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http://news.google.com/news?hl=en&e...an+predators+itch+for+a+kill&btnG=Search+News

OR

http://www.nytimes.com/2004/08/12/technology/circuits/12urba.html?pagewanted=print&position=

The sense of place, peril and pigmentation evident in previews of the game, Grand Theft Auto: San Andreas, underscores what some critics consider a disturbing trend: popular video games that play on racial stereotypes, including images of black youths committing and reveling in violent street crime.

"They are nothing more than pixilated minstrel shows," said Joe Morgan, a telecommunications executive in Manhattan who is black and is helping rear his girlfriend's 7-year-old son, who plays video games. Mr. Morgan argues that games like the Grand Theft Auto sequel, which was described glowingly and at length in a game magazine the boy recently brought home, are dangerously reinforcing stereotypes.

 

[Deku Tree]

I can't wait to hear what they're going to say about San Andreas.

 

[AniHawk]

I forget, was there this much backlash when the series starred an Italian guy?

 

[explodet]

Most of the backlash was because of the Haitian issue, I believe.

 

[Deku Tree]

I forget, was there this much backlash when the series starred an Italian guy?

Not really. Wasn't alot of complaints about the Sopranos either... or the Godfather etc.

 

[The Faceless Master]

wow, even some black people don't like CJ!!

But Esther Iverem, editor and film critic for www.seeingblack.com, a Washington-based Web site offering black opinion on cultural and political matters, said she worried about the effects of games like earlier versions of Grand Theft Auto on black youngsters, including her 11-year-old son. "These games don't teach them anything about respect, tolerance and responsibility," Ms. Iverem said, but are instead "validating a much-too-accepted stereotype, an accepted caricature."

i wish all these "parents" worried abotu what the games teach their young ones would READ THE FUCKING RATING ON THE BOX!

 

[Alcibiades]

Not really. Wasn't alot of complaints about the Sopranos either... or the Godfather etc.

actually, I remember news reports about Sopranos complaints and Italian-related stuff, but you also have to consider that looking at crime statistics, the urban crime rate/issue/happenings (and the perception, real or not, that blacks/mexicans/minorities are the face of that) are far more relevent to a larger number of Americans than are Mob-related incidents/fears...

 

[TekunoRobby]

*sigh* The shit is really going to hit the fan when GTA: SA hits the market. We're going to be in some turbulent times.

 

[MightyHedgehog]

Not all that related to this particular topic, but it still amazes me how few (and I mean, FEW) non-'white' protagonists there are in games today...especially considering that gaming is such a popular form of entertainment that all people love to partake of. Sad.

 

[bishoptl]

Yep, such is life. Still, kids shouldn't be playing it, so blah blah blah etc.

BTW, the Italian Anti-Defamation League (or something similar) had a lawsuit going against the Sopranos in their first couple of seasons, for the same reasons. Racist in its depiction of Italian life, contributes to the gangster Mafia mentality, etc etc. I can't remember how if there was a settlement or what...but obviously the show is still going strong.

"A lot of young people are unable to discern between reality and satirical depictions," he said. "It makes them very vulnerable."

But Esther Iverem, editor and film critic for www.seeingblack.com, a Washington-based Web site offering black opinion on cultural and political matters, said she worried about the effects of games like earlier versions of Grand Theft Auto on black youngsters, including her 11-year-old son.

Then read the GODDAMN RATING ON THE BOX BEFORE YOU LET THEM PLAY, JACKASSES.

 

[aoi tsuki]

But Esther Iverem, editor and film critic for www.seeingblack.com, a Washington-based Web site offering black opinion on cultural and political matters, said she worried about the effects of games like earlier versions of Grand Theft Auto on black youngsters, including her 11-year-old son. "These games don't teach them anything about respect, tolerance and responsibility," Ms. Iverem said, but are instead "validating a much-too-accepted stereotype, an accepted caricature."

It goes beyond ratings on a box. If i were a parent, a game called "Grand Theft Auto" would be highly suspect, and i'd want to see what it was about.

 

[Alcibiades]

wow, even some black people don't like CJ!!


i wish all these "parents" worried abotu what the games teach their young ones would READ THE FUCKING RATING ON THE BOX!

I don't think the issue is whether there are stupid/negligent parents out there (of course there will be, and I'm sure we all agree they shouldn't be stupid and should exercise better supervision over their children's activities), but rather what becomes of those with bad (or no) parents...

