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Obama Administration Announces Massive Piracy Crackdown
- Thread starter Lkr
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WickedAngel said:
The entire basis for pirating revolves around a value inequality that hasn't been proven yet.
"I'm pirating this content because it's not worth $X to me with all the strings attached."
"But how do you know? Maybe this good enough that its value to you will outweigh its monetary costs and said strings."
"I'll let you know after I pirate it and watch/listen to/play it. If it's good I'll pay for it. Honest!"
This "victimless crime" bullshit is simply bad logic. A pirated copy is in fact lost revenue. 1 pirated copy is between 0 and 1 lost sales. Determining that number is irrelevant. It is against the law, it is wrong, and it is punishable by established prison sentences and fines. If you disagree with the law, then get it changed. To fly in the face of the law and cry when it is enforced is simply retarded.
This has actually been brought up multiple times so far. But this is a piracy thread, so there really isn't any interest in a real debate or discussion. People will just voice their opinions, no matter what the side, fail to come to a compromise, and insist that the other side are worthless thieves or corporate dick suckers. Like a political thread or an Isreal thread, you should just be prepared that when you click the link, you will see bad arguments and little rational debate.ColtraineGF said:
Stumpokapow
listen to the mad man
Mudkips said:
This is not true in all or even many jurisdictions.
I think it should be self-evident why this quote can't apply to any law, just or unjust.
otake said:
So you are saying it would be okay if people put the videso on BT WITH the commercials still on there? You wouldn't have a problem with that? It's the removal of the commercials that upsets you?
Ok then, that is why it is stupid for them to go after individuals. Go after those who are encoding the commercial-free shows and putting them online. Leave the individual downloaders of tv shows alone!
LM4sure said:
It'd still be technically illegal, and there'd still be revnue loss because it would exclude local commercial time bought that would have aired during the show, but it is still better than none.
It's still illegal and if they company wants to spend their money to sue individuals, that is their prerogative.
Maybe the individual downloaders should leave the tv shows alone if they don't want to be sued.
ColtraineGF
Member
Then again, if you were watching them on a DVR, you've in a sense already 'paid' in a way for the show, regardless of whether you watch the commercials or not, since you have to have the channel it aired on in order to record a show off it in the first place.LM4sure said:
Unless you're not talking about that kind of DVR...
Eh, I'll try anyway, because it seems that the discussion could've gone differently had people gone to that link instead of the other one.Madman said:
ColtraineGF
Member
Well, I'm not sure of the situation for free OTA TV. I'm guessing that advertisers pay for ad spots during certain programs, based on its popularity, which they gauge by Nielsen ratings here in the US, so I'm not sure that people actually pay for OTA TV in that case.LM4sure said:
I would guess that the effect that torrenting free shows that case would cause a sort of effect, in that people are not watching certain shows at specific times on certain stations, which causes less views and less ad $. The response from most OTA networks is to put the shows up on their respective websites for free (like ABC, for instance), which enables them to yet again track views, and get money. If they offer a download from their site, they can track that too, and get paid appropriately.
The marginal cost of a pirated copy is zero. If the person would have bought the item the marginal revenue lost is the profit they would have received from selling the good. No economic damage is done unless the person intended to buy the product. For a forum that's so fast to strike down religious values, it's surprising they are so fast to want protection from the "ethical" damage of piracy.otake said:
Dreams-Visions
Member
you clearly are!Kintaco said:
scum.
WickedAngel
Banned
Kintaco said:
I hope the government catches you and cuts off your hands.
Stumpokapow said:
This thread is about the Obama Administration, and thus the US, the entirety of which falls under federal law, including the DMCA.
This is a representative democracy. There is an established, legal way for citizens to change the laws. However difficult or infeasible it may be (due to corruption, money hatting, or your opinion just plain being unpopular so you can't get any support) doesn't matter - the following hold true.
To blatantly violate the law and cry when punished accordingly is retarded.
To cry about the law itself and not attempt to change it is retarded.
To blatantly violate the law and willingly accept your punishment can be seen by other people either as retarded or as a noble form of protest, depending on whether that person thinks the law is just or unjust.
Stumpokapow
listen to the mad man
Mudkips said:
"Who cares if the game is rigged? Shut up and deal with it" isn't exactly an excellent argument about anything.
The article in the OP seems built to paint the current US administration and Joe Biden as nothing more then a bunch of overzealous morons.
Even mentioning the phrase "thought crime" is an easy way to get thousands of people, nerds or no, riled up.
Going by my passing knowledge of american laws the amount of years and steps required to come anywhere close to passing that kind of law are many. Then even if they decide to say " yeah it's now illegal to even search for a torrent", going again by varying types of repealed laws, all it would take is one case to pop up and 1 lawyer argues it's against a persons rights to assume they'll commit a crime and bam, law is finished.
I'm firmly in the stance with piracy that in a country with free speech and personal privacy it's basically impossible to enforce any laws that stand to persecute offenders.
