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[SkeptiMism]

I always wonder how people come up with that "Nintendo should release a console that's more powerful than PS4" BS. I think it's pretty obvious at this point that power isn't an answer for Nintendo. A new powerful console wouldn't suddenly bring 3rd parties back like some magic. Why? Because there's no real audience for 3rd party games on Nintendo systems. And that audience doesn't just suddenly appear because of a more powerful console.

Nintendo consoles have always been more of a novelty instead of a "gamer's choice" (this sounds a bit stupid thing to say, but I mean that if you can get only a single console, a Nintendo console isn't really a viable system to go for because of no 3rd party support).

Nintendo definitely needs to work on their 3rd party relations, but there's no one single answer that fixes everything right away. The road to the fix is a long one. Getting people from Sony and MS ecosystems and creating audience of your own for 3rd party games isn't easy and fast.

A console that's the most powerful for 2-3 years but at the same time costs relatively much isn't any answer. Some of the people who were disappointed with Nintendo after Gamecube would be back sure, but that's simply not enough.

Going 3rd party wouldn't really be a smart solution at least at this point either because they'd have to downsize significantly and instead of getting royalty fees they'd have to pay royalty fees. Going 3rd party might become a solution in the future, but before that it's far smarter to try other options in the market.

I'd say a cheap console would be one of those options. Part of the reason why Wii was so successful is because it was so affordable. Many people just bought it without much thinking. Obviously the far bigger factor was the hype they managed to create around the system starting from its reveal and then how they managed to continue that hype. Then the console launched with Wii Sports, which was something new.

There's not that much chance that Nintendo could manage to create that much hype again of course, but not messing up the reveal like with Wii U would be a good start too. Making it clear that it's a new console is a must, instead of people thinking it's a new controller. Fixing the other things such as the name, early support (don't leave it to rot for several months after launch because retailers and people just start to not care about the system), launch games (it's really not easy to get good launch games, but 2d Mario isn't really a good solution I'd say) would be good too. Get a lot of indie games to the system (that's one thing they're doing well now, but it's been taking quite a while to get more steady) and get services like an actually good virtual console library.

One possible solution would be simply to merge their handheld and console to a single device. Going with one single device might not be an ideal solution though, and someone would argue that cutting down one source of money isn't good but this device could sell buttloads and counter the need for 2 systems because of its massive library. At the moment Nintendo's output is divided between 2 systems, and while it's relatively good on both, it still leaves a lot to be desired and it leaves a lot of gaps. Combined on one single device that output would be huge. Who could resist that?

I don't get the argument that Nintendo shouldn't kill off the Wii U because it would piss off the people who already bought it. There's not even 5 million of them. It makes absolutely no sense to slog through all this, pissing into the wind, and sacrificing a potentially large market because you're afraid of annoying a handful of diehard loyalists.

86 it and either focus exclusively on the 3DS or try and cobble together some off-the-shelf parts for another go. I don't think the latter is a good idea because it still doesn't address their stubborn focus on the safe (Mario, more Mario, occasionally Zelda and Donkey Kong) and the fact that their teams don't seem geared up for next-gen development. The handheld space is essentially theirs, its successful for them (keeping them afloat at this point), and their more interesting IPs are better suited to it (Pokémon, Animal Crossing, etc).

5 million people (not to mention a large part of those 5 million are probably some of their most loyal customers) screaming in internet and in their life how they were betrayed can be pretty bad for image. Not only directly (because of all the people hearing about the lousy move by Nintendo) but also indirectly, meaning the insecurity people would have in future about Nintendo products.

Obviously it's not smart of them to keep sinking very much money on Wii U however, but they need at least minimal support.

 

[Thomas_Daly]

Are they seriously only six games coming out in the next 4 months?

wow that terrible wtf Nintendo

 

[Richardbro]

If Nintendo were to release a new powerful system, third parties still wouldn't support it. The reason is because they know that owners of the system would still rather buy superior Nintendo games (IMO) instead of their games which would result in low sales.

Can't really blame Nintendo for making quality games.

 

[pvpness]

Yep. Make the WiiU their new entry console and come out with something that can compete. Something that can get respectable/equal versions of multiplats while building the excluisves people buy Nintendo products for.

If they want to continue making consoles.

Bolded Never going to happen. I don't know exactly why but I feel incredibly optimistic about doubling down on this absolute being correct for the next 20 years.

Nintendo needs to accept that and plan accordingly, taking no 3rd party into consideration at all.

 

[Mango The Magician]

Are they seriously only six games coming out in the next 4 months?

Kart could be out during that time.

 

[freezamite]

Ummm no. I want Nintendo in the console business too, but them pulling out doesn't suddenly mean they're going to start putting out Call of Duty equivalents.

Of course it means this. Do you think that they will quit the console market and still continue with the same strategy that made them quit?
Furthermore, them quitting the console space also means a severe change on the enterprise high-ranks.

Nintendo going 3rd party will follow the same path than SEGA or any other 3rd party out there:
Safe products (and that would mean incredible graphics) with simple to pathetic level design (this not only is not appreciated by the majority of """gamers""", in fact it's the reason most of those """gamers""" don't finish/buy games that are "complicated").

If you think that a failed Nintendo would simply pull the same games they're currently pulling out, but on the PS4 and with better graphics you really don't know in which world do you live.
Level design, solid gameplay mechanichs... this also costs money and time.

