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Offical NBA2K9 GAF Season 7 Thread of High Hopes
- Thread starter Smokey
- Start date
ecnal said:
I spend more time w/ this game then probably anybody else in this league. I've been admin for I dunno the past 3-4 seasons? In the past I would constantly babysit you guys and have to always respond to PMs about other players. Then I'd have to be the middle man and try and get people to play nice etc. Okay so you can say it worked. This season I did the same thing up until the trade I think when viamadenko was trying to leave and trading his players.
I don't remember exactly what happened but it was constant complaining about why did I do this or that, I'm not being fair and other things along those lines. I eventually got sick of babysitting (ask True) you guys. I figured we're all adults and everybody knew what was expected of them in the league. It takes a lot to try and police the league AND try and be competitive.
So now you have people like you who think it's okay to do stupid unstoppable exploitative moves. When you do it everybody else is pissed off that you're doing it and thus they think it's okay for them to do it. They do it in their next game, opponent thinks it's okay for him to do it and it's a fucking snowball. So in a sense you are a part of the problem by continuing to do what you do with your team man. In the past you would've been kicked out as well as others in here. Just b/c the game allows certain things does not mean it's okay for you to do so. Madden has a bunch of shit that can be done, and that's why when you go to a Madden Challenge they have a list of things that are not okay, and if you do them in play you are out. I need to really take this approach if we are going to play again next season.
So okay I guess you can blame it on me or w/e. I basically thought that I could trust everybody to play in line with what this league is supposed to be (sim) without me having to exert so much energy into policing everybody. I've a life just like the rest of you and when I get home from w/e sometimes I don't feel like babysitting.
I can see how that has worked out though, so if there is one more season then maybe I'll have to be an asshole. That's really not my style and I say it every season b/c I try and give the members the benefit of the doubt, but again I see how that has worked out.
ph33nix said:
..why?
FrenchMovieTheme
Member
a league without rules is awful in ANY sports game. not all of us know these "exploits" and how to take advantage of the game. so then it comes down to who knows how to abuse more? that's horrible.
Smokey said:
I can agree with everything single thing you said here.
In years past and last year especially we had an awesome group of guys. We played games that looked like real games. My games last season against Pheeniks, DM, CB3, and Airbrian were incredible. I would be playing them and be almost gleefully happy about how realistic the flow was (I don't list Smokey because I had such a hard time staying competitive against him in 2k8 that our games looked more like his team was playing against a high school team).
My point is we played "SIM" or at least attempted to. But we only had a 12 to 16 guys ever. I was very excited to have a large league this year and it started out great but the wheels fell off a bit, people found the exploits and adjusted their games. Even regular players started doing things that I found questionable.
Smokey and I had a lot of conversations about how to police things and there are several players we could have done without if we were determined to play "SIM". But we both agreed that we can't and wont police "style".
We can't decide how people have fun with this game. We can put in rules to attempt to make people play a certain way, but we can't police everything.
The worst thing I have seen this year is how dependent some teams are on an individual player. I hate it because it's not "SIM". Finding things in the game that are unstoppable and then having them in your back pocket for when you need to fight for that win is not fun basketball.
The game deserves some of the blame. But it's the players fault for using the exploits that they have found in the game. We have too many people that now play this like a "game" and not like basketball.
I would love to have another season. Would love to. But I don't want to be playing people that take advantage of this game. I want to play against people that have more than one player in double figures each game. That don't take more than half of their teams shots with one player. That don't let the computer do all the hard work on defense.
I want to play basketball, not NBA2k9. If some of you are still interested in that let me or Smokey know and maybe we'll run this thing back one more time.
We shall see how this all works itself out.
* Are any of my opponents around to play? I've got today and today only to run some games. Let's roll.
charsace said:
I have neither of those games and I couldn't honestly play Live at and and enjoy it. It's just too different from this. I'm too used to this that when I play Live all I see if how it isn't 2k9 and I don't see any of it's positives.