The simple way to fix this issue is to not allow 12-and-under (maybe 14-and-under) kids to buy Mature-rated videogame products (in spite of the whole rated-R issue, as they probably shouldn't be allowed to buy Robocop or Terminator). Just because they aren't doing it with movies, doesn't mean a practical solution shouldn't be applied in the case of videogames.

If they did this, then then groups and stuff wouldn't be given all this ammo about how kids could buy this game.

I understand free-speech and all, but there are restrictions for everything, and this would be a great way to shut up critics, since they'd be dealing with situations in which the M-rated games were either bought by older teens or parents.

That said, I don't think a 10-12 year old playing GTA would be as influential (not that they would do anything either way, but simply in terms of getting exposed to gruesome material and not getting quesy and stuff) as something more gritty like Manhunt.

 

[MetatronM]

BREAKING NEWS:

Mainstream news runs ill-informed and largely ignorant story about upcoming controversial game.

STAY TUNED FOR FURTHER DETAILS.

 

[SonicMegaDrive]

The simple way to fix this issue is to not allow 12-and-under (maybe 14-and-under) kids to buy Mature-rated videogame products (in spite of the whole rated-R issue, as they probably shouldn't be allowed to buy Robocop or Terminator). Just because they aren't doing it with movies, doesn't mean a practical solution shouldn't be applied in the case of videogames.

If they did this, then then groups and stuff wouldn't be given all this ammo about how kids could buy this game.

Actually, and I thought this was by federal law, at my job I can't legally sell an 'M' rated video game to anyone under the age of 17. Do some stores not ask for ID?

 

[MightyHedgehog]

Purchases based on game ratings aren't enforced by law. It's completely based on industry initiative.

 

[Alcibiades]

Actually, and I thought this was by federal law, at my job I can't legally sell an 'M' rated video game to anyone under the age of 17. Do some stores not ask for ID?

I believe it's mostly like Wal-Mart and Target that do

I remember seeing an MSNBC documentary about this in and in one part the register actually asked for the age of the buyer (since it was M-rated), and the employee (ignorant and all), just laughed and said "why does it ask for your age?" (my bet is she had no idea what she was selling)...

either way, no, it's not federal law, basically it's up to each retailer to have their own policy, but basically retailers are against any law like this since it would open them up for litigation if they don't properly train employees or if there is an unintentional sale to a minor...

I actually read many stores were going to start implementing standard policies on this, but I wonder how much it's actually working, and how many stores are using it?

Where do you work?

 

[The Faceless Master]

the stores i know do it in a halfhearted sort of way... like they don't ask regulars, and they don't ask for some games, but ask for games like manhunt if it's someone the don't recognize...

 

[SonicMegaDrive]

I work at a Wal-Mart, alright. I had no clue of this. Wow. Yeah, it's true, if a person tries to purchase an 'M' rated title, the register asks for and ID. Officially, if the person looks under 27, we are supposed to do it, much like purchasing a pack of cigarettes.

I do have a lot of kids trying to buy games like "Grand Theft Auto". Of course, I don't let them and they usually grab a parent to do it for them. Being the civic-minded person I am, I will remind the parent of the game's contents. 9/10 times, the parent ends up buying the game for their child anyway.

Yes, I believe this should be made a federal law. It's very disturbing that, in this era of video games, that it is not.

 

[MightyHedgehog]

Hmmm...the problem is that for this to become a federally regulated deal is that the government would have to have control over the subjective nature of the content...and that's something no one wants. It's different if it involves hardcore sex or something, but the video game industry (and movie industry) don't want any sort of federal control in these matters...far less chance of any sort of censorship.

 

[Alcibiades]

Hmmm...the problem is that for this to become a federally regulated deal is that the government would have to have control over the subjective nature of the content...and that's something no one wants. It's different if it involves hardcore sex or something, but the video game industry (and movie industry) don't want any sort of federal control in these matters...far less chance of any sort of censorship.

yeah, this would be a step in controlling creative content, unfortunately, retailers are doing a pretty crappy job...

heck, the issue never even comes up where I work in terms of getting mentioned in training (Best Buy), although I do alert some parents about the content (if they don't seem to know what their kids have)...

I bet it's the same in many places. A federal law would make less sense if retailers did more to control the purchases or M-rated (or certain) products.