Most videogame buyers don't want time to be spent on those things but on better tech, and that's what a 3rd party Nintendo would deliver.

 

[Pie and Beans]

When considering its outsold it with a staggered launch and yet to release in Japan (not that I expect gangbusters because of that regions contracting industry), then it becomes all the more eye opening.

I'm sure people are tired of hearing it, but hybrid handheld is the only route they can choose to go down as their home console business has become untenable (why develop costly videogames for the system that sells less and less with each generation rather than profit off of handheld audience all in one buying mass) and there is no saving it short of making a huge loss leading VR system (at least twice as powerful as WiiU since screens needed for each eye, thus perhaps even a PS4.25 equivalent) we hear about in 2015 and releases in 2016.

Of course it is. Look, I'm the first to know that the ones who play because we simply enjoy to play great videogames are a bunch of "freaks", and that what's really cool is to play semi-automatized games without any gameplay depth and astonishing presentation.

Nintendo giving up on the console space it's the same as them abandoning their philosophies.
Nintendo going 3rd party means Mario with exceptional graphics and absolutely atrocious gameplay due to level design being totally and completely minimized in terms of importance.

Sorry, but there are still a few people here that don't play to get "immersed" into a story, but that simply play because we like to. To those traditional gamers, Nintendo and some indies is the last thing that this industry has left.

Even when for you to be compared to a "freak" that plays because he likes to play may be an insult, it would be better if Nintendo survived and those 4 freaks that are still left can still play some big budged games directed at them, otherwise this industry will end exploding like it did two decades ago, and it will be even worse...

Of course it means this. Do you think that they will quit the console market and still continue with the same strategy that made them quit?
Furthermore, them quitting the console space also means a severe change on the enterprise high-ranks.

Nintendo going 3rd party will follow the same path than SEGA or any other 3rd party out there:
Safe products (and that would mean incredible graphics) with simple to pathetic level design (this not only is not appreciated by the majority of """gamers""", in fact it's the reason most of those """gamers""" don't finish/buy games that are "complicated").

If you think that a failed Nintendo would simply pull the same games they're currently pulling out, but on the PS4 and with better graphics you really don't know in which world do you live.
Level design, solid gameplay mechanichs... this also costs money and time.

Most videogame buyers don't want time to be spent on those things but on better tech, and that's what a 3rd party Nintendo would deliver.

Nintendo does not have a patent on "game design", "fun", and "magic". Such severe extremist nonsense. Triple quotations around the word gamers has to be parody level, fucking hell.

 

[Coolwhip]

If Nintendo were to release a new powerful system, third parties still wouldn't support it. The reason is because they know that owners of the system would still rather buy superior Nintendo games (IMO) instead of their games which would result in low sales.

Can't really blame Nintendo for making quality games.

That's why Nintendo made such an amazing choice by not chasing that toxic dudebro console market with Wii. They just completely blew it in the end.

 

[Apophis2036]

wow that terrible wtf Nintendo

There would be three games for PS4 in 2014 if it didn't have third party support (Infamous, Driveclub and The Order), I don't understand peoples surprise at the WiiU software line up. If they are lucky there will be one exclusive per month, every month.

 

[rjinaz]

I said PS4 and Xbone would struggle to meet 3 million, one is on around 3 and the other is on what 4.2 ?, don't act like I said they would struggle to sell a million.

I believe you said in 3 months though. It's been not even 2 yet.

 

[EatChildren]

Nintendo going 3rd party means Mario with exceptional graphics and absolutely atrocious gameplay due to level design being totally and completely minimized in terms of importance.

Interesting that you feel the only thing keeping Nintendo a gameplay centric studio is having their own hardware alongside software, and that the designers, directors, and producers that have been with the company for years, producing the games you assuredly know and love, are so weak willed and insecure about their design and company philosophies that they'd totally collapse and lose their way without the Nintendo hardware safety net.

I can see it now: Shigeru Miyamoto, legendary developer, without a Nintendo home console to guide him, staring at a blank design document page, unable to think beyond "how deep can our tessellation go".

 

[hongcha]

Are they seriously only six games coming out in the next 4 months?

Hard to do more than that when 3rd parties won't touch your console with a 10 foot pole.

 

[Haines]

How do the mods let the exact same thread be created like every other day...

why is there not just 1 topic.

 

[Kuro]

I said PS4 and Xbone would struggle to meet 3 million, one is on around 3 and the other is on what 4.2 ?, don't act like I said they would struggle to sell a million.

They didn't struggle at all though. Both consoles are selling out. They are selling consoles as fast as they can make them while Nintendo is sitting on warehouses full of Wii Us at this point.

 

[Apophis2036]

I believe you said in 3 months though. It's been not even 2 yet.

Yes and as I said I was wrong, if I was sad enough to go trawling through some peoples post history for the past six months I'm sure I could find a few prediction gems myself but it doesn't bother me to the same extent it does some others.

 

[Wolfgang Jr]

Wii III-a-go-go, baby!!

 

[AstroNut325]

As much as I like to see Nintendo crash and burn (sorry, I hate their hardware strategy so I refuse to purchase their hardware)... thinking that you can drop a console gaming system from the market and call it a day is asinine. If Nintendo were to do such a thing it would cast doubt and fear towards their future hardware products. "What if it's a failure again and they'll just drop it in a year or two!"

