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Official 2008 "I Need A New PC" Thread

E

Epix

Member
Cheeto said:
So long as the filesytem is NTFS, he's okay. 99% chance it is.
Click to expand...
Sorry but a clean install is going to require an additional storage device to hold the files temporarily while the OS is being updated. The only way the files are going to make it on the drive through the OS upgrade is with an "upgrade-in-place" procedure that's (like I said) only available when moving to and from particular OS versions. If you're still confused here's the chart lifted directly from MS.

Installation options

You can upgrade in-place, which means you can install Windows Vista and retain your applications, files, and settings as they were in your previous edition of Windows.

Clean install

Upgrading to Windows Vista with a clean install means that you should use Windows Easy Transfer to automatically copy all your files and settings to an extra hard drive or other storage device, and then install Windows Vista. After the installation is complete, Windows Easy Transfer will reload your files and settings on your upgraded PC. You will then need to reinstall your applications.


321023-FireShotca.png
Click to expand...
 
C

Cheeto

Member
Epix said:
Sorry but a clean install is going to require an additional storage device to hold the files temporarily while the OS is being updated. The only way the files are going to make it on the drive through the OS upgrade is with an "upgrade-in-place" procedure that's (like I said) only available when moving to and from particular OS versions. If you're still confused here's the chart lifted directly from MS.
Click to expand...
Hmm, that's interesting. 4 days ago I went from XP Pro to Vista64 without it creating a windows.old temp.
 
E

Epix

Member
Cheeto said:
Hmm, that's interesting. 4 days ago I went from XP Pro to Vista64 without it creating a windows.old temp.
Click to expand...
That is interesting. Perhaps you've bent the Windows fundamental architecture to your will.
 
E

Ezza

Member
adas said:
Need some help picking a company. I'm trying to decide between HIS, Powercolor, and Sapphire and since all the 4870 x2's seem to be reference design I want to know which company has the best warranty, service, and reliability?
Click to expand...

Anyone? I'm going to pull the trigger soon and I don't want to choose based on who has the prettiest website.
 
H

Hazaro

relies on auto-aim
adas said:
Anyone? I'm going to pull the trigger soon and I don't want to choose based on who has the prettiest website.
Click to expand...

VictimOfGrief said:
sapphire.
Click to expand...

I hope you are joking.

Did you not see that big internet scandal? :lol

http://www.hardforum.com/showthread.php?t=1241346

I've personally had no experience with them since I buy eVGA, so who knows?

*On a side note, my launch 8800GT crapped out on me while playing TF2 last night, which I thought was pretty interesting since it's not graphically demanding at all.
Stupid nv4dll (or nv4disp) driver error...

GPU temps were 50C, CPU 50C, PCI-E at 16x, haven't touched drivers since 169.21
 
J

Jirotrom

Member
Xyphie said:
Do you plan on overclocking your system? If you don't you'll be fine with one of the boards around $100 or so.

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813130181

I'm using this one at the moment and I'm happy with it, it overclocks pretty well and it was cheap. Most of the boards around this price class are pretty much the same feature wise just manufactured by different vendors.

If you're into hardcore overclocking you might want to get one of the boards with higher quality components and better cooling though. I've heard a lot of good things about ASUS P5Q Pro/Deluxe.

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813131299
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813131297
Click to expand...
hmmm... i think i'll stick with the DFI and save some cash.
 
Z

zoku88

Member
Epix said:
That is interesting. Perhaps you've bent the Windows fundamental architecture to your will.
Click to expand...
I don't think you did a clean install. Clean installs wipe everything in the partition. Are you sure you didn't do an upgrade install?

EDIT: Oh, I didn't know what you guys were talking about. I partition everything, so I've never had to completely reformat a HDD
 
E

Epix

Member
zoku88 said:
I don't think you did a clean install. Clean installs wipe everything in the partition. Are you sure you didn't do an upgrade install?

EDIT: Oh, I didn't know what you guys were talking about. I partition everything, so I've never had to completely reformat a HDD
Click to expand...
I think you quoted the wrong guy. I was hoping my satire was obvious.
 
S

Shaheed79

dabbled in the jelly
Ok I'm seeing conflicting stories about 4850 and 8800GT drivers on newegg. Which one has the best driver support particularly if I'm running a Q6600?
 
M

MadOdorMachine

No additional functions
What's the verdict on Xeon CPU's? I've been thinking about building a new PC with them and I've heard they handle Crysis well. I'm not sure if there's any point to using two quad cores though.
 
