maverick40
Junior Member
The wonderful 101 has literally zero mass market appeal so why would PS gamers pick that over battlefield 4 or killzone? I get it the wonderful 101 is a gaf darling but it is as niche as they come and the sales show that
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Now that the PS4 has already outsold the Wii U, where does Nintendo go from here?
- Thread starter Gonzo The Great
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The wonderful 101 has literally zero mass market appeal so why would PS gamers pick that over battlefield 4 or killzone? I get it the wonderful 101 is a gaf darling but it is as niche as they come and the sales show that
Thunder Monkey
Banned
That's what I'm hoping for.
PS4's early sales can rack up to a fairly high tally given the likelihood of it receiving consistent industry wide support for its life. I expect One to rebound to a degree in America, probably through trying to reach price parity with Sony. The gulf between them will be decided by each companies actions.
If MS can drop $100 I believe because of the design of the PS4 Sony would be in just as malleable a position. Always maintaining a price advantage. But Jan One numbers point to something I hope doesn't become a trend. I expect MS to lose marketshare in Europe and Japan, An optimistic total of 40 million units in America, 20-25 million in Europe, with Japan a negligible .5 million units.
WiiU I doubt will break the 8 million unit mark in America at all. Europe and Japan may have 6 million units between them. On its current trajectory. When you're talking this low even marginal increases can have a notable effect on final tallies. I still don't see it realistically selling more than 15 million units WW over a six year span.
So Sony is the horse I'm betting on. And I'm hoping the more casual gamer buys in. If they can gain even a fraction of that gamer while increasing their "core" gamer total from the prior generation Sony could easily have not only a very successful console, but a very profitable ecosystem. In six years I'm hoping they can be nearing 120 million units sold. 45-50 million units in America, 55-60 million units in Europe, and 10-15 million units in Japan.
I have no clue what Nintendo can do for WiiU. Nothing but ride it out methinks. They lost this generation spectacularly. Books will be written about it. Going from a system that sold nearly 100 million units in four years to one that won't likely sell 15 million in six.
Psycho_Mantis
Banned
Simply put by Iwata's own words, no one wants a WiiU or its just an undesirable product and no amount of price dropping is going to change that. Its become a Nintendo box for Nintendo fans, a audience that has been severely declining since SNES days (the ones that are willing to a buy a console just for those games).
Nintendo better get their ass in gear and start talking to third parties to get them on board with their next console or it will flop just like the WiiU. They are facing serious irrelevancy in the console market simply due to their lack of third party support.
Nintendo better get their ass in gear and start talking to third parties to get them on board with their next console or it will flop just like the WiiU. They are facing serious irrelevancy in the console market simply due to their lack of third party support.
Well, personally it's battlefield and killzones 4th games...they offer nothing new. I understand mass market. It's like any other large entertainment business. The mass market is usually flooded with over-budgeted and non-original junk. Milk franchises to death. I can't help for feeling sad for this industry, when games and publishers strive to create new experiences and they get shunned by the market. I blame the rise of the western market in part to the difficulty the industry is having.
Creating a new console this soon after the Wii U is publicity suicide and would betray all the gamers who bought a Wii U. It's just not going to happen for a while. Nintendo has always been a company that tries to tread new ground instead of retreading old ground (except for say some of their classic IPs). They may come out with some kind of different console that aims to a different audience and then go bananas at trying to get amazing quality software on the Wii U. It's just hard to convince developers to develop for the platform when the install base is so low and the hardware a bit behind in terms of the competition.
Psycho_Mantis
Banned
What? PS4 development started in 2008. Nintendo have in all likelihood already stated development of their next console.
Oh and the hardware difference isn't "a bit behind".
Always-honest
Banned
They'll be doing what they're always doing. Make games and take their time making them.
Grinchy
Banned
Yeah, but every Sonic game since Sonic Adventure 1 has been complete shit and it had nothing to do with hardware. The most recent ones seem to be getting better but I still don't think it's a valid comparison. If Nintendo went 3rd party (which I'm not even saying they should), they'd be taking amazing software to the other systems.
They wouldn't be bringing awful crap on the level of the Sonic games we've been subjected to since the Dreamcast. They'd be bringing the software that is good on its own to much more powerful, more competent systems. I don't think they'd shove out a "Mario 2K6" just because they suddenly weren't using their own hardware anymore.
pieatorium
Member
How about that 4th NSMB (15th?20th? mario) and 8th mario kart, wiiu got these new fresh games unlike those other systems. Just wait till the third smash and 10th Zelda come, we also have this fresh new zelda musou game i mean its not like 5 games in that genre release every year right?
w101 bombed hard in japan too you know is it the wests fault there too?