Not going to happen and it's not a sound strategy.

Edit:

Interesting that you feel the only thing keeping Nintendo a gameplay centric studio is having their own hardware alongside software, and that the designers, directors, and producers that have been with the company for years, producing the games you assuredly know and love, are so weak willed and insecure about their design and company philosophies that they'd totally collapse and lose their way without the Nintendo hardware safety net.

I can see it now: Shigeru Miyamoto, legendary developer, without a Nintendo home console to guide him, staring at a blank design document page, unable to think beyond "how deep can our tessellation go".

Bravo! Cheers mate!

 

[Tobor]

Interesting that you feel the only thing keeping Nintendo a gameplay centric studio is having their own hardware alongside software, and that the designers, directors, and producers that have been with the company for years, producing the games you assuredly know and love, are so weak willed and insecure about their design and company philosophies that they'd totally collapse and lose their way without the Nintendo hardware safety net.

I can see it now: Shigeru Miyamoto, legendary developer, without a Nintendo home console to guide him, staring at a blank design document page, unable to think beyond "how deep can our tessellation go".

Bravo. This should be posted every time this argument comes up.

 

[Deactivision]

In the short term, Nintendo should and likely will stay the course and continue to create quality software for the systems they've brought to market. For the future they obviously need to come up with something that will grab people's imagination and/or tap into an existing broader market in a relevant way. They're facing deterioration of their key markets from all fronts -- Sony/MS/PC on the console side and a tidal wave of mobile gaming on the other.

The more I think about it the more it seems that the Nintendo Phone is a real possibility as a third pillar handheld, alongside a similar, cheaper device without phone features. I think a lot of consumers, especially in Japan, would be interested in an all-in-one device that plays exclusive Nintendo content in addition to having traditional smartphone features. Elsewhere in the world it would be popular among gaming enthusiasts and some parents might see it as an appropriate option for a child's first mobile phone.

If they go this route, I'd like to see a unified Nintendo Entertainment System that takes these handhelds and incorporates them into a home console setup as a second screen a la the gamepad, maybe docking the handheld screen into a controller and connecting wirelessly to a TV-connected box. Some games would be playable on handheld only, while other more demanding games would require the box for graphics and CPU processing.

While it seems like an obvious direction for the company to take, there are many hurdles Nintendo would have to overcome to get there (online infrastructure, hangups about children communicating freely with their devices, resistance to open standards and competition, etc). They're such a slow-moving corporation that I don't know if they could be ready to bring a product like this to market in three to four years when the time has come to refresh their lineup.

 

[InsaneZero]

I don't get the argument that Nintendo shouldn't kill off the Wii U because it would piss off the people who already bought it. There's not even 5 million of them. It makes absolutely no sense to slog through all this, pissing into the wind, and sacrificing a potentially large market because you're afraid of annoying a handful of diehard loyalists.

The practical reason for not killing off the Wii U is that there is no reason to do so. It'll most likely have a short lifecycle anyhow and Nintendo should not push out a replacement or successor product without significant planning beforehand. For the Wii U, Nintendo just needs to focus on increasing profitability of the product.

 

[Shmuely Bully]

Hah. Listening to Jaffe would be a bad idea. And to think a company like Nintendo would sell to Disney, crazy talk.

I feel Nintendo should learn from the Gamecube, learn from the Wii, learn from the Wii U. Release one more console and if that fails despite making all the right moves, radically change your business.

The animated Mickey Mouse/Mario crossovers write themselves! I'm pretty sure Disney has more money than god and could buy Nintendo at the drop of a hat, but it isn't in either of their best interests.

 

[Riki]

How do the mods let the exact same thread be created like every other day...

why is there not just 1 topic.

The Official Nintendo is Doomed [OT] WiiU Dun Fucked

 

[Father_Brain]

If Nintendo were to release a new powerful system, third parties still wouldn't support it. The reason is because they know that owners of the system would still rather buy superior Nintendo games (IMO) instead of their games which would result in low sales.

Can't really blame Nintendo for making quality games.

That's pretty much nonsense. It has far, far less to do with quality than it does with the vast majority of Nintendo's first-party output being aimed at a very different set of demographics than those most third-party publishers actively court.

 

[Apophis2036]

They didn't struggle at all though. Both consoles are selling out. They are selling consoles as fast as they can make them while Nintendo is sitting on warehouses full of Wii Us at this point.

The Xbone is far from sold out...

I don't really get why I'm being attacked, I made a prediction several months ago, I was wrong and I have admitted it. Everyone knew PS4 and Xbone would sell really well in the first two months, the question was how many they would sell after Jan when the market for consoles and the exclusive games dry up. WiiU itself had a very good start but soon crashed and burned in late Jan, there is nothing to say the same won't happen to consoles that are $50 and $150 more expensive not counting another $50 to play online.

 

[dolemite]

The WiiU is delivering something that no other console can: first party Nintendo games in 1080p. That's all I care about. I can play any other multiplat on the PS4.

 

[Mlatador]

Sony nears bankruptcy, Japanese government barters sales for its major divisions.

Nintendo buys PlayStation division, Japanese gamers rejoice, mass migration to Xbox as US gamers leave in anticipation of "kiddification" of PlayStation.

Years later, Nintendo purchased by Google as they enter the console marketplace

Samsung creates its own console as old man Microsoft slowly fades into irrelevance.

Good post!

