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[Jarmel]

That's the thing, you can't control this kind of punishment. It's the nature of society. You can't ever control how others will react. She tried to be stupidly funny and it blew up in her face, and her company let her go because of it. That's the end.

Except it wasn't:

Late one afternoon last year, I met Justine Sacco in New York, at a restaurant in Chelsea called Cookshop. Dressed in rather chic business attire, Sacco ordered a glass of white wine. Just three weeks had passed since her trip to Africa, and she was still a person of interest to the media. Websites had already ransacked her Twitter feed for more horrors. (For example, “I had a sex dream about an autistic kid last night,” from 2012, was unearthed by BuzzFeed in the article “16 Tweets Justine Sacco Regrets.&#8221 A New York Post photographer had been following her to the gym.

 

[Stet]

how was she bad at her job? Nobody would have cared had someone not sent it to biddle, and biddle not been a dick and posted it without giving her time to respond (like journalists usually do)

a PR person's job is not to be in the public light, again, they are not celebrities. They just work in that field and advise others.

Their job is literally to know how every single person will react. That is their job. She failed at her job and did it publicly with her company's name right beside her failure. She is bad at being a director of corporate communications.

 

[ElectricBlanketFire]

a PR person's job is not to be in the public light, again, they are not celebrities. They just work in that field and advise others.

You do know what the 'P' in PR stands for, right?

 

[Massive Duck. C.M.]

For anyone who studied history (or actually read the part of the article where the author looks back at the history of public shaming) - it's a damn accurate path.

Thanks for the offhand condecension but no. I have no idea what Jarate gets out of riding so hard for this woman and saying that everyone who says that someone working in PR should be aware of how a statement like the one she made would be taken on Twitter is also saying that she deserves to be harassed to the point of depression, but likening someone addressing that lack or judgement to someone blaming a rape victim is off base and disgusting.

 

[A_Gorilla]

Christ at the amount of straw man arguments and loaded questions in here. You people are being just as black and white and vilifying as the internet vigilantes you're rallying against.

 

[Jarate]

Did you seriously compare someone legitimately getting offended but a blatantly racist statement with a rapist. Seriously?

If your reading comprehension was better maybe you'd understand the point I was trying to make

And I do think it's incredibly serious that someone gets attacked and harassed based off of something silly, something which might have caused her an incredible amount of stress and damage. Yes that is actually a really terrible thing

 

[Admiral Woofington]

Her tweets being 'out of context' is really a reach, this wasn't near the knuckle brilliant satire, or mocking racism, there was just no thought put into them.

Just lazy stereotypes to spice up otherwise uninteresting tweets, and with the AIDS one she spectacularly over-reached.

Even her after the event explanation just amounts to "I didn't think", when as a director of communications with an account that is public she should have done.

??
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p69XxYjfx-k

It sounds like she was attempting something like the Boondocks joke which had the exact same punchline. She failed miserably because like others have said, she didn't know her audience.

 

[NYCmetsfan]

So she has black friends? Ok.

Weak.

She's literally lived a life the opposite of her tweet. Is it really bad for her to mock others who she disagrees with?

What about all of gaf who mock racists and homophobes? How do they defend themselves against charges of racism and homophobia if someone not in on the joke takes offense?

 

[ahoyhoy]

Christ at the amount of straw man arguments and loaded questions in here. You people are being just as black and white and vilifying as the internet vigilantes you're rallying against.

The cycle has just turned again. We are now against those who are against those who are against people who say or do offensive things on the internet.

Wait...

 

[Robot Carnival]

I never understand the reason Twitter is so popular... I don't even have an actively use Facebook account and I simply can't wrap my head around the appeal of twitting. all my friends are RL friends that I see pretty often and I have no need to express myself to the general public outside of GAF (where I can actually speak in length and accurately express what I want to say).

if what you said is open to the public to view, then you need to think twice before saying it. if I'm telling my friends a joke that's offensive, I make sure I whisper to them if I'm in public or only text them personally about it because I know when people hear it out of context they will not be happy about it. what's so hard to do in the case of twitting then? can't you set one of these "joke" twitts in private mode or something? that is your responsibility and there's nobody to blame but yourself if things gone bad. it's all about responsibility.

I know everyone said "your work life shouldn't effect your personal life and vice versa", but that is when you keep your personal life privat. the moment you allow public access to it is the moment you have think twice about what you say and do. why is that so hard to grasp?

 

[A_Gorilla]

If your reading comprehension was better maybe you'd understand the point I was trying to make

Personal insults are not tolerated here.

 

[Alchemy]

"Living in America puts us in a bit of a bubble when it comes to what is going on in the third world. I was making fun of that bubble.”

