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[zoku88]

It's a metalloid, close enough >.>

EDIT: Trax, maybe you're misunderstanding my arguments. I'm mainly saying there are certain games (like strategy games) that are more CPU intensive than GPU intensive and thus, those see performance improvements when there are improvements in architecture.

 

[Blackface]

I think you're confused. The architecture itself is actually better. Even if the memory controller weren't integrated, Nehalem would still be faster clock for clock...

I think you fail to understand that some games that are actually CPU intensive. If you've ever played Supreme Commander online, you'd notice that some games mention a minimum CPU model...

Who said the architecture is not superior. Not me. I am not talking about the architecture.

Obviously Clock for Clock the CPU is faster then Core2's, but for gaming, the Price is not worth the performance. You can buy an Intel E8400 for $140, then overclock it to 4ghz easily, or 3.6 ghz on stock voltage with the stock HSF.

A Comparable Nehalem CPU, not including the new motherboard and ram you will need, will be far more expensive and give you a Minimal increase in performance for gaming.

If you had to pick between a upgrading to a Nehalem CPU, or upgrading your graphic card to a 4870X2, you would find a WAY larger performance increase in games grabing a 4870X2 and it would cost you about half it will to do a full Nehalem upgrade.

My argument was never Core2's are better for gaming, or the new I7's are not superior. It was that it's not worth the money to upgrade one, or even think about waiting to buy one for a gamer.

If you can already play 99.9 for the next 2 years at 60+FPS, why spend the money? Especially when you will find bigger performance increases spending less, on the best Graphic cards on the market.

It makes 0 sense for a gamer to upgrade until at least a year into the new CPU's.

 

[Danj]

My argument was never Core2's are better for gaming, or the new I7's are not superior. It was that it's not worth the money to upgrade one, or even think about waiting to buy one for a gamer.

This is the correct answer. Going Core i7 (Nehalem) involves an entire platform change, with brand new CPU models (=expensive), a new socket (=more expensive motherboards), and DDR3 RAM (=more expensive RAM). The performance increase that you gain does not justify the massive increase in costs, so at this time it is better to stick with Core 2.

 

[zoku88]

Who said the architecture is not superior. Not me. I am not talking about the architecture.

Obviously Clock for Clock the CPU is faster then Core2's, but for gaming, the Price is not worth the performance. You can buy an Intel E8400 for $140, then overclock it to 4ghz easily, or 3.6 ghz on stock voltage with the stock HSF.

A Comparable Nehalem CPU, not including the new motherboard and ram you will need, will be far more expensive and give you a Minimal increase in performance for gaming.

Minimal increase depending on the games. Perhaps if you play games that are really gfx intensive, it doesn't make sense. But if you almost exclusively play strategy games (more of which will most likely be multithreaded and not that graphically bottlenecked.)

You say it's not worth it and that you'd rather get a 4870X2, but maybe that's just because of the type of games you play...

EDIT: Not to mention if you play strategy games in windowed mode...

 

[Danj]

Minimal increase depending on the games. Perhaps if you play games that are really gfx intensive, it doesn't make sense. But if you almost exclusively play strategy games (more of which will most likely be multithreaded and not that graphically bottlenecked.)

You say it's not worth it and that you'd rather get a 4870X2, but maybe that's just because of the type of games you play...

EDIT: Not to mention if you play strategy games in windowed mode...

I think the point here is not necessarily that the increase is minimal, but that the amount of increase in performance does not justify the huge increase in cost.

 

[zoku88]

I think the point here is not necessarily that the increase is minimal, but that the amount of increase in performance does not justify the huge increase in cost.

Well, that depends on the person (and, as I said, the types of games you play AND how you play them,) which would make arguing kinda silly.

And why do you assume it's a huge difference in cost. Maybe compared to a dual-core, but compared to a current quad-core, the prices are more or less the same.

DDR3 is dramatically decreasing in price and will probably decrease faster once Nehalem hits due to increased volume. (if you check over the past year, it's dropped by a couple hundred.) For 4GB (2 x 2GB,) I would be surprised if the price difference was more than $100 by the end of Winter. You can even bookmark this for ownage if you wanted to.