But seriously, there's not much that will change for Nintendo.

They're going to do what they've been doing since they realised the Wii U wasn't as successful as they wanted:

- further improve the marketing
- further continue strengthen their relationships with indie-devs (they are doing a relly good job in that regard)/push Unity
- continue releasing awesome games
- continue their parternships with japanese devs and make sure the Wii U is gonna become a profitable venture.
- secure one or the other 3rd Party exclusive.

I believe 2014 will be a very good year for Wii U, regardless of what Sony and MS are doing. Anything else (discontinue Wii U, throw tons of money at every 3rd party release, LOL) is just silly talk by people who don't know anything about business.

Neither the N64 or the Gamecube were finanical failures, and I believe the Wii U will definitely do better than both.

That's objectively speaking.

Personally I'm glad that there won't change much, because I'm pretty statisfied with my Wii U so far. It's the only home-console alternative for someone who doesn't like cinematic games and most shootbangs, and also likes local-mulitplayer and free-online. From a "gamer" perspetive, I don't care if they sell more or less than the PS4 as long as I get my arcade racers (Fast Racing Neo, The 90s Arcade Racer), SRPGs (Fire Emblem x SMT), JRPGs (X), Platformers (Donkey Kong: TF), Third Person Action Game (Bayonetta 2), Fun Racers (Mario Kart 8) and Super Smash Brothers. That's plenty enough for me for 2014.

 

[blast processed]

Are they seriously only six games coming out in the next 4 months?

7, WiiU Fit hits retail on the 1/10. Still weak sauce.

 

[Prince Vultan]

They most likely don't give a fuck one would assume.

Nintendo does not have a patent on "game design", "fun", and "magic". Such severe extremist nonsense. Triple quotations around the word gamers has to be parody level, fucking hell.

He is making my evening

 

[Lexxism]

Are they seriously only six games coming out in the next 4 months?

That's 7 if you count Wii Fit U(beaten). Even XB1 has the same number of titles coming out in the next 4 months.

 

[jmizzal]

I will say this here too, PS1 and PS2 outsold Nintendo by a huge margin it wasnt even close, Nintendo was fine back then and they will be fine now as long as they are making a profit. They dont need to match PS4 head to head in sales, yea Wii outsold everybody but that was after years of being outsold by Sony in the home console space.

 

[Chinpoko_Master]

Yes and as I said I was wrong, if I was sad enough to go trawling through some peoples post history for the past six months I'm sure I could find a few prediction gems myself but it doesn't bother me to the same extent it does some others.

Yeah, it's really sad how it took less than 5 minutes to go digging through my bookmarks folder to find those posts that you made. Don't worry though, there are plenty more where that came from, and not just from you. Someday, I'll make a thread and post all of them.

 

[rjinaz]

Yes and as I said I was wrong, if I was sad enough to go trawling through some peoples post history for the past six months I'm sure I could find a few prediction gems myself but it doesn't bother me to the same extent it does some others.

Oh it doesn't bother me, I'm just really glad you were wrong. You were not (are not) the only person claiming consoles are dying.

That being said, if one makes a prediction on the internet, one shouldn't be surprised when it comes to bite them in the arse when it turns out they were way wrong. That's why you won't see me making them. I tend to be more wrong than right.

 

[Shmuely Bully]

That's 7 if you count Wii Fit U(beaten). Even XB1 has the same number of titles coming out in the next 4 months.

Positive or negative comparison? XB1 launched two months ago.

 

[PoweredBySoy]

Joke post?

Hah. Wishful thinking I guess. Retro.......

 

[gamergirly]

How do the mods let the exact same thread be created like every other day...

why is there not just 1 topic.

The thread title is interesting considering we have no official numbers to confirm if PS4 has out sold the Wii U.....

 

[Narpas Sword0]

Yes and as I said I was wrong, if I was sad enough to go trawling through some peoples post history for the past six months I'm sure I could find a few prediction gems myself but it doesn't bother me to the same extent it does some others.

On this very page you are trying to justify your ridiculous prediction, and in this very thread you are continuing to make ridiculous predictions. Enough already.

 

[Perfect Cha0s]

I always wonder how people come up with that "Nintendo should release a console that's more powerful than PS4" BS. I think it's pretty obvious at this point that power isn't an answer for Nintendo. A new powerful console wouldn't suddenly bring 3rd parties back like some magic. Why? Because there's no real audience for 3rd party games on Nintendo systems. And that audience doesn't just suddenly appear because of a more powerful console.

I read the rest of your post, but wanted to comment on the bolded. It's a bit disingenuous to say that Nintendo simply has no 3rd party audience, and that they would never come back even with more powerful hardware. It's problematic that Nintendo has, for two generations now, made hardware that simply can't compete (tech-wise) with Sony's/MS's offerings. Having a substantially weaker system and some sort of gimmick (Wii Remote/Gamepad) to develop for means that third parties would probably rather not bother to develop for Nintendo's consoles, and instead develop a game that can be spread across PC/PS4/XBO with few alterations.

IMO, dropping a console mid-gen that outperforms the Xbox and PS4 would be a stupid idea, but releasing one that is spec-wise competitive with the PS5/XboxTwo near those consoles would likely get Nintendo more third-party support than they have now.

 

[metalslimer]

I really would not expect a slew of announcements this year for Wii U. After how W101 ultra bombed and how Bayonetta 2 will also ultra bomb, Nintendo is probably going to retreat into a Mario shell for Wii U.