V

VictimOfGrief

Banned
Shaheed79 said:
Ok I'm seeing conflicting stories about 4850 and 8800GT drivers on newegg. Which one has the best driver support particularly if I'm running a Q6600?
Click to expand...
Either.

most likely it's NV guys going to the 4850 without doing a clean driver sweep and causing problems.
 
J

Jirotrom

Member
before i finally pull the trigger, i just want to verify wit you folks that its an intelligent idea to upgrade now or wait a few weeks? Im still running a Socket 754 board and a 9800 XT and my pc is starting to ache:p
 
H

Hazaro

relies on auto-aim
Jirotrom said:
before i finally pull the trigger, i just want to verify wit you folks that its an intelligent idea to upgrade now or wait a few weeks? Im still running a Socket 754 board and a 9800 XT and my pc is starting to ache:p
Click to expand...

Yeap, new socket doesn't hold much imo and I doubt AMD has an ace up it's sleeve.
 
S

SRG01

Member
Buy now. Both chip vendors are excellent buys at the moment and you'll be paying through the nose for first-in-line Nehalem with marginal increases in speed.

If you were waiting to wait 9 months to a year (maybe until next year's back to school) with possible price decreases, yeah that's more feasible.

Hazaro said:
Yeap, new socket doesn't hold much imo and I doubt AMD has an ace up it's sleeve.
Click to expand...

Deneb is coming soon, but like Phenom, that has not translated into better low-end chips.
 
B

Blackface

Banned
SRG01 said:
Buy now. Both chip vendors are excellent buys at the moment and you'll be paying through the nose for first-in-line Nehalem with marginal increases in speed.

If you were waiting to wait 9 months to a year (maybe until next year's back to school) with possible price decreases, yeah that's more feasible.



Deneb is coming soon, but like Phenom, that has not translated into better low-end chips.
Click to expand...

Nehalem won't be worth it for gamers for at least a year after it comes out.

Nehalem in terms of what gamers use a CPU for, is just a Core 2 Duo with a memory controller built in.

You will see a very minimal increase in FPS using a Nehalem over a comparable say Intel 8400.

So if you want to dish out handfuls of Cash to go from 70FPS to 78FPS, have fun, but my eyes can't tell a difference.

I plan to upgrade Holiday 09.
 
C

Cheeto

Member
Trax416 said:
Nehalem won't be worth it for gamers for at least a year after it comes out.

Nehalem in terms of what gamers use a CPU for, is just a Core 2 Duo with a memory controller built in.

You will see a very minimal increase in FPS using a Nehalem over a comparable say Intel 8400.

So if you want to dish out handfuls of Cash to go from 70FPS to 78FPS, have fun, but my eyes can't tell a difference.

I plan to upgrade Holiday 09.
Click to expand...
Shush...I need an excuse to tell the misses to build a new rig next year.
 
Chiggs

Chiggs

Gold Member
Trax416 said:
Nehalem won't be worth it for gamers for at least a year after it comes out.
Click to expand...

Aren't they server chips, anyway? At least, the ones due out in Q4?

Edit: apparently not.

Intel revealed Monday that the first Core i7 chip to come off the line will be an "Extreme Edition" quad-core desktop processor codenamed Bloomfield, scheduled for production in the fourth quarter. That product is reportedly a 3.2GHz processor that will be priced at $999. Two more quad-core Bloomfield chips are reportedly set to follow the black-logoed Extreme device -- a 2.93GHz Core i7 believed to be priced at $562 and a 2.66GHz Core i7 that will sell for $284, both desktop processors.
Click to expand...

Well, actually...the 2.66ghz model doesn't seem to be too unreasonable.
 
Z

zoku88

Member
Chiggs said:
Aren't they server chips, anyway? At least, the ones due out in Q4?
Click to expand...
No, not really...

EDIT: I'm wondering how I quoted you before your stealth edit. Maybe its cuz I had to wait 20s cuz I posted something somewhere else...
Trax416 said:
Nehalem won't be worth it for gamers for at least a year after it comes out.

Nehalem in terms of what gamers use a CPU for, is just a Core 2 Duo with a memory controller built in.

You will see a very minimal increase in FPS using a Nehalem over a comparable say Intel 8400.

So if you want to dish out handfuls of Cash to go from 70FPS to 78FPS, have fun, but my eyes can't tell a difference.