No you weren't asshole, you were making a racist comment in a space you felt comfortable in. This is exactly the same situation as someone making a sexist joke in a space they're comfortable in because it is filled with nothing but men. It is who you are and you got caught with your guard down being a shitty human. Own up to it and work towards improving yourself damn it.

 

[Jarate]

No you weren't asshole, you were making a racist comment in a space you felt comfortable in. This is exactly the same situation as someone making a sexist joke in a space they're comfortable in because it is filled with nothing but men. It is who you are and you got caught with your guard down being a shitty human. Own up to it and work towards improving yourself damn it.

Which she apparently did by feeling remorse and trying to further understand the world

 

[Goodstyle]

Man, I honestly feel really bad for her. Everyone is always looking for a chance to be a sanctimonious little shit these days.

 

[NYCmetsfan]

I never understand the reason Twitter is so popular... I don't even have an actively use Facebook account and I simply can't wrap my head around the appeal of twitting. all my friends are RL friends that I see pretty often and I have no need to express myself to the general public outside of GAF (where I can actually speak in length and accurately express what I want to say).

if what you said is open to the public to view, then you need to think twice before saying it. if I'm telling my friends a joke that's offensive, I make sure I whisper to them if I'm in public or only text them personally about it because I know when people hear it out of context they will not be happy about it. what's so hard to do in the case of twitting then? can't you set one of these "joke" twitts in private mode or something? that is your responsibility and there's nobody to blame but yourself if things gone bad. it's all about responsibility.

I know everyone said "your work life shouldn't effect your personal life and vice versa", but that is when you keep your personal life privat. the moment you allow public access to it is the moment you have think twice about what you say and do. why is that so hard to grasp?

This is easy to say for 25-30+ people. Its next to impossible for teenagers and young adults (not to mention those being born now) who's entire social lives are online.

If one must watch what one says even to his friends, then he's gonna be a mute

 

[Poodlestrike]

No you weren't asshole, you were making a racist comment in a space you felt comfortable in. This is exactly the same situation as someone making a sexist joke in a space they're comfortable in because it is filled with nothing but men. It is who you are and you got caught with your guard down being a shitty human. Own up to it and work towards improving yourself damn it.

Wait, how do you know that, again?

 

[ahoyhoy]

No you weren't asshole, you were making a racist comment in a space you felt comfortable in. This is exactly the same situation as someone making a sexist joke in a space they're comfortable in because it is filled with nothing but men. It is who you are and you got caught with your guard down being a shitty human. Own up to it and work towards improving yourself damn it.

It would be hard to apply the same characterization to Louis CK when he makes a joke that could be perceived as racist taken out of context.

She just had the misfortune of making this joke to an audience that doesn't know anything about her and assumed the worst.

 

[bsod]

how was she bad at her job? Nobody would have cared had someone not sent it to biddle, and biddle not been a dick and posted it without giving her time to respond (like journalists usually do)

a PR person's job is not to be in the public light, again, they are not celebrities. They just work in that field and advise others.

Pay attention because you seem to be missing this important aspect repeatedly. Her job is in public relations. Do you know what that entails? I'll presume no since you're constantly confused on this point. Her job is to interact with the public in order to garner a favorable reaction for a specific purpose. Are you still paying attention? What she did is she pissed off a bunch of people through her interaction. This is akin to a chef seeving food that leads to food poisoning. Either she's a racist or she's unable to communicate her ideas properly. Either way, why would any potential client sign on when this is the type of negative reaction the...still paying attention?...Director of Communications is getting. This isn't rocket science.

Is a right that she was harassed or threatened? No way. But she is bad at her job, has proven to be a liability, and should have fired. There are a lot of people biting at the chance to have her position that won't be stupid enough to say something so stupid so publically.

 

[Jarate]

Pay attention because you seem to be missing this important aspect repeatedly. Her job is in public relations. Do you know what that entails? I'll presume no since you're constantly confused on this point. Her job is to interact with the public in order to garner a favorable reaction for a specific purpose. Are you still paying attention? What she did is she pissed off a bunch of people through her interaction. This is akin to a chef seeving food that leads to food poisoning. Either she's a racist or she's unable to communicate her ideas properly. Either way, why would any potential client sign on when this is the type of negative reaction the...still paying attention?...Director of Communications is getting. This isn't rocket science.

Is a right that she was harassed or threatened? No way. But she is bad at her job, has proven to be a liability, and should have fired. There are a lot of people biting at the chance to have her position that won't be stupid enough to say something so stupid so publically.

But the article isnt about her getting fired. It's literally about her life dealing with harassment and such along with other victims who experienced the same thing.

