NYTimes: "How one stupid tweet blew up Sacco's Life"
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1.) Gaf isn't a collecting hive mind. You have people ok with it and others not.
2.) not all postings are created equal. It's not black and white. Some are clearly jokes and some things can be flat out racist/sexist with everything in between.
Portugeezer
Member
When you tweet you should think of it as going in public with a megaphone.
If you wouldn't be happy saying it like that, then don't tweet it, especially if you twitter is linked to your real life.
If you wouldn't be happy saying it like that, then don't tweet it, especially if you twitter is linked to your real life.
As someone who lives in Africa this is insensitive as fuck
How can a rational adult think that that is an ok thing to say?
Some things shouldnt be joked about
How can a rational adult think that that is an ok thing to say?
Some things shouldnt be joked about
Spiderjericho
Member
Read the article. The parts about public humiliation were interesting.
Sad that she lost her job and her was impacted so heavily. The person who posted it seemed pretty obnoxious and insensitive.
I have a supervisor. He's an older man in his early 50s. He always says "Words have meaning."
Sad that she lost her job and her was impacted so heavily. The person who posted it seemed pretty obnoxious and insensitive.
I have a supervisor. He's an older man in his early 50s. He always says "Words have meaning."
UncleSporky
Member
Heck, we live in an era where if your asshole friend borrows your phone and posts something racist, you could still be fired and suffer all the repercussions.
"No, that wasn't me, it was my asshole friend!"
"Uh huh, sure, nice try."
"Whether it was their friend or not, I'm appalled that this corporation would hire someone who even keeps company with racists!"
"No, that wasn't me, it was my asshole friend!"
"Uh huh, sure, nice try."
"Whether it was their friend or not, I'm appalled that this corporation would hire someone who even keeps company with racists!"
Lé Blade Runner
Member
The thing that scares me about Internet mob-mentality is the simple fact that if you don't side with the majority, it doesn't matter how well-founded your opinion is - you might still be singled out and have your life ruined ( to varying degrees ).
I did think Sacco's tweet was a representation of bad judgement made in haste - she probably didn't really think it through ( how difficult it is to convey sarcasm through text, let alone a social media engine like Twitter ). But people were equally quick in condemning her for simplified, and wrong, reasons. She wasn't being racist - she was being sarcastic. And she failed - like any of us might - in conveying that. The repercussions for this were way over the top; so much so, that I can't help but to feel a certain level of hatred towards the whole social media machine.
There really is no freedom of speech when it comes to places like Twitter and Facebook, especially when you deal with volatile issues. There is only the majority opinion - the bandwagon - or the possibility of getting shunned by the majority, no matter how well you word your less-accepted opinion.
I did think Sacco's tweet was a representation of bad judgement made in haste - she probably didn't really think it through ( how difficult it is to convey sarcasm through text, let alone a social media engine like Twitter ). But people were equally quick in condemning her for simplified, and wrong, reasons. She wasn't being racist - she was being sarcastic. And she failed - like any of us might - in conveying that. The repercussions for this were way over the top; so much so, that I can't help but to feel a certain level of hatred towards the whole social media machine.
There really is no freedom of speech when it comes to places like Twitter and Facebook, especially when you deal with volatile issues. There is only the majority opinion - the bandwagon - or the possibility of getting shunned by the majority, no matter how well you word your less-accepted opinion.
Rockandrollclown
lookwhatyou'vedone
Everything should be joked about. On the topic, I do find it rather sad that the first thing people do now if they get offended/feelings hurt is try to go after someone's means to support themselves/make it so they can't find gainful employment again. Having said that, the mob is easily avoidable, don't post every stupid thing that pops into your mind on Twitter. Twitter/Facebook are not necessities to live, just avoid them. If you're someone that has to post every stupid thing, on a long enough timeline you'll probably offend someone/some group. The only way to win is not to play.
I did. Mostly because I didn't believe there was anyone who could actually mean what was said. That's the kind of thing that's a team name at my local "Sex, Drugs, and Rock and Roll Trivia Night". The funniest name gets free shots, and you bet your ass we try to think of the funniest, most offensive thing we can think of every week.
Because no one wants context anymore, they just want to ride their initial reaction as far as they can. Twitter has limited everyone's collective attention span to 140 characters. Hell, people can say they were wrong and apologize after the fact, and people STILL only focus on that original tweet.
Was she stupid to post that on a service with no context? In a place where everyone can just read it and not know her personality, or the types of jokes she tells, or even if she's a good person? Yeah, she was an idiot about that, but if you're saying the punishment in any way fit the "crime", you're crazy.
Subnote: I'm glad as hell the internet wasn't as popular when I grew up, because I'm sure something I either said or did from basically 5 years old until I was 30 would have ruined me. I mean, damn. The lynch-mob is crazy.
She was Director of Communications, and she couldn't communicate.
It's sad to me that people aren't allowed to make mistakes these days without their lives being ruined.