I plan to upgrade Holiday 09.
Click to expand...
Depends on the game. Some games (namely, strategy games or AI intensive games) see the benefit of increase CPU. Since Nehalem is 20-30% faster clock per clock...
 
S

SRG01

Member
zoku88 said:
No, not really...

EDIT: I'm wondering how I quoted you before your stealth edit. Maybe its cuz I had to wait 20s cuz I posted something somewhere else...

Depends on the game. Some games (namely, strategy games or AI intensive games) see the benefit of increase CPU. Since Nehalem is 20-30% faster clock per clock...
Click to expand...

Even so, the CPU is rarely the bottleneck in most games.
 
R

Romance Pie

Member
You could play the constant waiting game for the next chip so come out, but then what are you going to do till then?

Nehalem sounds great but it will cost more, plus there will be some teething time before there will be good motherboards to go with them.

Old:
AMD 3000+ (754)
1 Gig DDR 400
6800 (AGP and not GT)
(crappy steel case thingy)

New:
Core 2 8500 (the night I laid down the hammer it went down $150 here:) )
2X 2 Gig DDR2 800 CL4 Corsair
4870 (Sapphire, but the Asus was $100 more and I had no problems last time with Sapphire here)
Lian-Li 16A Alumminum case
Enermax Modu 82+ 625W
4X Noctua 800 rpm fans
Arctic cooling freezer Pro 7

I've got a copy of Bioshock I bought last year and held onto since I could never play it.
the build begins this weekend!
 
Z

zoku88

Member
SRG01 said:
Even so, the CPU is rarely the bottleneck in most games.
Click to expand...
I agree with that. But some games really DO grind the CPU.

Like, load up Civ in windowed mode and see how much CPU it takes at certain times. It's not multi-threaded, so it usually takes up all it can on a single core. I wonder how long they would take if it could use all of the cores available to it. Nevertheless, AI is a complex thing, especially when there are so many possible moves. In the later games, turns can take such a long time...

EDIT: In the case, I'm obviously not talking about fps. Just speed of the game in general. It kinda just depends on the games you play. The only fps I really play is TF2, which just doesn't take much to run out all. Besides that, it's all strategy games.
 
S

SRG01

Member
zoku88 said:
I agree with that. But some games really DO grind the CPU.

Like, load up Civ in windowed mode and see how much CPU it takes at certain times. It's not multi-threaded, so it usually takes up all it can on a single core. I wonder how long they would take if it could use all of the cores available to it. Nevertheless, AI is a complex thing, especially when there are so many possible moves. In the later games, turns can take such a long time...

EDIT: In the case, I'm obviously not talking about fps. Just speed of the game in general.
Click to expand...

Civ4 brings down nearly every system to its knees mid-to-late game with a decently sized map. :(
 
J

Jirotrom

Member
Antec Nine Hundred Black Steel ATX Mid Tower Computer Case


DFI LANPARTY DK P35-T2RS LGA 775 Intel P35 ATX Intel Motherboard
Item #: N82E16813136043

VisionTek 900244 Radeon HD 4870 512MB 256-bit GDDR5 PCI Express 2.0 x16 HDCP Ready CrossFire Supported Video Card


CORSAIR CMPSU-750TX 750W ATX12V / EPS12V Power Supply


Intel Core 2 Duo E8400 Wolfdale 3.0GHz LGA 775 65W Dual-Core Processor Model BX80570E8400

mushkin 4GB (2 x 2GB) 240-Pin DDR2 SDRAM DDR2 800 (PC2 6400) Dual Channel Kit Desktop Memory Model 996580


SUPER TALENT 8GB Flash Drive (USB2.0 Portable) Model USB8GB/120X-DH-S
Item #: N82E16820609005


acomdata PureDrive PDHD750USE-72 750GB 7200 RPM External Hard Drive
Item #: N82E16822216040


ARCTIC COOLING Freezer 7 Pro 92mm CPU Cooler
Item #: N82E16835186134

this is everything im buying...:D :D
 
R

Romance Pie

Member
Jirotrom said:
Antec Nine Hundred Black Steel ATX Mid Tower Computer Case


DFI LANPARTY DK P35-T2RS LGA 775 Intel P35 ATX Intel Motherboard
Item #: N82E16813136043

VisionTek 900244 Radeon HD 4870 512MB 256-bit GDDR5 PCI Express 2.0 x16 HDCP Ready CrossFire Supported Video Card