On paper it's certainly far behind but many developers have stated that it's a well adept console. I mean look at trailers for Bayonetta 2 and that game runs at 60 fps. Just because the Xbox One and PS4 have pretty textures and better effects doesn't mean it translates to better games. In my opinion it seems like many AAA studios have no idea what to make for these new consoles and the cost of making these games have such a high risk, low reward factor to them that the lack of creativity in the industry is staggering. At least Nintendo is still around to make sure brilliant game design is still relevant. I agree that they messed up a lot of aspects about the Wii U but I still love it as a console and I still love the gamepad. I think Nintendo is right when we they said that we've hit a wall in terms of graphics, sure it can always look even better but does that really matter anymore? I don't care if a wall has the best brick texture I've ever seen in my life, if I can't blow it up then I don't care, I want games not real life simulators.
The market wants what it wants, whether it's original or a rehash. Blaming the "western market" for the "difficulty the industry is having" is just...
Freezie KO
Banned
This is really a poor defense of the Wii U. Have you seen the line-up? There's one original niche action game with terrible art, poor controls, and it couldn't even break 80 on Metacritic.
Other than that, what else is on Wii U? Minigames and sequels with no new experiences. NSMB 4 and 5, 3D Land 2, Windwaker remake, Wii Sports remake, Wii Fit expansion. Even the best games on the platform, Pikmin and Tropical Freeze, play just like prior entries. And with the exception of Donkey Kong, these are coming from Japan.
Nintendo's software strategy as been as conservative and safe as it has ever been.
Psycho_Mantis
Banned
Theres nothing special about Bayonettas graphics. I never said better graphics would result in better games.
We have not a hit a wall in graphics. Next gen exclusive games blow ps360 games out of the water.
Graphical upgrades are still a massive selling point as that is the primary indicator of a next gen console. Not to mention that devs are not going to develop for a last gen console unless under a special circumstance like Wii.
Nintendo's games may be relevant but their console is not.
I wasn't defending the Wii U, or Nintendo. I was defending the W101 and in essence, developers like Platnum games in comparison to games like Battlefield 4.
I agree with all of your points about Nintendo games, but at the same time the games they release are some of the highest quality games period. That can't be argued. I would like to see them expand to new IP's but I think they can't afford to at this point and they certainly don't have the staff to work on multiple IP's without help from partners.
The western market is responsible for all the yearly sequels of the over budget and under-developed games we are getting.
The west did the business a huge service a decade ago and took the reigns over and showed the east new experiences and brought technical prowess and online gaming to new levels. However I look back at 2004 and look at now, and I haven't seen any growth other than the spec game. New engines are great, but I've played Battlefield years ago...a new engine did not change the gameplay. Instead we get nice graphics and a really buggy multiplayer experience.
Marvel only got "bought by Disney" because the Marvel movies were a success. No Marvel movie before Avengers had Disney's involvement and even the Avengers movie had little influence from Disney since that was the last Marvel Studios movie with involvement from Paramount.
Only thing they can do at this point is ride it out and release the software they promised. The PS4 outselling Wii U has changed nothing in the grand scheme of what Nintendo has to do. Dropping the price will hurt them more because they'll be taking a loss on each sold and abandoning it will damage their reputation with consumers who trusted them to support the console.
Freezie KO
Banned
I thought so too. Until they had the Investor's Presentation where Iwata stayed in power, they doubled down on the GamePad, and then announced they'd be moving resources to a "Quality of Life" platform.
Forgottonone
Member
I don't know about you. But I bought the Wii U specifically for the Japanese flavour since Sony has basically abandoned it and brands like Square and Konami only seem to care about pleasing western audiences. Nintendo will be fine right now they are supporting two systems not five like Sega tried doing. Thier losses won't be huge because they didn't make a super powerful machine. They are going to ride it out and start over. Each company in Video games has had a lot of ups and downs.
Canis lupus
Member
In the past few weeks I was getting excited about buying a WiiU, already have W101, Windwaker and Pikmin 3 for it. Recently saw a demopod in store so decided to try it out, it only had Nintendoland, just like it was 2012. It is an awfull game that just can't keep my attention for more than a few minutes. Quitting the game made me remember the reports about long loading times in and out of games/apps. I figured the demopod is probably not updated with the "new" firmware, are they still long?