 

[SneakyStephan]

Valve should buy them so they can make pc games

Spoiler

this post is a parody of all the hilarious "sony should buy x developer" posts

OT:

The best thing to do is probably to just keep supporting it, realise that a few million people still paid big money for terrible hardware just to play nintendo games and that they owe it to all those customers and fans to keep supporting the thing for as long as they can, lest they alienate what fanbase they have left

And next time they can be less arrogant about the hardware and price and give it a less stupid and confusing name

 

[InsaneZero]

Nintendo should not be releasing multipurpose products (ie: a phone) given their circumstances. They are currently a dedicated gaming/toy company. They should be focused on making gaming-oriented products right now, since that's what they know best. They can experiment with different product offerings once they become more stable, but not when their primary revenue streams are in trouble.

 

[Coolwhip]

Interesting that you feel the only thing keeping Nintendo a gameplay centric studio is having their own hardware alongside software, and that the designers, directors, and producers that have been with the company for years, producing the games you assuredly know and love, are so weak willed and insecure about their design and company philosophies that they'd totally collapse and lose their way without the Nintendo hardware safety net.

I can see it now: Shigeru Miyamoto, legendary developer, without a Nintendo home console to guide him, staring at a blank design document page, unable to think beyond "how deep can our tessellation go".

Because like any company Nintendo has a company culture. It all ties together, the actual hardware isn't even the most important part. For 30 years Nintendo made Nintendo branded hardware to play their games. They made huge profits selling their consoles, not having to pay a portion to Sony or MS or whoever from their gamesales. They engineered their own system for their own needs, which produced stuff like the Wii and game controllers as we know them.

In the end even Nintendo will have to go '3rd party' though, because hardware will be irrelevant sooner or later. Either because TVs, tablets or smartphones will take their place or even cloud services like Playstation Now. But it wont be easy to completely change the culture of a company after 30 years.

 

[KAL2006]

If Nintendo were to release a new powerful system, third parties still wouldn't support it. The reason is because they know that owners of the system would still rather buy superior Nintendo games (IMO) instead of their games which would result in low sales.

Can't really blame Nintendo for making quality games.

This is a joke post, plenty of 3rd parties do well, just look at SNES it had incredible first party games yet 3rd parties were successful, even Wii had success with games like Just Dance. I think Nintendo's best move is to have similar hardware architecture and power to PS4 and Xbox One so 3rd parties can make multiplats without much effort. Perhaps a little extra twist to make it stand out and not just a PS4 Nintendo edition released in 2015.

Basically this is what I would do if I was Nintendo
Fall 2015 release
PS4 level hardware for instant multiplatform support due to easy porting
Classic Controller Pro 2 and WiiMote 2 bundled
Kinect type camera bundled
Miiverse more expanded with more social features
Zelda NextGen for launch (WiiU one is cancelled for this)
Wii Sports 2 for launch (online and tons if social features)
Nintendogs for launch (uses camera for AR features)
Pokemon MMO announced for future
Mario 64 Successor announced

 

[GrotesqueBeauty]

Why is it exactly that Sony can go entire generations bathed in red ink and you wont see the sheer number of alarmist threads like this that Nintendo typically gets in a month on GAF? You know, chalkboard meme and Amirox meltdown not withstanding. Not that Nintendo is beyond cold hard analysis, but these threads always seem to gravitate towards the same hackneyed talking points about how the only way for Nintendo to move forward is to fire Iwata and scrap a console that's been out for one year, blah blah, blah, blah, blah. It's hard to take anything the OP says seriously after that.

Another question that begs to be asked is why Wii and DS are considered anomalous luck, but when a system doesn't burst out of the gate on fire all the sudden Iwata is completely incompetent and out of touch? Imagine if shareholders were gaffers, particularly after the middling launch of the 3DS. I have my own questions about Nintendo's trajectory, but it's preposterous to write off Iwata's business acumen, which had led to some of the most profitable systems in Nintendo's history. Guess that doesn't matter in an industry with a memory the size of a goldfish. What have you done for me lately, right?

I'm starting to wonder when this topic will get its own community thread, because it seems to pop up 10 times a week in various thinly veiled ways. I keep thinking one day I'll click and be welcomed to some brilliant new break down of the state of Nintendo, but the crux of the conversation always seems to revolve around parroting the same wildly reductive arguments. Here's a reminder- Nintendo is already restructuring. It's also apparent that Wii U software took a hit while resources were dedicated to bolstering the 3DS, which is now stabilized. As insular as Nintendo's decisions are in some regards I don't personally believe that they operate in a complete vacuum like a lot of people seem to. Wii U has plenty of untapped potential, and not just in an abstract pie in the sky way, but you can't just right a ship overnight. Development takes time. It remains to be seen what seeds Nintendo has planted, but already there's a few signs of things to come.

For the most part I think it's accepted that 3rd party support is never going to blossom outside of a handful of cool niche games every now and then. If the insane growth of the Wii userbase couldn't get companies to pull their heads out of their asses and produce something better than shit ports and C quality spin-offs there's no reason to suspect they'll leap from their seats to do Wii U exclusives that matter. Imo Nintendo should start money hatting promising young indies. Tell the old guard to fuck off unless they bring the goods, and get fresh talent locked by providing them with an opportunity to grow and flourish on the platform. I also think Nintendo should make sweetheart deals with companies like Capcom and Konami to do comparatively modest retro revivals, retail, not digital. Let the other companies chase after the crowd that's more wowed by ornate presentation than the fundamental joy of interaction. Put the focus on well paced pick up and play experiences and tickle that nostalgia bone with cool franchises that have sat dormant. Differentiate yourself from your competitors arms race. That's what I'd do with the Wii U if it were my choice.