 

[Menmanelf]

Asus P5E3 Intel X38 Socket 775 DDR3 PCI-E SATA II Raid GB LAN Firewire Motherboard

2 sets of Corsair TWIN3X2048-1600C7DHX 2GB DDR3 (2x1GB) 1600Mhz Non-ECC

Sapphire ATI Radeon HD 4870 512MB GDDR5 TV-Out/Dual DVI/HDMI PCI-Express Graphics Card

Intel Quad Core Q6600 95Watt G0 Stepping 4 x 2.40Ghz 8Mb Cache 1066 FSB Quad Core Processor

Arctic Cooling Freezer 7 Pro Socket 775 CPU Cooler

Corsair TX 750W ATX2.2 PSU

Thermaltake Tsunami Dream Black Aluminium Case

Samsung Spin Point F1 SATAII NCQ 1TB 32Mb Cache Hard Drive <8.9ms 7200rpm


Any opinions or suggested changes before I order this stuff on saturday?

 

[zoku88]

^ Get DDR2 instead of DDR3. You won't really notice the different in all likelihood.

 

[Jirotrom]

is 8 gigs of ram overkill, or will I be fine with 4?

 

[Epix]

is 8 gigs of ram overkill, or will I be fine with 4?

4 is plenty.

 

[VictimOfGrief]

is 8 gigs of ram overkill, or will I be fine with 4?

I'm happy with 4 but will be getting 8 here pretty soon. Also, if you plan on overclocking, more RAM makes it harder to control the timings on the memory.

 

[Jirotrom]

what version of windows...32bit, 64bit, should I get, purchasing it from school

also are there any tools I need to get for the build, pastes?

 

[VictimOfGrief]

what version of windows...32bit, 64bit, should I get, purchasing it from school

also are there any tools I need to get for the build, pastes?

No reason NOT to get 64bit as the driver support is all there plus you get to use all 4GB's of your memory.

Tools: Philips, flat head, Arctic Silver 5 for the CPU, Beer, Tunes and no one around to bug you.

 

[Epix]

what version of windows...32bit, 64bit, should I get, purchasing it from school

also are there any tools I need to get for the build, pastes?

Well, you're going to need 64bit if you want to use anymore than 3GB of RAM.

 

[Jirotrom]

Well, you're going to need 64bit if you want to use anymore than 3GB of RAM.

really? How is the 64 bit for gaming now...everything run ok,? I want to be able to play old games as well.

 

[Epix]

really? How is the 64 bit for gaming now...everything run ok,? I want to be able to play old games as well.

It should be fine. I'd double check the manufacture's website to determine 64 bit compatibility.

 

[Romance Pie]

No reason NOT to get 64bit as the driver support is all there plus you get to use all 4GB's of your memory.

Tools: Philips, flat head, Arctic Silver 5 for the CPU, Beer, Tunes and no one around to bug you.

Shouldn't have to worry about Thermal paste as the Freezer pro comes with MX-2 Thermal paste already installed. But the others things are a sweet combo

ohh maybe some cable ties to sort out your spaghetti

 

[Hazaro]

If you are using XP get 32 bit imo.

If using Vista go for 64 bit.

My opinion anyway. I'm sticking with 32 bit myself with 4GB because I don't like to troubleshoot software problems... Not my thing.

Putting together a rig for friend today or tomorrow, will post pics

 

[VaLiancY]

Antec Nine Hundred Black Case
ASUS P5E LGA 775 Intel X38
CORSAIR 4GB (2 x 2GB) 240-Pin DDR2 SDRAM DDR2 800
OCZ GameXStream OCZ700GXSSLI 700W ATX12V Power Supply
Intel Core 2 Duo E8500 Wolfdale
Seagate Barracuda 7200.11 ST3750330AS 750GB
ASUS Xonar D2X
LITE-ON 20X DVD±R DVD Burner

I'll bite after the first month of college. I gotta make sure all of my books are paid for before I go splurging on my second computer. Depending on the cash I have after I may go for a 4870 X2 if I got a surplus left and if I don't, a 4870 will do just fine. Anything I'm missing or any advice about future proofing?