 

[Oersted]

"Senior director of corporate communications". Quite the high-end job for a 30yr old who made such statements. Must've sucked that major D to get that high up so early.

Seriously dude?

 

[Silexx]

Their job is literally to know how every single person will react. That is their job. She failed at her job and did it publicly with her company's name right beside her failure. She is bad at being a director of corporate communications.

WAT

That is inane. PR people are clairvoyants?

 

[Allforce]

What's bizarre to me is just how random the mob justice is over some of these images/tweets/posts. Like, why this lady for this dumb joke? You can do a search on twitter and never stop finding horrible racist and insensitive things tweeted by people. Is it just her corporate position? What about the girl at the cemetary posting that pic?

I scrolled through like a thousand tweets sent to that Anita Sarkeesian woman last week that she posted on her blog that were all a variation of "I'ma kill/rape/shoot/stab/destroy you bitch", and nobody bats an eye.

 

[bsod]

But the article isnt about her getting fired. It's literally about her life dealing with harassment and such along with other victims who experienced the same thing.

I wasn't speaking to you, and that wasn't the point of the post I was responding to. If you want to be an backseat mod, don't be selective.

 

[Gordon Shumway]

"Senior director of corporate communications". Quite the high-end job for a 30yr old who made such statements. Must've sucked that major D to get that high up so early.

Not gonna lie..I'm quite amused that people are losing their stuffing over this quote, but what she said is aaaaall jokes..lol. Carry on, folks..carry on..

 

[NYCmetsfan]

No you weren't asshole, you were making a racist comment in a space you felt comfortable in. This is exactly the same situation as someone making a sexist joke in a space they're comfortable in because it is filled with nothing but men. It is who you are and you got caught with your guard down being a shitty human. Own up to it and work towards improving yourself damn it.

You do realize she's African? And grew up in said third world which has been under the ravages of AIDS? (with the obvious catch of her being in a white family in an apartheid state)

Hell even biddle wrote a follow up apologizing and saying she was good at her job after actually chatting with the person (which is more than anyone here can say)

Justine Sacco Is Good at Her Job, and How I Came To Peace With Her

"I was so naive," she said. She had never expected the tweet would be interpreted the way it was.

To her, the entire thing had been plain:

She was flying to South Africa, where she has family.

This trip, she explained, made her think about how so many westerners consider HIV/AIDS an "African thing," when of course there is a domestic AIDS epidemic.

Her tweet was supposed to mimic—and mock—what an actual racist, ignorant person would say.

Ergo, tweeting that thought would be an ironic statement, a joke, the opposite of what it seemed to say. Not knowing anything about her, I had taken its cluelessness at face value, and hundreds of thousands of people had done the same—instantly hating her because it's easy and thrilling to hate a stranger online.

How could anyone have misread my irony? It made no sense. The question How could anyone think I was seriously condoning bullying? was exactly as clear in my mind as How could anyone think I was seriously making light of AIDS in Africa? had been in Sacco's.

Structurally, we had made the same sort of joke: Here is what a truly horrible person—a person whose attitudes were entirely opposite from mine and those of the people who know me—would say. You could argue that hers was worse, conjuring a real and pernicious attitude that had resulted in systemic historical oppression and mass death. But the impulse was the same, and so were the reactions.

Pay attention because you seem to be missing this important aspect repeatedly. Her job is in public relations. Do you know what that entails? I'll presume no since you're constantly confused on this point. Her job is to interact with the public in order to garner a favorable reaction for a specific purpose. Are you still paying attention? What she did is she pissed off a bunch of people through her interaction. This is akin to a chef seeving food that leads to food poisoning. Either she's a racist or she's unable to communicate her ideas properly. Either way, why would any potential client sign on when this is the type of negative reaction the...still paying attention?...Director of Communications is getting. This isn't rocket science.

Is a right that she was harassed or threatened? No way. But she is bad at her job, has proven to be a liability, and should have fired. There are a lot of people biting at the chance to have her position that won't be stupid enough to say something so stupid so publically.

Public relations don't deal with all aspects of human interaction, they deal with concrete things, specific brands and ideas.

I know people in the PR industry, they're not all-knowing. They know certain things very well and are blind to things that its not their job to know. They're human

 

[Stet]

WAT

That is inane. PR people are clairvoyants?

No. PR people have been trained.

 

[Savitar]

I remember some of those as they happened, was nuts. You can find at least two threads, one about the woman and her AIDS joke and the other about the whole dongle incident here on GAF.

Also always relevant:

 

[Jarate]

I wasn't speaking to you, and that wasn't the point of the post I was responding to. If you want to be an backseat mod, don't be selective.