So I wouldn't be rolling in those leagues.
ecnal
Member
Smokey said:
i don't disagree with you at all. but there's no point to play in this league while getting demolished by certain people who abuse animation sets, and then just complain to an admin about it because those situations break into the exact same scenario every time:
player a: player b was cheesing me, this is stupid.
player b: player a is a whinny bitch, this is stupid.
i don't expect you to police every game, nor do i expect for the league to be some kind of ultra-policed environment. however, i do expect to be able to play a normal game and not have people abuse game logic on me. it has happened to me multiple times over this season. if i were to give you a number, i'd a say a third of the games i've played have had players abusing certain animation sets repeatedly and knowingly.
there's no choice for any of us who play in this league. we either get demolished and complain (nothing happens) or we change our style of play. there's literally no alternative. like i've said in earlier posts, i play in this league because, in theory, it offers the environment in which to trust all of our opponents to play a competitive and simulation style of play. i think my numerous PM's with you prove that i'm 100% interested in playing that style of sim basketball. however, i'm not just going to fill up your inbox every other game because someone is abusing the game's logic. it's taxing for you (like you said), and it generally just turns into a bitch-fest here in the thread.
and i wasn't entirely putting the blame on you. in my mind the blame lies on, really, a couple people who have proven that they're more interested in abusing game mechanics rather than playing basketball, and the mismanagement of that situation by admins. i can go through this thread and see one person in particular who has been called out numerous times... something could have been publicly said or done.
and on a lesser note, it's also really pathetic that i'm the only one who is even admitting that i'm looking for certain animations to happen. I COPIED THEM from players in this league who continually come in this thread with a mask on and pretend that they play legit basketball. i'm not sure if you guys understand that. i literally copied move for move what certain people do to me for an entire game. so the fact that i'm the only one here saying anything about it (aka confirming that indeed these move sets/animation packages are cheese) is testament to the fact that these people refuse to admit that they're doing any wrong.
to be 100% clear, i copied their styles of play to prove a point. specifically that these moves DO have a calculable effect on the outcome of a game. this has been done in order to have factual evidence that doing these things has a real and predictable outcome in order to remove them from the league.
Truelize said:
you're really only talking about one player in this league.
ChrisJames
Member
Mrbob said:
I'm not going to be able to play today, sorry. I've had a lot of stuff going on this past week and whenever I'm avaialbe most of my opponents haven't been. Not anyone's fault, just life.
I'll only be able to play tomorrow between 4-6 pm Eastern. It's fine if no one can play then... just coin toss it or give me the loss. Bob can have the W for my game against him because I had told him that I would be able to play this afternoon.
ChrisJames
Member
It's ok, don't worry about it.
ecnal
Member
did you read anything i posted?
calling them out will turn this thread into the aforementioned scenario, which is pointless and rather annoying. it's human nature to defend yourself, so i wouldn't expect any of them to actually admit to doing any wrong. that's why i copied their style; to prove what they won't say.
but don't worry, you're not one of the players. :lol
calling them out will turn this thread into the aforementioned scenario, which is pointless and rather annoying. it's human nature to defend yourself, so i wouldn't expect any of them to actually admit to doing any wrong. that's why i copied their style; to prove what they won't say.
but don't worry, you're not one of the players. :lol
ecnal said:
I'm actually not just talking about one person here. There are several players that have done things that if I had my way and actually felt it was ok to police "style" I would have kicked them out at the end of my game with them.
It's very hard as an admin group to agree on what to police.
strikeselect
You like me, you really really like me!
Lakers and Raptors, I'm available tonight. let me know when you guys can go.
ph33nix said:
The best thing we ever did was enforce manual defense. I can't believe you would even suggest not playing it.
It is extremely easy to just let a high rated defender guard the star players and do all the hard work for you.
I just played against DCX and he did a really good job at shutting down Bron. And he did it himself, not with cheesy manual double teams or by letting the computer do the work.
* it does suck that it's so easy to block Bron and his slow-ass animation
strikeselect
You like me, you really really like me!
DiddyBop said:
can you play now
strikeselect
You like me, you really really like me!
DiddyBop said:
gimme 10 mins, ill be in the lobby
FrenchMovieTheme
Member
when does the week advance? and smokey can you update the playoff standings as of now? can't remember if 2k fixed the game "seeing" conferences separately or just groups the best 16 teams in the playoffs
Truelize said:
How is this that bad? Then what is the purpose of having a good defensive rated team if all that happens is a superstar player cramming it down your throat thanks to an animation?
It is nearly impossible to stop those fast powerful dunking players unless you let the computer do your work. I don't think anyone can deny this. It is clear that offense is more powerful than defense in this game.
And how is manual doubling cheese? The game's double-team system is broken and manual doubling is the only way. Even last year you called me out because I set "too many picks" and then you called my switch-off-let-AI-block "cheap" even though the offensive player never loses his dribble and can run around until the defender is lost completely. If our fundamental differences are that big then I don't think I should play in this league anymore.
