gundamkyoukai
Member
Halo is bigger than both FF and Zelda if we go by sales .
Halo main line games sell around 9 to 10 million each , FF and Zelda have not been near there for years .
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NPD Sales Results for March 2014 [Up4: FFX/X-2 HD]
- Thread starter Nirolak
- Start date
Halo is bigger than both FF and Zelda if we go by sales .
Halo main line games sell around 9 to 10 million each , FF and Zelda have not been near there for years .
Pound_lb003
Member
That's one of the things that are being heavily overblown about the PS4 and Xbox One. There are some games where I think the differences are less flattering to the Xbox One than normal (MGS GZ, even though it looked better than I thought it would once I saw it running on an xbox one), but by and large, even with resolution differences, I'm not seeing any earth shattering graphical differences between Xbox One and PS4 titles. The PS4 gets superior multi-plats, but that doesn't exactly mean what I think some people think it does. These two systems are remarkably close to one another, even though the clear edge will always go in favor of the PS4's stronger hardware. But the point is we aren't exactly slumming over here on the Xbox One. It's a pretty capable system also.
We're getting the same exact game as what the PS4 is getting, with pretty much all or most of the same high quality art assets and graphical features enabled. I mean, people can crawl all over ground textures, bumps in the ground, or magnify an image 5 times to scrutinize each pixel, but if it isn't something that truly jumps out at me without looking too hard, then it doesn't matter to me. PS4 will commonly display superior AA or a higher native resolution, and that's fine. I knew when I got the system I wasn't likely to be on the receiving end of the better multi-plats. I understand and accept that. Many more considerations factored into my decision. So, this is kinda the same stuff any console gamer has seen and grown accustomed to now for years, except now instead of the PC or the 360, people are now constantly taking the chance to tell us about ps4 having superior multi-plats, and that's great for PS4 owners. But we'll be right there with you enjoying the same great looking games on our own next gen console.
Yes, dem "working man's graphics". I went from getting both at launch to not being able to get either at launch, and I only recently got my xbox one last month. PS4 is more likely to be around August or September at the soonest for me. My biggest concern of all for a multi-plat game has always been watch dogs, because I'm really excited about that game. I hope it's solid on the Xbox One, because it's what I'll have to get it on for now. I have a powerful PC, but I prefer to play on my console. Only see myself getting it for PC if I'm really dissatisfied with how it turns out on Xbox One.
With regards to the price discussion, I think people are underestimating the Xbox One and overestimating the PS4 a little bit there. I've said from the get go I thought the PS4's biggest advantage was price. I don't believe resolution or specs are what's making the difference in the sales between the two systems. I think it's all heavily leaning on the price. I believed prior to launch that an Xbox One with Kinect at $399 would outsell the PS4 on an almost consistent basis, and I believe it still. I think the fact that the Xbox One is even selling as good as it is at $500 supports my suspicions. An Xbox One at $399 with no Kinect would change nothing for the Xbox One, I feel. In fact, I believe the PS4 would be beating the Xbox One even more convincingly without Kinect being in the picture, even at a $399 pricepoint. Kinect genuinely makes having the Xbox One a much better experience overall, which is why I think Microsoft getting rid of it, or making it an option, would be a terrible idea. That may sound nuts to some of you, but I honestly can't imagine the system without Kinect at this point.
And to get out in front of the criticism (I'm sure there's plenty to pick at in this post
Having taken the time to read this post, it's really nice to see I was rewarded with discovering this thread has not gone to shit at all.
Well said.
I owned a PS3 for the majority of the generation last gen, and played all the sub-par ports. But the reality is, in a vacuum they still looked fucking awesome. I was still enamored with the world of Red Dead Redemption despite it's '500 and something p' resolution.
And while I don't agree with the Kinect point, I can totally understand it. And I agree they'd be stupid to take it out, even if it's Mattrick's baby, as everyone is so keen to point out. It's be such a short sighted move. And for what it's worth I don't think it's financially viable for the company to write Kinect off either - certainly not for the foreseeable future.
EDIT:
With the investment they've made in Kinect it's got nothing to do with having the camera in the box. If they take Kinect out and drop to $399, it'll be the same financial damage as dropping the Xbox One (with Kinect) to $399. So it's staying for the foreseeable future.
panda-zebra
Member
But which was the fastest growing thread? There's a thread's posts to views ratio to consider - there is no way some of those old threads are giving up a 50% increase to NPD March 2014.