 

[disabledHeliocentric]

What these groups don't want to admit is that they are bad parents. They don't pay attention to their children, support their kids, teach their kids the right lessons.
For example, I think a game like GTA would be a great opportunity for a parent to sit down with their adolescent and discuss its themes and its violence to help strengthen the child's moral mind and critical thinking skills in the face of a very real entertainment product that quite concretely reflects a pop culture as violent on the walkman and big screen as in the game(there's no escaping it!). And of course the parent should be supervising the kid often and setting the kid up in structured activities and be a loving supportive parent.
A lot of this effort to ban GTA would be better spent getting parents to do a better job rather than having big brother step in and dumb everything down so we can all be a bunch of feeble minded dogs who sit under tables begging for scraps.

 

[DarienA]

What these groups don't want to admit is that they are bad parents. They don't pay attention to their children, support their kids, teach their kids the right lessons.
For example, I think a game like GTA would be a great opportunity for a parent to sit down with their adolescent and discuss its themes and its violence to help strengthen the child's moral mind and critical thinking skills in the face of a very real entertainment product that quite concretely reflects a pop culture as violent on the walkman and big screen as in the game(there's no escaping it!). And of course the parent should be supervising the kid often and setting the kid up in structured activities and be a loving supportive parent.
A lot of this effort to ban GTA would be better spent getting parents to do a better job rather than having big brother step in and dumb everything down so we can all be a bunch of feeble minded dogs who sit under tables begging for scraps.

I SO agree with this post.

 

[MightyHedgehog]

What these groups don't want to admit is that they are bad parents. They don't pay attention to their children, support their kids, teach their kids the right lessons.
For example, I think a game like GTA would be a great opportunity for a parent to sit down with their adolescent and discuss its themes and its violence to help strengthen the child's moral mind and critical thinking skills in the face of a very real entertainment product that quite concretely reflects a pop culture as violent on the walkman and big screen as in the game(there's no escaping it!). And of course the parent should be supervising the kid often and setting the kid up in structured activities and be a loving supportive parent.
A lot of this effort to ban GTA would be better spent getting parents to do a better job rather than having big brother step in and dumb everything down so we can all be a bunch of feeble minded dogs who sit under tables begging for scraps.

Obviously. Still, in the US and much of the world, it seems...personal accountability means nothing anymore. Your kid gun down a half-dozen others while skipping school today? Put the blame on someone else and sue them tomorrow.

 

[dog$]

How many titles in this so-called wave of urban games is going to play on that kid's GBA?

 

[ChrisReid]

Yes, I believe this should be made a federal law. It's very disturbing that, in this era of video games, that it is not.

No, it would be disturbing and sickening if it were law. Were are the young and innocent kids getting the money for consoles and video games?

 

[Mashing]

Purchases based on game ratings aren't enforced by law. It's completely based on industry initiative.

Yup... and if the ESRB had any sort of power at all, they should levy fines against stores that do that.

 

[bob_arctor]

I don't understand how parents can be blamed for not being accountable yet companies like Rockstar aren't accountable for anything. I think it's bullshit. If anything, if it's so obvious that there are these massive droves of horrible parents running around letting their kids do whatever they want, shouldn't companies have some sort of common sense about these things? But fuck it, all I'm really pissed about was when the "urban", "hip-hop" lifestyle was shunned and looked upon with disdain--I miss those days. It was ours and not for sale at your local Wal-Mart.

 

[ge-man]

I don't understand how parents can be blamed for not being accountable yet companies like Rockstar aren't accountable for anything. I think it's bullshit. If anything, if it's so obvious that there are these massive droves of horrible parents running around letting their kids do whatever they want, shouldn't companies have some sort of common sense about these things?

All sides need to get their act together. It seems like lately there has been a movement to place all responiblity outside of that of the parent. Parents need to get back to raising their kids. Should a parent be really surpised about what their kids are going to get out of a game named Grand Theft Auto?

Developers also need to be more responsible as well. I understand the freedom of GTA is fun, but how important is it to wrap it up in a package of crime? Are the developers really ready to defend the merit of their games or are they going to just cop out and argue artistic license?

 

[ZombieSupaStar]

you dont see anyone panning scarface or gangster rap (insert other violent music genres) er wait actually you do, but its seems ok for these mediums to have it but not video games (marked clearly for adults?)


BAH to you

 

[ge-man]

you dont see anyone panning scarface or gangster rap (insert other violent music genres) er wait actually you do, but its seems ok for these mediums to have it but not video games (marked clearly for adults?)


BAH to you

Huh, films and music have gotten their fair share of shit for violence and obscenity. They still do. I think video games are in a tougher position because most still think that games are for kids after three decades.