FrenchMovieTheme
Member
its the lesser of 2 evils. yeah it sucks to be playing against the CPU defense, but how does it NOT suck for someone who doesn't have one of these 99 rated dunk guys like smith or lebron? all you need to do is drive to the basket and dunk with ease. yeah, maybe i stop you 3 out of 10 times or something, but it's always there and it is just as bad as CPU defense.
i would say if someone is continually catching the ball and just raging bull to the basket you should have the option to let the cpu handle them.
i would say if someone is continually catching the ball and just raging bull to the basket you should have the option to let the cpu handle them.
FrenchMovieTheme said:
tomorrow.
I think it groups the best 16 teams.
I can change the matchups of whomever is in the playoffs before I press the submit button for playoffs ( I can't however change who gets in and who doesn't). So I'm going to make it like the real playoffs where you go through teams in your conference by seeding.
The problem comes in when say 10 teams get in from one conference (b/c of overall record), and only 6 from the other.
FrenchMovieTheme
Member
hopefully 15-15 gets me into the playoffs, but that will mean i need to win 4 out of 5 and im not so sure about that given the people i have to play :/
FrenchMovieTheme said:
this. i wouldn't mind enforcing a manual defense but for god's sake let me allow the option to let the AI play the star player. if i have to defend your star player at least let my star defender be worth anything, because when i manually control him stats like "defensive awareness" go to moot
FrenchMovieTheme
Member
you're probably right. i had a great game with carroll and a good game with dirk and still lost by 9 points. if i can just get a few stops here and there i'll be in it but my defense is really bad this season (worst in the league infact)
i also dont think ill beat cb but thats why we play the games maybe ill steal a couple!
FrenchMovieTheme
Member
i was watching the suns-spurs game today and couldn't help but pay attention to the way defense was played and how rotations worked. the defensive help/rotations in NBA 2k9 are so ridiculously bad to how they are in real life. and even in REAL life, where the rotations for the spurs were excellent, the suns could still make shots with that little bit of daylight. so then you look at 2k9, where the rotations are non-existent and you have a fucking football field worth of room sometimes because of bad rotations and you can see where problems come in.
i don't expect perfection but hopefully next year they make additional strides to tighten the AI. i hate to use the term "so close but so far away" but that kind of describes nba 2k9. it seems like there are only a handful of fixes that need to be made, but this handful of problems really brings the final product down.
i still like the game and at it's best (when you are playing against someone who runs half court, looks for open shots, plays as close to sim ball as you can) the game is incredibly fun
i don't expect perfection but hopefully next year they make additional strides to tighten the AI. i hate to use the term "so close but so far away" but that kind of describes nba 2k9. it seems like there are only a handful of fixes that need to be made, but this handful of problems really brings the final product down.
i still like the game and at it's best (when you are playing against someone who runs half court, looks for open shots, plays as close to sim ball as you can) the game is incredibly fun
kirbybreezy
Member
I can go. I left you a message on XBL. Neogaf kept giving me 500 errors.
kirbybreezy
Member
So um, I'm gonna go out on a limb here and just say it. The person I think you are talking about ecnal is "Cerrius".
fucked up thing is, last season when he dropped 71 on me in the playoffs. I didn't feel cheesed. Maybe because I didn't lose the game. But I really had fun trying to stop Beasley in single coverage. And Cerrius used every moveset and inch of the court to get those 71 points. It was a beautiful thing to watch to be honest.
Cerrius legitly manufactured those points. is it sim? Hell no. Was it an exploit? I dont think so, at least not as exploitative as I have seen some others do.
Now that I know you were trying to prove a point, I feel I can comment about your new playstyle.
As soon as our game started, and you used one exploit where you hit your trailing PF with a lead pass and instant dunk I was pretty disgusted. You were one of the better players in the league to play against last year when you had the Jazz, and in this game it was clear you just didn't care.
I would say of all my games, yours was clearly the most cheap. I understand your reason for doing this, you definitely got everyone's attention about the situation. But I feel you have amplified it and exacerbated it.
If this was a response to Cerrius, like I said before. I don't think he is a cheap player. He works for his points. Wherever you said you have seen these exploitative moves, I had not seem them in this league until I played you.
Again, maybe you were trying to bring the exploits to the next level by exagerrating their use. But I feel if you are trying to use Cerrius as your reasoning for this, then I don't see the point.