I apologize and was not really armchair modding you, just a lot of people coming into the thread yelling "she deserved to get fired" when that's not the purpose of the article at all

 

[Robot Carnival]

This is easy to say for 25-30+ people. Its next to impossible for teenagers and young adults (not to mention those being born now) who's entire social lives are online.

If one must watch what one says even to his friends, then he's gonna be a mute

I understand the younger generation has this problem, but again, there HAS to be a private setting of sorts before you send out a twitt, no? if you forgot to set it before you send out something offensive, then it's your problem.

 

[NYCmetsfan]

I understand the younger generation has this problem, but again, there HAS to be a private setting of sorts before you send out a twitt, no? if you forgot to set it before you send out something offensive, then it's your problem.

and if one of your friends screenshots it?

 

[dave is ok]

How dare someone be funny on twitter without explicitly informing everyone of their intent.

100 of the 140 characters should be used as a disclaimer

 

[IdreamofHIME]

The dongle one is fucking disgusting.
The fact she felt the need to take a photo of the guy and then throw him to the wolves.
She could have just told a story about about hiw much of an asshile he is and keep his identity anonymous, but she stood up, took his picture and then shared with 100,000 crazies.
The death threats to her are extreme(I'm sure he got them too), but her being fired was right.

 

[A_Gorilla]

How dare someone be funny on twitter without explicitly informing everyone of their intent.

100 of the 140 characters should be used as a disclaimer

Was anyone laughing? I sure as hell wasn't.

 

[Circle Jerk]

If you can read that article and go "ugh human interest pieces" or "yea people deserve that" you do not have empathy. Please stop pretending you are a good person. People deserve to be called out over bad shit. They don't deserve to have their life destroyed. If you can't separate those two, you have issues.

 

[Cybit]

No you weren't asshole, you were making a racist comment in a space you felt comfortable in. This is exactly the same situation as someone making a sexist joke in a space they're comfortable in because it is filled with nothing but men. It is who you are and you got caught with your guard down being a shitty human. Own up to it and work towards improving yourself damn it.

You didn't read the article then, seeing as she spent the next year in Africa working for charity.

Thanks for the offhand condecension but no. I have no idea what Jarate gets out of riding so hard for this woman and saying that everyone who says that someone working in PR should be aware of how a statement like the one she made would be taken on Twitter is also saying that she deserves to be harassed to the point of depression, but likening someone addressing that lack or judgement to someone blaming a rape victim is off base and disgusting.

He's likening the overreaction part to what was up until recently, very true for rape victims. the actions are on the different scale of the spectrum - but the willingness of society to immediately descend into frothiness level attacks on the person's character to justify their own pre-existing biases? That's pretty spot on.

The irony is that Sam Biddle made a similarly bad judgment call with his "bring back bullying of gamers" tweet - and several of the people saying Sacco deserved what happened defended Biddle's tweet. Because, you know, he was on "their" side. Even though he reportedly cost Gawker millions of dollars in lost revenue, seeing as he was deliberately insulting much of Gawker's specific consumer base. Sort of like doing the opposite of his job. Yet, plenty of people blowing up Sacco in this thread defended him in that thread.

Most ironic part: Justine Sacco had done more to actually combat racism, and has dealt more with the actual structural effects of racism then anyone in this thread criticizing her even before she made that tweet.

 

[Scully Scully Scoo]

Good lord, this is completely fucking ridiculous. That's not even the best part:


Just a cycle of people overreacting to each other.

wiff of karma in there lmao

The article missed a good one. Adam Orith.

nah that was deserved, he was asshole through and through

 

[B-Dubs]

What's bizarre to me is just how random the mob justice is over some of these images/tweets/posts. Like, why this lady for this dumb joke? You can do a search on twitter and never stop finding horrible racist and insensitive things tweeted by people. Is it just her corporate position? What about the girl at the cemetary posting that pic?

I scrolled through like a thousand tweets sent to that Anita Sarkeesian woman last week that she posted on her blog that were all a variation of "I'ma kill/rape/shoot/stab/destroy you bitch", and nobody bats an eye.

It's just what happens to catch their eye. There's no rhyme or reason to how it works. It's a crap shoot, it's mob mentality, no one can control it. It just is.

The whole twitter justice thing has always been dumb. There's no room for context, no time for restraint, there's only the desire to inflict as much damage has humanly possible. And if it turns out you screwed up and the person didn't deserve to have their life ruined, you come up with an excuse after to justify your actions.

 

[Silexx]

No. PR people have been trained.

What? Trained to see into the future?

