Support NeoGAF

[Dude Abides]

Not whining, just saying your wrong.

No your wrong!

Don't run away from your hatred of all things un-American, Manos, own it!

 

[ronito]

Was Michael Moore still advocating we replace capitalism with "democracy"?

I don't always advocate change. But when I do I advocate replacing economic systems with forms of government.

 

[Deku]

No your wrong!

Don't run away from your hatred of all things un-American, Manos, own it!

GET A ROOM YOU TWO!

 

[DarkKyo]

The protest is looking great! Moore showing up could really bring a lot of needed attention to the crowds there. Really glad he visited the protest.

 

[eznark]

The protest is looking great! Moore showing up could really bring a lot of needed attention to the crowds there. Really glad he visited the protest.

They just need Jane Fonda to show up to really get the legitimacy ball rolling.

 

[Barrett2]

They just need Jane Fonda to show up to really get the legitimacy ball rolling.

She could sit on the Wall St. bronze bull, recreate that magic from Vietnam.

 

[ronito]

She could sit on the Wall St. bronze bull, recreate that magic from Vietnam.

Well code pink is there. There is hope!

 

[Manos: The Hans of Fate]

She could sit on the Wall St. bronze bull, recreate that magic from Vietnam.

No, it would need to have an AA gun installed on it first.

 

[empty vessel]

Lemme take a picture of your Corporate oppression with my D5000 DSLR. I bought a special lens for this protest against the capitalist pigs!

This notion that one who owns any good produced by labor cannot oppose capitalism or even criticize it is utterly absurd. Just strictly as a logical matter, it's downright moronic.

 

[Manos: The Hans of Fate]

This notion that one who owns any good produced by labor cannot oppose capitalism or even criticize it is utterly absurd. Just strictly as a logical matter, it's downright moronic.

Rationalization especially with the constant claim that Capitalism isn't responsible for the products being developed and made.

 

[ToxicAdam]

This notion that one who owns any good produced by labor cannot oppose capitalism or even criticize it is utterly absurd. Just strictly as a logical matter, it's downright moronic.

You mean like when someone criticizes socialistic government policies while they drive on public roads or accept social security?

Oh wait, criticizing THOSE people is okay ..

 

[Dartastic]

http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2011/sep/26/americas-barely-tamed-brutality?fb=optOut

 

[Deku]

You mean like when someone criticizes socialistic government policies while they drive on public roads or accept social security?

Oh wait, criticizing THOSE people is okay ..

To be fair, the classic case of a public good is a road and no one should have a problem with that.

 

[dave is ok]

They aren't even protesting Capitalism so much as they are protesting Plutocracy. I guess there are less iPhone jokes to make about that.

 

[Javaman]

Student loans are not dischargeable in bankruptcy, but if they are really underwater on their mortgage, they could just walk away, then declare bankruptcy, which may or may not be a smart financial move, depending on how much dischargeable debt they have, how much their jobs would be impacted by the bankruptcy on their credit.

Some lenders make it extremely difficult to refinance even after Congress passed that law a few years back. Depending on who the current holder of the mortgage is, and whether they are willing to negotiate, and other factors, bankruptcy might not be a bad option.

They need to be careful either way. The tax break for loan forgiveness is going to expire soon so if the bank decides to forgive the difference between what it sells the house for and what is owed by the people at the wrong time they could be into uncle sam for hundreds of thousands of dollars that taxes are due on, treated as income.

 

[Manos: The Hans of Fate]

They aren't even protesting Capitalism so much as they are protesting Plutocracy. I guess there are less iPhone jokes to make about that.

Then why are all the signs about Capitalism and I think I've seen one about plutocracy.

 

[ToxicAdam]

To be fair, the classic case of a public good is a road and no one should have a problem with that.

I've seen people use the highway system as an example of why Tea Party-types are hypocrites.

 

[dave is ok]

Then why are all the signs about Capitalism and I think I've seen one about plutocracy.

Because very few people know the definition of the term 'plutocracy'

 

[AiTM]

To be fair, the classic case of a public good is a road and no one should have a problem with that.