 

[Epix]

If you are using XP get 32 bit imo.

If using Vista go for 64 bit.

My opinion anyway. I'm sticking with 32 bit myself with 4GB because I don't like to troubleshoot software problems... Not my thing.

Putting together a rig for friend today or tomorrow, will post pics

Just to give you a heads up: I moved from XP 32bit to Vista 64 bit about two months ago and I have yet to have any software problems.

 

[Hazaro]

Just to give you a heads up: I moved from XP 32bit to Vista 64 bit about two months ago and I have yet to have any software problems.

I said Vista 64 was ok, I'm not touching XP 64 bit though.

 

[Epix]

I said Vista 64 was ok, I'm not touching XP 64 bit though.

Ahh, ok.

 

[zoku88]

really? How is the 64 bit for gaming now...everything run ok,? I want to be able to play old games as well.

Unless you frequently play 16-bit games, it should all be fine.

 

[Cheeto]

really? How is the 64 bit for gaming now...everything run ok,? I want to be able to play old games as well.

I recently just switched from WinXP 32 to Vista 64...performance is basically the same, maybe a little bit better. TF2 loads significantly faster for me since I made the switch.

 

[bee]

I recently just switched from WinXP 32 to Vista 64...performance is basically the same, maybe a little bit better. TF2 loads significantly faster for me since I made the switch.

made that switch a while ago, 4gb really makes it fly, its faster than xp in most things for me and looks a lot nicer too. only ever had 2 issues with it and both were easy to overcome, the dvd drive disappearing bug where you just delete the filters in regedit and you cant right click on inf's to install them but again that's easy to get around

 

[Hazaro]

SuperCache is one of the reasons I will be switching to Vista eventually, along with DX 11:lol

 

[Jirotrom]

cool... thanks guys.

 

[Cheeto]

made that switch a while ago, 4gb really makes it fly, its faster than xp in most things for me and looks a lot nicer too. only ever had 2 issues with it and both were easy to overcome, the dvd drive disappearing bug where you just delete the filters in regedit and you cant right click on inf's to install them but again that's easy to get around

Yeah, I do have 4gb...I was referring to game performance when I said about the same, but general OS and 64bit applications do really fly.

 

[Open Source]

Antec Nine Hundred Black Case
ASUS P5E LGA 775 Intel X38
CORSAIR 4GB (2 x 2GB) 240-Pin DDR2 SDRAM DDR2 800
OCZ GameXStream OCZ700GXSSLI 700W ATX12V Power Supply
Intel Core 2 Duo E8500 Wolfdale
Seagate Barracuda 7200.11 ST3750330AS 750GB
ASUS Xonar D2X
LITE-ON 20X DVD±R DVD Burner

I'll bite after the first month of college. I gotta make sure all of my books are paid for before I go splurging on my second computer. Depending on the cash I have after I may go for a 4870 X2 if I got a surplus left and if I don't, a 4870 will do just fine. Anything I'm missing or any advice about future proofing?

Are you going to use Crossfire? If not, the P5Q is probably a better choice, and you can probably go a little cheaper on the power supply as well.

You will probably need extensions for the 2 4-pin CPU power plugs, since the power supply is on the bottom.

 

[Jirotrom]

ok... I've come across a problem. My university doesnt sell the 64bit version, that and I keep reading that Vista still has issues. I like XP well enough and I don't want to shell out the extra cash for Vista. The thing is... I want Directx 10. So... is anyone here on gaf running Directx10 for XP?

 

[Vormund]

You won't see DX10 in XP. FWIW, you could still get Vista 32-bit and use the key with a 64-bit version...just find someone who has it.

 

[zoku88]

There's also a $10 upgrade license, I believe, to go to 32-bit to 64-bit.

 

[Jirotrom]

There's also a $10 upgrade license, I believe, to go to 32-bit to 64-bit.

really?

 

[zoku88]

really?

I think so. You'd have to look around MS's site though.

This might be it? http://www.microsoft.com/windowsvista/1033/ordermedia/default.mspx

 

[VaLiancY]

Are you going to use Crossfire? If not, the P5Q is probably a better choice, and you can probably go a little cheaper on the power supply as well.