But damn, I lost all my enthusiasm, these demopods leave a bad impression on potential customers.
But damn, I lost all my enthusiasm, these demopods leave a bad impression on potential customers.
You blamed the "western market" not "western developers." The market wanted those yearly iterative sequels and the devs/pubs made them. Complaining about Battlefield or whatever isn't going to give you more games like W101, especially if it doesn't sell.
Canis lupus
Member
Yeah, just like Square Enix. When their products aren't selling they reason it is not because they made unappealing products for their audience but that they made appealing products and the audience has shifted towards other things. Nintendo's audience is their fanbase, not the non-gamers they incorrectly thought they still had.
It's a bad product. Why do you expect people to pay a premium price for a bad product?
TheGreatMightyPoo
Banned
Because it has great exclusive games.
I know, in the current state of consoles, this is hard to wrap your head around.
Every console has great exclusive games. That's a given.
What about everything else that Nintendo fucked up with this machine?
Psycho_Mantis
Banned
Entirely subjective and pointless since nearly every console has great exclusive games.
Not everyone has the same taste as you. Many people cannot justify getting a WiiU because it doesn't have enough games that interest them.
The only noticeable eastern representative in the console realm is Japan. The east is thriving on PC and that has nothing to do with Valve but more to do with Chinese and Korean developers. Well, and Tencent shrewd business decision in acquiring LoL. There are very few companies that understand worldwide appeal for software even then it dampens by the divergence between the popularity of various platforms in these countries.
I'm with the other dude who said he bought it for the Japanese flavor. Seriously there is practically nothing good looking for PS4 or Xbox One that is classic Japanese gaming. The flooding of generic games from the west is depressing. I hope Japan can really bounce back and flourish again. I want the PS2 era back.
Because Japanese games are so un-generic.
The good ones aren't at all. The best we can do is Bioshock for creativity. Japan has a game where you are flying as naked men shooting things. So yes, unless you are speaking of mobile or tie-in games Japan used to kick ass at making interesting things. Mainly in the PS2 era. Man this thread sucks.
Memorabilia
Member
Sluggish sales for the Wii U might indicate there is nowhere to go but up, but in my estimation the perceived value of the Wii U is going to take a dive off a cliff in the not too distant future. It just isn't a compelling product for most gamers at its current price point and as the PS4 continues to pick up steam, this is only going to exacerbate the problem for Nintendo. It may be better to sell as many as possible at, say, $200 or even $150 per unit rather than selling a lot fewer at the current price-point and then having to fire-sale a ton of left-over warehouse stock once the bottom drops out. Market perception is tricky...there's a tipping point the Wii U is close to now that once it has passed there will be no return to value. So, fom what I understand, the profit model for consoles is still largely based on moving games (attachment rate). And to do that you need to get more consoles in the hands of gamers. Clearly, the market for the Wii U is just about saturated at the current price-point. Many (arguably most?) gamers who might be interested in a Wii U are holding off for a lower price because they dont view the console as a good buy at its current price. I suppose Nintendo could stick with their current direction to "respect" Nintendo fans who already purchased a Wii U at a higher price, but this seems like the classic case of throwing good money after bad. I think it'd be better for Nintendo and gamers alike if they drop the price to get more consoles in the hands of gamers and then make money selling more copies of various games.
Mihael Mello Keehl
Banned
Aint nothing wrong with that. I have all 3 systems and the the PS4/Xone still just have mainly western games I been playing on 360 for the past 8 years.
cartman414
Member
They'd have to forgo developing smaller franchise and one-off games and double down on Mario and Zelda in hopes of competing with other 3rd parties, and also work around other manufacturers' controllers (they've always been big on their own input schemes). And of course, paying 3rd party royalties instead of earning them.
Eh, there's no real advantage at this point developing for a single, weaker platform with less projected market share than what could easily be ported between the three competitors (PS4, XB1, PC) and look better to boot.
They didn't announce that they're moving resources to it. They've been expanding so they've been adding resources, a good portion of which were put on QOL.
Also, getting rid of Iwata would have solved nothing and put the company in an either bigger state, and the GamePad is a core feature of the Wii U...of course they're going to double down on it. Just because you don't like it doesn't mean that it should be scrapped.
What you seem to want is for them to become a "me too" company. That is not Nintendo. If that's what you want, then clearly Nintendo isn't for you.
Can you point to some non Nintendo titles that would feature in your top 10 games of 2013?
