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[Gaiff]

Absolutely no difference. Same crashes that are likely memory-leak-related (on a console no less), same stutters, and same low performance. They basically do nothing and claim something was changed. The likelihood of this ever being fixed is close to 0.

 

[Draugoth]

Unreal Engine 5 is a mess

 

[Gaiff]

Unreal Engine 5 is a mess

The complete recipe for disaster. A game that initially ran poorly + weird data management (dumping cells and loading them) + UE5 + Open World.

 

[kevboard]

it will never be fixed.

UE5 is trash, and then you have the original engine under the hood that also runs in parallel... yeah... that's never gonna be a good running game unless you brute force it with PC hardware a few years down the line, and lock it to 60fps

 

[Rush2112]

Reason why you wasted your money if you bought a 5 series this year.

 

[FoxMcChief]

Unreal Engine 5 is a mess

I didn't have any issues with Expedition 33 or Avowed. I think this is probably more due to the UE5 duplicating a different engine.

 

[Fbh]

As if they give a shit.
Second best selling game of the year

 

[Giallo Corsa]

Thank fook I didn't fall for the hype this time - shadow dropping is a really hit and miss thing and after getting burned with NG2 Black...yeah.

 

[PonyStation4]

Unreal Engine 5 is a mess

The problem isn't UE5, it's a very good engine. The problem is using its features as shortcuts, leading to games being an unoptimized mess. For example, slamming down fully textured trees around a forest, when 5 years ago devs modified trees for distance/angle from the viewer.

 

[TheAtomicPile]

I didn't have any issues with Expedition 33 or Avowed. I think this is probably more due to the UE5 duplicating a different engine.

RoboCop Rogue City ran pretty well, too. It's definitely possible to get something good out of the engine.

 

[Fake]

People should give up. Both UE5 and Bethesda are out of salvation.

 

[Hashassin]

 

[MagiusNecros]

Unreal Engine 5 is a mess

Is it the engine or is it the people using it?

 

[Generic]

Absolutely no difference. Same crashes that are likely memory-leak-related (on a console no less), same stutters, and same low performance. They basically do nothing and claim something was changed. The likelihood of this ever being fixed is close to 0.

It's faithful to the original game.

 

[Arsic]

Is it the engine or is it the people using it?

At this point it's clear it's the engine.

 

[Guardian Monkey]

RoboCop Rogue City ran pretty well, too. It's definitely possible to get something good out of the engine.

Look at what it's rendering though, part of a city or in a building versus a whole countryside. The intro to the remake was great for the first 20 minutes until we got outside.

 

[MagiusNecros]

At this point it's clear it's the engine.

From what I've seen of Skyblivion footage recently I feel like putting Oblivion in the Skyrim engine would have been the smarter move for Besthesda to take but hmm we will see how it compares.

 

[MiguelItUp]

I honestly didn't realize people were having such huge issues with the game. I definitely came across some stuff during my playthrough. But nothing experience breaking, and this was on PC.

 

[bender]

Sounds like a patch truly worthy of Oblivion's quality.

 

[TheAtomicPile]

Look at what it's rendering though, part of a city or in a building versus a whole countryside. The intro to the remake was great for the first 20 minutes until we got outside.

Yeah, it ran just ok on my 4090 after the intro, which was a bummer. Partly due to performance, but mostly due to the game putting me to sleep, I uninstalled it shortly after the intro.

Maybe UE5 doesn't scale well to large environments? Then again, Avowed runs very well even with its own large levels.

In any event, I'm not ready to throw it in the bin with the all-time bottom-tier engines like id tech 5.

 

[Pimpbaa]

Man, I hope that MGS3 remake turns out ok (Virtuos doing both I think).

 

[Insanemaelstrom]

Memory leak is due to bad coding in C(and it's derivatives), not due to UE5.

The fun y thing is that there are many programs dedicated to detecting memory leaks and it is generally pretty easy to fix memory leaks once detected( you just literally need to free the memory).

 

[NeverYouMind]

Still runs better than the original when it released.

 

[UltimaKilo]

I honestly didn't realize people were having such huge issues with the game. I definitely came across some stuff during my playthrough. But nothing experience breaking.

