * 3 toads, 4 yoshis. I mean, I like Toads, but to hell with them! Where's Wario, Waluigi, new ones! Also, easy mode for Yoshi? It should've been just Nabbit (or an option in settings for every character).
- They give out too many Wonder Seeds. The same issue with Mario Odyssey. What's the point of having 999 of them, if half of them will be bought or just pass by them without any effort whatsoever. Instead, have 100 or 200 but make people actually look for them in creative ways.
- The game still feels like a spiritual *New* series with a different art style in concept (map, coins, etc). They should make something really new, not used before.

Whatever happens to Mario 2D or 3D, this level of detail in art style and animations should be mandatory for every Mario game moving forward.
 
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I thought it was fun. I prefer the 3Ds way more, they are more creative and the gameplay is much more interesting.

The Wonder seeds really felt like a gimmick and not really something that substantial.
 
Wonder was a very solid game, and shines especially in multiplayer. If you want to have a great party game with people who are not a hardcore gamer, this game is it.

Some part of the game later on was also very challenging, so it could be great for skilled gamers too. I gave it 8/10 overall.
 
I gotta say I rather enjoyed Mario Wonder once I finally gave it a more serious attempt. I recently had lower back surgery, so i didn't really have a lot of things to occupy my time. I'm currently stuck on the very last level, the very last section. The stupid invisibility badge is a joke. It's not a skill, just random luck getting anywhere. That being said, there were just enough secrets and surprises in the game to keep me engaged. I wouldn't go as far as putting it at the top of a list of favorite mario games though. Super Mario World and Mario 64 are essentially my two favorites. Everything after is just okay. I would, however, go as far as saying that I liked Mario Wonder better than Odyssey. I don't know, something about Odyssey got really repetitive halfway through the game and I lost motivation and interest. I finished it but will never go back and get all the moons.

West Texas CEO said:
Overall, the best Mario since 64.

This game made me a Nintendo believer once again.
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I might actually agree with you here. I never liked the Galaxy games as much as others, which many people think are some of the best. I did enjoy 3D World but Wonder is better in my opinion.
 
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It's a hard question to answer, because you would expect the 400th iteration in a series to be polished in a way that the early entries weren't, but that doesn't mean it has the same impact.

If Super Mario Wonder was the first 2D Mario game you ever played, you would probably think it was one of the very best. But that doesn't mean it has the impact that SMB3 did or that it feels like a huge leap forward for the series.

Also stop using SMW as your reference that game was mid even in the context of its time. Hyped up next gen sequel that was somehow worse than the last NES game.
 
SF Kosmo said:
Also stop using SMW as your reference that game was mid even in the context of its time. Hyped up next gen sequel that was somehow worse than the last NES game.
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wtf.... I had to take away my like for this!

I didn't know anyone felt this way. The brilliance of this game I thought was beyond reproach. Interesting.

SMW is every bit as good as 3... just in a different way. It's a more polished and interesting game world and a bigger evolution of the series, as opposed to SM3 which, while admittedly brilliant, is much more of an iteration.
 
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SF Kosmo said:
Also stop using SMW as your reference that game was mid even in the context of its time. Hyped up next gen sequel that was somehow worse than the last NES game.
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3 is the quintessential Mario experience. Tons of iconic power-ups, inventory screen, world maps, world 8 throwing tons of tanks and bullets at you. The challenging levels that make you carefully consider what items you use and want to grab all the extra lives/coins you can instead of just waltzing through and waiting for save to lock in your progress. This is Mario that friends would take turns playing and hung on every jump on the screen like some epic trial because your performance mattered.

In 3, you might take a risk to fight an enemy on the map to get the item drop to use later -cause later on the game is gonna destroy you and you want supplies. You really didn't want to screw up and get hurt, or even worse die, making you feel dumb about the trade. That's what made your hands sweaty, and made it fun to play, and watch. It's not about "but muh difficulty", it's the fun dynamic created when your jumps truly matter. If you fall in a pit and go "oh no!" with your kid in Wonder, you're just playing along and being silly. If you fall in 3 it's OH SHIT OH FUCK and that's more fun lol.
 
Dogshit compared to the NSMB games as far as gameplay goes. Losing the interactivity between players just makes the game so much worse than all the other improvements.
 
Not as good as the NSMB séries.

Uninspired music and overworld characters, ridiculously repetitive bosses.

And where the hell did they get that elephant transformation Idea from? I mean, isn't Mario power ups supposed to be costumes?
 
EruditeHobo said:
wtf.... I had to take away my like for this!

I didn't know anyone felt this way. The brilliance of this game I thought was beyond reproach. Interesting.

SMW is every bit as good as 3... just in a different way. It's a more polished and interesting game world and a bigger evolution of the series, as opposed to SM3 which, while admittedly brilliant, is much more of an iteration.
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It's baffling to me that polish is the first adjective you would reach for. The game was famously rushed and it shows in the level design, in the less cohesive art style and sometimes dodgy sprite work, and the general lack of ambition.

Like, whatever you think about Sonic, it was something that was fundamentally next gen, it didn't just look good it played like something you just couldn't do on last gen. And Nintendo was behind schedule and caught off guard, so they did what they felt like they could pull off convincingly on the shortest schedule, which was basically the same game as the last one but shorter, easier, and with more colors.

The new ideas in SMW are bad. Like the ghost houses, probably the worst design in the entire series. Anti-fun. There's a reason we never saw the cape again, it was totally broken. Even Yoshi works better as his own character than a power up.

It's not an awful game but it doesn't deserve to be discussed like the peak of the series. People take that as an article of faith but it doesn't feel earned.
 