Trillions of dollars in debt. Well, at least we have concrete pavement in a line.

This notion that one who owns any good produced by labor cannot oppose capitalism or even criticize it is utterly absurd. Just strictly as a logical matter, it's downright moronic.

No they are just hypocrites who love it when it benefits them

 

[Deku]

Trillions of dollars in debt. Well, at least we have concrete pavement in a line.

Roads can help generate economic activity. Obama's jobs plan and the stealth stimulus he is now trying to sell is based around this concept and he's got a good point.

Being opposed to public goods like roads will be like shooting yourself in the face to stop the bleeding on your foot.

 

[Dude Abides]

Roads can help generate economic activity. Obama's jobs plan and the stealth stimulus he is now trying to sell is based around this concept and he's got a good point.

Being opposed to public goods like roads will be like shooting yourself in the face to stop the bleeding on your foot.

But trillion is a big number!

 

[ronito]

Because very few people know the definition of the term 'plutocracy'

well they could look it up on their iphones if they don't know it!

 

[brucewaynegretzky]

It may not be 'admirable' to you, but it should still be taken seriously if someone puts their name on an outcry with several others that obviously feel strong enough about something to go protest. It's not as easy as you make it out to be.

and please, tell me a way to 'work toward change' outside of a protest that doesn't involve me sacrificing my job and time with my loved ones, etc. I'm honestly interested. I have no idea as a citizen of the USA how to do anything to work towards an economic revival outside of spending my money and spreading the word that we got fucking shafted by corporate america while our government does nothing to protect us from it. I don't know how many people do.

and that doesn't even include the people that have no clue about all this bullshit, which is another problem entirely

These two things are such utter bullshit. First of all, it DOES take time. People fucking dedicate their careers to work to change these areas. To think that you should be able to get the same level of respect or attention just by standing on a street corner is fucking absurd. Seriously fuck this line of thinking. "I should get what I want and it should come easily."

And people who have on clue what they're talking about shouldn't be listened to. On what planet did we land where what people "feel" should be the way things are is preferred to a well informed opinion?

Like I said, protests should be included in any movement, but they should be organized and attended by people who are putting in the work outside. A bunch of jackasses too lazy to work towards change the other 350 days a year aren't equals.

 

[empty vessel]

I've seen people use the highway system as an example of why Tea Party-types are hypocrites.

I think it is more that what they choose to attack as "socialism" is so absurd (i.e., not really socialism but basic governmental functions) that pointing to the highway system becomes an easy retort.

While I'm sure a lot of the protesters do genuinely oppose capitalism, I'm sure many also would be happy to just restore the citizen as the primary entity on whose behalf government is run (as opposed to the corporation).

In many ways, even people who are pro-capitalist ought to be out there with them, because what we currently have is an economic system that has more in common with big-c Communism than capitalism. Instead of a central government making planning decisions, that decision-making authority is distributed only slightly more in the current US model, placed in the hands of just a few corporations per industry who effectively have monopoly control. All told, there probably isn't a meaningful difference between the models in the number of people making important economic decisions that affect the entire society. That's why the US is currently the most corrupt industrialized country in the world and an unapologetic plutarchy.

 

[Dartastic]

http://www.thenation.com/blog/16362...s-coverage-occupy-wall-street?rel=emailNation

 

[eznark]

http://www.thenation.com/blog/16362...s-coverage-occupy-wall-street?rel=emailNation

translation: "They treated us like they treat tea party rallies, how dare they!?!"

 

[bounchfx]

These two things are such utter bullshit. First of all, it DOES take time. People fucking dedicate their careers to work to change these areas. To think that you should be able to get the same level of respect or attention just by standing on a street corner is fucking absurd. Seriously fuck this line of thinking. "I should get what I want and it should come easily."

And people who have on clue what they're talking about shouldn't be listened to. On what planet did we land where what people "feel" should be the way things are is preferred to a well informed opinion?

Like I said, protests should be included in any movement, but they should be organized and attended by people who are putting in the work outside. A bunch of jackasses too lazy to work towards change the other 350 days a year aren't equals.