There are definitely some hardcore pirates out there that just download everything illegally with no intent of ever purchasing anything aside from a pc and monthly highspeed internet access. I fail to believe that every pirate or even most pirates fit into this group though. When they have a 100% foolproof way of separating these kinds of pirates from everyone else (and I'd wager that everyone is guilty of piracy) then I feel the only sentence that will be fair at that point is to take that guys computer away from him for life. Ridiculous sums of cash or jail time won't do shit, tell a nerd he cant' have internet access if he resorts to fulltime pirating though and it might actually scare them straight
Even mentioning the phrase "thought crime" is an easy way to get thousands of people, nerds or no, riled up.
Going by my passing knowledge of american laws the amount of years and steps required to come anywhere close to passing that kind of law are many. Then even if they decide to say " yeah it's now illegal to even search for a torrent", going again by varying types of repealed laws, all it would take is one case to pop up and 1 lawyer argues it's against a persons rights to assume they'll commit a crime and bam, law is finished.
I'm firmly in the stance with piracy that in a country with free speech and personal privacy it's basically impossible to enforce any laws that stand to persecute offenders.
There are definitely some hardcore pirates out there that just download everything illegally with no intent of ever purchasing anything aside from a pc and monthly highspeed internet access. I fail to believe that every pirate or even most pirates fit into this group though. When they have a 100% foolproof way of separating these kinds of pirates from everyone else (and I'd wager that everyone is guilty of piracy) then I feel the only sentence that will be fair at that point is to take that guys computer away from him for life. Ridiculous sums of cash or jail time won't do shit, tell a nerd he cant' have internet access if he resorts to fulltime pirating though and it might actually scare them straight
Freyjadour
Member
Piracy is like the go to subject for bad arguments.
WanderingWind
Mecklemore Is My Favorite Wrapper
Stumpokapow said:
Neither is stealing things that you want and then rationalizing your behavior afterward.
How is this in any fashion acceptable? None of these things - music, movies or games - are necessities of life. You do not deserve these things given to you. If the companies supplying them are participating in acts you do not agree with, do not buy their products. Find free alternatives, of which there are many, or support companies you do agree with.
Or, maybe, just maybe, do the fuck without. You are not a political activist by downloading episodes of Dexter because you don't want to pay for Showtime, Netflix or TiVo. You're taking what you want without offering up compensation. It's not theft in the "removes the item" sense, but a thief you still remain.
If you want free shit, just admit you want free shit. Don't try to dress your desires up in the cloth of righteousness. You look ridiculous.
Administration announces what is essentially the status quo and GAF manages to turn it into a 5 page argument. News at 11
This is like having a meltdown because Microsoft puts out a PR that says they are going to charge $50. They were required by law to appoint a Copyright Czar and put out this plan. The plan says they aren't going to do anything significantly different, but they have plans to plan more in the future. Here is the analysis on Ars: http://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/...for-transparency-in-copyright-enforcement.ars
This is like having a meltdown because Microsoft puts out a PR that says they are going to charge $50. They were required by law to appoint a Copyright Czar and put out this plan. The plan says they aren't going to do anything significantly different, but they have plans to plan more in the future. Here is the analysis on Ars: http://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/...for-transparency-in-copyright-enforcement.ars
Kai Dracon
Writing a dinosaur space opera symphony
Mudkips said:
So basically, there's no point in trying to "go through the channels" to change some laws because the system may be totally corrupted.
And despite the fact that no point in trying, it's still "retarded" to protest this state of affairs, when you "didn't try to change things".
This is not kindergarden. You don't get a sugar cookie and a glass of orange juice for putting the pretend cups and plates back into the pretend kitchen where no actual cooking can take place just because somebody says you should do it to be a good little boy.
Let's see - since so many people seem able to agree that the system is hopelessly corrupt thanks to money and lobby influences, perhaps everybody who wishes to complain about the stupidity, wastefulness, irrationality, and unfairness of various laws related to copyright infringement should just go along with the pretend play and preface their complaints by saying they've already contributed their paltry donation to a useless campaign to get those laws changed.
It would have the same net effect (zero), and satisfy those with an overdeveloped sense of capitalistic justice on behalf of the media giants using their influence to break the system and treat their customers like potential criminals in the first place.
Its safe to say that most forward-thinking western democracies hate the internet with a massive passion. What we're currently seeing is classic back door politicking in action; the freedom of info is inherently dangerous to those in the higher echelons of control (not Mandelson, Bono, or even Obama (lol)).
One of the first rules of stealth internet regulating is to create an intellectual cul de sac, which would be the creation of a new opiate for the proletariat, which would be something like getting shit for free, for a few years, which would lead to a sense of false entitlement. This current thing is the thin tip of a big iceberg.
They don't like the internet, much like we don't like motion controls.
