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[Toki767]

THIS. THIS FUCKING RIGHT HERE. This is EXACTLY what I am saying. They both did bad. The only issue I have is, some warriors are some how turning Sony's bad into the following.

1). With only Uncharted remaster, Xbox only did slightly more. So in a way Sony won.
2). Consumers are waiting for Nov bundles. Thats why its low. But not sure why this wouldn't apply for Xbox but sure lol
3). Xbox did price drop and no one bought XBox One either (not sure what this has to do with anything here lmao)

I think we can all agree that everyone did bad this month.

1) No one's saying Sony won. Just that Microsoft barely won.
2) Are you seriously thinking that the Xbox bundles (Tomb Raider?) compares to the PS4 bundles (COD and Battlefront) releasing in November?
3) I think a $50 price drop is basically just way too little (for Xbox One and PS4), especially this close to Black Friday. They should've dropped to $300, especially if they're willing to go that low on Black Friday anyway.

 

[AP90]

Throwing out all the sales numbers:

Halo 5 has a 10% attach.

That is a catastrophic number for a first-party flagship title and will probably result in leadership changes @ 343i if it holds.

10% attach rate....but Bethesda and Treyarch released there top games within the same 2 week period.

I'd say that's not bad considering those 2 games are heavy hitters. (And RotTR comes into play a bit as well)

Now if those two games were not to release till late Nov and the attach wad 10%, then id consider that bad.

If halo 5 released during January, I bet the attach rate would be higher IMO as no heavy hitters are releasing.

 

[AmaterasuOni]

Don't you mean attach rate for five days of sales?

Yes, like I said in my second post. Halo will sell loads on BF and holidays.

 

[RedAssedApe]

probably won't make up for the dip but i wonder if we see this in the US as well:

"We seem to experience the same sales curve as [Assassin's Creed 4: Black Flag]," added Ubisoft boss Yves Guillemot. "Versus Unity, Syndicate was down in the first week but nicely outperformed it in its second week as it benefitted from positive word of mouth."

Then again its Crossing Ed...I mean Yves talking here. jk

For the record I enjoyed Syndicate

 

[OEM]

Who said anything about it not applying to X1? The PS4 just had a price drop and the numbers dropped from last year. That is why the focus is on this month and whether October fell as a result of November significantly increasing. Who knows, we shall see.

here.

Should games be pluralized?? I have much better alternative hypotheses.

- SCEA not advertising the price cut aggressively enough
- Consumers were waiting for BO3 and Battlefront bundles
- Consumers were waiting for holiday deals, in general

I think we can all agree that everyone did bad this month.

1) No one's saying Sony won. Just that Microsoft barely won.
2) Are you seriously thinking that the Xbox bundles (Tomb Raider?) compares to the PS4 bundles (COD and Battlefront) releasing in November?
3) I think a $50 price drop is basically just way too little (for Xbox One and PS4), especially this close to Black Friday. They should've dropped to $300, especially if they're willing to go that low on Black Friday anyway.

Oh absolutely not. But with the great TTR reviews, those cheap bundles with free COD and BF on top of that Fallout 4 bundles. It will do great. Not sure why most of you think BF and COD will only be big on PS4. I am sure even Destiny sold great on Xbox One despite having it attached to Playstation brand SINCE reveal.

 

[Sydle]

Yeah, Halo 5 tells the story of Xbone. Xbox is Halo, Halo is Xbox. You can see how healthy the console is by checking out how mainline Halo sales go.

I don't think that's entirely true. I thought GAF was pretty much in agreement that third-party games were the most popular games. I'm pretty certain COD, for example, took over Halo in terms of most played online Xbox Live game ages ago.

The first place third-party sales platform is taken, but that doesn't mean Xbox can't be a healthy platform for third-party and first-party sales. Better to get a full picture of install base, game sales, and live users and see how the platform is trending in those regards.

The question isn't about Xbox becoming number one over all. It's how well are Xbox and Halo doing in their efforts to win back consumer hearts and minds after several big missteps. Are we seeing a recovery, or are we seeing it flatline and go the Wii U route? It will be interesting to see if Halo 5 has legs, or if Xbox One sells more this holiday season than it did last season.