Of course it takes time ! And I never said anything about the level of effort given should not matter. what I'm saying is it shouldn't be mandatory to dedicate your life to it to support change or have people believe that it matters to you. There's always going to be degrees dude. It has nothing to do with shit "coming easy" and more about every little bit counts. The entire movement shouldnt be discredited because you feel they should be approaching it completely different.

And I agree with you, People who have no clue what they're talking about have much less credibility, but theres a large amount of people who understand what they want. It would absolutely help if they pinpointed one specific thing but half the problem is that there's so much fucked up right now.

 

[brucewaynegretzky]

Of course it takes time ! And I never said anything about the level of effort given should not matter. what I'm saying is it shouldn't be mandatory to dedicate your life to it to support change or have people believe that it matters to you. There's always going to be degrees dude. It has nothing to do with shit "coming easy" and more about every little bit counts. The entire movement shouldnt be discredited because you feel they should be approaching it completely different.

And I agree with you, People who have no clue what they're talking about have much less credibility, but theres a large amount of people who understand what they want. It would absolutely help if they pinpointed one specific thing but half the problem is that there's so much fucked up right now.

If the level of effort matters at all this protest should be dismissed. Everything about it is so unprofessional and disjointed it hurts everyone who actually could work towards change. At a certain point what you're doing isn't acceptable just because you have good intentions.

 

[Cat Party]

Needs to be holding a MacBook.

 

[Deku]

. All told, there probably isn't a meaningful difference between the models in the number of people making important economic decisions that affect the entire society. That's why the US is currently the most corrupt industrialized country in the world and an unapologetic plutarchy.

Oversimplication is oversimplication.

The systems are vastly different and you must not know what a centrally planned economy is in 'big C communism' is if you can say that with a straight face.

 

[milkyjay20]

I think it is more that what they choose to attack as "socialism" is so absurd (i.e., not really socialism but basic governmental functions) that pointing to the highway system becomes an easy retort.

While I'm sure a lot of the protesters do genuinely oppose capitalism, I'm sure many also would be happy to just restore the citizen as the primary entity on whose behalf government is run (as opposed to the corporation).

In many ways, even people who are pro-capitalist ought to be out there with them, because what we currently have is an economic system that has more in common with big-c Communism than capitalism. Instead of a central government making planning decisions, that decision-making authority is distributed only slightly more in the current US model, placed in the hands of just a few corporations per industry who effectively have monopoly control. All told, there probably isn't a meaningful difference between the models in the number of people making important economic decisions that affect the entire society. That's why the US is currently the most corrupt industrialized country in the world and an unapologetic plutarchy.

i agree with this post and would like a subscription to your newsletter.

the state of the government is literally mussolini's definition of fascism. i'm sure all of today's real protest groups would agree that throwing the corporations out of government would solve so much, if only that idea became more prevalent.

 

[Dude Abides]

translation: "They treated us like they treat tea party rallies, how dare they!?!"

How does the NYT cover the tea party rallies?

 

[brucewaynegretzky]

How does the NYT cover the tea party rallies?

Actually NYT is strangely accepting of them, though I think they're often more absorbed with the political clout of the party rather than trying to figure out what the hell they're saying.

 

[PantherLotus]

They just need Jane Fonda to show up to really get the legitimacy ball rolling.

Wow, a Jane Fonda reference.

 

[PantherLotus]

You mean like when someone criticizes socialistic government policies while they drive on public roads or accept social security?

Oh wait, criticizing THOSE people is okay ..

I think this is a nice try, but the difference is that socialized labor could (and does) create consumer goods, while private businesses are utterly incapable of public works (by definition). So, not exactly.

 

[eznark]

Wow, a Jane Fonda reference.

I don't know how they talked so long about Vietnam protests without one, frankly.

How does the NYT cover the tea party rallies?

Flippant at first, then with hyperventilating terror at the evil racists. Speaking of, I wonder if they've started counting blacks yet?

 

[Revenant]

Because very few people know the definition of the term 'plutocracy'

and because internet memes are HILARIOUS in everyday situations and are great at getting your protest to look legitimate.