Then there's the obvious. Mario Kart, Smash Bros., and to a lesser extent Tropical Freeze. Nintendo knows what its money makers are, and it's leaning on them heavily during the Wii U's second year. Alone I don't think they'll have all the pull in the world, but as games like that accumulate in the library in concert with more niche stuff like Wonderful 101, Bayonetta, Pikmin, etc. I think more hitherto ambivalent enthusiasts will start seeing Wii U as a viable secondary platform. Sometimes it only takes a few "must-haves", but a library of unique supporting software definitely helps.

 

[Riki]

Why is it exactly that Sony can go entire generations bathed in red ink and you wont see the sheer number of alarmist threads like this that Nintendo typically gets in a month on GAF? You know, chalkboard meme and Amirox meltdown not withstanding. Not that Nintendo is beyond cold hard analysis, but these threads always seem to gravitate towards the same hackneyed talking points about how the only way for Nintendo to move forward is to fire Iwata and scrap a console that's been out for one year, blah blah, blah, blah, blah. It's hard to take anything the OP says seriously after that.

Another question that begs to be asked is why Wii and DS are considered anomalous luck, but when a system doesn't burst out of the gate on fire all the sudden Iwata is completely incompetent and out of touch? Imagine if shareholders were gaffers, particularly after the middling launch of the 3DS. I have my own questions about Nintendo's trajectory, but it's preposterous to write off Iwata's business acumen, which had led to some of the most profitable systems in Nintendo's history. Guess that doesn't matter in an industry with a memory the size of a goldfish. What have you done for me lately, right?

I'm starting to wonder when will this topic get its own community thread, because it seems to pop up 10 times a week in various thinly veiled ways. I keep thinking one day I'll click and be welcomed to some brilliant new break down of the state of Nintendo, but the crux of the conversation always seems to revolve around parroting the same wildly reductive arguments. Here's a reminder- Nintendo is already restructuring. It's also apparent that Wii U software took a hit while resources were dedicated to bolstering the 3DS, which is now stabilized. As insular as Nintendo's decisions are in some regards I don't personally believe that they operate in a complete vacuum like a lot of people seem to. Wii U has plenty of untapped potential, and not just in an abstract pie in the sky way, but you can't just right a ship overnight. Development takes time. It remains to be seen what seeds Nintendo has planted, but already there's a few signs of things to come.

For the most part I think it's accepted that 3rd party support is never going to blossom outside of a handful of cool niche games every now and then. If the insane growth of the Wii userbase couldn't get companies to pull their heads out of their asses and produce something better than shit ports and C quality spin-offs there's no reason to suspect they'll leap from their seats to do Wii U exclusives that matter. Imo Nintendo should start money hatting promising young indies. Tell the old guard to fuck off unless they bring the goods, and get fresh talent locked by providing them with an opportunity to grow and flourish on the platform. I also think Nintendo should make sweetheart deals with companies like Capcom and Konami to do comparatively modest retro revivals, retail, not digital. Let the other companies chase after the crowd that's more wowed by ornate presentation than the fundamental joy of interaction. Put the focus on well paced pick up and play experiences and tickle that nostalgia bone with cool franchises that have sat dormant. Differentiate yourself from your competitors arms race. That's what I'd do with the Wii U if it were my choice.

Then there's the obvious. Mario Kart, Smash Bros., and to a lesser extent Tropical Freeze. Nintendo knows what its money makers are, and it's leaning on them heavily during the Wii U's second year. Alone I don't think they'll have all the pull in the world, but as games like that accumulate in the library in concert with more niche stuff like Wonderful 101, Bayonetta, Pikmin, etc. I think more hitherto ambivalent enthusiasts will start seeing Wii U as a viable secondary platform. Sometimes it only takes a few "must-haves", but a library of unique supporting software definitely helps.

We all know exactly why.
Because Sony is "HORDECORE!"
While Nintendo is "KIDDAH!"

Oh, but please, Nintendo, put your games on every other system available. But heaven forbid you support your own system.

 

[Apophis2036]

Yeah, it's really sad how it took less than 5 minutes to go digging through my bookmarks folder to find those posts that you made. Don't worry though, there are plenty more where that came from, and not just from you. Someday, I'll make a thread and post all of them.

You bookmark people's posts from a videogame forum :O ?...

Just to give you a bigger laugh I predicted WiiU would sell 10 million units before PS4 and Xbone launched , it was however before the name, launch games and price point were revealed though (I was thinking 'Wii2' as the name + 3D Mario, Starfox, Pikmin and F Zero as launch games and a $249 pricepoint ).

Oh it doesn't bother me, I'm just really glad you were wrong. You were not (are not) the only person claiming consoles are dying.

That being said, if one makes a prediction on the internet, one shouldn't be surprised when it comes to bite them in the arse when it turns out they were way wrong. That's why you won't see me making them.