 

[The Mad Draklor]

THIS. THIS FUCKING RIGHT HERE. This is EXACTLY what I am saying. They both did bad. The only issue I have is, some warriors are some how turning Sony's bad into the following.

1). With only Uncharted remaster, Xbox only did slightly more. So in a way Sony won.
2). Consumers are waiting for Nov bundles. Thats why its low. But not sure why this wouldn't apply for Xbox but sure lol
3). Xbox did price drop and no one bought XBox One either (not sure what this has to do with anything here)

1.) Name and quote those people who said that. I surely didn't...
2.) Who said that Nov bundles will not apply to the XBO? Or are you saying that the Fallout 4 and Tomb Raider bundles will sell as well as the BO3 and Battlefront bundles?
3.) You might want to lay off on the crazy pills.

here.

Where in my post does it say that bundles will not apply to the XBO?

3) I think a $50 price drop is basically just way too little (for Xbox One and PS4), especially this close to Black Friday. They should've dropped to $300, especially if they're willing to go that low on Black Friday anyway.

Also, possible. Last holiday season, MS didn't just cut the price by $50. They also added two games, one of which was brand new.

 

[Interficium]

Don't you mean attach rate for five days of sales?

AAA game sales are super-heavily front-loaded. People on GAF of all places should know this.

You can't hand-wave the first week sales away with "it was just the first week," a typical AAA title will experience around a 75% drop in sales week two.

 

[CosmicQueso]

that's not bad considering those 2 games are heavy hitters.

I thought only KOEI released heavy hitters?

Spoiler

old joke

 

[AmaterasuOni]

I don't think that's entirely true. I thought GAF was pretty much in agreement that third-party games were the most popular games. I'm pretty certain COD, for example, took over Halo in terms of most played online Xbox Live game ages ago.

I've been saying the same thing for few years now. Exclusives are not selling the consoles anymore, BUT there are exceptions like Halo, Gran Turismo and I'd guess Naughty Dog games. You can tell a lot from the sales of these few exclusives.

The first place third-party sales platform is taken, but that doesn't mean Xbox can't be a healthy platform for third-party and first-party sales. Better to get a full picture of install base, game sales, and live users and see how the platform is trending in those regards.

True. But are the 3rd parties selling that well on Xbox?

The question isn't about Xbox becoming number one over all. It's how well are Xbox and Halo doing in their efforts to win back consumer hearts and minds after several big missteps. It will be interesting to see if Halo 5 has legs, or if Xbox One sells more this holiday season than it did last season.

Agreed. I'm really interested to see how Halo has sold after the holidays.

 

[Rajang]

So does this mean Xbox is going start beating PS4 and win? When I see Xbox beating PlayStation it literally makes me sick to my stomach. I heard that MS won October and I was so down that I didn't get out of my bed for hours. Sony please just win. Please!

Hahahahaha.

 

[Ihyll]

Destiny sold 500+k ps4's last October

Halo 5 the flagship Xbox title, the system seller, one of the biggest titles in Gaming managed to only move 300k Xbox systems.

 

[Mpl90]

I thought only KOEI released heavy hitters?

Spoiler

old joke

Oh, well, let's try it.

A small hint for Dragon Quest Heroes sales, speaking of KOEI?

 

[N.Domixis]

Destiny sold 500+k ps4's last October

Halo 5 the flagship Xbox title, the system seller, one of the biggest titles in Gaming managed to only move 300k Xbox systems.

Most halo fans already had xbox theory sounds possible

 

[HokieJoe]

Overall economic indicators are down right now; and analysts are questioning expectations for the Christmas holidays. Plus, with consumer purchase expectations not pegging the meter, I'm not sure why anyone would be surprised about a $499 Halo bundle not selling well. I'm not making any judgments about the standalone game's sales, but I'd reserve judgment for all platforms until the holidays are over. People are squeezing pennies and looking for the best deals which means they're waiting for the inevitable holiday sales.

 

[OEM]

1.) Name and quote those people who said that. I surely didn't...
2.) Who said that Nov bundles will not apply to the XBO? Or are you saying that the Fallout 4 and Tomb Raider bundles will sell as well as the BO3 and Battlefront bundles?
3.) You might want to lay off on the crazy pills.

