Obama: "Trayvon Martin could have been me."

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it annoys me when people act like race isn't an issue anymore.

"It's 2013!" seems to be the excuse people use. as if we are so far into the future now that things somehow have been left in the past.

it means nothing, and it couldn't be further from the truth. just because the year we are living in sounds futuristic doesn't mean standing issues somehow fade away.
 
There's this weird idea in America going around that black people are always getting away with something. I can see why that would be more believable after the civil rights movement than it was before then.

Yeah, that's what animates a lot of the Zimmerman defense force. It's the if-he-didn't-do-this-he-did-something sentiment, which is far more prevalent than any society should have. And black people are overwhelmingly disproportionate victims of this kind of reactionary thinking. It doesn't really matter what either Martin or Zimmerman did that night as long as white people can be persuaded that Martin "did something," i.e., was a "thug" and hence a person the world is better off without. That was the purpose of the campaign to assassinate Martin's character (always an easy job if the target is a black person). And it's also why Zimmerman can be and is held up as a hero by many.
 
For someone in a position of political authority like the POTUS to comment publicly before a trial has begun or all the facts have come to light is socially irresponsible imo. It doesn't matter whether or not you agree with his assessment, he was basically robbing Zimmerman of his constitutionally guaranteed right to a fair trial.
 
For someone in a position of political authority like the POTUS to comment publicly before a trial has begun or all the facts have come to light is socially irresponsible imo. It doesn't matter whether or not you agree with his assessment, he was basically robbing Zimmerman of his constitutionally guaranteed right to a fair trial.

Better than being robbed of your life.
 
What are you even getting at? This has nothing to do with Zimmerman's guilt or innocence. It's about Obama's lack of discretion.

Lack of discretion? He's shining light on something that has been simmering for far too long.

It's the fact that a certain group of people don't even have a chance to get to the legal system before even commiting any sort of crime.
 
Yeah, that's what animates a lot of the Zimmerman defense force. It's the if-he-didn't-do-this-he-did-something sentiment, which is far more prevalent than any society should have. And black people are overwhelmingly disproportionate victims of this kind of reactionary thinking. It doesn't really matter what either Martin or Zimmerman did that night as long as white people can be persuaded that Martin "did something," i.e., was a "thug" and hence a person the world is better off without. That was the purpose of the campaign to assassinate Martin's character (always an easy job if the target is a black person). And it's also why Zimmerman can be and is held up as a hero by many.

I'm sorry can you show me where people say the world is better off without Martin? It's a freaking tragedy that anyone died, but Martin was no angel either. Suspended for school what twice? three times? Once for weed, once for burglary suspicions? His own mother kicked him out of the house a few times? Pictures of weed, smoking weed, and illegal guns? Tweets from friends asking if he beat a bus driver? I don't know anyone that holds Zimmerman as a hero. There was nothing heroic about it. It was tragic. Being a responsible gun owner and neighborhood watch, Zimmerman should have been carrying some pepper spray. Appropriate force for appropriate situations, but hindsight is 20/20.
 
I'm sorry can you show me where people say the world is better off without Martin? It's a freaking tragedy that anyone died, but Martin was no angel either. Suspended for school what twice? three times? Once for weed, once for burglary suspicions? His own mother kicked him out of the house a few times? Pictures of weed, smoking weed, and illegal guns? Tweets from friends asking if he beat a bus driver? I don't know anyone that holds Zimmerman as a hero. There was nothing heroic about it. It was tragic. Being a responsible gun owner and neighborhood watch, Zimmerman should have been carrying some pepper spray. Appropriate force for appropriate situations, but hindsight is 20/20.

People are still doing this fuck shit?
 
I've looked at houses so much while on my walks. But no one will suspect me of anything. If only people could just dissect their privilege and the disadvantages of others without making a big deal about it and possibly changing their attitudes that perpetuate the bullshit.
Indeed.

Thats rich, coming from Obama.

Sadly, his moral ground is seriously compromised by so many of his actions.
 
That system is not as great as you are making it to be and I'm pretty sure the trial is over so what does the president's comments matter?
He already commented last year, saying "If I had a son, he’d look like Trayvon”. This is just another extension of that. Again, it doesn't even matter if you agree with Obama, it's an abuse of his pulpit. I don't look upon him any more kindly than the Republican jackasses who decided to interject themselves into the Terri Schiavo case.
 
False equivalence. We have a system to hold people accountable for their actions without politicians muddying the process.