There's hiccups that came with an inexperienced developer given such a massive open game on UE5 but it runs "fine" on my Series S and Series X sans the occasional memory leak crap.

 

[ZehDon]

Didn't you already post about this already, Gaiff ?

In any case, yeah - it's an Unreal Engine 5 game. It's gonna run like crap. I can't recall a single UE5 title that performs as expected given what's on the screen. Add on Oblivion's already famously weird non-sense, and just like the original, we're gonna need computers from the future to ever run it properly. It's fine on my (relatively) high-end PC, but you shouldn't need 64GB RAM to work around memory issues for a remake of a 20 year old game. And VRR is doing overtime in giving me a smooth experience with this one. I love the remaster dearly, but yeah - I doubt it's ever getting properly fixed.

 

[Minari]

Still runs better than the original when it released.

Lol i made it a habit never to play bethesda rps at launch decades ago

 

[nkarafo]

that's never gonna be a good running game unless you brute force it with PC hardware a few years down the line, and lock it to 60fps

Brute forcing it with hardware doesn't fix all issues. Look at something like GTA4, which is as bad but 15+ years earlier and it still runs like shit.

The only thing that could fix this is what fixed GTA4. Performance fix mods that go very deep using different APIs.

 

[Gaiff]

Didn't you already post about this already, Gaiff ?

In any case, yeah - it's an Unreal Engine 5 game. It's gonna run like crap. I can't recall a single UE5 title that performs as expected given what's on the screen. Add on Oblivion's already famously weird non-sense, and just like the original, we're gonna need computers from the future to ever run it properly. It's fine on my (relatively) high-end PC, but you shouldn't need 64GB RAM to work around memory issues for a remake of a 20 year old game. And VRR is doing overtime in giving me a smooth experience with this one. I love the remaster dearly, but yeah - I doubt it's ever getting properly fixed.

That was the beta PC patch. This is the console patch.

 

[adamsapple]

Still such an amazing game, warts and all.

I think running two engines on top of each other doesn't help, cause we have seen good performing UE5 games now and then.

 

[ZehDon]

That was the beta PC patch. This is the console patch.

Ah, my mistake!

 

[Loomy]

Unreal Engine 5 is a mess

At this point it's clear it's the engine.

I can't recall a single UE5 title that performs as expected given what's on the screen

Split Fiction, Clair Obscur, The Finals, Fortnite, Tekken 8, Robocop, Satisfactory, Avowed.

I'd like to know how they tested this patch and at what scale.

I said this in the Wuchang thread, but we need to start calling out devs instead of UE5 here. We've had enough UE5 games coming out with no issues that we know it's possible. It's not some unattainable goal.

Yes, UE5 is not perfect. But developers putting out shitty products is on them. There was 0 reason to shadow drop this game when they did.

 

[Guardian Monkey]

Yeah, it ran just ok on my 4090 after the intro, which was a bummer. Partly due to performance, but mostly due to the game putting me to sleep, I uninstalled it shortly after the intro.

Maybe UE5 doesn't scale well to large environments? Then again, Avowed runs very well even with its own large levels.

In any event, I'm not ready to throw it in the bin with the all-time bottom-tier engines like id tech 5.

ah good point, I forgot about avowed.

 

[darrylgorn]

Runs great with Lossless Scaling.

 

[ZehDon]

... Split Fiction, Clair Obscur, The Finals, Fortnite, Tekken 8, Robocop, Satisfactory, Avowed...

I'll give you Split Fiction actually, that runs perfectly fine. Satisfactory used UE4 and was ported to UE5, and suffered some notable performance degradation as result of said port. They're still patching it.

The rest are not well optimised for what they're ultimately presenting. Fortnite's shift to UE5 demonstrates foundational weaknesses with the engine, as it suffers from stutters and notable performance issues as you turn up the bells and whistles. They're actively improving it, but it should a whole heck of a lot better.

 

[Loomy]

I'll give you Split Fiction actually, that runs perfectly fine. Satisfactory used UE4 and was ported to UE5, and suffered some notable performance degradation as result of said port. They're still patching it.

The rest are not well optimised for what they're ultimately presenting. Fortnite's shift to UE5 demonstrates foundational weaknesses with the engine, as it suffers from stutters and notable performance issues as you turn up the bells and whistles. They're actively improving it, but it should a whole heck of a lot better.