One of the first rules of stealth internet regulating is to create an intellectual cul de sac, which would be the creation of a new opiate for the proletariat, which would be something like getting shit for free, for a few years, which would lead to a sense of false entitlement. This current thing is the thin tip of a big iceberg.
They don't like the internet, much like we don't like motion controls.
Fix this shit Obama!... o wait.
The music industry is dead. I see at least one band a week live. Most of the time I know the door guy or the band and I get in for free. Sometimes I even record the show! Am I a pirate? I am consuming and making a recording of stuff I didn't pay for.
Pandora makes the radio or even downloading mp3s pretty irrelevant. I've downloaded a lot of songs in the past but I also own more music on physical media than most people I know.
Movies theaters fucking suck. I will generally wait for the bluray to come out, or wait even longer for it to show up on premium cable channels. If I could pay $10 or so and watch a new release movie in my house I would. Right now I can pay $10 and watch a movie already out in a superior format (bluray) or get the same quality as pay per view for free... I own allot of blurays that where downloaded 1st. Of course there are some that fucking suck, they get deleted and too bad.
I don't really pirate games because I am more of a collector these days than a player. With downloadable demos for just about everything (and GAF as a reference) there is really no reason to) Back in the dreamcast days when I was unemployed boy howdy did I pirate some shit. Sorry SEGA.
IDK I see piracy more as a means of previewing content to see if it's worth my time/money. I don't have a huge drive filled with shit, I delete pretty much everything I download and either buy it or tell everyone how bad it sucks.
In effect some companies are losing money - the ones that suck. Sure I may have been tricked into buying a shitty movie and they would of gotten my money if I couldn't preview most things for free. But on the flipside there are things I buy that I would of never gambled on without knowing what it was 1st. I can't even count the number of bands I would of never even heard of if someone didn't send me an mp3.
Really the pirates are giving me what I want. A convenient way to preview content and make an informed purchasing decision. The industry should really focus on that - and they have to a certain extent (hulu and stuff) but there is so much shit out there you would have to spend a small fortune and amass a pile of useless plastic to buy everything you wanted to see if it was even any good.
The music industry is dead. I see at least one band a week live. Most of the time I know the door guy or the band and I get in for free. Sometimes I even record the show! Am I a pirate? I am consuming and making a recording of stuff I didn't pay for.
Pandora makes the radio or even downloading mp3s pretty irrelevant. I've downloaded a lot of songs in the past but I also own more music on physical media than most people I know.
Movies theaters fucking suck. I will generally wait for the bluray to come out, or wait even longer for it to show up on premium cable channels. If I could pay $10 or so and watch a new release movie in my house I would. Right now I can pay $10 and watch a movie already out in a superior format (bluray) or get the same quality as pay per view for free... I own allot of blurays that where downloaded 1st. Of course there are some that fucking suck, they get deleted and too bad.
I don't really pirate games because I am more of a collector these days than a player. With downloadable demos for just about everything (and GAF as a reference) there is really no reason to) Back in the dreamcast days when I was unemployed boy howdy did I pirate some shit. Sorry SEGA.
IDK I see piracy more as a means of previewing content to see if it's worth my time/money. I don't have a huge drive filled with shit, I delete pretty much everything I download and either buy it or tell everyone how bad it sucks.
In effect some companies are losing money - the ones that suck. Sure I may have been tricked into buying a shitty movie and they would of gotten my money if I couldn't preview most things for free. But on the flipside there are things I buy that I would of never gambled on without knowing what it was 1st. I can't even count the number of bands I would of never even heard of if someone didn't send me an mp3.
Really the pirates are giving me what I want. A convenient way to preview content and make an informed purchasing decision. The industry should really focus on that - and they have to a certain extent (hulu and stuff) but there is so much shit out there you would have to spend a small fortune and amass a pile of useless plastic to buy everything you wanted to see if it was even any good.
fortified_concept
Banned
Osietra said:
Interesting post. I always thought that they'll use child pornography as the excuse to censor the internet but you might be right or at least more right than me.
I don't imagine those make up the majority of pirates. Or half. Or a quarter.DeathbyVolcano said:
Is it? No, I don't think so. If I decide not to buy a DVD on a store shelf, there's no lost revenue there.
If you mean pirating a copy (thus not paying for it), that's certainly lost revenue.
Of course there is. You not buying a DVD on a store shelf is revenue that the company could have had but didn't. There's a chance that they will at a later date gather some revenue as a result of this lost sale. When you download something and don't buy it, that's also lost revenue.Yasae said:
blame space
Banned
:lol bamghst said:
The people who win the most on this are the organized criminals that sell pirated goods to fund other activities.
When it becomes unsafe to google torrents for your own use, are you going to go to HMV and drop 20 bucks on a DVD or to Chinatown and grab the pirated dvd for 50 cents?
When it becomes unsafe to google torrents for your own use, are you going to go to HMV and drop 20 bucks on a DVD or to Chinatown and grab the pirated dvd for 50 cents?
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