Which utterly failed because of politicians muddying the process with bullshit "self-defense-esque" Florida laws. (hint Zimmerman would be in jail in almost every single other state.)



It's not an abuse of his position. It needs to be fixed, and racism is real.
 
I'm sorry can you show me where people say the world is better off without Martin? It's a freaking tragedy that anyone died, but Martin was no angel either. Suspended for school what twice? three times? Once for weed, once for burglary suspicions? His own mother kicked him out of the house a few times? Pictures of weed, smoking weed, and illegal guns? Tweets from friends asking if he beat a bus driver? I don't know anyone that holds Zimmerman as a hero. There was nothing heroic about it. It was tragic. Being a responsible gun owner and neighborhood watch, Zimmerman should have been carrying some pepper spray. Appropriate force for appropriate situations, but hindsight is 20/20.

Wow you're just a wealth of bullshit aren't you. Not only is some of that complete bullshit but it is also completely irrelevant to Trayvon being killed. Trayvon wasn't on trial Zimmerman was.

What you are doing is victim blaming, it is dangerously close to saying he deserved to die. With that post, your agenda here becomes perfectly clear.
 
False equivalence. We have a system to hold people accountable for their actions without politicians muddying the process.

I do think you might hold the American judicial system in a little too high regard. We do indeed have systems in place to hold people accountable for their actions, systems built by lesiglators not all of whom have the best intentions or intelligence. There is something to be said for restraint, but sometimes there's also something to be said for speaking out. There are no principles that hold for all situations.
 
People are still doing this fuck shit?
why not bold the entire post? its sad that so many people dont know anything, yet know he had a significant part in getting shot to death, because of pictures of "illegal guns."

the facts are all out there. but people can't seem to Google.
 
The dismissive and generally bitter reactions of some people towards Obama's comments really highlight a closing of the mind that has been going on for decades. Race and racism are complex issues that have not gone away, and will not go away. Yet racism today is still seen through the prism or either slavery or the 1960s: beatings, lynchings, blatant segregation. Because most if not all of these major things are not happening in 2013, and because we now have a black president, some seem quite convinced race is no longer an issue. And because of that, race has been swept under a rug. Any discussion of differences among races or racism is liable to be attacked as fostering discontent or ill - as if the mere mention of racism today will suddenly revive it from its deep slumber.

As Obama mentioned, racial profiling is not some long dead practice. It happens every day, every hour in this country. And the Zimmerman case, right or wrong, is seen entirely through that lens by many black people. If a person has spent most of his life being blatantly racially profiled during trips to the corner store, or while walking late at night, it should not come as a surprise that they view Zimmerman confronting Martin as an issue of profiling. After all, Martin went to a corner store and then attempted to go home before being pursued by someone. Zimmerman called 911 and complained about "these assholes" always getting away with crimes. Is it any surprise that black people, specifically black men, identify with Martin? We have been "those assholes" for most of our lives.

The general retort to all of this is that Zimmerman had black friends, and therefore clearly was not racist. Which, again, goes back to the point about racism as a concept being simplified today. Zimmerman never lynched a black person, nor did he refuse to serve a black person at a restaurant - therefore he's clearly not racist. I don't know whether Zimmerman is racist or not. Nor do I believe every white woman who hurriedly crosses the street (in broad daylight) when I'm behind her is racist. But I believe that Zimmerman assumed Martin was up to no good due to who he was: a young black male. Or, a young "dark" male if you want to harp on Zimmerman telling the operator that he thought Martin was black; I think it's safe to say he knew he was not white.

As long as we continue to shrink discussions of race, and get outraged that we're even discussing racism in 2013, we will always have this problem. Racism will always be seen as a double edged sword to many white people: to them, they feel as if they're being accused of something, as if racism is their fault or their grandfather's fault, as if we cannot discuss racism without putting white people on trial. And to those people I would simply say, imagine that feeling of assumed guilt nagging at you every day, every hour, every minute, for years. Decades. Every time you go into a store late at night, or every time you're driving in a nice car, or every time you accidentally lock yourself out your house and are outside looking for the key. Perhaps then you will know how many black people feel to an extent, and why this case is so personal to us.

This is the greatest post PD has ever made on GAF.

Bravo my friend.

I agree 100%.
 