You're right. None of them are perfect, but they're also not held together by scotch tape like some other UE5 games are.

 

[Signalis]

Is it the engine or is it the people using it?

Incompetence from both sides

 

[diffusionx]

Unreal Engine 5 is a mess

this is unreal engine 5 running on gamebryo. it never had a chance

 

[DenchDeckard]

Fucking unreal engine 5.

Why aren't epic working diligently to fix this shit?

 

[ZehDon]

You're right. None of them are perfect, but they're also not held together by scotch tape like some other UE5 games are.

I'd argue that Clair Obscur, especially on consoles, really isn't great. It's a linear RPG with relatively small environments with little to no environmental interactivity; the XSX and PS5 should be delivering top tier IQ and performance, but because of how heavy UE5 is, it's fizzle city with questionable frame rates and times. Yes, it's a small dev team, but a game that limited shouldn't be stressing the engine out of the box.

 

[Magic Carpet]

Fucking unreal engine 5.

Why aren't epic working diligently to fix this shit?

Something about Unreal being free until a certain number of sales. And then BAM they get paid whether the Engine is at fault or not.
No incentive to improve. Just sit back and wait for a hit game and get paid.
It's the new Console razor blade model. All the developers are shaving with Unreal blades.

 

[diffusionx]

I'd argue that Clair Obscur, especially on consoles, really isn't great. It's a linear RPG with relatively small environments with little to no environmental interactivity; the XSX and PS5 should be delivering top tier IQ and performance, but because of how heavy UE5 is, it's fizzle city with questionable frame rates and times. Yes, it's a small dev team, but a game that limited shouldn't be stressing the engine out of the box.

annoying thing is that UE4 ran and looked great on PS4 (Days Gone for example). Heck it still looks great. Why couldn't we just stay with that for another generation?

 

[Fess]

I can't recall a single UE5 title that performs as expected given what's on the screen.

Avowed, I had no issues there. But the world is static and lacking interactivity so might be easier then.

Should be interesting to see how The Outer Worlds 2 performs. Likely similar in scope and interactivity.

Wuchang seems fairly stable on my living room PC capped by an old LCD TV that can't go above 60fps.
Might be unstable above 60 though… I'll take a look at Oblivion on the same TV.


In the end I'm just hugely disappointed by how such a problematic engine has managed to get developers left and right jumping aboard.

We saw the performance issues already in the Matrix experience. Sub-30 fps on console.

The Coalition talked about the issues to get stable 60 in their GDC deep dive test flight.

And yet.
- All aboard! Come on! Woooo!

???

At this point I wonder if the reason why Gears went poof and also State of Decay 3 is because both devs jumped to UE5.

There is talk about CDPR tweaking things for Witcher 4 at least. But talk isn't what's needed now… We need to see results.

 

[Cyberpunkd]

That's what you get for whoring for graphics instead of getting the OG for pennies that can run perfectly well on a toaster at 120FPS.

 

[PlayStaytion]

The problem isn't UE5, it's a very good engine. The problem is using its features as shortcuts, leading to games being an unoptimized mess. For example, slamming down fully textured trees around a forest, when 5 years ago devs modified trees for distance/angle from the viewer.

The entire industry sounds like running by a bunch of genzers, that doesn't look good and future proofing.

 

[PlayStaytion]

Absolutely no difference. Same crashes that are likely memory-leak-related (on a console no less), same stutters, and same low performance. They basically do nothing and claim something was changed. The likelihood of this ever being fixed is close to 0.

Buying a weak hardware seems a wiser choice in this case.

 

[Thief1987]

I'd argue that Clair Obscur, especially on consoles, really isn't great. It's a linear RPG with relatively small environments with little to no environmental interactivity; the XSX and PS5 should be delivering top tier IQ and performance, but because of how heavy UE5 is, it's fizzle city with questionable frame rates and times. Yes, it's a small dev team, but a game that limited shouldn't be stressing the engine out of the box.

Yeah, people are really out of touch saying that obscur running at 720p is an example of a good performant game, when it's basically a corridor game with zero environment interactivity, and with nothing going on on the map.

