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[YianGaruga]

So why do Elena and Dudley not count?
Serious question, maybe I'm missing something

 

[Heavy's Sandvich]

Can I say the one Turk we get across all gaming has turquoise hair and red skin?

Like what is that?

 

[vocab]

Elena doesn't look black?

.........................what?

She looks more like an alien

 

[Village]

So why do Elena and Dudley not count?
Serious question, maybe I'm missing something

Dudley one of those black characters people like to argue isn't black for whatever reason.

Also as a black man, I will make an argument for current balrog.

 

[Dragonslayer_023]

Then they need to add an option to block costumes you don't want to see.

No one should require that feature.

 

[Cindi Mayweather]

Help me understand this one aspect of your post better, Cindi:

Are you criticizing certain characters for not being "black enough", then immediately turn around and say another character is 'too Arab'?

Street Fighter, as a series, has always used broad stereotypes for their characters. Here's a Japanese guy that is a heavy-set sumo wrestler. Here's a Russian that's big and wrestles bears. Here's an Indian guy that is skinny and does yoga moves. The list goes on and on. Sure, a person's level of acceptance of that method of character design varies, and yeah, there's nothing wrong with wanting Capcom to be more progressive or understanding or whatever- but personally I don't see anything overtly offensive. Even if they had a drunken Irish character that looked suspiciously like a leprechaun (I'm Irish), I'd probably just laugh it off and say "Oh Ono!". But that's me.

What SFV is doing is nothing new for Japanese developers. In fact, it's pretty damn tame considering some of the shit that's out there.

I'm not critizing any characters for not being black enough. Japanese games have a history with a lack of black characters. The problem is that people assume dark skin = black, which it isn't. Because Sean has dark skin, doesn't mean he's Black. Go search for the Suikoden III Hugo is black thread from the other week. We talk about this very subject. So when discussing Black characters I'm quite cognizant of how I interpret who is Black, especially when discussing who is a reapectable Black character.

You shouldn't take that is me saying a character isn't Black enough. You should be seeing me as questioning if whether or not a specific character really is Black to begin with as the original artist intent.

There's nothing wrong with being "too Arab" but as SF's first Arab character he's a walk stereotype.

Sure, fighting games historically made up their casts around stereotypes around the world in the past, but because it's something its always done doesn't make it inherently right. Plus, there are many options for someone who wants a respectable white dude or a respectable Asian dude that's not a stereotype. But when you want to play a Black character you can't have it unless he looks likes a complete thug (Balrog) or is always smiling like a joke character even while getting hit (Dee Jay). From the Turkish oil wrestler who doesn't even look human (Hakan) to the stereotypical Arab (Rashid), when wanting to play more dark skinned characters usually the rule is to expect a caricature. I'm not sure how that's okay in 2016.

And now I have to deal with the female characters being DOA-ized as well.

 

[Warxard]

I'm not critizing any characters for not being black enough. Japanese games have a history with a lack of black characters. The problem is that people assume dark skin = black, which it isn't. Because Sean has dark skin, doesn't mean he's Black. Go search for the Suikoden III Hugo is black thread from the other week. We talk about this very subject. So when discussing Black characters I'm quite cognizant of how I interpret who is Black, especially when discussing who is a reapectable Black character.

You shouldn't take that is me saying a character isn't Black enough. You should be seeing me as questioning if whether or not a specific character really is Black to begin with as the original artist intent.

There's nothing wrong with being "too Arab" but as SF's first Arab character he's a walk stereotype.

Sure, fighting games historically made up their casts around stereotypes around the world in the past, but because it's something its always done doesn't make it inherently right. Plus, there are many options for someone who wants a respectable white dude or a respectable Asian dude that's not a stereotype. But when you want to play a Black character you can't have it unless he looks likes a complete thug (Balrog) or is always smiling like a joke character even while getting hit (Dee Jay). From the Turkish oil wrestler who doesn't even look human (Hakan) to the stereotypical Arab (Rashid), when wanting to play more dark skinned characters usually the rule is to expect a caricature. I'm not sure how that's okay in 2016.

And now I have to deal with the female characters being DOA-ized as well.

Kind of sucks that Street Fighter is probably the only fighting game IP that portrays black characters in an annoyingly goofy fashion.

I'd argue Birdie seeing as he's actually a 'dark-washed' character (he was originally a white dude), but he's still a ridiculously goofy individual. Even moreso in SFV where they made him a fat slob.

 

[Cindi Mayweather]

So why do Elena and Dudley not count?
Serious question, maybe I'm missing something

What Black person do you know have silver hair? I dare you to research Black fighting game and anime characters and see which of them actually look like Black people and DON'T have silver hair. Count how many don't have silver hair.