But maybe I'm just whistling dixie here because I did not see the game between you two. Or if I am indeed correct that it is Cerrius because he didn't have Beasley when you guys played.
fucked up thing is, last season when he dropped 71 on me in the playoffs. I didn't feel cheesed. Maybe because I didn't lose the game. But I really had fun trying to stop Beasley in single coverage. And Cerrius used every moveset and inch of the court to get those 71 points. It was a beautiful thing to watch to be honest.
Cerrius legitly manufactured those points. is it sim? Hell no. Was it an exploit? I dont think so, at least not as exploitative as I have seen some others do.
Now that I know you were trying to prove a point, I feel I can comment about your new playstyle.
As soon as our game started, and you used one exploit where you hit your trailing PF with a lead pass and instant dunk I was pretty disgusted. You were one of the better players in the league to play against last year when you had the Jazz, and in this game it was clear you just didn't care.
I would say of all my games, yours was clearly the most cheap. I understand your reason for doing this, you definitely got everyone's attention about the situation. But I feel you have amplified it and exacerbated it.
If this was a response to Cerrius, like I said before. I don't think he is a cheap player. He works for his points. Wherever you said you have seen these exploitative moves, I had not seem them in this league until I played you.
Again, maybe you were trying to bring the exploits to the next level by exagerrating their use. But I feel if you are trying to use Cerrius as your reasoning for this, then I don't see the point.
But maybe I'm just whistling dixie here because I did not see the game between you two. Or if I am indeed correct that it is Cerrius because he didn't have Beasley when you guys played.
kirbybreezy
Member
Also, something really weird happened in my game against the Jazz. There was no stamina, but also it seemed like were were playing in Arcade mode or something.
There used to be a mode back in like 2k7 in addition to setting the difficulty, you could set play mode to "Simulation" or "Arcade" or something. In simulation mode player movement's are much slower, and transitions between animations are a lot more delayed.
Take a look at Brandon Roy's numbers for that game, and his shot chart.
As much as I would like to say that he was on fire that game, or I set him up for good shots, these were the same shots he's always been getting.
The difference was that there was really no noticeable delay between the running dribble and shoot animation. And so I was able to get fluid shots off. Hence I think it was on Arcade mode or something.
In my game against the Heat I felt like we were in Arcade mode in the first half and then Simulation in the second half - if that makes any sense. All the movements were different, and I was thrown off. Whereas before I would tap the shot button for a quick second to get a shot off, now I would have to hold it longer. Several times I would have semi open shots, think I was shooting and then pump fake and let the defense recover instead. Or try to pump fake but actually end up shooting it and getting blocked
I think this is more than just a change in the online lag. The game was noticeably different. It was like Bizarro world or some shit.
A week or two ago I remember we were getting online errors saying that "Our framerates are incompatible" And I just realized that whenever I play 2k9 on a different TV and with different connections I see a slightly different game being played.
Over component I see one way, over VGA I see another, and over composite I see yet another....They're like totally different game speeds, tempos, animation transitions etc. and this is Offline play, even if we were just playing on the same box or against the computer.
There used to be a mode back in like 2k7 in addition to setting the difficulty, you could set play mode to "Simulation" or "Arcade" or something. In simulation mode player movement's are much slower, and transitions between animations are a lot more delayed.
Take a look at Brandon Roy's numbers for that game, and his shot chart.
As much as I would like to say that he was on fire that game, or I set him up for good shots, these were the same shots he's always been getting.
The difference was that there was really no noticeable delay between the running dribble and shoot animation. And so I was able to get fluid shots off. Hence I think it was on Arcade mode or something.
In my game against the Heat I felt like we were in Arcade mode in the first half and then Simulation in the second half - if that makes any sense. All the movements were different, and I was thrown off. Whereas before I would tap the shot button for a quick second to get a shot off, now I would have to hold it longer. Several times I would have semi open shots, think I was shooting and then pump fake and let the defense recover instead. Or try to pump fake but actually end up shooting it and getting blocked
I think this is more than just a change in the online lag. The game was noticeably different. It was like Bizarro world or some shit.
A week or two ago I remember we were getting online errors saying that "Our framerates are incompatible" And I just realized that whenever I play 2k9 on a different TV and with different connections I see a slightly different game being played.
Over component I see one way, over VGA I see another, and over composite I see yet another....They're like totally different game speeds, tempos, animation transitions etc. and this is Offline play, even if we were just playing on the same box or against the computer.
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