 

[eudaemonic]

They need to be careful either way. The tax break for loan forgiveness is going to expire soon so if the bank decides to forgive the difference between what it sells the house for and what is owed by the people at the wrong time they could be into uncle sam for hundreds of thousands of dollars that taxes are due on, treated as income.

Do you know when this is set to expire (or what that act is called so I can look it up)?

 

[Something Wicked]

Was Michael Moore still advocating we replace capitalism with "democracy"?

Actually, I think he just caught wind of all of the extra pizza lying around.

 

[Dartastic]

Actually, I think he just caught wind of all of the extra pizza lying around.

I really like how so many people in this thread are more interested in being assholes than actually thinking about ways to fix our horribly broken economy and government.

 

[brucewaynegretzky]

I really like how so many people in this thread are more interested in being assholes than actually thinking about ways to fix our horribly broken economy and government.

I really like how overly serious some people in this thread are. It's a thread on the internet. Discussion is desired and there's nothing wrong with presenting either side, but there's nothing wrong with trying to get a little humor out of it either.

 

[eznark]

I really like how overly serious some people in this thread are. It's a thread on the internet. Discussion is desired and there's nothing wrong with presenting either side, but there's nothing wrong with trying to get a little humor out of it either.

Can't believe you posted this instead of curing cancer. Fucking selfish.

 

[PantherLotus]

and because internet memes are HILARIOUS in everyday situations and are great at getting your protest to look legitimate.

Are you familiar with the history of political protests, political signage, and why talking of legitimacy is somewhat pedantic when talking about either?

 

[Manos: The Hans of Fate]

I think this is a nice try, but the difference is that socialized labor could (and does) create consumer goods, while private businesses are utterly incapable of public works (by definition). So, not exactly.

Except those consumers goods often pale in comparison to ones produced by private actors.

 

[Javaman]

Do you know when this is set to expire (or what that act is called so I can look it up)?

It's set to expire in 2012. I'm on my phone right now so I can't link it but do a google search for (mortgage loan forgiveness) and click on the IRS link. There's a lot of QA on there. It has to be their primary house and the loan can't have been used for anything but the house or improvements. This is a ticking timebomb that's going to snag a LOT of people. Banks aren't going to just go in the hole on these bad loans, they're going to claim the losses against profits to reduce their own owed taxes. The gov then goes after the lendee for the taxes.

 

[eudaemonic]

It's set to expire in 2012. I'm on my phone right now so I can't link it but do a google search for (mortgage loan forgiveness) and click on the IRS link. There's a lot of QA on there. It has to be their primary house and the loan can't have been used for anything but the house or improvements. This is a ticking timebomb that's going to snag a LOT of people. Banks aren't going to just go in the hole on these bad loans, they're going to claim the losses against profits to reduce their own owed taxes. The gov then goes after the lendee for the taxes.

Wow... that's crazy. Thanks for heads up.

 

[x Power Pad Death Stomp x]

Hey Manos, check this out:

http://www.theblaze.com/blog/2011/09/26/video-liberal-protestor-chokes-on-silver-spoon/

 

[akira28]

I really like how so many people in this thread are more interested in being assholes than actually thinking about ways to fix our horribly broken economy and government.

Dart, you have their number already so why be so surprised? One thing is so hard to fix(not really, some people really do just want our way of life to end) even our own government is blocked from prefers to not do it. And of course snarking for the lulz is easy and fun, plus if you're actually serious in your opposition against the smelly hippies anyway, bonus bonus. There might have been a thread supporting the Wall Street protest but as much as we like supporting good causes here at GAF OT, we like getting our ego's boosted by laughing at the lamers of the world even more. So what if hipster hate turns into supporting the dishonesty that goes on over on Wall Street. You made bad investments based on industry lies? You should have done more research, kid.

 

[elrechazado]

well they could look it up on their iphones if they don't know it!

Stop the hate crime of pointing out their nice things.

 

[SolKane]

I really like how so many people in this thread are more interested in being assholes than actually thinking about ways to fix our horribly broken economy and government.

It's the usual suspects.