As for Dudley, he doesn't look Black at all. He's dark skinned, but again, dark skin != Black.

 

[Hyun Sai]

I think Hot Ryu showed that it's not always "more skin" that people want from male fan service. Dead Or Alive has Rig and Jann Lee in short and tight underwear but no one seems to care.



Meanwhile people went nuts over a topless, bearded Ryu

There always were skin revealing costumes for male in many fighters in fact.

And much more...

http://i.ytimg.com/vi/TFIHNp1hHWg/maxresdefault.jpg

http://www.levelupyourgame.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/07/HeiKazBikini.jpg

http://fast1.onesite.com/capcom-unity.com/user/s-kill/feilong_cammy_0175.jpg?v=202200

 

[patapuf]

Fighting games sure are serious business. One Laura alt that's not even out and people absolutely lose their minds. One character in the game that's actually in your face about their sexuality. Can't even have that.

People have their classy strong character with Chun. They have their upper class tier young woman with Karin. They have stoic military cammy who's worn the same thing for 25 years. One over exaggerated, larger than life, buff wrestler chick. But one character who's sole purpose is to be sexually arousing is some huge problem. Why can't there be a type for each person without one side getting mad at the other?

I don't want to hear that this is keeping people from wanting to play the game or that its holding us back when fighting games have literally gotten bigger every single year since since 2009 and doesn't show any signs of not keeping up the same trend. With or without Laura this game was going to be big. A single character's clothes and overly sexual nature isn't going to stop that.

If it makes you uncomfortable then that's honestly something you need to work out with yourself.

This is a highly anticipated release and people debate every little bit of media/info that is released. If it's only a few costumes these will get discussed to death.

Look at all the graphical analysis pre-release/launch threads - that discussion almost instantly disapears as soon as a game is out, because people will be playing.

Unless All SF V costumes are skimpy/terrible you'll probably not hear from this topic again either.

If people can't deal with the pre-release news cycle i'd avoid those threads.

 

[YianGaruga]

What Black person do you know have silver hair? I dare you to research Black fighting game and anime characters and see which of them actually look like Black people and DON'T have silver hair. Count how many don't have silver hair.

As for Dudley, he doesn't look Black at all. He's dark skinned, but again, dark skin = Black.

Half of all anime characters have blue hair.. I don't think that's a great argument
But I feel like this isn't something that I know enough about to discuss. I think I get what you mean

 

[jon bones]

As for Dudley, he doesn't look Black at all. He's dark skinned, but again, dark skin != Black.

in addition to his in-SF-universe blackness, this is the real life boxer Dudley is based off of so let's just nip this "Dudley isn't black" thing in the bud.

 

[ShinMaruku]

Vanessa in Vf is black and she has the silver hair. Elena is very clearly back too, they are homages to Storm from X-men.

 

[aly]

I like the alts., especially Chun-Li. Did'nt eve bat an eye at that Laura outfit. At least she looks good in it, I've seen worse in real life.

 

[Cindi Mayweather]

in addition to his in-SF-universe blackness, this is the real life boxer Dudley is based off of so let's just nip this "Dudley isn't black" thing in the bud.

I never said he wasn't Black. I asked a question and wanted to know people's thoughts. Thanks for the clarification. Dudley still doesn't look anything like him, though. Dudley has similar attire, but he looks nothing like the character who he is inspired by. Their skin colors aren't remotely the same, not to mention the hair.

 

[RockTurtle]

so you ain't black unless you got an afro and are not at least an B3 on this image?

or when you say "Black" you mean like american-black or western? or features representative of an african nation?

i want to know, cause i'm getting confused sounds like you say one thing then another.

EDIT:

and to be fair i always thought dudley to be more of indian-east asian descent than "black"

 

[Dreams-Visions]

I'll appreciate Capcom giving proper homage and respect to the ass.

We don't like pancake asses and clearly neither do you. Thank you, Capcom.

 

[Cindi Mayweather]

Kind of sucks that Street Fighter is probably the only fighting game IP that portrays black characters in an annoyingly goofy fashion.

I'd argue Birdie seeing as he's actually a 'dark-washed' character (he was originally a white dude), but he's still a ridiculously goofy individual. Even moreso in SFV where they made him a fat slob.

Birdie was originally fine. But now he's a dude that scarfs down donuts as big as his stomach. Another goofy Black character.

 

[Heavy's Sandvich]

I never said he wasn't Black. I asked a question and wanted to know people's thoughts. Thanks for the clarification. Dudley still doesn't look anything like him, though. Dudley has similar attire, but he looks nothing like the character who he is inspired by. Their skin colors aren't remotely the same, not to mention the hair.

