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NYT Editorial: Obama Administration "Has Lost All Credibility" (Re: NSA monitoring)

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Thought this was thread worthy this was a pretty powerful editorial as the NYT usually cheerleads for Obama. And it can put to end the whole "liberals only care if its republicans doing it". They don't pull any punches here though.

It also neatly summarizes why this is such a problem and the disappointment Obama has been. Its time for congress to take away power from the president for once because they clearly won't give it up by themselves.

http://www.nytimes.com/2013/06/07/opinion/president-obamas-dragnet.html?smid=tw-share

Within hours of the disclosure that the federal authorities routinely collect data on phone calls Americans make, regardless of whether they have any bearing on a counterterrorism investigation, the Obama administration issued the same platitude it has offered every time President Obama has been caught overreaching in the use of his powers: Terrorists are a real menace and you should just trust us to deal with them because we have internal mechanisms (that we are not going to tell you about) to make sure we do not violate your rights

Those reassurances have never been persuasive — whether on secret warrants to scoop up a news agency’s phone records or secret orders to kill an American suspected of terrorism — especially coming from a president who once promised transparency and accountability. The administration has now lost all credibility. Mr. Obama is proving the truism that the executive will use any power it is given and very likely abuse it. That is one reason we have long argued that the Patriot Act, enacted in the heat of fear after the 9/11 attacks by members of Congress who mostly had not even read it, was reckless in its assignment of unnecessary and overbroad surveillance powers.

Based on an article in The Guardian published Wednesday night, we now know the Federal Bureau of Investigation and the National Security Agency used the Patriot Act to obtain a secret warrant to compel Verizon’s business services division to turn over data on every single call that went through its system. We know that this particular order was a routine extension of surveillance that has been going on for years, and it seems very likely that it extends beyond Verizon’s business division. There is every reason to believe the federal government has been collecting every bit of information about every American’s phone calls except the words actually exchanged in those calls.

A senior administration official quoted in The Times offered the lame observation that the information does not include the name of any caller, as though there would be the slightest difficulty in matching numbers to names.He said the information “has been a critical tool in protecting the nation from terrorist threats,” because it allows the government “to discover whether known or suspected terrorists have been in contact with other persons who may be engaged in terrorist activities, particularly people located inside the United States.”

That is a vital goal, but how is it served by collecting everyone’s call data? The government can easily collect phone records (including the actual content of those calls) on “known or suspected terrorists” without logging every call made. In fact, the Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Act was expanded in 2008 for that very purpose. Essentially, the administration is saying that without any individual suspicion of wrongdoing, the government is allowed to know who Americans are calling every time they make a phone call, for how long they talk and from where.

This sort of tracking can reveal a lot of personal and intimate information about an individual. To casually permit this surveillance — with the American public having no idea that the executive branch is now exercising this power — fundamentally shifts power between the individual and the state, and repudiates constitutional principles governing search, seizure and privacy.

The defense of this practice offered by Senator Dianne Feinstein of California , who as chairman of the Senate Intelligence Committee is supposed to be preventing this sort of overreaching, was absurd. She said today that the authorities need this information in case someone might become a terrorist in the future. Senator Saxby Chambliss of Georgia, the vice chairman of the committee, said the surveillance has “proved meritorious, because we have gathered significant information on bad guys and only on bad guys over the years.”

But what assurance do we have of that, especially since Ms. Feinstein went on to say that she actually did not know how the data being collected was used?

The senior administration official quoted in The Times said the executive branch internally reviews surveillance programs to ensure that they “comply with the Constitution and laws of the United States and appropriately protect privacy and civil liberties.”
That’s no longer good enough. Mr. Obama clearly had no intention of revealing this eavesdropping, just as he would not have acknowledged the killing of Anwar al-Awlaki, an American citizen, had it not been reported in the press. Even then, it took him more than a year and a half to acknowledge the killing, and he is still keeping secret the protocol by which he makes such decisions.

We are not questioning the legality under the Patriot Act of the court order disclosed by The Guardian. But we strongly object to using that power in this manner. It is the very sort of thing against which Mr. Obama once railed, when he said in 2007 that the Bush administration’s surveillance policy “puts forward a false choice between the liberties we cherish and the security we provide.”