My perspective is that the kind of gaming I love is in rapid decline, therefore my expectations on Nintendo are lowered. I'll take samey if it means high quality. NSMB U is better than SMW, to give some context of what I mean by quality.
nowheretorun
Member
Good thing Sony sees this too (Indie).
Agreed.
All 3 Companies are guilty of this - I'm assuming you see Nintendo do this also?
Not sure if I agree with this.
This is from a post off an IGN member:-
Those were the best selling games in order on the Wii and everything Nintendo has been trying to do with the WiiU so far (including Donkey Kong Country: Tropical Freeze) is making sequels to their best selling Wii games to date. So, I have no reason to expect Nintendo to resurrect Star Fox or F-Zero. Even though I think a Metroid game will eventually come to WiiU, all of the above games have higher priority than Metroid or any other games that can get the people on this board excited. I am only going to focus to Nintendo's 1st party best sellers on the Wii to show you where I'm coming from:
1. Wii Sports - Wii Sports Club
2. Mario Kart Wii - Mario Kart 8
3. Wii Sports Resort - ? Wii Sports Club 2
4. Wii Play - Nintendoland
5. New Super Mario Bros Wii - New Super Mario Bros U
6. Wii Fit - Wii Fit U
7. Wii Fit Plus - ? Vitality Sensor U
8. Super Mario Galaxy - Super Mario 3D World
9. Super Smash Bros Brawl - Super Smash Bros U
10. Wii Party - Wii U Party
11. Mario Party 8 - ? Mario Party 10
12. Super Mario Galaxy 2 - ? Super Mario 3D World 2
13. Donkey Kong Country Returns - Donkey Kong Country: Tropical Freeze
14. Legend of Zelda: Twilight Princess - Legend of Zelda U
15. Link's Crossbow Training - Hyrule Warriors
16. Legend of Zelda: Skyward Sword - Legend of Zelda: Wind Waker HD
17. Animal Crossing: City Folk - ? Animal Crossing U
18. Mario Party 9 - ? Mario Party 11
19. Wii Music - Miyamoto's New IP
20. Super Paper Mario - Yoshi's Yarn
21. Big Brain Academy - ? Brain Game Wii U
22. Super Mario All Stars Anniversary - NES Remix 1+2
23. Wario Ware: Smooth Moves - ? Wario Ware U
24. Mario Strikers Charged - ? Mario Strikers U
25. Kirby's Epic Yarn - ? Kirby U
26. Metroid Prime 3: Corruption - ? Metroid U
27. Mario Super Sluggers - ? Mario Sluggers U
28. Wii Play Motion - ? Nintendoland 2
29. Kirby's Return To Dreamland - ? Kirby U II
30. Pokemon Battle Revolution - ? Pokemon Battle U
Those with a ? in front seem a pretty good guess imo (especially as some are rumored iirc).
Now, if this turns out to be true, then can we agree that, in fact, Nintendo are up there at the top with the worst of the worst in terms of rehashes etc, followed by Microsoft (to prove otherwise in this Xbox One gen imo) and then Sony (who personally I'm not labeling too prominently just yet because they have a terrific record of at least producing many many other games).
To keep on topic though, for me as a Wii U owner, Nintendo need firstly to ensure that I get the titles that cater towards my tastes;
- Zelda U E3 demo graphics and gameplay overhaul.
- MK8 not purely be aimed at casuals and have enough options to placate all gamers.
- SSBB.
- Wii HDMakes such as the Galaxy games or at least Mario Galaxy 3.
- New Mario game akin to the Galaxy series but not 3D World.
- Future use of the gamepad actually showing why it's there.
- Future mini/party games being fun, innovative, price reflective.
- Other Classic IP's brought back but not aimed purely for casuals.
- Basic functions/options/use of Wii U improving.
- Wouldn't mind some exclusive Indie titles that weren't overpriced, platformers or puzzle games that were unique to Wii U which made me want to buy them - thinking along the lines of games such as; Everyone's Gone To The Rapture, The Witness, Galak-Z, Rime etc etc. Games like Don't Starve would surely have been ideal on a Wii U and possibly is the perfect example of one that might actually have been better to play on a Wii U?
On top of that, they need to produce half a dozen great new ip's (even if half of them are aimed more at casual/family - I'm ok with that) before the end of the Wii U lifetime.
I reckon that would please enough people (considering it's a cheaper console - I paid £160 with NintendoLand) to take forward onto another console, although they would need to bang this one out of the park from 'launch' with 'proof', 'tech' and 'the games' for it to even be considered by a lot of people.