/Hrybello
If anything, the results of march are going to make for a real interesting april NPD.
This was supposed to be Xbox biggest month of the year. Non-stop deals and free game pack-ins, the release of their biggest title of the year with a hype/marketing train that was astronomical in size. But still they were not able to surpass the competition in the crucial market where they are strongest.
The hype for Titanfall has all but died off completely now, next month's NPD could very well see the Xbox One bottoming out hard.
What's next on the horizon in terms of system sellers?
I still think it's funny that people are positioning Sunset Overdrive as a big tentpole AAA release at all, purely because it's exclusive.
It's insomniac. They make rather decent games but they aren't fit for a role like this. It'll be a boon for Xbox One owners if it turns out great, but it'll hardly be a title they'll be able to go "Head-to-head" with anyone with.
People are putting a lot on Insomniac's shoulders and at some point they probably just can't deliver on these expectations.
But who knows, Insomniac might just do the impossible.
This was supposed to be Xbox biggest month of the year. Non-stop deals and free game pack-ins, the release of their biggest title of the year with a hype/marketing train that was astronomical in size. But still they were not able to surpass the competition in the crucial market where they are strongest.
The hype for Titanfall has all but died off completely now, next month's NPD could very well see the Xbox One bottoming out hard.
What's next on the horizon in terms of system sellers?
I still think it's funny that people are positioning Sunset Overdrive as a big tentpole AAA release at all, purely because it's exclusive.
It's insomniac. They make rather decent games but they aren't fit for a role like this. It'll be a boon for Xbox One owners if it turns out great, but it'll hardly be a title they'll be able to go "Head-to-head" with anyone with.
People are putting a lot on Insomniac's shoulders and at some point they probably just can't deliver on these expectations.
But who knows, Insomniac might just do the impossible.
$100 price cut means forgoing a billion dollars of revenue, and eating a big loss for the year. It's not clear how big the new managements appetite for losses in the gaming division is. Obviously they can afford to do it, but whether they'll choose to is an open question.
MrCookiepants
Member
they will work...
for years...
on cracking the thing...
and if it's cracked...
it'll be like every other console in existence...
Graphics Horse
Member
Opinions differ on that one. I think it's inevitable at some point.
Yes, I think they can. I was just replying to SenjutsuSage's question. He wants them to do 399 with Kinect.
Wickerbasket
Member
I hope not, because Halo doesn't even make the top 10 list.
Kazuma Kiryu
Member
It's incredible how the success of the 360 is mainly due to the USA.
ThoughtsOfSpeaking
Banned
Thank you.
I also find it ironic that people are the first to trumpet Microsoft's ability to update their consoles software seem to forger this when arguing against a Kinectless SKU.
All the Xbox One needs is a couple firmware updates to bring controller navigation in line with the 360. There is no intrinsic hardware reason why the Kinect has to stay integrated to the system. Its purely a firmware issue and firmware can be changed.
Likewise Voice commands should not disappear just because Kinect is not plugged in. There is no reason why you shouldn't be able to perform 95% of the same navigation with a headset.
So outside the often lauded "when I walk into a room I can turn my console on with no hands" Which actually would probably wear thin after a month, there is no reason to keep the Kinect except for the IR blaster.
Not everyone has their console hooked up to a massive audio set up and The Xbox should be able to turn on the TV anyway with the IR blaster via HDMI-CEC.
Honestly, "as is" The Xbox one could be sold without Kinect without a huge loss of functionality, especially If you have a smartglass device. But to suggest that everyone must have the Kinect because you like it is silly and ignorant.
There is zero disadvantage in giving people a choice.
The bolded part is true. The NPD results of March indicate that price-parity with the PS4 in the US will not favor the XB1. This means that Microsoft will either have to:
a) Undercut the PS4 by $100 or more.
b) Start writing significantly larger checks to publishers.
Option (a) isn't the best strategy, because if Sony feels that a $299 XB1 poses a significant threat to the PS4 then they will also cut the PS4's price - making Microsoft's efforts a waste of money.
Option (b) is a better strategy, but it's not sustainable in the long-run. Given the global success of the PS4, publishers are going to demand a very high compensation for only releasing their software on the XB1. It's going to be tough for Microsoft's entertainment division to justify spending (repeatedly) $20 million+ on products they don't own or create.