I do think you might hold the American judicial system in a little too high regard. We do indeed have systems in place to hold people accountable for their actions, systems built by lesiglators not all of whom have the best intentions or intelligence. There is something to be said for restraint, but sometimes there's also something to be said for speaking out. There are no principles that hold for all situations.
Don't get me wrong. The judicial system is far from unimpeachable, and there is certainly corruption or institutional shortcomings that need to be addressed. That's very different than the POTUS commenting on a specific criminal case. Personally I think this is cynical political opportunism thinly veiled as empathy, and the White House is happy to steer attention towards something that's a relative triviality next to stuff like the NSA leaks or plans to invade Syria. Considering the policies of his administration on interrogation, drone strikes, extraordinary rendition, national security etc. I'm prone to extreme skepticism about Obama's moral compass. What happened to Trayvon is unfortunate, but not as galling or insidious as the systematic abuse of authority Obama has helped codify, and his comments ring hollow imo.
 
What would you rather be born.

Black or White in the USA.


If you answer isnt 'I dont care'.

Then there is still a problem.

Also, race relations are a triviality? It affects millions of Americans every day. Its more important then a million NSAs or Syrias to any decent American.

This is more then about one simple case. And that you cant see that, is part of the problem.
 
I'm sorry can you show me where people say the world is better off without Martin? It's a freaking tragedy that anyone died, but Martin was no angel either. Suspended for school what twice? three times? Once for weed, once for burglary suspicions? His own mother kicked him out of the house a few times? Pictures of weed, smoking weed, and illegal guns? Tweets from friends asking if he beat a bus driver? I don't know anyone that holds Zimmerman as a hero. There was nothing heroic about it. It was tragic. Being a responsible gun owner and neighborhood watch, Zimmerman should have been carrying some pepper spray. Appropriate force for appropriate situations, but hindsight is 20/20.
With that logic and victim blaming, women who were promiscuous and wearing provocative clothing at the time of rape weren't angels either.

Your post is full of ignorance and it shows your stance on this issue.
 
I get people who would rather our President keep his distance from hot button issues...if he came out and said "the verdict is unjust", I might even agree with you (even though I, too, see the verdict as unjust...the letter of the law was followed, for better or worse).

But expressing empathy for the young victim of this crime is hardly controversial, and if you find it divisive to show empathy I really have to question your judgement.

It's almost like anything that makes white people uncomfortable is by its very nature controversial. Obama's comments are literally a simple display of empathy followed by sensible suggestions as to how to avoid similar occurrences in the future.

I never pictured Obama as the type to have a picture of a gun on his bed.

Trayvon was a gangster wanna-be, something Obama wasn't.

I'm sorry can you show me where people say the world is better off without Martin? It's a freaking tragedy that anyone died, but Martin was no angel either. Suspended for school what twice? three times? Once for weed, once for burglary suspicions? His own mother kicked him out of the house a few times? Pictures of weed, smoking weed, and illegal guns? Tweets from friends asking if he beat a bus driver? I don't know anyone that holds Zimmerman as a hero. There was nothing heroic about it. It was tragic. Being a responsible gun owner and neighborhood watch, Zimmerman should have been carrying some pepper spray. Appropriate force for appropriate situations, but hindsight is 20/20.

It's sad watching people (idiotically) rationalize their lack of empathy. No, it's fucking disturbing.
 
Cool. So Zimmerman knew his criminal record and was following him on just grounds and not just because he was black.

Oh wait.

Thats the inescapable fact here. The one that matters.
 
He already commented last year, saying "If I had a son, he’d look like Trayvon”. This is just another extension of that. Again, it doesn't even matter if you agree with Obama, it's an abuse of his pulpit. I don't look upon him any more kindly than the Republican jackasses who decided to interject themselves into the Terri Schiavo case.

Did you read the president's comments on the case yesterday? He did not even mention the verdict as to whether he agrees with it or not. All he said regarding it was that the law has spoken. His broader statements regarding trayvon martin were in relation to the african american experience and why people are upset with the verdict. I don't understand how you see that as a bully pulpit to a verdict he has accepted.

He commented on stand your ground laws and as the president of the united states that is well within his right to do so.
 
Don't get me wrong. The judicial system is far from unimpeachable, and there is certainly corruption or institutional shortcomings that need to be addressed. That's very different than the POTUS commenting on a specific criminal case. Personally I think this is cynical political opportunism thinly veiled as empathy, and the White House is happy to steer attention towards something that's a relative triviality next to stuff like the NSA leaks or plans to invade Syria. Considering the policies of his administration on interrogation, drone strikes, extraordinary rendition, national security etc. I'm prone to extreme skepticism about Obama's moral compass. What happened to Trayvon is unfortunate, but not as galling or insidious as the systematic abuse of authority Obama has helped codify, and his comments ring hollow imo.