I don't understand the point you're making.

It pays homage to Chris Eubank and has his own design.

I don't get your point.

 

[TheJollyCorner]

I'm not critizing any characters for not being black enough. Japanese games have a history with a lack of black characters. The problem is that people assume dark skin = black, which it isn't. Because Sean has dark skin, doesn't mean he's Black. Go search for the Suikoden III Hugo is black thread from the other week. We talk about this very subject. So when discussing Black characters I'm quite cognizant of how I interpret who is Black, especially when discussing who is a reapectable Black character.

You shouldn't take that is me saying a character isn't Black enough. You should be seeing me as questioning if whether or not a specific character really is Black to begin with as the original artist intent.

There's nothing wrong with being "too Arab" but as SF's first Arab character he's a walk stereotype.

Sure, fighting games historically made up their casts around stereotypes around the world in the past, but because it's something its always done doesn't make it inherently right. Plus, there are many options for someone who wants a respectable white dude or a respectable Asian dude that's not a stereotype. But when you want to play a Black character you can't have it unless he looks likes a complete thug (Balrog) or is always smiling like a joke character even while getting hit (Dee Jay). From the Turkish oil wrestler who doesn't even look human (Hakan) to the stereotypical Arab (Rashid), when wanting to play more dark skinned characters usually the rule is to expect a caricature. I'm not sure how that's okay in 2016.

And now I have to deal with the female characters being DOA-ized as well.

Thanks for the post.
I understand where you are coming from. For me, Street Fighter (at least starting from SF2) has always been so comically exaggerated that I never batted an eye. It does make me sad to hear that the series is potentially losing people that share your perspective, as underneath their design choices there is still an excellent game there.

 

[Skilletor]

so you ain't black unless you got an afro and are not at least an L3 on this image?



or when you say "Black" you mean like american-black or western? or features representative of an african nation?

Yeah, I'm really confused at what 'black' means in this thread.

And I'm a black man.

 

[ShinMaruku]

He is based off this gentleman in their design doc if I am recalling properly. But really let us not get too into the weeds with this because fighting games have been the more positive portrayals of people of colour in games. You have Raven and Vanessa professional assassins, Lisa a scientist, Zack the
Billionaire mogul and or dude for foster, Bruce Irvin a bodyguard and others. We can also note Balrog and Dudley as great boxers and so on.

 

[zedreamcast]

I never said he wasn't Black. I asked a question and wanted to know people's thoughts. Thanks for the clarification. Dudley still doesn't look anything like him, though. Dudley has similar attire, but he looks nothing like the character who he is inspired by. Their skin colors aren't remotely the same, not to mention the hair.

So because he doesnt fit your stereotype of what a black person looks like, he doesnt count. Cause i guess all black people look the same.

 

[drotahorror]

Some of the costumes are pretty good imo.

Why the title change though?

 

[Cindi Mayweather]

so you ain't black unless you got an afro and are not at least an L3 on this image?



or when you say "Black" you mean like american-black or western? or features representative of an african nation?

i want to know, cause i'm getting confused sounds like you say one thing then another.

Most Black people have the same or similar curly hair on this planet. Not all Black people have black hair. Some have brown, some have red, some even blonde. But the curly hair thing is a constant unless chemically altered or mixed.

Skin color is whatever. As I said before, dark skin != Black. There are Latinos and Indians darker than me and they're not considered Black. I am.

 

[Heavy's Sandvich]

Some of the costumes are pretty good imo.

Why the title change though?

There are many tears being shed, many words being typed because:

1)Laura doesn't have a brain
2)Middle aged japanese salaryman dressed her
3)Bonita is written in comic sans

 

[Cindi Mayweather]

So because he doesnt fit your stereotype of what a black person looks like, he doesnt count. Cause i guess all black people look the same.

What in the hell are you talking about? Stereotype?

 

[Heavy's Sandvich]

Most Black people have the same curly hair on this planet. Not all Black people have black hair. Some have brown, some have red, some even blonde. But the curly hair thing is a constant unless chemically altered.

Skin color is whatever. As I said before, dark skin != Black. There are Latinos and Indians darker than me and they're not considered Black. I am.

So Dudley is black yeah?

Is he a goofy one?

 

[Warxard]

Wait, the title was changed? That's the original title I gave the thread lol.

 

[Dark Ninja]

Um Dudley and Elena aren't black? LOL

Also Brazilians can be black, light skinned or even white. Sean and Laura are related but they could have different parents or one could be darker than the other. Welcome to Brazil.