An even bigger problem for Microsoft is that all major third-party titles for the year (COD, Destiny, Watch_Dogs, Assassins Creed) are coming to the PS4, and half of those titles have already been positioned as PlayStation titles. It's also fair to assume that the majority of those titles are going to offer some sort of performance advantage on the PS4, so Microsoft will have to fight both public perception and performance realities in order to get people to buy the XB1 version of those products.
It's a tough road ahead for Microsoft. Their home territory is starting to look like PlayStationland, and EU+JP consumers are going to need some really really compelling reasons to buy an XB1 over a PS4. The good news for Microsoft is that the generation is just starting, so while the XB1's retail performance is looking shaky, there's still a lot of time to turn things around. The bad news for Microsoft is that the slow and unresponsive Sony no longer seems to exist, so the competition won't just sit there and let things play out.
Savantcore
Unconfirmed Member
I think dropping the Kinect would rid the One of any personality and defining features. The only problem with it, in my opinion of course, is that the voice integration was a solution to a problem that didn't exist.
Kinect 1.0 sold unbelievably well, so there's obviously a demand for something different, but without anything a bit more substantial than Kinect Sports it's just a $100 gimmick that their consumer has to put up with instead of opting in to. A really good, original app that the PS4 simply can't do would benefit the console more than just cutting it loose.
Kinect 1.0 sold unbelievably well, so there's obviously a demand for something different, but without anything a bit more substantial than Kinect Sports it's just a $100 gimmick that their consumer has to put up with instead of opting in to. A really good, original app that the PS4 simply can't do would benefit the console more than just cutting it loose.
I want them to do 99 with kinect too.
Microsoft isn't stupid though. Achieving price parity with the PS4 is not going to make it sell more than the PS4 out of the blue.
It's getting kind of obvious that the PS4 sees the most demand and has the largest uptake among gaming crowds. This trend is very hard to change at this point. The early adopters usually set the trend for the masses.
If most people owned PS4's, that means most people on the fence will be leaning towards one because of the ability to play with friends and positive word of mouth.
Microsoft would be in deep shit if they cut 100$ off every unit and still fail to surpass the PS4. They aren't going to be pleased to eat massive losses like that for little gain in terms of marketshare.
I think that if their projections state that keeping it at 499 is more profitable with less sales, then they'll refrain from dropping the price.
They are in this to make money, not beat Sony.
TheRagnCajun
Member
I have the feeling that next month is going to be ugly for xbone. If the chart from sales GAF is true it looks to me like MS has stuffed the channels to get a good 'sold to retail' number for March. There is about 900k on the shelf. Obviously they have to slow down at some point to the rate people are actually buing them.
Pound_lb003
Member
Yeah, forgot about MLB.
It is looking like the PS4 has a tentpole release for the next couple of months. I dunno how TLoU will do, but since it's pretty new, I am guessing not too bad?
secondspace
Member
It's a good game to bundle in order to tempt 360 owners to switch.
Graphics Horse
Member
Technically they already were, just with a big surplus on the shelves. The number sold in the last 3 months will be very similar to the number shipped. But will they be able to keep selling ~1m per quarter or not? What happens with price will be a big factor, there's still a lot of unsold consoles without the Titanfall bundle which are supposed to be the same price.
How could MS "lose billion of revenue" by the end of the year by lowering price by 100$?
You have to sell 10 million consoles, that's hardly going to happen and even if it does, it's great news.
On the other hand, it will only get worse: Sony's VR and bunch of cool games are coming, they'll also stop being supply constrained at some point, and then what?
Why do they suddenly have to not lose money on console? 360 owners bought 2.5 games per year, that's what, 20$ per user for them? Plus subscription.
The only reason not to do it, might be that they are afraid of Sony lowering PS4 price (which people say is cheaper to manufacture) and there we go, the same situation, but MS loses more money this time.
And why is dropping kinect such a big deal? How many studios are developing ANYTHING for it?
You have to sell 10 million consoles, that's hardly going to happen and even if it does, it's great news.
On the other hand, it will only get worse: Sony's VR and bunch of cool games are coming, they'll also stop being supply constrained at some point, and then what?
Why do they suddenly have to not lose money on console? 360 owners bought 2.5 games per year, that's what, 20$ per user for them? Plus subscription.
The only reason not to do it, might be that they are afraid of Sony lowering PS4 price (which people say is cheaper to manufacture) and there we go, the same situation, but MS loses more money this time.