1).

Lets see this from a different perspective.
At same price for both consoles Sony just needed a Remaster to almost equal MS biggest franchise launch.

This "victory" is bittersweet. Most people wouldn't call this a victory at all.

2).

Where in my post does it say that bundles will not apply to the XBO?

You did not specifically said that, but your post sure did implied that. You listed the points of theory why PS4 sales weren't high. And I said that point can also apply to Xbox.

3). Why you telling me to lay down? Talk to this guy.

I guess you forgot about that time Microsoft announced they were doing a price drop the following month and like no one bought a Xbox one that month

before this gets out of hands. let me again clarify one thing.

Halo 5 sales disappointed, XBox and Playstation sales disappointed. I am not spinning anything. I am just answering to people who are trying to spin Sony's loss and downplaying Xbox. They all did bad this month.

 

[Sydle]

I've been saying the same thing for few years now. Exclusives are not selling the consoles anymore, BUT there are exceptions like Halo, Gran Turismo and I'd guess Naughty Dog games. You can tell a lot from the sales of these few exclusives.



True. But are the 3rd parties selling that well on Xbox?



Agreed. I'm really interested to see how Halo has sold after the holidays.

Didn't Zhuge lineup the Halo releases with NPD sales for 360 a couple of years ago and show that the effect has been small, especially compared to holiday sales? I may be remembering wrong, but I thought it showed after Halo 3 the effect was smaller and smaller.

 

[Purest 78]

I can't see X1 slightly beating ps4 in a halo release month As nothing but a win for Sony. Let's face it I'm not sure if MS will have another game the magnitude of the 1st current gen Halo. If Halo only pushed X1 to a 30k win. I don't see what other game that could do better.

 

[Bolivar687]

I can't see X1 slightly beating ps4 in a halo release month As nothing but a win for Sony. Let's face it I'm not sure if MS will have another game the magnitude of the 1st current gen Halo. If Halo only pushed X1 to a 30k win. I don't see what other game that could do better.

Here you go OEM.

 

[allan-bh]

I can't see X1 slightly beating ps4 in a halo release month As nothing but a win for Sony. Let's face it I'm not sure if MS will have another game the magnitude of the 1st current gen Halo. If Halo only pushed X1 to a 30k win. I don't see what other game that could do better.

You kidding right? PS4 is down YoY after a price drop. Very disappointing month for Sony.

 

[The Mad Draklor]

-SNIP-

1). This is what you said:"With only Uncharted remaster, Xbox only did slightly more. So in a way Sony won." None of those people you quoted said Sony "won".
2.) My comment did not imply that at all. I was giving hypotheses as to why the price cut didn't help the PS4 that much. Why would I randomly mention the XBO? Also, bundle may help the XBO in Nov, but will they to the same degree?
3.) I think that person was being sarcastic. Frankly, I'm still a bit confused after reading the comment a few times.

As for your concluding paragraph, you took offense to another person's criticisms of Aaron Greenburg's PR. That was where it all began and for some reason, you adopted the notion that "the warriors" are putting Sony on a pedestal while downplaying MS at every turn.

 

[ethomaz]

Halo 5 sales disappointed, XBox and Playstation sales disappointed. I am not spinning anything. I am just answering to people who are trying to spin Sony's loss and downplaying Xbox. They all did bad this month.

They all did bad but it was supposed to be de biggest Xbone month with the flagship release.

Context makes the situation way worst for MS than Sony.

Sony did a normal bad month.
MS did a bad month in its key release.

 

[ArchedThunder]

Man, 299 for both PS4 and Xbox One at most major retailers on Black Friday? This holiday is going to be fucking crazy. The fact that both MS and Sony are willing to go as low as 299 this Black Friday really makes me wonder what their plans are for their platforms next year, both seem very likely to get cheaper slim models next year. Next Black Friday the two consoles could be selling for 249 OR LESS depending on how much the probable slim models cost.

 

[Purest 78]

Destiny sold 500+k ps4's last October

Halo 5 the flagship Xbox title, the system seller, one of the biggest titles in Gaming managed to only move 300k Xbox systems.