Two Democrats on the Senate Intelligence Committee, Senator Ron Wyden of Oregon and Senator Mark Udall of Colorado, have raised warnings about the government’s overbroad interpretation of its surveillance powers. “We believe most Americans would be stunned to learn the details of how these secret court opinions have interpreted Section 215 of the Patriot Act,” they wrote last year in a letter to Attorney General Eric Holder Jr. “As we see it, there is now a significant gap between what most Americans think the law allows and what the government secretly claims the law allows. This is a problem, because it is impossible to have an informed public debate about what the law should say when the public doesn’t know what its government thinks the law says.”

On Thursday,Representative Jim Sensenbrenner, Republican of Wisconsin, who introduced the Patriot Act in 2001, said that the National Security Agency overstepped its bounds by issuing a secret order to collect phone log records from millions of Americans “As the author of the Patriot Act, I am extremely troubled by the F.B.I.’s interpretation of this legislation,” he said in a statement. “While I believe the Patriot Act appropriately balanced national security concerns and civil rights, I have always worried about potential abuses.” He added: “Seizing phone records of millions of innocent people is excessive and un-American.”

This stunning use of the act shows, once again, why it needs to be sharply curtailed if not repealed.

Edit: Another left leaning site

BMGwIhkCQAE3sm4.png


Edit: if a mod sees this could they edit NTY to NYT?
 

Escape Goat

Member
On Thursday,Representative Jim Sensenbrenner, Republican of Wisconsin, who introduced the Patriot Act in 2001, said that the National Security Agency overstepped its bounds by issuing a secret order to collect phone log records from millions of Americans “As the author of the Patriot Act, I am extremely troubled by the F.B.I.’s interpretation of this legislation,” he said in a statement. “While I believe the Patriot Act appropriately balanced national security concerns and civil rights, I have always worried about potential abuses.” He added: “Seizing phone records of millions of innocent people is excessive and un-American.”

L-O-L
 
His administration lost all credibility many years ago. His war on civil liberties is just as bad as Bush's.

He's worse than Bush on civil liberties by quite a margin; at least Bush didn't assassinate US citizens without a trial. I figured Obama would continue some of the Bush civil liberty/security tactics, perhaps to avoid the label of being "weak on terror." But he has expanded it in a way I never imagined, from surveillance to drones against US citizens. I'm baffled that no one confronts him over the gross difference between what he does and what he said in 2007, when he was criticizing Bush's executive abuses.

Sadly this won't stop with Obama. Expect each president to get progressively worse on these issues for awhile. I guess the saving grace is that at least he isn't starting massive ground wars.
 
On a side note, my Facebook page is blowing from my more 'conspiracy minded' friends regarding this article. I'm sick of it. If you feel so strongly about this, do something about it instead of fucking bitching on facebook, you clowns.
 

Tamanon

Banned
Hasn't this been going on for 7 years per Saxby Chambliss? With proper Congressional oversight to boot.

Repeal the PATRIOT act, but Congress doesn't want to do it, that's for sure.
 

RyanDG

Member
Edit: Another left leaning site

BMGwIhkCQAE3sm4.png


Edit: if a mod sees this could they edit NTY to NYT?

You know... What's really sad is that I honestly think Bush had a better track record than Obama on privacy concerns. What has happened to my Democratic party?
 

RyanDG

Member
On a side note, my Facebook page is blowing from my more 'conspiracy minded' friends regarding this article. I'm sick of it. If you feel so strongly about this, do something about it instead of fucking bitching on facebook, you clowns.

Bitching on facebook and taking other actions aren't mutually exclusive. The biggest way to get changes made in terms of horrible policy is to highlight that horrible policy to the largest audiences possible.
 

jtb

Banned
You know... What's really sad is that I honestly think Bush had a better track record than Obama on privacy concerns. What has happened to my Democratic party?

the GOP doesn't care about civil liberties so now that the democrats are in power, they can't be held accountable without a lot of people looking like huge hypocrites.

it's sad, but it's the state of affairs. the powers that be seem to think the ends justify the means.
 

GraveRobberX

Platinum Trophy: Learned to Shit While Upright Again.
Sadly this won't stop with Obama. Expect each president to get progressively worse on these issues for awhile. I guess the saving grace is that at least he isn't starting massive ground wars.