 

[Captainbob]

Some outfits in motion:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BioYOc1yfHw

 

[jon bones]

I never said he wasn't Black. I asked a question and wanted to know people's thoughts. Thanks for the clarification. Dudley still doesn't look anything like him, though. Dudley has similar attire, but he looks nothing like the character who he is inspired by. Their skin colors aren't remotely the same, not to mention the hair.

i think they learned their lesson after the M. Bison = Mike Tyson thing.

regardless, i 100% agree games (Japanese ones in particular) have a long way to go in their portrayal of minorities and women. i'm not a fan of Laura's new alt, but i do appreciate them giving Mika some clothes in her new alt. i'm also a fan of introducing a new woman of color in the game, despite the fanservice.

 

[zedreamcast]

What in the hell are you talking about? Stereotype?

You literally just said that all black people have curly hair, which is in fact a stereotype, cause youre 100% wrong not all black people have curly hair.

 

[The Metal Face]

I actually don't know of any street fighter character that doesn't fit some sort of trope like non-sense. That's what Street Fighter has always been. That's its thing. Being over the top and crazy has always been its thing. Its why the other fighters don't do it. Its Street Fighter's thing.

We have the "respectable" black characters already. But it seems like when they're respectable all of a sudden their "blackness" is called into question. Both Elena and Dudley are black. But then we get the "name one black person with white hair" argument. When the black character with white or blonde hair has been a character trope for decades. I also challenge you to find one black person that can bacwards kick 6ft into the air or shoot max outs.

 

[Cindi Mayweather]

So Dudley is black yeah?

Is he a goofy one?

I dunno. I don't want to claim to be an expert, but I can only give my own opinion

Because I mean...

He doesn't look Black at all. He looks more White Italian than he does Black.

 

[Cindi Mayweather]

You literally just said that all black people have curly hair, which is in fact a stereotype, cause youre 100% wrong not all black people have curly hair.

I didn't say 100% of Black people have curly hair. But most of us DO unless chemically altered or mixed. How is this a stereotype? That's fucking reality.

 

[RockTurtle]

ah ok now i see where you are coming from cindi.

so when you complain of games not having enough people of color or minorities, you don't mean more brown-skinned people, just more afro-ethnic features right?

 

[Heavy's Sandvich]

what about if he's mixed heritage?

 

[Village]

I dunno. I don't want to claim to be an expert, but I can only give my own opinion

Because I mean...

He doesn't look Black at all. He looks more White Italian than he does Black.

That looks like a black man.

....

My cousin has strait hair, doesn't make him less black.

 

[jett]

Some of you are fucking WEIRD when it comes to Dudley.

The man's black.

 

[Palculator]

 

[Cindi Mayweather]

what about if he's mixed heritage?

Maybe he is!

i think they learned their lesson after the M. Bison = Mike Tyson thing.

regardless, i 100% agree games (Japanese ones in particular) have a long way to go in their portrayal of minorities and women. i'm not a fan of Laura's new alt, but i do appreciate them giving Mika some clothes in her new alt. i'm also a fan of introducing a new woman of color in the game, despite the fanservice.

I agree with all of that.

 

[zedreamcast]

I didn't say 100% of Black people have curly hair. But most of us DO unless chemically altered or mixed. How is this a stereotype? That's fucking reality.

But still we dont know where Dudleys heritage is from, he coult be jamacian like the man hes based on, or he could be of african decent. I will agree that street fighter is pretty bad on its representation of characters all throughout. Im a mexican and the only two mexican characters are a denim clad native american and an luchador who yells tortilla and quesadilla.

 

[Village]

if you show some of you all black babies born with blond hair, or green eyes you all might explode your brains

 

[RockTurtle]

i still say dudley is Indian-Asian descent.

it fits it with the whole british motiff and history. physical features as well.

if you show some of you all black babies born with blond hair, or green eyes you all might explode your brains

 

[Palculator]

i still say dudley is Indian-Asian descent.

it fits it with the whole british motiff and history. physical features as well.

Not like the Brits kept outta Africa, though.

 

[Village]

i still say dudley is Indian-Asian descent.

it fits it with the whole british motiff and history. physical features as well.

Or he's black and British, like the bunches of British black people. There are a lot of em.

 

[zedreamcast]

Or he's black and British, like the bunches of British black people. There are a lot of em.

The guy hes based of is jamacian tho, so the question is would sean count as black and would deejay since theyre not african.

 

[mollipen]

Can I say the one Turk we get across all gaming has turquoise hair and red skin?

Like what is that?

That's not his hair. He's wearing a hat/helmet.

 

[Village]

The guy hes based of is jamacian tho, so the question is would sean count as black and would deejay since theyre not african.

is this sarcasm?

That's not his hair. He's wearing a hat/helmet.

no his daughters have the hair,