There's a not a person on this forum who hasn't said something stupid in their lives. Maybe even a few times. It's not really how you feel, but maybe you were trying to make a joke, make a point, or be funny and it just came out wrong or it wasn't funny and offended someone or a maybe a lot of someone's.
There's no chance to talk to, educate someone, or explain how hurtful things can be. No, instead we go straight for the throat and don't stop until we've completely stripped that person of every inch of their livelihood and left them on the floor a broken mess in the fetal position.
There's no humanity in this. It's nothing but straight up mob justice and bullying without repercussions.
There's a not a person on this forum who hasn't said something stupid in their lives. Maybe even a few times. It's not really how you feel, but maybe you were trying to make a joke, make a point, or be funny and it just came out wrong or it wasn't funny and offended someone or a maybe a lot of someone's.
There's no chance to talk to, educate someone, or explain how hurtful things can be. No, instead we go straight for the throat and don't stop until we've completely stripped that person of every inch of their livelihood and left them on the floor a broken mess in the fetal position.
There's no humanity in this. It's nothing but straight up mob justice and bullying without repercussions.
You know she's from South Africa, right?
Yep. Empathy 0; Hypocritical Self-Righteousness and Insecurities: 1
Massive Duck. C.M.
Banned
There are millions of people who go their whole lives without saying something really dumb in public
It's not hard
It's not hard
Reading the article now, but I remember when this happened. Hhere's the GAF thread, posted right when it was starting to go viral.
I'm not trying to be an asshole with this remark but.... Do you get out much?
Massive Duck. C.M.
Banned
You did a good job for not trying
UncleSporky
Member
If she had been bad at actually doing her job, she would've been fired long before that point.
Nearly every job involves interpersonal skills to some extent. She could've been working at McDonald's and you'd see people saying "and THIS person is expected to serve black people in line without being racist toward them?! Fire her!"
It's such a simple concept,
But is he wrong?
When will people gain self awareness and take personal responsibility?
People get fired everyday for one major fuckup on an otherwise stellar record.
It's called being a human being.
And here's a great revelation for you: human beings aren't perfect. Most of us are flawed, some more deeply flawed than others. Part of humanity is being able to learn and grow from your own mistakes. You're not given the opportunity to actually learn anything in scenarios like this because you end up stripped of whatever livelihood you had and end up being bullied into living a life of seclusion.
Massive Duck. C.M.
Banned
She had 30 years and a job in PR that should have helped her realize that was a bad idea
Enjoy your outrage though
Poodlestrike
Banned
And there are also millions of people who do say something really dumb in public. Should they all lose their jobs be harassed by a mob of self-righteous internet strangers?
Massive Duck. C.M.
Banned
Angelus Errare
Banned
Losing their job? Depends on how stupid their comment was.
NealMcCauley
Member
If I recall people started digging through her twitter and found just as tasteless jokes she had made. The thread on that was one of the first times I visited gaf.
She didn't commit a crime.
And she lost everything and had to live a life of seclusion for a while and she was still hounded after she tried to rebuild her life.
Typically that kind of punishment is reserved for only the most hardened criminals.
Would like to point out that the guy who started the whole Sacco thing (Sam Biddle) ended up making just as terrible of a comment online less than a year later. Karma is most certainly a bitch sometimes.
EDIT: Nope; was different people, so deleted the second statement.
Poodlestrike
Banned
Then why condone it some of the time? I just don't get it.
Setting aside that I really don't think people's jobs should be allowed to take over the rest of their lives, the internet mob is part of the package. If this hadn't stirred up a mob, none of these people would have lost their jobs.
Massive Duck. C.M.
Banned
Which is why she isn't in jail. Whats your point?
Anton Sugar
Member
Well, most people are smart enough to realize that, when you say something in public, it likely doesn't have a wide audience unless you're actually in front of a huge group or are being broadcast.
Twitter =/= talking in public. It's 2015, people should know how Twitter fucking works nowadays. I've said stupid shit before, but I didn't post it, publicly, on a site that is literally designed to quickly and easily spread information, thoughts, and opinions. This isn't someone's personal email getting hacked and revealing a distasteful but private joke.
I keep hearing talk about this ethereal "mob" that spreads and takes things too far. Twitter IS "the mob". That's what it is, that's its appeal. Twitter worked exactly how it was designed in this case.
Exploding8
Member
Twitter came out 9 years ago and only recently became a pr tool. Most people dont have enough experience to truly understand the repurcussions of using twitter yet.
It is pretty incredible that telling a crude joke is so beyond the pale now. I think this partly has to do with how utterly drowned out "context" has become. It doesn't matter that this person is perfectly fine, reasonable, and kind in their day to day lives, and that they were simply in a snippy, ridiculous mood as they chronicled these travels. You see their entire self through the lens of a single fucking tweet.
This is why I don't buy that this has anything whatsoever to do with empathy, or deep acknowledgment/sensitivity toward the potentially offended parties. An empathetic mind is one I associate with imagination, understanding, forgiveness, even critical thinking. And an empathetic mind doesn't look at a life through the lens of a single tweet, ridiculously dramatize the potential consequences of that tweet, and then proceed to mindlessly become part of a herd that actually, truly damages people's lives.