Destiny,Batman,watchdogs moved more Units for sony, than I believe any exclusive on ps4 or X1. I believe only well Established exclusives move units. I'm actually really shocked by A halo month with such low numbers.

 

[FranXico]

Halo 5 sales disappointed, XBox and Playstation sales disappointed. I am not spinning anything. I am just answering to people who are trying to spin Sony's loss and downplaying Xbox. They all did bad this month.

I am sorry for misunderstanding your point of view. It's just that this post here:

Then how did they sold more than PS4 despite Sony's price drop? GAMES GAMES GAMES.

sounded an awful lot like the old tired "PS4 has no games" myth a lot of people who never got near one regurgitate. My bad.


Reading your other posts for context, I now get what you meant. Still, for clarity, I wasn't "shifting argument" or downplaying the Xbox NPD win (of course I expected Xbox to win on a Halo month), it was my first reply to you, based on the misunderstanding I just mentioned.

And please forgive my english, not a native speaker.

 

[Bgamer90]

I can't see X1 slightly beating ps4 in a halo release month As nothing but a win for Sony. Let's face it I'm not sure if MS will have another game the magnitude of the 1st current gen Halo. If Halo only pushed X1 to a 30k win. I don't see what other game that could do better.

Halo 5 did well but took a significant drop in comparison to previous games in series. The PS4 couldn't top Xbox One even with that being true on top of a $50 price drop.

How is this a win for them this month? We are still talking about the #1 console.

 

[allan-bh]

Sony did a normal bad month.

Drop the price and go down YoY is normal?

 

[ArchedThunder]

They all did bad but it was supposed to be de biggest Xbone month with the flagship release.

Context makes the situation way worst for MS than Sony.

Sony did a normal bad month.
MS did a bad month in its key release.

Yeah, Sony's is a bad month with no big first party releases the month before any of their big holiday bundles come out, MS's is a bad month with their biggest first party game. Xbox barely outsold PS4 when the only thing PS4 had to go up against Halo was an HD collection. November is going to be interesting because I'm sure many people were waiting for November bundles and Black Friday to pick up their current gen consoles and we have the crazy 299 deals on Black Friday for both systems.

 

[Arkham]

Man, 299 for both PS4 and Xbox One at most major retailers on Black Friday? This holiday is going to be fucking crazy. The fact that both MS and Sony are willing to go as low as 299 this Black Friday really makes me wonder what their plans are for their platforms next year...

Those prices are set by the retailer for Black Friday sales, not by MS or Sony. The MSRP is still just a suggested ceiling price.

 

[Primethius]

I think all the talk of winning the month is misplaced. If the PS4 can't make up numbers in November (massive in November + more to make up for October), then yea, this is an even more awful month then usual.

But given that the primary reasoning seems to be delayed sales as opposed to lost sales (remains to be seen), I don't think we can crown a victor for this month just yet.

 

[Conduit]

Halo 5 did well but took a significant drop in comparison to previous games in series. The PS4 couldn't top Xbox One even with that being true on top of a $50 price drop.

How is this a win for them this month? We are still talking about the #1 console.

Don't spin it like MS with 400$ mil. PR. PS4 price drop didn't do shit, Halo 5 didn't do shit ( sold bad compared to previous Halo )

 

[OEM]

1). This is what you said:"With only Uncharted remaster, Xbox only did slightly more. So in a way Sony won." None of those people you quoted said Sony "won".
2.) My comment did not imply that at all. I was giving hypotheses as to why the price cut didn't help the PS4 that much. Why would I randomly mention the XBO? Also, bundle may help the XBO in Nov, but will they to the same degree?
3.) I think that person was being sarcastic. Frankly, I'm still a bit confused after reading the comment a few times.

As for your concluding paragraph, you took offense to another person's criticisms of Aaron Greenburg's PR. That was where it all began and for some reason, you adopted the notion that "the warriors" are putting Sony on a pedestal while downplaying MS at every turn.

They all did bad but it was supposed to be de biggest Xbone month with the flagship release.

Context makes the situation way worst for MS than Sony.

Sony did a normal bad month.
MS did a bad month in its key release.