You will probably need extensions for the 2 4-pin CPU power plugs, since the power supply is on the bottom.

No Crossfire for I, sir. Any recommendations for the PSU?

 

[Jirotrom]

I think so. You'd have to look around MS's site though.

This might be it? http://www.microsoft.com/windowsvista/1033/ordermedia/default.mspx

thanks... i'll check it out tomorrow.

 

[DeadTrees]

There's also a $10 upgrade license, I believe, to go to 32-bit to 64-bit.

It's a shipping and handling charge for the 64-bit DVD--the retail version of Vista Ultimate is the only one that actually contains both the 32-bit and 64-bit DVDs.

 

[zoku88]

Supposedly, Intel is supposedly going to unveil its consumer SSDs next week at IDF. 240/170MB/s Read/write.

I remember that Intel was thinking about making SSDs more affordable. Hopefully these aren't priced crazily.

http://en.expreview.com/2008/08/13/intel-to-unveil-ssd-with-speed-up-to-240170mb/

 

[Kosma]

Sorry guys I'm not updating the OP atm, but Im backpacking in Asia. I will try to read up again when I hit China in September. Promise!

 

[Chris R]

Damn I'm kinda in a predicament right now. My laptop is getting really slow, and I doubt it will play the games coming up that I want to play at the detail levels I want. I have 3 ideas of what I can do...

a) Buy a new laptop (one coming out very shortly from gateway, P8400 cpu, 9800 GTS, 4gb ram, ect, not to bad) for $1450

b) Build a system from scratch. I have something basically priced out on newegg now that has basically everything I need minus a case and extra cooling for around $1150 shipped. Quad core, 4gb ram, 4870, decent mobo/psu/hdd/ect

c) Buy a "decent" desktop from a local retailer that includes things like a quad core cpu, 4gb+ ram, hdd and stuff and swap out the piss poor GPU for a better one. I can buy a nice desktop for under $1k and then buy a good gpu and stick it in for good gaming rig. Might even get a nice LCD to go along with it if I find a deal.


Just can't really decide what to do... I would prefer to build my own system, but after pricing everything out, option C seems to be the best, because it includes everything I need, minus a good gpu for cheaper than I can put together.

edit: redid a few things in my newegg basket, and dropped the price to around 1150 shipped now

 

[Open Source]

No Crossfire for I, sir. Any recommendations for the PSU?

Maybe the 600W GameXStream or the 600WStealthXStream. Both have big mail-in rebates at newegg right now.

 

[Open Source]

Damn I'm kinda in a predicament right now. My laptop is getting really slow, and I doubt it will play the games coming up that I want to play at the detail levels I want. I have 3 ideas of what I can do...

a) Buy a new laptop (one coming out very shortly from gateway, P8400 cpu, 9800 GTS, 4gb ram, ect, not to bad) for $1450

b) Build a system from scratch. I have something basically priced out on newegg now that has basically everything I need minus a case and extra cooling for around $1150 shipped. Quad core, 4gb ram, 4870, decent mobo/psu/hdd/ect

c) Buy a "decent" desktop from a local retailer that includes things like a quad core cpu, 4gb+ ram, hdd and stuff and swap out the piss poor GPU for a better one. I can buy a nice desktop for under $1k and then buy a good gpu and stick it in for good gaming rig. Might even get a nice LCD to go along with it if I find a deal.


Just can't really decide what to do... I would prefer to build my own system, but after pricing everything out, option C seems to be the best, because it includes everything I need, minus a good gpu for cheaper than I can put together.

edit: redid a few things in my newegg basket, and dropped the price to around 1150 shipped now

I generally dislike option c) because retailers cheap out on key components like the motherboard, the case, and the RAM, and the Windows installation is OEM and often doesn't even come with a disk. (Hint: you can buy a Vista Home Premium "upgrade" disk for under $100 and do a clean install with it. Having a Windows disk with a retail license is really helpful when it comes time to re-install or rebuild. Plus you can order the 64-bit version for $10 from MS if you have a retail license - can't do that with OEM Vista.)

On the other hand, if you just want a box that works and possibly a free printer and whatnot, retailers + slickdeals.net is almost always the way to go.