Until we get rid of Corporate Welfare and Military Industry Complex Go! Go!, shit ain't never changing

When the Army is telling the government that it has 3000 Extra Abrams (Surplus of Tanks!) and Congress says Fuck it spend it, make more, shit is just wrong
http://security.blogs.cnn.com/2012/10/09/army-to-congress-thanks-but-no-tanks/comment-page-4/

When the FUCKING ARMY is like "Yo', we have to much firepower, it's just stupid to keep building these", Congress goes "Make more, just in case"

You know... What's really sad is that I honestly think Bush had a better track record than Obama on privacy concerns. What has happened to my Democratic party?

It moved to where the conservatives are, they whole balance shifted right that way <===

The Tea Parties and fringe at the edge of the right, Democrats left the liberal side and are more conservative to cover that side @_@!
 
You know... What's really sad is that I honestly think Bush had a better track record than Obama on privacy concerns. What has happened to my Democratic party?

Democrats have always been behind Republicans on the subject of privacy, though they both don't have it as a priority.
 
The current administration has been running on fumes credibility-wise anyway, this is nothing new. More invasive, more secretive than the last administration by far. Unfortunately there's no end to the people who will forgive him anything if it means justifying their vote.
 

gcubed

Member
Right. I don't get the op though, Obama didn't pass the patriot act or renew it recently, congress did, how are they going to stop something they repeatedly and overwhelmingly support.

It doesn't say anything about Obama on civil liberties, which he's terrible on, just the jump from the op is nonsensical
 

Aylinato

Member
Its not Spy vs Torture. We're talking about spying right now and in that area Obama is significantly worse than Bush. As PP said, Bush never assassinated American citizens abroad. Obama has.


You said he's worse than bush regarding civil liberties. Bush held Americans in Gitmo and tortured them while repressing their Habeus corpus.

So no, spying is not as bad.



However spying is still bad. Very bad. Awful in fact.
 
Its not Spy vs Torture. We're talking about spying right now and in that area Obama is significantly worse than Bush. As PP said, Bush never assassinated American citizens abroad. Obama has.

What about every single soldier that died in Iraq over false claims of WMD's and false links to 9/11? Not using this as a justification for what Obama is doing, but don't pretend that GWB didn't have a hand in the death's of American citizens who shouldn't have even been in that country to begin with.
 
Right. I don't get the op though, Obama didn't pass the patriot act or renew it recently, congress did, how are they going to stop something they repeatedly and overwhelmingly support.

Obama doesn't have to allow these dragnets. He can say I have the legal authority but I'm not going to use it and going to actively fight for change on capital hill.
 
Bitching on facebook and taking other actions aren't mutually exclusive. The biggest way to get changes made in terms of horrible policy is to highlight that horrible policy to the largest audiences possible.

LOL and then do nothing. Bitching on facebook is for personal attention.
 

gcubed

Member
What about every single soldier that died in Iraq over false claims of WMD's and false links to 9/11? Not using this as a justification for what Obama is doing, but don't pretend that GWB didn't have a hand in the death's of American citizens who shouldn't have even been in that country to begin with.

Not the same ... One starting false wars, the other is executing a citizen without trial
 
You know... What's really sad is that I honestly think Bush had a better track record than Obama on privacy concerns. What has happened to my Democratic party?

So I'm going out on a limb here and guessing you didn't pay much attention to the Bush administration when they were in power.
 

GraveRobberX

Platinum Trophy: Learned to Shit While Upright Again.
Right. I don't get the op though, Obama didn't pass the patriot act or renew it recently, congress did, how are they going to stop something they repeatedly and overwhelmingly support.

Congress: "We gave him the power to use responsibly, he's abusing it!"

President: "Deal With It!"

Congress: "A Republican President would have never ever talked like that!"

President: "...."
 
Man, you'd think Obama actually passed the Patriot Act

Anyway, this is a slow erosion of freedom, bad, etc.
This is the stuff on your phone bill - so if you're not calling any terror cells, you should be alright - but it shouldn't be happening/need to happen by principle. The Obama Administration should end this, if feasible/politically possible.
 

gcubed

Member
Obama doesn't have to allow these dragnets. He can say I have the legal authority but I'm not going to use it and going to actively fight for change on capital hill.

Yes, but that still has nothing to do with why or how congress would stop him from using laws they overwhelmingly support.
 

sans_pants

avec_pénis
Obama has been a pretty bad president for a while. Which is a damn shame, because republican candidates are somehow worse
 
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