I am sorry for misunderstanding your point of view. It's just that this post here:



sounded an awful lot like the old tired "PS4 has no games" myth a lot of people who never got near one regurgitate. My bad.


Reading your other posts for context, I now get what you meant. Still, for clarity, I wasn't "shifting argument" or downplaying the Xbox NPD win (of course I expected Xbox to win on a Halo month), it was my first reply to you, based on the misunderstanding I just mentioned.

And please forgive my english, not a native speaker.

alright guys, I hear you all. lets end it here. Nov will indeed be very interesting lol

 

[The Mad Draklor]

They all did bad but it was supposed to be de biggest Xbone month with the flagship release.

Context makes the situation way worst for MS than Sony.

Sony did a normal bad month.
MS did a bad month in its key release.

They're both very bad. Whether one is worse than the other is debatable until November NPD comes out.

EDIT: Well, we already heard news from Abdiel that BO3 knocked the wind out of Halo 5's sales and Battlefront is looming, so it really comes down to how well the PS4 will do this month.

 

[Arkham]

Drop the price and go down YoY is normal?

In this case the BF and CoD bundles impair normality.

 

[Ricky_R]

Its amazing how <1million is disappointing for one game but amazing for another, like TLOU for example which sold as much and probably cost as much as H5 to make.

Hahah that's gotta be sarcasm.

 

[Tubie]

Halo 5 did well but took a significant drop in comparison to previous games in series. The PS4 couldn't top Xbox One even with that being true on top of a $50 price drop.

How is this a win for them this month? We are still talking about the #1 console.

I would get this whole PS4 lost but won thing if they both sold really well, but selling less than last year even with a price drop is horribly bad for Sony, regardless of what MS did.

 

[timlot]

Drop the price and go down YoY is normal?

Don't think that's ever happen. Uncharted bundle was $350 compared to a $500 Halo bundle.

 

[Bgamer90]

Don't spin it like MS with 400$ mil. PR. PS4 price drop didn't do shit, Halo 5 didn't do shit ( sold bad compared to previous Halo )

I'm not "spinning" anything. It seems like you are. Halo 5 DID do something as it obviously helped the Xbox One take the month (though barely).

This back and forth "my console under performed better!" is silly.

___________________________

I would get this whole PS4 lost but won thing if they both sold really well, but selling less than last year even with a price drop is horribly bad for Sony, regardless of what MS did.

Exactly. No one here expected these results a few days ago.

 

[Obliterator]

I'm not gonna declare doom on the PS4 numbers until we see November NPD. I think the syphon effect for the bundles may be the real thing

 

[Silent Chief]

AAA game sales are super-heavily front-loaded. People on GAF of all places should know this.

You can't hand-wave the first week sales away with "it was just the first week," a typical AAA title will experience around a 75% drop in sales week two.

It's different for bundled games. It still could do very well in November if it's the bundle people want for Xmas or in Black Friday sales.

 

[Shenmue]

Like I was saying from way back when this thread was starting, a $50 price drop wasn't going to do much. It's not breaking any new ground, just taking the PS4 down to the same price as the Xbox One. A new game's effect, especially of the magnitude of a Halo is always going to be bigger than just price parity. For Sony to win they would have had to go down to $329 or $299.

I think Sony may have been better leaving it at $399 and picking up some extra profit and waiting until they could actually do $299 (which seems to be what they're doing on BF).

 

[Purest 78]

You kidding right? PS4 is down YoY after a price drop. Very disappointing month for Sony.

MS dropped it's biggest bomb Yet had minimal impact. Well ateast I think a 30k win in a halo month is minimal.

Are sony happy with the numbers I would say no. Overall them losing by 30k in a Halo month is much better for sony, than being down YOY imo. Especially With holiday shopping This month,They can be up in a huge way YOY in November.

 

[Silent Chief]

Drop the price and go down YoY is normal?

Kinda, if everyone knows it will cost even less next month.

That's why MS did that weird unbelievable limited time price drop.

 

[hydrophilic attack]

Overall economic indicators are down right now; and analysts are questioning expectations for the Christmas holidays. Plus, with consumer purchase expectations not pegging the meter, I'm not sure why anyone would be surprised about a $499 Halo bundle not selling well. I'm not making any judgments about the standalone game's sales, but I'd reserve judgment for all platforms until the holidays are over. People are squeezing pennies and looking for the best deals which means they're waiting for the inevitable holiday sales.