And why is dropping kinect such a big deal? How many studios are developing ANYTHING for it?
Graphics Horse
Member
My grandma doesn't have an Xbox One yet, how will I be able to Skype her if they remove Kinect?
Eh I think Watch_Dogs is still coming out on Xbox one, no? Despite what the marketing will want people to think.
There's also Bound by Flames in May for PS4. Something for RPG fans at least.
legacyzero
Banned
So is that a good number for FFX HD/ X-2 HD?
I think someone might be able to explain it better than me but I do recall someone saying that MS is locked into contract with manufacturers to produce and package xboxes and kinects at a certain rate for a certain timeframe. Apparently it would be too difficult for MS to look at one bad month and decide to downscale production of kinect on the fly and too costly to break said contract. Not sure if that would amount anywhere near a billion loss though.
Pound_lb003
Member
And this is why digital games should be released at retail. To push console sales.
Octodad was heavily associated and marketed with the PS4, and that's arriving this month. That could help sell consoles to the younger market.
I think it is a desaster, especially from a business/shareholder point of view. A company is supposed to enter a new business and take some losses first, accepting that maybe only the 3rd iteration of their product is finally successful.
Taking the special case of a game console there are certain things to be achieved by then:
- They should have build a strong brand name by now and not have it destroyed after the second iteration, where it actually was pretty strong. The need for immense marketing budgets to position the product against the competition should decrease with every iteration.
- They should have built a strong base of 1st party studios to avoid pushing insane amounts of money into exclusive deals. What they actually did is relying on exactly that while they rather lose studios or run them into the ground.
- They should by be able to build super effective hardware (still have fond memories of the Gamecube) that is cheap to produce, powerful and in the best case small (like without the need for a huge power brick). R&D costs should decrease and not turn into monstrosities like the drean amount stated for the controller development.
- In case of Microsoft, they should be #1 in their third generation, at least in the US. This position already achieved seems to be lost, it probably costs insane amounts of money to regain it, if it is even possible.
- Instead they still try to reach their goal not to leave the living room to Sony. They kinda succeeded. Sony sells their TV branch as that becomes an unprofitable business where companies desperately try to create new demand with more insane resolutions. All-in-One boxes have slowly vanished while everybodies living room get more and more decentralized.
Shareholders where already unhappy late last gen and showed their muscles already. Seeing this results and realizing what has not been achieved in more than 10 years I am sure we will hear of them again soon.
Yes, but at lower graphical fidelity, with less content, no marketing association and a PS hardware bundle. If people are moving to next gen for watchdogs, then it's clear which console the majority would go to.
Graphics Horse
Member
If they unbundled Kinect, they wouldn't stop making it, they wouldn't even stop bundling it, there would be a version without kinect, and kinect on sale as an accessory.
Have you seen Kinect for Windows v2 is coming out? It's basically Kinect 2, but with a different face plate.
Pound_lb003
Member
Isn't that the point? There's been a strategic marketing partnership there for the entirety of the PS4's existence.
Birgitte2004
Member
It is available online sure. You still can't just walk in to any store and buy one in person. It's getting there but supply still is not met.
pokeystaples
Banned
Totally spaced on Forza. Thanks.
I agree, but March was madness because you had two big exclusives with all the marketing and sales that come with that.
Arguing the unimportance of Halo is odd to me. People fucking love Halo. While it might not be where it was...it's still a big thing to a lot of people.
I mean...if people are using The Order or DriveClub, why not?
E3 is going to be reaaally interesting.
Speaking of Watchdogs bundles I don't see one announced for NA yet.
That's a shame, the uk one looks like it'll be a big seller as Watchdogs still seems to be getting a lot of attention, a lot of non-core gamers I speak to seem very interested.
They really don't need one at all, considering it's probably going to be full price anyway, like the InFamous: SS bundle was in the UK. Better off keeping it un-bundled, since people are always looking to buy 1 or 2 games when they pick up a new console.
OT: Does anyone know why Borderlands 2 GOTY edition is now #7 & #8 on the Amazon best sellers list? It's got a lot of content in the DLC packs, but it's $51, and ranked kind of high for a game that isn't brand new.
Graphics Horse
Member
I guess I was a bit irked by Kinect Sports 2 being dismissed because it's 'not head to head with competitor titles' while ignoring the xbox version of a multiplat in the next line. But I'll get over it.