I'm glad I was wrong aswell, I bought PS4 on day one and I love it, I just personally didn't think either would get much past 3 million in their first three months. By the looks of it Sony will have sold over 5 million PS4's by the end of Jan though so I was way out but hey, I'm not ashamed to admit I was wrong, it was after all only a guess from an average fan .

 

[mrancier]

Nintendo should work on new hardware. At this point, the only thing that could help them, IM(uneducated and inexperienced)O, is leapfrogging the competition. Pair that with a Crushingly strong first party library, and some investment in Dev relations and tools, robust online infrastructure, and they could turn around. They make really great software, but insist on pairing it(sorry) with relatively underpowered hardware to maximize profit(?). They should go back to being a games company, and not just the 'insert family board game company here' of video games. Going software only doesn't seem necessary yet. They have enough cash to regroup and relaunch.

 

[Corronchilejano]

The same place they've been going for 20 years. Home console irrelevance.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wii

Sales
Main article: Wii sales
As of September 30, 2013, the Wii has sold 100.30 million consoles worldwide.[45]

Spoiler

Seriously though, they'll probably sell a Gamepadless system in a few months.

 

[MercuryLS]

The Xbone is far from sold out...

I don't really get why I'm being attacked, I made a prediction several months ago, I was wrong and I have admitted it. Everyone knew PS4 and Xbone would sell really well in the first two months, the question was how many they would sell after Jan when the market for consoles and the exclusive games dry up. WiiU itself had a very good start but soon crashed and burned in late Jan, there is nothing to say the same won't happen to consoles that are $50 and $150 more expensive not counting another $50 to play online.

You think exclusives really push that many systems? All of the top sellers for PS4 and Xbox One are multi plats with better visuals and performance. Wii U didn't have one iota of the anticipation that Sony and MS had for their new consoles. There is no comparison.

People aren't idiots, they buy these consoles because it's an investment in 6-7 years of great games. Wii U struggled because it's a poor investment as a main console, everyone with a functioning brain could see that. Even with a soft release schedule for PS4/Xbox One I'm willing to bet that their momentum (well at least PS4) will be strong in early 2014 and nowhere near as bad as Wii U did in early 2013.

People buy these consoles for the next few years, not just for what's out right now or the next 1-2 months. The conversation most people have is PS4 or Xbox One. Wii U doesn't enter the conversation, hell most people don't even know what it is. You keep trying to say that because the Wii U had soft sales that it will happen to PS4 and Xbox One. It ain't going to happen, there is no comparison here.

 

[Mihael Mello Keehl]

Why is it exactly that Sony can go entire generations bathed in red ink and you wont see the sheer number of alarmist threads like this that Nintendo typically gets in a month on GAF? You know, chalkboard meme and Amirox meltdown not withstanding. Not that Nintendo is beyond cold hard analysis, but these threads always seem to gravitate towards the same hackneyed talking points about how the only way for Nintendo to move forward is to fire Iwata and scrap a console that's been out for one year, blah blah, blah, blah, blah. It's hard to take anything the OP says seriously after that.

Another question that begs to be asked is why Wii and DS are considered anomalous luck, but when a system doesn't burst out of the gate on fire all the sudden Iwata is completely incompetent and out of touch? Imagine if shareholders were gaffers, particularly after the middling launch of the 3DS. I have my own questions about Nintendo's trajectory, but it's preposterous to write off Iwata's business acumen, which had led to some of the most profitable systems in Nintendo's history. Guess that doesn't matter in an industry with a memory the size of a goldfish. What have you done for me lately, right?

I'm starting to wonder when this topic will get its own community thread, because it seems to pop up 10 times a week in various thinly veiled ways. I keep thinking one day I'll click and be welcomed to some brilliant new break down of the state of Nintendo, but the crux of the conversation always seems to revolve around parroting the same wildly reductive arguments. Here's a reminder- Nintendo is already restructuring. It's also apparent that Wii U software took a hit while resources were dedicated to bolstering the 3DS, which is now stabilized. As insular as Nintendo's decisions are in some regards I don't personally believe that they operate in a complete vacuum like a lot of people seem to. Wii U has plenty of untapped potential, and not just in an abstract pie in the sky way, but you can't just right a ship overnight. Development takes time. It remains to be seen what seeds Nintendo has planted, but already there's a few signs of things to come.

For the most part I think it's accepted that 3rd party support is never going to blossom outside of a handful of cool niche games every now and then. If the insane growth of the Wii userbase couldn't get companies to pull their heads out of their asses and produce something better than shit ports and C quality spin-offs there's no reason to suspect they'll leap from their seats to do Wii U exclusives that matter. Imo Nintendo should start money hatting promising young indies. Tell the old guard to fuck off unless they bring the goods, and get fresh talent locked by providing them with an opportunity to grow and flourish on the platform. I also think Nintendo should make sweetheart deals with companies like Capcom and Konami to do comparatively modest retro revivals, retail, not digital. Let the other companies chase after the crowd that's more wowed by ornate presentation than the fundamental joy of interaction. Put the focus on well paced pick up and play experiences and tickle that nostalgia bone with cool franchises that have sat dormant. Differentiate yourself from your competitors arms race. That's what I'd do with the Wii U if it were my choice.