This is why I don't buy that this has anything whatsoever to do with empathy, or deep acknowledgment/sensitivity toward the potentially offended parties. An empathetic mind is one I associate with imagination, understanding, forgiveness, even critical thinking. And an empathetic mind doesn't look at a life through the lens of a single tweet, ridiculously dramatize the potential consequences of that tweet, and then proceed to mindlessly become part of a herd that actually, truly damages people's lives.
The point is that she was punished like a criminal. She lost her job, lost her livelihood, had to go into hiding, tried to rebuild, and the mob still came after her. To this day she still doesn't want people to know where she's at or what she's doing which indicates she was traumatized by what happened.
Anton Sugar
Member
Define "recently". There are guides and articles from 2007 on using Twitter for PR.
Regardless, I don't think it matters. Even if Twitter only recently started being used as a PR tool, there have been numerous cautionary tales about Twitter, how to use it, and how it works. How Twitter "works" shouldn't be news to anyone familiar with the internet.
Here's a tip: don't use it for distasteful jokes! It rarely ends well.
That's completely untrue. Even if it had only been used for five years as a PR tool, it's a method of communication and communications moves fast.
I'm still confused why people can't seem to understand why this isn't just any old job. The Director of Corporate Communications is in charge of managing several people and training them on ensuring that they train their clients how to speak to the masses--who may or may not be hostile to begin with. She was the face of her organization's CorpComms department.
And she couldn't even manage her own communications. Every single prospective or current client that came across her name on a pitch would know immediately, and this is regardless of whether or not there was an Internet mob out after her.
Google the person you're about to meet to decide whether or not you want to work with them and find a Tweet about AIDS--satirical or not--that was obviously not thought through. Do you want this person in charge of your communications?
Great article! It's something I have noticed a lot recently, the mob mentality is scary and the punishments they are afflicting are incredibly disproportionate to the person's wrongdoing.
It's almost getting out of hand, when sitting in front of a computer, we can't really understand what it means that 100 000 people are attacking a person, it's just a number, it's virtual to us. The decontextualisation is also a danger, pretty crazy that a drawing in Paris leads to deaths in Niger.
It's almost getting out of hand, when sitting in front of a computer, we can't really understand what it means that 100 000 people are attacking a person, it's just a number, it's virtual to us. The decontextualisation is also a danger, pretty crazy that a drawing in Paris leads to deaths in Niger.
Yes, her job title was ironic. The thing is, "she couldn't manage her own communications" is a shortsighted statement. It overemphasizes the outcome, and with a dose of better luck, chances are no one would have remembered that tweet within a week. People in all positions occasionally say dumb things, and she may very well have been incredibly good at her job most of the time.
Once this shit blew up on her, the company had little choice but to fire her, but that had little to do with how good she was at her job. Same with the other people who were mentioned in the article who were fired from their jobs.
They also gleefully posted leaked nude photos of pro wrestlers when it was only months removed from
The Fappening
Go into a PR meeting with a client and say "with a dose of better luck" and see what happens.
This is a non-response.
Edit: In retrospect, so was this post. The main question I have is: which part of my post is this supposed to rebuke?
No it's not. You're not talking about an Account Coordinator who's been on the job for three weeks. You're talking about the Director of a major department in a massive communications company. Predicting the public's response is unfortunately a big part of the job, and not being able to do it for something as simple as an Africa/AIDS joke reflects really poorly on her quality as a Director.
If you messed up on client work for exactly the same reason and went into the meeting with "a dose of better luck," you'd be making up a serious budget shortfall when they fired your agency's ass.
poppabk
Cheeks Spread for Digital Only Future
Read the dongle story from the OP. You don't even need to have a twitter/Facebook account to have your life ruined.
metalslimer
Member
While I do think the mob of people online takes things too far sometimes, why in the world would I want a PR person who is dumb enough to post something like that online? She deserved to lose that job at least.
Like I said, the company wasn't wrong to fire her. This doesn't change that we don't have nearly enough information to make any worthwhile judgment as to how good she was at her job. You live your life relatively anonymously, have a little followed Twitter account tailored to people who actually know you, and one day decide to tweet something dumb/crude/whatever. The vast majority of the time, nothing becomes of this. On occasion, it'll circulate more than you expected, and you'll be embarrassed. No one can predict they'll be that person who will face the wrath of a fully realized Twitter horde.
You have to give people room for a mistake or two. As often as we hear about this kind of thing happening, in actuality, there's a constant spew of similar or worse things being said on Twitter, and almost none of it has consequences. If her tweet had been overlooked, or even just resulted in a bit of embarrassment, chances are she would still have her job. It so happens that it resulted in something much worse than mere embarrassment.
She should have known better, but it's easy to imagine she nonetheless had qualities that justified giving her that position.
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