1. USA just had one of the best job reports ever. While Europe and emerging markets are not doing great, North America, which NPD tracks, is doing great.

2. In these threads we discuss all the factors which decide whether a game does well or not. MS chose to put Halo into the $499 bundle. That was a bad choice, and thus the sales of XBO and Halo were bad.

3. MS conditioned everyone to wait for BF with the firesale they had last year and their heavy holiday season focus, so if that negatively affected Halo, that's their fault as well.

 

[ArchedThunder]

I'm not gonna declare doom on the PS4 numbers until we see November NPD. I think the syphon effect for the bundles may be the real thing

I think November's bundles and the looming Black Friday negatively affected both consoles in October. PS4 will almost definitely sell much better than it did last November and Xbox One could very well do the same, but even despite that I think that Halo should have boosted the Xbox's numbers much higher than it did (compared to September).

 

[AmaterasuOni]

Didn't Zhuge lineup the Halo releases with NPD sales for 360 a couple of years ago and show that the effect has been small, especially compared to holiday sales? I may be remembering wrong, but I thought it showed after Halo 3 the effect was smaller and smaller.

Oh, interesting. Then Halo 5 will most likely tell us only little and we have to wait for the annual CoD/BF franchises. And even those are skewed because of the marketing deals.

Well, screw it! Exclusives are not moving consoles anymore. Period.

 

[gundamkyoukai]

I would get this whole PS4 lost but won thing if they both sold really well, but selling less than last year even with a price drop is horribly bad for Sony, regardless of what MS did.

As some people say a $50 price drop don't seem to mean much before black friday .
Either way it going to be interesting if the reason for that is Nov or the price drop just to small.

 

[Sydle]

Oh, interesting. Then Halo 5 will most likely tell us only little and we have to wait for the annual CoD/BF franchises. And even those are skewed because of the marketing deals.

Well, screw it! Exclusives are not moving consoles anymore. Period.

I am so trying to find it. I just remember being surprised at the correlation, and I don't know if that said a lot about Halo or exclusives in general. There are a lot of different factors that go into market conditions so ultimately we're going off of hunches from our limited points of view.

 

[DangerMouse]

MS dropped it's biggest bomb Yet had minimal impact. Well ateast I think a 30k win in a halo month is minimal.

Are sony happy with the numbers I would say no. Overall them losing by 30k in a Halo month is much better for sony, than being down YOY imo. Especially With holiday shopping This month,They can be up in a huge way YOY in November.

Agreed.

 

[slavesnyder]

before this gets out of hands. let me again clarify one thing.

Halo 5 sales disappointed, XBox and Playstation sales disappointed. I am not spinning anything. I am just answering to people who are trying to spin Sony's loss and downplaying Xbox. They all did bad this month.

Hello OEM
It's classy that you stand by your opinion, even if I don't quite agree.
Both consoles did bad this month. Check.
Both consoles will go into the most important month now and have to (and will) sell a lot. Check.
I just think that the situation for Sony now is far, far better.
MS had their biggest release of the year with all the time in the world to build up preorders. And in the end it was the fabulous fucking nothing. Sony had the price drop and that did not do too much either. On the other hand price drops have no preorders... Disappointing for Sony, depressing for MS.
Next month will be Sony's big moment to harvest preorders for two huge bundled games. MS has fallout, that's terrific, but as our beloved indicator Amazon shows, it doesn't seem to set the world on fire. Fallout will sell amazingly well software-wise, but it will not push hardware and sell software nearly equally, despite marketing deal.
Black friday will be for both, but even here I give Sony the advantage, as both consoles will have the same price, but PS4 the bigger perceived value/discout. Battlefront is sold on both consoles, but I have the impression that in this case the marketing deal works far, far better.
THIS is why I take this month as a lost one for Xbox, even if it was formally a victory and honestly a draw. Because they could not win as huge as they should have to come through the playoffs unharmed.

So I predict a huge win next month. 200k difference at least. If you disagree I am open for a bet.