I don't disagree with you about exercising skepticism about Obama's moral compass, although I'm more inclined to viewing these things systemically than on an individual level. Still, regardless of Obama's sincerity (although I think he is) and any other political calculations, it's a good thing in my opinion in terms of practical progress for racial justice in the US for him to have spoken out about this.
 
I'm sorry can you show me where people say the world is better off without Martin? It's a freaking tragedy that anyone died, but Martin was no angel either. Suspended for school what twice? three times? Once for weed, once for burglary suspicions? His own mother kicked him out of the house a few times? Pictures of weed, smoking weed, and illegal guns? Tweets from friends asking if he beat a bus driver? I don't know anyone that holds Zimmerman as a hero. There was nothing heroic about it. It was tragic. Being a responsible gun owner and neighborhood watch, Zimmerman should have been carrying some pepper spray. Appropriate force for appropriate situations, but hindsight is 20/20.

I like how you got all indignant at EV's suggestion that people are attempting to justify Martin's death then proceeded to do just that.
 
It's almost like anything that makes white people uncomfortable is by its very nature controversial. Obama's comments are literally a simple display of empathy followed by sensible suggestions as to how to avoid similar occurrences in the future.





It's sad watching people (idiotically) rationalize their lack of empathy. No, it's fucking disturbing.
It's very disturbing reading how others put TM on trial and shift the onus onto him of how he should have done everything right that night while disregarding Zimmerman's actions.
 
I'm sorry but how did we elect him again? and I'm out.

You went to these things called polls, and stood inside these small little curtained off areas that contained a digital voting machine, it asks you who you want to be your President among other things, and you select the one you want.
 
You went to these things called polls, and stood inside these small little curtained off areas that contained a digital voting machine, it asks you who you want to be your President among other things, and you select the one you want.

I think he was implying that old bullshit argument that because America elected him twice, racism is #dead.

And he's out.
 
The dismissive and generally bitter reactions of some people towards Obama's comments really highlight a closing of the mind that has been going on for decades. Race and racism are complex issues that have not gone away, and will not go away. Yet racism today is still seen through the prism or either slavery or the 1960s: beatings, lynchings, blatant segregation. Because most if not all of these major things are not happening in 2013, and because we now have a black president, some seem quite convinced race is no longer an issue. And because of that, race has been swept under a rug. Any discussion of differences among races or racism is liable to be attacked as fostering discontent or ill - as if the mere mention of racism today will suddenly revive it from its deep slumber.

As Obama mentioned, racial profiling is not some long dead practice. It happens every day, every hour in this country. And the Zimmerman case, right or wrong, is seen entirely through that lens by many black people. If a person has spent most of his life being blatantly racially profiled during trips to the corner store, or while walking late at night, it should not come as a surprise that they view Zimmerman confronting Martin as an issue of profiling. After all, Martin went to a corner store and then attempted to go home before being pursued by someone. Zimmerman called 911 and complained about "these assholes" always getting away with crimes. Is it any surprise that black people, specifically black men, identify with Martin? We have been "those assholes" for most of our lives.

The general retort to all of this is that Zimmerman had black friends, and therefore clearly was not racist. Which, again, goes back to the point about racism as a concept being simplified today. Zimmerman never lynched a black person, nor did he refuse to serve a black person at a restaurant - therefore he's clearly not racist. I don't know whether Zimmerman is racist or not. Nor do I believe every white woman who hurriedly crosses the street (in broad daylight) when I'm behind her is racist. But I believe that Zimmerman assumed Martin was up to no good due to who he was: a young black male. Or, a young "dark" male if you want to harp on Zimmerman telling the operator that he thought Martin was black; I think it's safe to say he knew he was not white.

As long as we continue to shrink discussions of race, and get outraged that we're even discussing racism in 2013, we will always have this problem. Racism will always be seen as a double edged sword to many white people: to them, they feel as if they're being accused of something, as if racism is their fault or their grandfather's fault, as if we cannot discuss racism without putting white people on trial. And to those people I would simply say, imagine that feeling of assumed guilt nagging at you every day, every hour, every minute, for years. Decades. Every time you go into a store late at night, or every time you're driving in a nice car, or every time you accidentally lock yourself out your house and are outside looking for the key. Perhaps then you will know how many black people feel to an extent, and why this case is so personal to us.