Then there's the obvious. Mario Kart, Smash Bros., and to a lesser extent Tropical Freeze. Nintendo knows what its money makers are, and it's leaning on them heavily during the Wii U's second year. Alone I don't think they'll have all the pull in the world, but as games like that accumulate in the library in concert with more niche stuff like Wonderful 101, Bayonetta, Pikmin, etc. I think more hitherto ambivalent enthusiasts will start seeing Wii U as a viable secondary platform. Sometimes it only takes a few "must-haves", but a library of unique supporting software definitely helps.

Your posts are always on point. Probably gonna be ignored cause its overflowing with realness. People cant argue real shit they get frustrated end up looking stupid.

 

[freezamite]

I don't see them making many sensible changes now after some of the outrageously stupid decisions they've made these last couple of years.
They'll stick with the Wii U, Reggie will say "Well we've got unique experiences, Geoff" in the interviews in further desperate attempts to block outside noise without curling up going "LALALALALALALALALALALALALA", and they'll make a sub 720p dual screen handheld with Wii U performance in late 2016, without smartphone capabilities, not running iOS or Android, which they'll price too high again and, again, say "We're making nice profits off of this, please pretend you didn't hear that ;D".

Let's see what are your fantastic changes....

Things Nintendo should've done in 2013 (Or should do now):
- Release a Wii U without a GamePad, Pro Controller as standard. And this is how they would kill their console. Having a mini-ps4 it's not a good idea if you want to sell... Furthermore, the GamePad is a NEAT evolution, with analogue triggers it would be the best controller imaginable, without them it's simply the best controller except for when you want to play racing simulators
- Redesign the OS UI so that it doesn't require said GamePad. (And patches allowing Pro Controller inputs to be seen as GamePad inputs, for GamePad only titles) The same as above.
- Tablet app (Android/iOS/W8) for games that require touch (eg. ZombiU).And destroy the whole experience because of unsustained latency that can't go higher than 30fps with tons of unwanted compression artifacts.
- $199 With NSMB collection (Wii + U + Luigi DLC), level designer software available on Google Play and App Store for $30.Do you think the gamepad costs them $100?
- Change the name of the Wii U.
- Change the design of the Wii U (Don't we all remember "Super Nintendo inspired design"?) Those are not the problems of this system.
- HDD instead of SSD, user replaceable 2.5" Now they're user replaceable through USB 2.0
- Official GameCube BC through Wii channel, release a 4-port USB dongle (And allow PC/CC/CCP controllers, naturally) Yeah, I'm sure that there are at least 20 million of buyers waiting for the GC BC... come on!.
- Smaller Mario Kart 8 pre-release (1+1 (Retro/New) cups) shipped with every unit after E3, free.
- Bribe Rockstar into releasing GTA V on the Wii U.

What they should do in 2014:
- Kill the Wii U. There are fewer than 5.000.000 owners, c'mon people, make sense.

None of those points will become reality, btw.

To make sense is almost to do the opposite you've said O_O
They have a good position in terms of brand recognition, and killing the WiiU only would translate into loosing 5 million of their most loyal fans, and also to give an impression of a weak company.
Who would buy their next console if they killed the WiiU?

Things that they should've done in 2011:
Increase their development teams in order to be able to release more exclusive games.
Even when developer's will is something of utmost importance in this industry, they should have come with a more varied line-up. They have a fuck ton of platforming games on the system. Instead of DKTF a Metroid would've been much better, or even to leave SM3D World for after MK8 and SSB were launched, launching MK8 this winter and leaving SSB for when MK8 will launch now.

Of course, all of that is much easier to say than to do.

Things that they should do from now on:
Strengthen their first party offer. 3rd parties are something Nintendo can't rely on, so they have to simply continue with their philosophy but expanding their market.
They have the engines, the tools and the console. They should continue with their indie policy, and strengthen much more their western studios.
I'm not asking them to sacrifice their way of making games, but to adapt it to other genres like FPS or TPS at least.
They could also build more shared projects with some key 3rd parties in some key genres if they can't expand fast enough.

Interesting that you feel the only thing keeping Nintendo a gameplay centric studio is having their own hardware alongside software, and that the designers, directors, and producers that have been with the company for years, producing the games you assuredly know and love, are so weak willed and insecure about their design and company philosophies that they'd totally collapse and lose their way without the Nintendo hardware safety net.

I can see it now: Shigeru Miyamoto, legendary developer, without a Nintendo home console to guide him, staring at a blank design document page, unable to think beyond "how deep can our tessellation go".

We are speaking of a scenario where their failure as a company have forced them to ditch the console market and go third party. In that case, what makes you think that these people will still be on board?
The "gameplay first" philosophy is something that starts with the hardware and ends with the software. It's a company philosophy. Once this philosophy is gone, why would they stick with the same design principles may I ask?

It's not that Miyamoto will start thinking of games as technological showpieces, it's just that this industry won't have a place for someone like Miyamoto as a game designer any more.
I mean, have you seen all the PR and Marketing bullshit of most of the games that will launch for PS4 or Xbox One? The most hyped games are just a bunch of graphical and technical promises, with gameplay completely limited to the already-known formulas and nothing interesting in terms of level design.

I was banned from this forums in a thread about Quantum Break because I was criticizing how Remedy only spoke about graphics and plot and it was getting so much hype only for it, and as much as I hate this, this is this industry's reality at least here in the west (and that's more than 80% of the market). Innovative level design not only it's not something nearly anyone cares, in fact will probably be something negative because it will distract the crowd from what's really important, graphics and plot.