Infamous second son bundle generally had a £10-15 saving as Infamous was £45-50 at launch and the bundle was generally £385, not a large saving, but not too bad, as long as they can keep the bundle and standalone available it shouldn't be a problem, though if they cannot keep the standalone in stock then that can cause a problem, but surely they can stock the standalone by the end of may.
Nightengale
Member
Hmm, looking back, that was a poor dismissal of Kinect Sports. That was wrong on my end.
Apologies. I've edited my original post, plus highlighting my errors.
You're right. I was blind-sided by the old mindset of how games like Kinect Sports exist to push the camera/hardware ( or in XB1's case, justify why it was bundled in the first place), and not so much the console itself. From a perspective of how games push console sales, Kinect Sports Rivals is as valid, and maybe even stronger than the individual respective games there on Sony's end for the month.
Pound_lb003
Member
I make the same mistake of not typing what I actually mean. Not being sarcastic at all by the way.
But I only read your post, not the quote in it - I am by no means agreeing with the guy you quoted. And I totally agree Kinect Sports could help out the Xbox One.
Still, I believe there's merit to the idea that Watch Dogs would be a boost to the PS4 more than the Xbox.
EDIT:
And apparently even 'the guy you quoted' doesn't necessarily agree with his post being fair.
What bizarro world is this, in which the biggest NPD thread is also producing some of the most adult conversation?
That's why I call it a lodestone. They cant throw it away, and yet people cant see the value that it adds to the product.
If they were going to drop Kinect which is highly unlikely, as you say too much invested in it even though they dont seem too have much to show for that investment (maybe they have to admit that money is burned, the damage is done and they arent getting it back, not every product is a winner no matter how hard you push it).
Anyway they wont get very far with just price parity with Sony, especially if they dont have Kinect. They have to drop their price lower than the PS4 maybe a hundred less but at least fifty dollars less. They can drop the price easier if they dont have Kinect maybe not now, but in a years time perhaps.
It's not so much that they need to do one for discounts, but more to do with encouraging brand association. Exclusive DLC is one step; packaging together is another to help engender that kind of thinking.
Sublyminal
Neo Member
Cutting the price to $299 admits defeat. Not only that but it would piss off the investors so badly, that it would force MS to sell off the xbox division. That division is still bleeding from the last two xbox's. And investors are getting pissed.
AnthonypUK
Member
Totally agree, The 360 was actually profitable, this would go back to the original Box scenario of making a huge loss on each console to get get marketshare , they'd be back to square one, theres now way they'll do that, they's get slaughtered by the investors.
They just need to accept where they're at world wide, and just slowly rebuild using the US as a base since they're going okay there. do essentially what sony did last gen. theres no quick fix here, slashing $200 of your asking price 6 months ago is too reactionary.
GC is not like xbox in US. Honestly I don't think something will save xone to the incoming decline. The only thing is cost less to the ps4. I don't see someone get an xone over a ps4 at the same price, it's not a good deal at all. I'm not saying cut price should be imminent but not even too much later because we have seen what is happened to the first xbox.
Pound_lb003
Member
I agree.
I remember thinking how redundant, useless and futile PS+ when it first started. I remember saying I'd never have any part of it. But the point is, companies can subvert you expectations of a product or service. One year all the press started paying attention at GamesCOM when Red Dead Redemption came to the service. I still didn't get it until about two years later, and now it's the industry standard. I now subscribe to PS+ (and not for MP games).
The same kind of turnaround could exist for Kinect if they're really committed. But I do feel like the whole forum/press mentality of 'get rid of Kinect to lower the price' is damaging. Kinect is capable of things that might interest me.
Anyway, I totally agree, it is a Lodestone and you're right that in the future dropping Kinect could help. But it's gonna drag them down one, maybe two years. Why not try to commit to it?
Road posted this a few pages back:
Do we know how the Wii sold in Jan and Feb?
Well, using 40k each, as a guess:
NPD total after 89 months:
PS2: 41.77m
Wii: 41.68m
Only now it has fallen behind the PS2 launch aligned.
(According to the NPD numbers I have, which may be outdated, but whatever...)
Wii has the best first 12 months of a home console, with 5.05 million (PS2 2nd best, 4.1m).
PS4 is at 2.91 million, with 7 months left, meaning it needs to average 306k per month to match the Wii. Not easy.
As discussed before, Xbox One owners buy more physical software, despite the more expensive hardware.
The XBO jumped ahead of the Wii U, 2 months after the PS4 did it:
