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Occupy Wall St - Occupy Everywhere, Occupy Together!

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R

remnant

Banned
Puddles has a nice rant, but do people really understand the causes for most of these issues. It's going to be a bit more complicated than blaming Ayn Rand. People put way to much blame on Wall St. (whatever that means at this point)
 
D

Drkirby

Corporate Apologist
- Our real unemployment rate remains over 15%. Our corporations have returned to their pre-2008 profit levels, but with far fewer employees on payroll. They have achieved this through a combination of outsourcing, which is no longer confined to blue-collar manufacturing, but which is affecting white-collar departments like IT and accounting, as well as productivity increases, which to a large degree depend on employees working longer hours for the same pay. How many of you know people who work 10-12 hour days, who take their work home with them, and who aren’t paid for their overtime hours? How many of you know people who are doing the work that 2-3 people used to do? How many of you know people who work at companies that really should hire more people, but won’t because they know their overworked employees are just happy to have a job right now?
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This may sound rude, but corporations are not obligated to employee a certain number people, and never should have to. We are going to have to start facing the problem that we have more people then we need labor.

Now, for the unsatisfactory working conditions, it won't get better till people start manning up and changing where they work, or even starting up their own companies. They could also attempt a strike, but I am not to certain of how effective that would be (Mainly from the employee participation aspect)
 
P

Puddles

Banned
Drkirby said:
This may sound rude, but corporations are not obligated to employee a certain number people, and never should have to. We are going to have to start facing the problem that we have more people then we need labor.

Now, for the unsatisfactory working conditions, it won't get better till people start manning up and changing where they work, or even starting up their own companies. They could also attempt a strike, but I am not to certain of how effective that would be (Mainly from the employee participation aspect)
Click to expand...

Okay, there's a broad response I'd like to make to this post, but before I do that, let me ask you: what do you think we should do about this problem (having more people than we need labor)?
 
V

Vincent Alexander

Member
Puddles said:
Okay, there's a broad response I'd like to make to this post, but before I do that, let me ask you: what do you think we should do about this problem (having more people than we need labor)?
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Destroy the machines
 
D

Drkirby

Corporate Apologist
Puddles said:
Okay, there's a broad response I'd like to make to this post, but before I do that, let me ask you: what do you think we should do about this problem (having more people than we need labor)?
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To be perfectly honest, I have no clue, and I can imagine there are scholars and researcher who are trying to answer those questions. It is what people would call an Open Problem.

Our Economic system is just not designed for it. Likely the easiest solution would be to simply divide people into those who provide services to support our lively hood, and have everyone else working in some sort of giant R&D scheme, but then you have the problem that the "arts" are very difficult to fairly represent in such a system, and you also have a problem that you may end up with less people willing to do basic labor, when the alternative is a vaguely defined "Do Research on stuff you are interested in."
 
V

Vincent Alexander

Member
I'm not too informed on econmics, job creation and the such, but I am interested. Is there any solid footing to the idea that the creation of big unions in the 70s/80s killed jobs over here because that's when companies really started looking for places overseas to take their jobs? It's something I've heard tossed around a few times, and I'm curious what thoughts/opinions/boiks (if any) there are on it.
 
P

Puddles

Banned
Fair enough.

Regardless of whether corporations are obligated to employ a certain number of people, which is a different debate, there's the fact that they could be employing more right now if they conformed to the rules we've set for them.

Lots of unpaid interns should be paid workers. Lots of departments of ten people working 60 hour weeks should be departments of 15 people working 40 hour weeks. We don't even have to get into socialist solutions to make a dent in the problem. This wouldn't solve the entire problem, but it would be a start.
 
P

Polari

Member
Puddles said:
Okay, there's a broad response I'd like to make to this post, but before I do that, let me ask you: what do you think we should do about this problem (having more people than we need labor)?
Click to expand...

Stop exploiting the citizens of third world countries. How many hours of labor do you think have gone into all your possessions? Mostly likely considerably than you'll ever personally contribute back to society.

How many of these protesters are wearing clothes made in sweatshops? It's an issue of consumption. Americans expect as a right to consume more than they personally produce. Rather than buying ten shirts made in China, buy two made in the United States or somewhere else where they pay their workers an acceptable wage.
 
S

Slavik81

Member
Vincent Alexander said:
I'm not too informed on econmics, job creation and the such, but I am interested. Is there any solid footing to the idea that the creation of big unions in the 70s/80s killed jobs over here because that's when companies really started looking for places overseas to take their jobs? It's something I've heard tossed around a few times, and I'm curious what thoughts/opinions/boiks (if any) there are on it.
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I doubt it. I think it was inevitable. If a job can be done anywhere and two people are equally qualified to do it, the job's going to go to the lowest bidder.
 
B

Bad_Boy

time to take my meds
Puddles said:
How many of you know people who are doing the work that 2-3 people used to do? How many of you know people who work at companies that really should hire more people, but won’t because they know their overworked employees are just happy to have a job right now?
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This really hits home for me. I basically go to work everyday doing the work of 2 men. Sometimes 3. It wasnt like this when I first started my job. Everyone did their part, and wasnt too bad. Then the workload went up, but the number of employees stayed the same. Someone calls in sick, the work is divided between the workers.

Another thing is, at my job, the rate new hires quit is at 28%. Which is really high, especially in this economy. Once they see how much work they have to do, in the conditions they have to do it in, and how little they get paid, they walk out. The people that stay realize how hard it is to find a job. Corporate side sees this too, so they pretty much have their way since they know those people won't quit.

Once I got pulled into the office of the top manager, he told me i would have another job and would never have to do as much work again. i was so happy. 2 months later not only am i doing my new job, but back to my old job at the same time. i can't quit, bills to pay. and the companies i applied to aren't hiring.

Currently in the process to join the military. But even they are having cutbacks so it's taking me forever and a day to join.
 
P

Polari

Member
What disheartens me about all this is the fact it doesn't seem that the people realise they hold the power. YOU put these corporations in the position where they exact such a large degree of control over your lives and only YOU have the power to challenge them.

Standing out there on the street doesn't do shit. Stop buying their products, using their services where ever possible. If enough people participate, you'll see power spread more evenly through society once again. Stop buying sweatshop clothes, start making your own or supporting businesses that make clothing ethically - it might cost more, but don't buy a new smartphone every year and buy one less video game every month and you'll be able to afford it. Stop buying processed food and instead buy from farmer's markets. Is it as convenient? Hell no, but these are sacrifices you're going to have to make if you actually want to make a difference. Overall, stop consuming excessively. Get out of debt. Freedom isn't free, you have to make sacrifices to attain it. This should be the message these protests are promoting. All I see is a rabble of self-entitled fools who 90% of world is looking at and asking "What are they complaining about?" You aren't the fucking 99%, the women who have to walk three hours every day just to provide clean water for their families are the 99%.
 
X

_Xenon_

Banned
Puddles said:
Okay, there's a broad response I'd like to make to this post, but before I do that, let me ask you: what do you think we should do about this problem (having more people than we need labor)?
Click to expand...
The quality of your labor force doesn't match the value of dollar anymore. This is the core issue, caused by years of ignoring the importance of education, and the rising of the other countries.

To solve this, either
1. water down the dollar (short term plan, print more money, out-cheap the Yuan, not likely to happen),

2. or bring up the quality of your labor force (long term plan, not going to happen until serious political reform),

3. or go for the middle ground: print money, cut spend, tax the rich, create more public section jobs to bring up domestic demands.

The third method has been brought up by quite a lot of people and is part of your America Job Act but it seems your government is too busy with political struggle at the moment. And that's why your people should mobilize the only weapon you have (political freedom) to remind your government what the most important thing it is at moment.
 
X

XMonkey

lacks enthusiasm.
sleeping_dragon said:
You dont get my point do you?
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I do, but I don't think it's a particularly good one either way. Yes, all successful revolutions have depended on the participation of many, many people, but they can be sparked by a single action or person.
 
DiscoJer

DiscoJer

Member
_Xenon_ said:
The quality of your labor force doesn't match the value of dollar anymore. This is the core issue, caused by years of ignoring the importance of education, and the rising of the other countries.

To solve this, either
1. water down the dollar (short term plan, print more money, out-cheap the Yuan, not likely to happen),

2. or bring up the quality of your labor force (long term plan, not going to happen until serious political reform),

3. or go for the middle ground: print money, cut spend, tax the rich, create more public section jobs to bring up domestic demands.

The third method has been brought up by quite a lot of people and is part of your America Job Act but it seems your government is too busy with political struggle at the moment. And that's why your people should mobilize the only weapon you have (political freedom) to remind your government what the most important thing it is at moment.
Click to expand...


That's actually what the government has been doing - devaluing the dollar by printing money left and right (qualitative easing) and drastically expanding the government (and public sector jobs). The net result is that poor have gotten poorer by 10-20%, as that's how much less their money buys (their salaries have not gone up). And the only place with a growing economy is Washington DC.

The real problem is that there is too much labor supply. You've never going to have a country full of college professors and computer programmers and whatnot - half the population is always going to be dumber than average (and most people are going to be average).

The problem is the US has been trained to think that any job that isn't white collar or requires a college degree is a job "Americans won't do".
 
X

XMonkey

lacks enthusiasm.
DiscoJer said:
That's actually what the government has been doing - devaluing the dollar by printing money left and right (qualitative easing) and drastically expanding the government (and public sector jobs). The net result is that poor have gotten poorer by 10-20%, as that's how much less their money buys (their salaries have not gone up). And the only place with a growing economy is Washington DC.
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I'm sorry but you seem to be under the impression that government and public sector jobs have not been undergoing the same kind of cuts that have happened in the private sector. Government is not "drastically expanding".
 
X

_Xenon_

Banned
Polari said:
What disheartens me about all this is the fact it doesn't seem that the people realise they hold the power. YOU put these corporations in the position where they exact such a large degree of control over your lives and only YOU have the power to challenge them.

Standing out there on the street doesn't do shit. Stop buying their products, using their services where ever possible. If enough people participate, you'll see power spread more evenly through society once again. Stop buying sweatshop clothes, start making your own or supporting businesses that make clothing ethically - it might cost more, but don't buy a new smartphone every year and buy one less video game every month and you'll be able to afford it. Stop buying processed food and instead buy from farmer's markets. Is it as convenient? Hell no, but these are sacrifices you're going to have to make if you actually want to make a difference. Overall, stop consuming excessively. Get out of debt. Freedom isn't free, you have to make sacrifices to attain it. This should be the message these protests are promoting. All I see is a rabble of self-entitled fools who 90% of world is looking at and asking "What are they complaining about?" You aren't the fucking 99%, the women who have to walk three hours every day just to provide clean water for their families are the 99%.
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For people who always bring up the "cheap t shirt from China" thing, you are doing it wrong. Shitty jobs like making t shirt always belong to shitty countries with shitty currency. These kinds of jobs have been slipping away from China to SE Asian countries for years and you will never see them come back to the states regardless how much appreciated Yuan is.

Besides, quite a lot of high value added manufacturing jobs such as making ipad/cars/tv, are not likely to go back ever.
1. ipad/iphone is HUGE in Asia, GM sell more cars in China than in the states. The market is here.
2. most of the parts of these things are also produced in Asia (chips, circuits and parts from Japan, Taiwan, Korea, nature resources from Russia, Australia, China, labor forces from China and SE Asia). The manufacture center is here.
3. more and more engineers either graduate here or return back from the US thanks to your more and more strict immigration policy. The research center is here.

See the point? These things simply cannot be solved by some tougher market policy or something, this is just like how China beats the US green tech industry discussed in another thread: you are out-competed.

At the moment to blame other countries for your domestic problem is just not going to work. Go tell your government to take care of your people, to create public sector jobs, is the point (of this thread and this protest IMO).
 
X

_Xenon_

Banned
DiscoJer said:
That's actually what the government has been doing - devaluing the dollar by printing money left and right (qualitative easing) and drastically expanding the government (and public sector jobs). The net result is that poor have gotten poorer by 10-20%, as that's how much less their money buys (their salaries have not gone up). And the only place with a growing economy is Washington DC.

The real problem is that there is too much labor supply. You've never going to have a country full of college professors and computer programmers and whatnot - half the population is always going to be dumber than average (and most people are going to be average).

The problem is the US has been trained to think that any job that isn't white collar or requires a college degree is a job "Americans won't do".
Click to expand...
The problem with collage student unemployment is that the US doesn't have enough domestic demand. Your public sector jobs simply can't meed the end. If the average educated people can't afford anything other than food stamps because they can't find a low level job, how do they buy high value added products such as games or cars? Then you have game sales car sales taking nose dives, then here comes the unemployment for educated people.

To create sufficient public sector jobs your country needs to build things, do big things, just like how you pulled yourself out of the shithole back in the 30s and 40s by the New Deal.

In addition to that, lack of birth control is also a problem, but I'm not going to discuss that here.
 
X

XMonkey

lacks enthusiasm.
P

Puddles

Banned
_Xenon_ said:
The quality of your labor force doesn't match the value of dollar anymore. This is the core issue, caused by years of ignoring the importance of education, and the rising of the other countries.

To solve this, either
1. water down the dollar (short term plan, print more money, out-cheap the Yuan, not likely to happen),

2. or bring up the quality of your labor force (long term plan, not going to happen until serious political reform),

3. or go for the middle ground: print money, cut spend, tax the rich, create more public section jobs to bring up domestic demands.

The third method has been brought up by quite a lot of people and is part of your America Job Act but it seems your government is too busy with political struggle at the moment. And that's why your people should mobilize the only weapon you have (political freedom) to remind your government what the most important thing it is at moment.
Click to expand...

This is pretty interesting. But it brings up the question: how are European countries, with an even stronger currency, able to maintain such higher levels of employment? Is it all because of their public sector?
 
X

_Xenon_

Banned
Puddles said:
This is pretty interesting. But it brings up the question: how are European countries, with an even stronger currency, able to maintain such higher levels of employment? Is it all because of their public sector?
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They don't have as many people as we (China and the US) do. For some of those countries their nature resources can well feed their people.

Their education level is higher than us (you don't see Europeans cry as much as the US does for outsourcing).

They don't have a massive military blackhole to suck their country dry (they benefit from your protection that's for sure).

BTW by public sector I don't mean it has to be a government job. A government invested project is also considered as public sector job by me.
 
M

magicstop

Member
Folks, cheers on a really excellent last couple of pages! Some great links, reads, and discussions. Thank you all for contributing.

Bloodbeard said:
Source: http://owst.tumblr.com/post/11007465721/an-open-letter-from-two-white-men-to-occupywallstreet
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I read this last night as I lay in bed. A fellow member of Occupy Durham sent it to me; we have started a POC/LGBTQ/Feminist focus group with the purpose of applying the lens of historically and currently disenfranchised people to this movement, and she thought this was a good read. Thanks for linking it, Bloodbeard.

I think it is EXTREMELY important for this to have been said and for this to be part of any real movement that truly seeks to address the full 99%. This will be going up on the OP.

kame-sennin said:
They're not trying to say the movement is racist. What they're trying to say is that the majority of the people who are in leadership positions are white males (which they acknowledge was not intentional). That means that the protest is more likely to project the views of white males and less likely to project the views of others. The other important point is that black and brown people have been dealing with the economic problems that spurred these protests for centuries. If we're to address the immorality of the current power structure, we must address the racial inequalities produced by this power structure as well. The letter is just a reminder to not forget about issues of race, not so much a critique.

[next, move on comment]

This type of comment is below the standards of this debate (standards you yourself have easily met until now) and is not fitting with the spirit of these protests. If this is to be an inclusive movement, we should at least be willing to hear each other out, and if we disagree - do so respectfully and with substance.
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Very well said! Join us at a movement!

Bloodbeard said:
http://www.racialicious.com/2011/10/03/so-real-it-hurts-notes-on-occupy-wall-street/
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This is going OP as well. A beautiful bit of writing there, and one that gives us all hope. It's incredibly important to have the narrative and of all people expressed, respected, and taken into consideration, and while it is still a fight to do so, even in a group like the Occupy movement that seeks equality much more fiercely than does our general society, I'm glad to see that it can be done, and that the General Assembly and Portland model can achieve what they envision: people led, people run organization that allows for, even requires the inclusion of all, the respect of all, and the input of all. Thanks again, Bloodbeard!

Puddles said:
I support this movement . . .
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Well said :D It's good to see someone fired up and willing to take the time to contribute to GAF. I'd strongly recommend that, if possible, you take that fire to an Occupy movement and bring them yourself as a strong resource! I'm not sure if I agree 100% with everything you said, as thus far I just woke up and only skimmed your post, but I suspect I mostly do, and that you could start your own Poli-GAF party :D Cheers!

Polari said:
Stop exploiting the citizens of third world countries. How many hours of labor do you think have gone into all your possessions? Mostly likely considerably than you'll ever personally contribute back to society.

How many of these protesters are wearing clothes made in sweatshops? It's an issue of consumption. Americans expect as a right to consume more than they personally produce. Rather than buying ten shirts made in China, buy two made in the United States or somewhere else where they pay their workers an acceptable wage.
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Well said, and true. I do not think that the "hypocrisy argument" is valid, however, in a system that actively seeks to exterminate alternatives. I do believe in informed buying, spending your money wisely, voting with your dollar, etc. I just also know that it can't bring revolutionary change to the market, as capitalism rewards the lowest bidder and the person/corporation that is willing to cut the most costs. You can only hit niche markets at that point.
Still a good point that you make, and I believe people SHOULD watch and control their consumption. Buy local, buy sustainable, buy fair, etc. But don't do it because you think it's going to fix or change the world: do it because it is the right thing to do.


ErasureAcer said:
Well I'm pretty much going to give this a shot in Minneapolis. Count me in. The OP should be updated with which NeoGAF members are participating and where. Not really looking forward to getting arrested...so I hope that doesn't happen.
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TrounceX said:
I'll be there.

I don't feel like getting arrested though either so I might wait a few days and take a look at the situation then.
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You guys are fucking champs! I will include a section in the OP listing those of US joining, and what specific movement we'll be part of. You've got the support of at least some of GAF behind ya!

Give me a little time, folks, and I'll have the OP updated with the excellent links, information, etc., that you provided. Some great contributions! Thank you!
 
B

Bru

Member
Puddles said:
I support this movement. In spite of their somewhat conflicting and not-quite-coherent manifesto, I think that there is a central message that needs to be conveyed. For the last several decades, and to a greatest extent over the last three years, the American way of life has been in decline.

- Our real unemployment rate remains over 15%. Our corporations have returned to their pre-2008 profit levels, but with far fewer employees on payroll. They have achieved this through a combination of outsourcing, which is no longer confined to blue-collar manufacturing, but which is affecting white-collar departments like IT and accounting, as well as productivity increases, which to a large degree depend on employees working longer hours for the same pay. How many of you know people who work 10-12 hour days, who take their work home with them, and who aren’t paid for their overtime hours? How many of you know people who are doing the work that 2-3 people used to do? How many of you know people who work at companies that really should hire more people, but won’t because they know their overworked employees are just happy to have a job right now?

- More and more college graduates are taking unpaid internships that violate the Fair Labor Standards Act and don’t lead to full-time positions at their conclusion.

- Healthcare remains out of reach for 16% of the population. Premiums are soaring, deductibles are increasing, and the provisions of the Patient Protection and Affordable Care Act that might mitigate some of the damage are years away from being implemented, if the whole act isn’t repealed first.

- Education has become so expensive that a college degree might not even be a net gain for many young people. The entry-level jobs that used to be available for college graduates of any major are disappearing or being converted into unpaid internships. Only science and engineering graduates have any real certainty that they’ll be able to find decent jobs after college.

- Millions of homes are being foreclosed on. Some of these homeowners were irresponsible, to be sure. But many more were making their payments before their interest rates increased. Many were doing fine until a member of the household lost a job. Our government was willing to spend billions bailing out failed financial institutions, but investors are throwing a fit at the idea of allowing judges to lower a family’s mortgage payments to a sustainable level, and our politicians are listening to them.