You're right in that nothing will come of it. Nintendo do not give one single fuck about ANYONE else in the industry, including their customers. They will throw anyone under a bus to get 'the next big thing'.
Ridiculous.
The business reasoning behind Hyrule Warriors is that 3rd party games tank on Wii U. Koei wanted to bring their Musou franchise to the console but Nintendo proposed them to use Zelda skins in order for it to sell somewhat decently.
Secondly, the games play nothing alike. One is a tech demo for Wii Zapper, the other is a third person melee combat action game.
Pikmin 3
The Wonderful 101
Bayonetta 2
X
Explain those, I want a laugh.
Also Nintendo Land is a brand new concept, oldschool arcade design. It also features the most next gen experience so far called asymmetric gameplay. Mario Chase is the best game of gen 8 so far.
Felessan
Member
PS4 got some exclusive and improved versions of all cross-gen and multi-plat games. And eventually will get more of them. If you are looking for one platform for all games - it's a best choice now.
On other hand we have WiiU with 3 interesting games per year, which hardly justify purchase. Tastes differ, this is why quantity and variety is also important, and if someone tired of Mario and don't like 2D platforming and sport gimmicks - there is not much left on WiiU.
For a lot of people COD/BF/FIFA are great games. And they would like to continue play them, and if they got an improved version (better graphics, better physics, new features etc) - it would be enough for them to upgrade.
I'd go further and say modern Sonic games somehow managed to change the course set by Sonic Adventure and climb up in quality. Sonic Colors is a faster Sonic 3 with an extra dimension. Sonic 06 is Sonic Adventure 3.
I still like the Adventure series, but I understand they're not for everyone 
Sega were also forced to go third party as they burned up all their cash on the Dreamcast, but Nintendo has time to test the waters and has several markets from mobile to consoles.
Nintendo would make the most money with another success like the Wii, but I'd rather see them survive with games me and my friends can play without buying a separate gaming console.
PS2 era will never come back, get over it.
LinkToTheFuture
Member
I don't think they care. Didn't they say they were completely unaware of the staple online systems Xbox and Playstation have these days? They dont seem like the company that learns from its competition or takes the things they could really use from them =/
It'll come back in 15 - 20 years in the form or indie games. Kind of how the resurgence of 2D side-scrollers are making a comeback now. People have a long wait though.
It can happen but in a scaled back form, what Inafune is doing with his Mighty No 9. We can get the next Mistwalker/Sakaguchi traditional JRPG, but perhaps in a graphical style like Bastion.
The Witness also shows how sophistcated a small team game can become.
I just hope that a revolution will occur over there, instead of a complete collapse / iOS future.
Mario Chase is a reskinned version of Pac-Man Vs. on the GameCube with a few new features like varying terrain:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K9qthavqEFk
And for those who don't remember, Pac-Man Vs. was the game whose E3 debut was so poorly received that it inspired an internet meme for lack of interest:
http://knowyourmeme.com/memes/reaction-guys-gaijin-4koma
What are those "classic Japanese games" coming out on the WiiU? Honest question, it would be great if the WiiU became the new home of small/medium Japanese studios, but I don't see this happening, I just see Nintendo games and the token effort from big Japanese companies like Namco and Capcom.
Okay, but it's a brand new concept in the context talking about how Wii U's lineup is just sequels to Wii bestsellers. There is no Wii equivalent of Nintendo Land.
Brerlappin
Member
People need to just finally admit to themselves that the Wii-U is lost. Its not going to make a miraculous recovery at this stage. It's firmly in Dreamcast territory now, and no failed console has ever had a turnaround this late in the game.
With Xbone & PS4 out, people already think of WiiU as last gen, if they even think of it at all. My wife is a moderate gamer, she plays Kingdom Hearts/Fable/Alice games, owned a Wii and played typical casual Wii games etc, and the other day mentioned one of her friends had got Zelda Wind waker for the Wii. I was like
"oh you mean the WiiU version?"
Her: "whats a WiiU?"
Seriously, when people who bought your previous console dont even know what a WiiU is, you have a problem.
With Xbone & PS4 out, people already think of WiiU as last gen, if they even think of it at all. My wife is a moderate gamer, she plays Kingdom Hearts/Fable/Alice games, owned a Wii and played typical casual Wii games etc, and the other day mentioned one of her friends had got Zelda Wind waker for the Wii. I was like
"oh you mean the WiiU version?"
Her: "whats a WiiU?"
Seriously, when people who bought your previous console dont even know what a WiiU is, you have a problem.
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