So I live in Eastern, WA near the border of ID. I have a buddy at work who identifies with the Constitutional party, huge 2nd Amendment supporter, carries a weapon outside of work, and supports Ted Cruz. I'm a liberal, white male, married to a black woman. We discuss politics daily and have spent a lot of time with the Zimmerman case. It's actually great because we respect eachother so no feelings are hurt in the end. Due to our mutual respect we're able to discuss EVERYTHING from religion to politics to race.

My buddy doesn't see race being a motivator in Zimmerman's response to Trayvon walking down the street. He doesn't see race being an element in the acquittal of Zimmerman nor in the Stand Your Ground Laws. He has a huge problem with black people being able to use the N' word while also taking issue with non blacks who use it. He believes that while there is still racial injustice in this country that everybody has to move on or else nothing will change.

My buddy admits he hasn't been around too many black people and really doesn't understand what they go through. I tried explaining to him exactly what you laid out. Race may not have played a role in Zimmerman's mind but as a black person (and I'm just going by black folks that I have spoken to including my wife and her family) it's extremely difficult to separate one's experience from what may or may not have taken place. Each of us have our own reality that develops out of our own experiences. Our sufferings, our joy, our persecution shapes who we are and our world view.

It's no wonder that often black people may experience racism even though the other person isn't acting in a racist manner. This is something that I'm still having to adjust to with my wife. We have had multiple times where we'll be in a store at the mall (say Express) and the cashier will say or do something that offends my wife. I don't see anything but she does. I can't tell her 'oh babe, you're imagining it' or 'stop being so sensitive' because at the end of the day she has experienced racism and persecution so often that it's extremely difficult to separate what is from what it may be.

I probably am rambling by now so I apologize but in my own experience I agree with what you're saying. It's unfortunate that for so many people, everything is either black or white. With my buddy I honestly don't believe he's racist, I just think he's ignorant due to lack of exposure which he readily admits. It's easy for those of us who don't live in a world where we must wonder about race on a day to day occurrence to wish for and believe that if we just get along everything will be fine. That to focus on race keeps racism alive. Racism is alive and the more we all can discuss it openly the better we'll all be.
 
I don't think that's quite the same.

How about: I see someone defending Zimmerman in an argument, and running down Martin as "not an innocent angel." Aha! I happen to know that this is something that many racists also do! So I assume this person is racist and start following them around, and call up the PeeCee thought police. Then the person gets weirded out by my following them, we have an altercation where it's not entirely clear who started it, and I permaban their account.

Also I kill them.

Haha this is the best post in this thread
 
I'm sorry can you show me where people say the world is better off without Martin? It's a freaking tragedy that anyone died, but Martin was no angel either. Suspended for school what twice? three times? Once for weed, once for burglary suspicions? His own mother kicked him out of the house a few times? Pictures of weed, smoking weed, and illegal guns? Tweets from friends asking if he beat a bus driver? I don't know anyone that holds Zimmerman as a hero. There was nothing heroic about it. It was tragic. Being a responsible gun owner and neighborhood watch, Zimmerman should have been carrying some pepper spray. Appropriate force for appropriate situations, but hindsight is 20/20.

I cant believe dope and school suspensions are being trotted out to defame a dead teenager. gross
 
I'm sorry but how did we elect him again? and I'm out.

If you have joke opponents to run against him of course he will win.

You have him run against an ancient mummy and a out of touch rich mormon of course he will win.

Put any moderate sensible opponent and the republicans would have made him a 1 term president.

That being said I am glad he got elected over those 2 other fools.
 
If you have joke opponents to run against him of course he will win.

You have him run against an ancient mummy and a out of touch rich mormon of course he will win.

Put any moderate sensible opponent and the republicans would have made him a 1 term president.

I'm sorry but there wasn't a candidate in the world that would have won Obama in 2008. In 2012 Obama won thanks to the Tea Party pulling the moderate Republican's to the far far right or eliminating them in the primaries.
 
If you have joke opponents to run against him of course he will win.

You have him run against an ancient mummy and a out of touch rich mormon of course he will win.

Put any moderate sensible opponent and the republicans would have made him a 1 term president.

That being said I am glad he got elected over those 2 other fools.

That's like hunting for unicorns.
 
The racism and obvious racist dog-whistling that has been allowed in the public discourse since '08 is sickening. What's annoying is Obama has enough fuck ups to attack him on but it always stoops to z0mg our president is an nword.. The last 5yrs have been utterly embarrassing for America.
 
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