 

[ltse1]

CPU: Intel Core 2 Duo E8500 Wolfdale 3.16 GHz
GPU: Sapphire ATI 4850 512MB
Mobo: Asus P5K Deluxe/Wifi
Memory: Corsair 2 X 2 GB DDR2 SDRAM
Case: Rosewill Dual 120mm Fans
PSU: Rosewill 600W

Also, my budget is pretty flexible, so feel free to recommend something slightly more expensive if it's worth it.

So I haven't pulled the trigger yet because I thought that price drops were close by, but still none. Should I buy now (Spore is so close!), or are there any price cuts rumored?

 

[bee]

So I haven't pulled the trigger yet because I thought that price drops were close by, but still none. Should I buy now (Spore is so close!), or are there any price cuts rumored?

personally i would say e7200 + overclock completely destroys a e8500 for price vs performance and i have no idea if rosewill is a good make or not cos i don't think we have them in europe but i'd rather get this

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16811129024

 

[Ravager61]

ASUS P5Q Pro LGA 775 Intel P45 ATX Intel Motherboard
SAPPHIRE 100242L Radeon HD 4850 512MB
OCZ StealthXStream OCZ600SXS 600W ATX12V / EPS12V Power Supply
Intel Core 2 Duo E8500 Wolfdale 3.16GHz
G.SKILL 4GB (2 x 2GB) 240-Pin DDR2 SDRAM DDR2 800 (PC2 6400)
Western Digital Caviar SE16 WD6400AAKS 640GB 7200 RPM


Just bought this today off of newegg. Its the first new PC Ive gotten since 2004. Thoughts?

 

[Hazaro]

ASUS P5Q Pro LGA 775 Intel P45 ATX Intel Motherboard
SAPPHIRE 100242L Radeon HD 4850 512MB
OCZ StealthXStream OCZ600SXS 600W ATX12V / EPS12V Power Supply
Intel Core 2 Duo E8500 Wolfdale 3.16GHz
G.SKILL 4GB (2 x 2GB) 240-Pin DDR2 SDRAM DDR2 800 (PC2 6400)
Western Digital Caviar SE16 WD6400AAKS 640GB 7200 RPM


Just bought this today off of newegg. Its the first new PC Ive gotten since 2004. Thoughts?

Solid everything, I would pick another PSU personally, but it's all good.

 

[~Kinggi~]

Bought my computer a few days ago along with Stalker, Crysis, and the Witcher. Plan on getting a few others.

OC INTEL, Core™ 2 Quad Q9550 Quad-Core 2.83GHz, 1333MHz FSB, 12MB (2 x 6MB) L2 Cache, 45nm, 95W, EM64T EIST VT XD, Retail
ZALMAN, CNPS9700 Copper CPU Cooler, Socket LGA775/AMD754/939/940/AM2, Blue LED
ASUS, P5E3 Premium/WiFi-AP @n, LGA775, Intel X48, 1600MHz FSB, DDR3-2000 8GB /4, PCIe x16 CF /3, SATA 3Gb/s RAID 5 /6, HDA, GbLAN /2, FW /2, WiFi, ATX, Retail
CORSAIR, 4GB (2 x 2GB) XMS3 DHX PC3-10666 DDR3 1333MHz CL9 (9-9-9-24) 1.7V SDRAM DIMM, Non-ECC
DIAMOND, Radeon™ HD 4870 X2 750MHz, 2GB (2 x 1GB) GDDR5 1800MHz, PCIe x16 CrossFire, DVI /2, HDTV-Out, Retail
CREATIVE, Sound Blaster® X-Fi™ XtremeGamer, 7.1 channels, 24-bit 96KHz, PCI
WESTERN DIGITAL, 300GB WD VelociRaptor™, SATA 3 Gb/s, 10000 RPM, 16MB cache
WESTERN DIGITAL, 640GB WD Caviar® SE16 (WD6400AAKS), SATA 3 Gb/s, 7200-RPM, 16MB cache
LITE-ON, LH-20A1L Black/Beige 20x DVD±RW Dual-Layer Burner w/ LightScribe, SATA, Retail
PLEXTOR, PX-820SA Black 20x/12x DVD±R/RW Super-Multi Burner, SATA, Retail
ANTEC, Twelve Hundred Black Full Tower Case w/ Window, ATX, No PSU
CORSAIR, CMPSU-750TX TX Series Power Supply, 750W, 80 PLUS®, 24-pin ATX12V EPS12V, Multi-GPU Ready
MICROSOFT, Windows Vista Ultimate 64-bit Edition w/ SP1


and a bunch of other cool parts like fan controllers and such. Gonna be sweet.