Americans have been told that this is the new normal. That globalization means that we all have to sacrifice. And yet through all this, there is one group of people who haven’t sacrificed anything. In fact, their standard of living has risen over the past few years. These are the top 1%. But people are increasingly finding this arrangement unacceptable. If we all have to sacrifice, shouldn’t the people who already have the most make the biggest sacrifices? Shouldn’t a profitable company be willing to take a lower profit margin before it slashes payrolls? Shouldn’t a CEO decrease his own salary or bonus before he or she implements layoffs?

The social contract in America is broken. It used to be “work hard and you’ll be able to support a family.” Now it’s “take what we give you, and be happy about it.” Many politicians have convinced their constituents to support policies and economic ways of thinking that run directly against their own interests. They’ve indoctrinated them with a Randian philosophy that states that everything we have comes from our wealthy benefactors who create jobs, invent new products, and make our way of life possible. They dub the wealthiest Americans “producers” and the rest of us “moochers”, failing to acknowledge that every working American is a producer, and that there are millions more who would love nothing more than to be working and producing, but cannot because of the economic crisis caused largely by our financial industry. They fail to acknowledge that a social contract that excessively rewards the wealthy for investment and job creation only works if jobs are created and investments are made. If this isn't happening, then clearly it's time to re-evaulate the way we run our society.

Many of our politicians have turned the bottom 99% against each other. Look no further than the way they refer to our social programs as “entitlements”, conjuring up the image of a spoiled child demanding something he doesn’t deserve. Look at how they’ve attacked the very concepts of organized labor and collective bargaining, which were central to improving working conditions in the late 19th and early 20th centuries. They’ve dubbed our struggle for a greater share of the rewards of our societal production as “class warfare”.

They insist that a deficit of over $1 trillion can only be balanced by cuts to our social programs and to our infrastructure and education spending. They’ve proven themselves willing to risk our country’s default to prevent any tax increase on the only Americans who haven’t had to make sacrifices in this time of struggle. They seem oblivious to our declining social mobility, to our lowered standard of living for all but the wealthiest, to our banana republic levels of inequality, and to the diminishing opportunities that young Americans can look forward to. They effectively tell us that the only way we can get back to the American economic reality that our parents grew up with is to make the rich richer, to abandon our ideas about protecting the environment and our workers, and to allow mega-corporations free rein to engage in any anti-consumer, anti-employee practices they so choose.

The voices of the people are being drowned out. One of the most popular aspects of Obama's healthcare reform was the public option. It was bargained away to prevent healthcare corporations from running an ad campagin against the whole thing. One of Bush's accomplishments, Medicare Part D, contained a clause prohibiting the federal government from negotiating bulk discounts with pharmaceutical companies. The Senator who pushed that clause through was given a 7-figure job with the pharmaceutical industry a year later. A majority of Americans would rather increase the top tax rate than cut Medicare/Medicaid/Social Security benefits, but their voices aren't being heard.

This protest is about putting a stop to that. It’s about recognizing that our country is driven by the everyday people who work hard expecting nothing more than a decent standard of living for themselves and their children. It’s about recognizing that the top 1% would have nothing without the rest of society, and that if sacrifices are to be made, then they should be made by all, and not only by those with the least to give. Most of all, it’s about demanding that our politicians be accountable to all of the people, not just to their campaign donors, and that they put the interests of the working class above the interests of their political parties.
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Spot on.

The UK is in a similar position, cuts are hitting the middle and lower classes hard while the rich sit back and watch. Our government's slogan 'We're all in this together' makes the hypocrisy all the more painful to bear.
 
M

magicstop

Member
OK, the OP has been updated as much as is possible. I'm being forced to make further cuts in what I'm displaying, and unfortunately, I feel like I'm having to cut away at important material at this point. I will be going in and trimming up excess wording and language, and will be cutting a few other things in hopes of fitting a NeoGAF Occupy list, as well as having room for future updates, but I'm also putting in a request for an additional post underneath the first, in order to keep the OP relevant and informative.