ADiTAR said:
There's a cheat where you can ride Yoshi while invisible.
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Ima have to look that up if you're telling the truth!

EDIT: Just watched a video and having a second player makes it much easier. Player one gets a crown over their head which allows you to see where you are. Plus, having the second person means that if you die you don't have to start completely over at the previous checkpoint.
 
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SF Kosmo said:
It's baffling to me that polish is the first adjective you would reach for. The game was famously rushed and it shows in the level design, in the less cohesive art style and sometimes dodgy sprite work, and the general lack of ambition.

Like, whatever you think about Sonic, it was something that was fundamentally next gen, it didn't just look good it played like something you just couldn't do on last gen. And Nintendo was behind schedule and caught off guard, so they did what they felt like they could pull off convincingly on the shortest schedule, which was basically the same game as the last one but shorter, easier, and with more colors.

The new ideas in SMW are bad. Like the ghost houses, probably the worst design in the entire series. Anti-fun. There's a reason we never saw the cape again, it was totally broken. Even Yoshi works better as his own character than a power up.

It's not an awful game but it doesn't deserve to be discussed like the peak of the series. People take that as an article of faith but it doesn't feel earned.
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My best friend's favorite Mario game is World, and mine is 3. The only one that even enters the conversation dethroning it for him is 64. So I've been having this debate my whole life, but he also didn't try 3 until he got Super Mario All Stars so I sort of see him as innocently dumb (lol).

That said, while your take on World is essentially true I'm just not nearly as negative about it to say "it's not a bad game" rather I always thought 3 and World are very close. I played them almost back to back, getting an NES only one year before SNES came out, and didn't have 3 immediately. It ended up that I played 1, 3, World, a bunch of Capcom Disney platformers, and Sonic 1 within about a years time. If I was older and gave a shit about "next gen" maybe I would have cared more, but I just played the most fun games. My favorites were definitely 3, World and Sonic 1. World is a platforming god that only begins to show stress marks with another god in the room, even if it was a rushed response to Sonic.
 
I really enjoyed it. Not quite sure where I'd put it on the list. Maybe #4

Super Mario Bros 3
Super Mario Bros
Super Mario World
Super Mario Bros Wonder
New Super Mario Bros on DS

That feels right to me
 
protonion said:
Probably the worst Mario ever.
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I'd have to think about this a bit, but I may have to agree with you.

I think about how fun NSMB DS and 3D Land were. Even NSMB U was decent. 3D World was fantastic. Odyssey was ranked low for me, but I still played through it twice over the years. Wonder is just... boring. I got maybe halfway through before giving up. I still have my copy, but I'd have to be pretty desperate to play it again.
 
I'm intrigued some people didn't finish Wonder. I burned through it in 2 days (other than special world). It's kind of like a candy bar, a fast and easy sugar rush. But some people will get halfway through a candy bar and start thinking about steak.
 
Dance Dancing GIF by Tellermitte.de
 
SF Kosmo said:
It's not an awful game but it doesn't deserve to be discussed like the peak of the series. People take that as an article of faith but it doesn't feel earned.
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Mario 64 is the peak of the series IMO... but World is right alongside 3 as the best of 2D.

It's funny, because I view most of your criticisms as some of the many things I like most about the game! Specifically because of the way it differentiates it from -- and IMO improves on -- Mario 3. The cape and Yoshi are such an improvement in terms of actual platforming gameplay, much better than anything in 3 for me... 3 powerups I view as very gimmicky and/or boring. The controls of the cape, and the versatility and actual fun of it are unlike anything in 3. Yoshi, as not just an "ability" but an "easy mode" that doesn't make things TOO easy, is fantastic. Again, completely changes gameplay, is still fun, and again has variation via the Yoshi colors.

Those are the main reasons, but there are a lot of others... I think World feels much more vertical, which the cape & yoshi tie in to very well. The ghost houses, branching paths, and keys I don't think of as "anti-fun" at all but they in practice encourage a different kind of Mario level playing, which benefits the game and genre in general. Quality of life stuff is just not even close -- the save system, the backup item system, the "open world" element of going back to any previous level, the coins completionism/replayability addition. And of course Star Road.

One thing I do agree with that you're suggesting is in terms of the design, 3 is more groundbreaking than World... World is obviously using a lot of what 3 did in terms of how it improved on 2. And in terms of difficulty, 3 is definitely harder. Which is a credit to it considering the genre.

So it's always been close for me, I love them both, but I've always been a World guy... the actual gameplay is just streets ahead!
 
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Wonder was much better than Odyssey and easily in the Top 5 of Mario games ever and I really liked Odyssey

Nothing can touch legendary 2D entries like SMB3 and SMW but that's saying a lot
 
The fact that Nintendo can still sell and do well with 2D inspired games, gives me hope. I wish they would embrace more games of this nature with better budgets.
Can any other company do this in this day and age? Wonder as a game punched above it's weight, solid game and I did enjoy it more than Odyssey.
 
I also want to pop in and say that I really like the visual style of Wonder. The artists did a damn good job.
 
Best 2D one since World.

I honestly don't think you can even fairly compare the 2D games to 3D, it's a pretty pointless exercise when they're doing such different things.
 
Jack Videogames said:
Top 3 2D Mario game for me.

Super imaginative, super fun.

The gimmicks and the talking flower going "LOOK HOW QUIRKY WE ARE!" got a bit annoying. Mario is at its best when npcs don't talk.
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They were one of my favourite aspects to be fair.

Not that I want them to be a permanent feature of Mario games going forward.
 
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Honestly, the NSMB Wii and Wii U versions were better, more challenging games.

Wonder is more about spectacle and gimmicks than anything else.
 
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