Regardless, parents should do a better job and not be so quick attack companies.

 

[MaddenNFL64]

That kid just pimped the GBASP for free.

You da man kid!

 

[SolidSnakex]

Developers also need to be more responsible as well. I understand the freedom of GTA is fun, but how important is it to wrap it up in a package of crime? Are the developers really ready to defend the merit of their games or are they going to just cop out and argue artistic license?

They can just hide behind other forms of media that do the samething. Manufacturers have put a rating on the games just as films and music have ratings. Not much else they can do.

 

[MaddenNFL64]

The GTA franchise has no leg to stand on morally, but who gives a shit? The game is fun, free roaming, random, and full of crazy wanton violence .

The box will have a big M on it, and parents should know by now that the big M means "kids out of the pool".

 

[bob_arctor]

The GTA franchise has no leg to stand on morally, but who gives a shit? The game is fun, free roaming, random, and full of crazy wanton violence .

The box will have a big M on it, and parents should know by now that the big M means "kids out of the pool".

Yet, somehow, millions of kids will get their hands on it. I just don't get how the buck stops with the parents *only*--there are tons and tons of stores in these same "urban" neighborhoods GTA so precisely depicts where cash takes much more precedence over age or ratings. You're only 10 but have 60 dollars in your hand? Here's your copy.

But again, there's not much anyone can do, really.

Still, my main beef is just the constant whoring of the urban/hip-hop mythos--I really do miss the 80's when the culture was still just that.

 

[rastex]

You know, I'm actually curious to see if the ethnicity of the protagonist in GTA:SA will actually have a negative impact on its sales. I don't have any studies to back me up, but I think it's darn safe to say that the majority of game players are asian/white. There's a significant minority that are well... minorities but it seems the larger number of players are asian/white. Now I'm extremely curious to see if the current love-affair the western pop world has with hip-hop culture is strong enough such that the majority demographic actually wants to play/be a black man.

I think the game is going to be a huge massive hit when it comes to minorities, but my cynical self thinks the majority demographic are going to be turned off by the protagonist, and I think that will have a significant impact on its sales. I really really hope I'm wrong. If I am, then that'd be GREAT and will hopefully open the doors for a more diverse cast of leading characters in games, just as the original GTA3 opened the doors for living-world gameplay to the mainstream.

 

[DaCocoBrova]

I don't have any studies to back me up, but I think it's darn safe to say that the majority of game players are asian/white.

lol!

Maybe in like the mid-west... lol!

 

[Kai Dracon]

While the press remains reactionary, sensationalist, and generally ignorant, I've no love lost for Rockstar and their ilk. In thinking back on the opinions of gamers who are also parents, yes, I think that it's both sides who need responsibility. I think Manhunt was the game that made me lose a great deal of what respect I did have for Rockstar - entirely apart from the questionable quality of the game itself.

I almost have to wonder: the black protaganist in GTA:SA is, for people who've paid attention to the fine details of the story, not so much of a "bad guy" - but more a guy caught in the wrong place and time. Did somebody at Rockstar actually stop and think: "Dudes, we'd better like, throw a bone out on this one, like, dudes, after Manhunt. Then we can go back to SOP after GTA:SA!"

 

[SonicMegaDrive]

I think most of us, and this goes for everybody in the United States, seriously underestimate just how BAD most of the parents in this country are. True, the government shouldn't regulate the production and sale of movies and software. If anything they should regulate how these putrid parents are raising thier kids. Problem is, we can't force these negligent parents to raise thier kids correctly. Half of these people are dumber than thier children.

 

[djtiesto]

My friend and I thought it would be pretty interesting for the next GTA game to have a woman as a protagonist...

 

[SolidSnakex]

My friend and I thought it would be pretty interesting for the next GTA game to have a woman as a protagonist...

That'd cause a bigger backlash than having a black main character has caused.

 

[andthebeatgoeson]

Goddamn it, it's gonna be a big deal now. One of the best games of the year, if not the best game will have all types of shit heaped on it cuz they finally included a Black character. Fuck my people...sometimes. Actually, fuck all people against videogames who watch from afar. This is no different from your favorite movie and will get shitted on cuz Rockstar makes an effort to include a black character. Damned if you do, damned if you don't.

I hope they don't alter a goddamn thing.

 

[Swordian]

How many titles in this so-called wave of urban games is going to play on that kid's GBA?

Urban Yeti