 

[Robot Carnival]

and if one of your friends screenshots it?

then you should rethink who is your real friend and say things more carefully? how is that any different from RL? you should choose your friends carefully be it RL or online.

 

[Stet]

What? Trained to see into the future?

Trained to know how people will react to an AIDS joke. Are you just asking random questions?

 

[Crocodile]

I apologize and was not really armchair modding you, just a lot of people coming into the thread yelling "she deserved to get fired" when that's not the purpose of the article at all

So how is saying "they deserved to get fired" equal to "they deserved to be harassed"? Like huh? The article may be about harassment but that's clearly not what anyone here is condoning - rather its part of a dialogue people are having over whether or not these individuals deserved to be fired or not.

 

[Silexx]

Trained to know how people will react to an AIDS joke. Are you just asking random questions?

I think you vastly overestimate the profession's ability to anticipate every individual's reaction to any given situation.

 

[A_Gorilla]

I think you vastly overestimate the profession's ability to anticipate every individual's reaction to any given situation.

So you're saying PR people shouldn't anticipate people getting offending by saying only black people can get AIDS?

 

[Metroidvania]

On the notion of being fired, no, probably not.

But Twitter has long since ceased being solely for 'personal use' if you keep your page open to the public, especially when you put up your job title and place of employment in your description of your twitter page.

Disclaiming "my opinions are my own and do not reflect my company" isn't gonna do shit.

Can't mix personal opinions in the same page where you list your company and position, keep it in a separate account.

 

[Cybit]

So how is saying "they deserved to get fired" equal to "they deserved to be harassed"? Like huh? The article may be about harassment but that's clearly not what anyone here is condoning - rather its part of a dialogue people are having over whether or not these individuals deserved to be fired or not.

The point of the article is that there is no "moderation" involved in this. The nature of the internet mob (and of mobs) is that they are not rational nuanced creatures. The part about "should she have been fired" is an illegitimate argument. There is no middle ground. There is "nothing" or "burned to the ground". That's how it has always been throughout history. From the Salem Witch Trials to McCarthyism. Mob justice has no nuance, no boundaries, besides total destruction. By its' very nature it can only completely destroy. That's why when you say "it should have been broadcast on the internet so she would have been fired", you are inherently saying "she should have had her life completely destroyed for it." Because that's the sad truth. There is no middle ground.

 

[Jarate]

So how is saying "they deserved to get fired" equal to "they deserved to be harassed"? Like huh? The article may be about harassment but that's clearly not what anyone here is condoning - rather its part of a dialogue people are having over whether or not these individuals deserved to be fired or not.

So when you go into a thread like this, a thread about people getting harassed and attacked by internet vigilante mobs and post something like

No sympathy. This is a new day: shit you say online can cost you.

And then try to explain that "oh I was only saying she deserved to get fired lol" isnt that missing the entire point of the article

 

[Stet]

I think you vastly overestimate the profession's ability to anticipate every individual's reaction to any given situation.

This isn't any given situation and you're being intentionally obtuse if you try to argue that it is.

 

[DoktorEvil]

What's bizarre to me is just how random the mob justice is over some of these images/tweets/posts. Like, why this lady for this dumb joke? You can do a search on twitter and never stop finding horrible racist and insensitive things tweeted by people. Is it just her corporate position? What about the girl at the cemetary posting that pic?

I scrolled through like a thousand tweets sent to that Anita Sarkeesian woman last week that she posted on her blog that were all a variation of "I'ma kill/rape/shoot/stab/destroy you bitch", and nobody bats an eye.

Consider the average internet citizen and what demographic they are and what sites they frequent.

Next, consider how irrational and brash these people ofter are.

Most of the time, it's a flavor of the week attack. Those same people will gain some sick sense of gratification because they did something immediate instead of working on handling the institutions that build and embolden people into high positions.

Not realizing that they destroyed someone's life systematically by one out of context tweet.

It's been the primary reason I've strayed away from general social media. It's a toxic environment full of echo chambers and of people who are loud and vocal online just because.

 

[dave is ok]

Was anyone laughing? I sure as hell wasn't.

Regardless of your personal reaction to it, it was clearly an attempt at humor and the fact her life was so upended by it is ridiculous.

How is it even possible for so many people to get so mad at a twitter length comment?

 

[LouisaFerre]

I don't get this idea of going out of your way to shame others for doing something that isn't directly harmful to another person. It's really bizarre to me to spend that kind of effort and time on a person you don't even like, and to genuinely feel some kind of joy or satisfaction at another person feeling bad.

Without them directly victimizing someone else, the worst I can feel towards another person is indifference. It's almost difficult to think of the people taking part in this kind of stuff as other human beings, it's so weird to me.