 

[Soodanim]

Brute forcing it with hardware doesn't fix all issues. Look at something like GTA4, which is as bad but 15+ years earlier and it still runs like shit.

The only thing that could fix this is what fixed GTA4. Performance fix mods that go very deep using different APIs.

I agree with the point that sometimes broken is broken, but isn't GTA4 a game that needs low core count and high clock speed rather than utilising extra cores? I was under the impression that the main benefit of Vulkan there is making it use modern hardware more fully. I may be way off, though.

My point being that OblivionR may be be something you can brute force eventually, just because there probably isn't going to be a dramatic shift like that any time soon.

Either way, I'm far more interested in Skyblivion than this poorly performing release. The modder effort has the benefit of being a passion project and having access to all existing methods of enhancing performance because it won't be a paid product.

 

[ZehDon]

... In the end I'm just hugely disappointed by how such a problematic engine has managed to get developers left and right jumping aboard...

Unreal Engine 5 comes with a host of features to help developers cut development time, which in turn cuts development costs. That's why everyone's shifting to use it - and that also means you can farm out work to UE contractors, because the engine has reached a point where you can specialize in it, keeping costs down further. For example, it's virtualised geometry means you don't have to create LODs for large parts of the world, it's real-time lighting engine means you don't need bake lights, and it has several time-saving features like auto-LOD for models and kit-bashing.
Matching UE's feature set in an in-house engine means you now need to employ a full team of engine programmers working full time. If you're a publisher like EA, maintaining the Frostbite engine for all of your stuidos, that cost works out. If you're just a developer, it's harder and harder to justify that cost. There's only a few developers left who can keep up.

The real problem is these time-saving features are basically a generation too early, and optimising them for a specific game still requires immense technical know-how. And if the developers had that level of knowledge on staff, they wouldn't be leveraging a third party engine whose biggest selling point is huge time and cost savings on the basis of NOT hiring staff with that level of technical expertise. I suspect the next version of UE6 will focus on performance, mostly because UE5 has ruined an entire generation of games at this point. No one's going back to upgrade them to latter versions of the engine once it's foundational issues are fixed - they be stuck with stutter, performance, and pacing issues forever.

 

[mèx]

Incompetence from both sides

A few days ago I had a look at this Unreal Fest presentation about stutters/hitches:


While the engine is for sure to blame for how it presents stuff to the end users (i.e. terrible defaults, misleading entities and so on), the developers seem to get wrong even the most basic stuff. We are cooked.

 

[Fess]

Unreal Engine 5 comes with a host of features to help developers cut development time, which in turn cuts development costs. That's why everyone's shifting to use it - and that also means you can farm out work to UE contractors, because the engine has reached a point where you can specialize in it, keeping costs down further. For example, it's virtualised geometry means you don't have to create LODs for large parts of the world, it's real-time lighting engine means you don't need bake lights, and it has several time-saving features like auto-LOD for models and kit-bashing.
Matching UE's feature set in an in-house engine means you now need to employ a full team of engine programmers working full time. If you're a publisher like EA, maintaining the Frostbite engine for all of your stuidos, that cost works out. If you're just a developer, it's harder and harder to justify that cost. There's only a few developers left who can keep up.

The real problem is these time-saving features are basically a generation too early, and optimising them for a specific game still requires immense technical know-how. And if the developers had that level of knowledge on staff, they wouldn't be leveraging a third party engine whose biggest selling point is huge time and cost savings on the basis of NOT hiring staff with that level of technical expertise. I suspect the next version of UE6 will focus on performance, mostly because UE5 has ruined an entire generation of games at this point. No one's going back to upgrade them to latter versions of the engine once it's foundational issues are fixed - they be stuck with stutter, performance, and pacing issues forever.

Sorry but I just hear "Blahblahblah I don't have time to do all that by myself!".
It's easier but it all comes with consequences. I'm using Unity for the same reason, I know basic programming but I'm no coder, so I use the engine to get stuff for free, can focus on art and behaviors.
But a real game dev studio have real programmers, they know this stuff. And I assume they feel like they have their hands tied behind their backs now since they can't do lowend engine optimizations anymore.
Like imagine being the guy getting the task to increase performance in a patch like this if there is a core engine problem how data is moved in and out of RAM/VRAM. Stressful!