EDIT:

Stumpokapow has come through big time! Though requiring the deletion of a few of the initial posts in this thread, we now have access to a follow up OP. I'll proceed to get things edited and posted up.
 
L

LakeEarth

Member
Polari said:
Standing out there on the street doesn't do shit. Stop buying their products, using their services where ever possible. If enough people participate, you'll see power spread more evenly through society once again. Stop buying sweatshop clothes, start making your own or supporting businesses that make clothing ethically.
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I actually have difficulty finding such things, as most department stores are filled with the cheap stuff. I was thinking someone should make a "made in america" store, where everything for sale is US-made. I think it might be a good idea.

EDIT - ahh it does exist. Love the URL.
Made in America Store
www.saveourcountryfirst.com/
 
Angry Fork

Angry Fork

Member
Was on the subway this morning and saw the front page of some manhattan newspaper. (One of those free ones or maybe just a different brand than daily news). Anyway the cover mentioned this protest and they showed an image of protestors with zombie make-up holding cash in their mouths and quoting the protestors as saying people who work 9-5's can make you zombies or something like that.

Then the paper said the line 'protestors complaining about being unemployed are now mocking the employed' see more on page whatever etc.. Thought it was really disingenuous and annoying that someone could be so ANTI-protestor for no reason. Working 9-5 blindly DOES make some people into zombies I don't see how that's false, but even if that was false who cares that's not the main focus of the protest, talk about cherry picking for the sake of bashing a meaningful event.

Also awesome post by puddles.
 
Angry Fork

Angry Fork

Member
Marleyman said:
http://www.observer.com/2011/10/exc...-fox-news-anchor-in-un-aired-interview-video/

Love this. Disgusting though that the interviewer, Griff Jenkins, says that they will air this and never did. Also find it disgusting that FoxNews promoted those damn tea party events as if they sponsored them, yet this protest, that is growing all over the country, gets left on the cutting room floor.
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Some of the comments in the section/youtube are annoying. People are noting that the guy talking is saying surface statements without much evidence, but it's like he's trying to say as much as he can within the 1-2 minutes he's given. The subjects he mentioned would have to be given like 10 minutes each at least in order to talk about them in depth.

I'm glad this guy was articulate enough to say what everyone is thinking as quick as possible in a confident manner without stuttering which I'm sure many wouldn't be able to do in the face of a reporter. Cool video hopefully it gets millions of hits but youtube says it's unlisted. It's at 300k now so maybe it'll keep going.
 
M

magicstop

Member
T

ToxicAdam

Member
I think this is relevant to this thread.

We show how the prevailing majority opinion in a population can be rapidly reversed by a small fraction p of randomly distributed committed agents who consistently proselytize the opposing opinion and are immune to influence. Specifically, we show that when the committed fraction grows beyond a critical value pc=10%, there is a dramatic decrease in the time Tc taken for the entire population to adopt the committed opinion.
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M

magicstop

Member
I've added a small italicized string of text at the top of the OP to indicate when it's been updated so you won't have to puzzle through the post or the thread to know. I'm considering how to emphasis new entries to the post without upsetting the established typesetting used for emphasis, clarity, etc.

Also, if you know of a movement that has already started it's occupation phase, or is going to within the next 7 days, please send me a PM or post it, so it can be added to the "Protest Locations" section. I am avoiding the addition of locations that are in the planning stages, etc., and would like to use that section for locations that are occupied or will soon be.

ToxicAdam said:
I think this relevant to this thread.
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Wow. Seems like it may be true, I'm not sure. But I guess the trick is defining "population". I guess GAF is its own population, and then pre-existing political establishments are their own population, etc.
 
D

dave is ok

aztek is ok
I know the Occupy Wall Street people are probably pretty hesitant to get into politics seeing what happened with the Tea Party, but they really need to get Elizabeth Warren elected to Senate. She's not some long shot underdog, and may get elected without their support - but it'd be a nice irony if Scott Brown got unelected the same way he got elected, by an upstart group of angry citizens.
 
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