 

[zoku88]

That looks expensive @_@

 

[SRG01]

Bought my computer a few days ago along with Stalker, Crysis, and the Witcher. Plan on getting a few others.

OC INTEL, Core&#8482; 2 Quad Q9550 Quad-Core 2.83GHz, 1333MHz FSB, 12MB (2 x 6MB) L2 Cache, 45nm, 95W, EM64T EIST VT XD, Retail
ZALMAN, CNPS9700 Copper CPU Cooler, Socket LGA775/AMD754/939/940/AM2, Blue LED
ASUS, P5E3 Premium/WiFi-AP @n, LGA775, Intel X48, 1600MHz FSB, DDR3-2000 8GB /4, PCIe x16 CF /3, SATA 3Gb/s RAID 5 /6, HDA, GbLAN /2, FW /2, WiFi, ATX, Retail
CORSAIR, 4GB (2 x 2GB) XMS3 DHX PC3-10666 DDR3 1333MHz CL9 (9-9-9-24) 1.7V SDRAM DIMM, Non-ECC
DIAMOND, Radeon&#8482; HD 4870 X2 750MHz, 2GB (2 x 1GB) GDDR5 1800MHz, PCIe x16 CrossFire, DVI /2, HDTV-Out, Retail
CREATIVE, Sound Blaster® X-Fi&#8482; XtremeGamer, 7.1 channels, 24-bit 96KHz, PCI
WESTERN DIGITAL, 300GB WD VelociRaptor&#8482;, SATA 3 Gb/s, 10000 RPM, 16MB cache
WESTERN DIGITAL, 640GB WD Caviar® SE16 (WD6400AAKS), SATA 3 Gb/s, 7200-RPM, 16MB cache
LITE-ON, LH-20A1L Black/Beige 20x DVD±RW Dual-Layer Burner w/ LightScribe, SATA, Retail
PLEXTOR, PX-820SA Black 20x/12x DVD±R/RW Super-Multi Burner, SATA, Retail
ANTEC, Twelve Hundred Black Full Tower Case w/ Window, ATX, No PSU
CORSAIR, CMPSU-750TX TX Series Power Supply, 750W, 80 PLUS®, 24-pin ATX12V EPS12V, Multi-GPU Ready
MICROSOFT, Windows Vista Ultimate 64-bit Edition w/ SP1


and a bunch of other cool parts like fan controllers and such. Gonna be sweet.

That's like a month's worth of salary (or two) right there!

 

[Chris R]

MSI P7N SLI Platinum LGA 775 NVIDIA nForce 750i SLI ATX Intel Motherboard
OCZ Platinum 4GB (2 x 2GB) 240-Pin DDR2 SDRAM DDR2 1066 (PC2 8500) Dual Channel
Seagate Barracuda 7200.11 ST3500320AS 500GB 7200 RPM SATA 3.0Gb/s Hard Drive
SAPPHIRE 100247L Radeon HD 4870 512MB 256-bit GDDR5 PCI Express 2.0 x16 HDCP Intel Core 2 Quad Q9550 Yorkfield 2.83GHz LGA 775 95W Quad-Core Processor Model Microsoft Windows Vista Home Premium SP1 64-bit English
CORSAIR CMPSU-750TX 750W ATX12V / EPS12V Power Supply

Forgot I removed a power supply, so thats why my cost was so low. After the rebates, the above plus other misc items would be 1250 shipped... Thinking it should be a decent build... Can slap in another 4gb of ram down the road if needed, and the same goes for the 4870. Suggestions? Only thing that has kept me from pulling the trigger now is that i7 is JUST around the corner