CORSAIR CMPSU-750TX 750W ATX12V / EPS12V Power Supply


Intel Core 2 Duo E8400 Wolfdale 3.0GHz LGA 775 65W Dual-Core Processor Model BX80570E8400

mushkin 4GB (2 x 2GB) 240-Pin DDR2 SDRAM DDR2 800 (PC2 6400) Dual Channel Kit Desktop Memory Model 996580


SUPER TALENT 8GB Flash Drive (USB2.0 Portable) Model USB8GB/120X-DH-S
Item #: N82E16820609005


acomdata PureDrive PDHD750USE-72 750GB 7200 RPM External Hard Drive
Item #: N82E16822216040


ARCTIC COOLING Freezer 7 Pro 92mm CPU Cooler
Item #: N82E16835186134

this is everything im buying...:D :D
Click to expand...

From what your going from and moving to, your pretty much in the same boat as I :D
feck PC gaming is rad
 
J

Jirotrom

Member
Romance Pie said:
From what your going from and moving to, your pretty much in the same boat as I :D
feck PC gaming is rad
Click to expand...
yea... I have a socket 754 AMD 3200, ATI 9800 XT. This baby has been running for years and its finally showing its age, time for the upgrade especially since i dont have to pay for 12 months.
 
V

VictimOfGrief

Banned
Trax416 said:
Nehalem won't be worth it for gamers for at least a year after it comes out.

Nehalem in terms of what gamers use a CPU for, is just a Core 2 Duo with a memory controller built in.

You will see a very minimal increase in FPS using a Nehalem over a comparable say Intel 8400.

So if you want to dish out handfuls of Cash to go from 70FPS to 78FPS, have fun, but my eyes can't tell a difference.

I plan to upgrade Holiday 09.
Click to expand...

"It depends...."

As I love to say with all things in the IT/Tech industry.

Nehalem is going to be a slow growing adoption rate due to Intel forcing the i7's to use DDR3 due to the Tri-channel DDR. Also in terms of what the proc will do with the upcoming Larrabee cards will be interesting.

I'd much rather take a X48 motherboard with high end DDR2, couple of PCI-E 2.0's w/ SLI/Cross-Fire and a Q9xxx or E8xxx series proc for the next 12 months and wait for the kinks to get worked out of the new Bloomfield line.

The tipping point will be when DDR3 hits near DDR2 levels which won't be for 12-18 months.
 
R

Romance Pie

Member
Jirotrom said:
yea... I have a socket 754 AMD 3200, ATI 9800 XT. This baby has been running for years and its finally showing its age, time for the upgrade especially since i dont have to pay for 12 months.
Click to expand...

Should do a comparison between the two. Bench your current pc with some games and then do the same once your new one is together and see how huge the difference will be.

So how many people do we have here upgrading now?
 
B

Blackface

Banned
VictimOfGrief said:
"It depends...."

As I love to say with all things in the IT/Tech industry.

Nehalem is going to be a slow growing adoption rate due to Intel forcing the i7's to use DDR3 due to the Tri-channel DDR. Also in terms of what the proc will do with the upcoming Larrabee cards will be interesting.

I'd much rather take a X48 motherboard with high end DDR2, couple of PCI-E 2.0's w/ SLI/Cross-Fire and a Q9xxx or E8xxx series proc for the next 12 months and wait for the kinks to get worked out of the new Bloomfield line.

The tipping point will be when DDR3 hits near DDR2 levels which won't be for 12-18 months.
Click to expand...

I7 is obviously better then the current Core2's for everything, including gaming. However with gaming, it gives the least boost in performance. In fact, it's not going to be anything gigantic at all, at least for the first versions. It will increase your FPS, but at a huge premium of being an early adopter.

If you can buy a system that can run every game you want, and can play for the next couple of years, for $800, then waiting for Nehalem and paying $1800 isn't worth it.

After about a year, when new consumer models come out, and the motherboard bugs are fixed, that is when upgrading will be smart.

Like someone on Hard forum said when asked about what you should upgrade first with the new CPU's coming out if you like gaming.

"
1. GPU
2. GPU
3. GPU
4. GPU
5. Motherboard
6. RAM
.
.
.
.
.48. Nehalem.
"
 
Z

zoku88

Member
Trax416 said:
I7 is obviously better then the current Core2's for everything, including gaming. However with gaming, it gives the least boost in performance. In fact, it's not going to be anything gigantic at all, at least for the first versions. It will increase your FPS, but at a huge premium of being an early adopter.
Click to expand...
But thats generalizing. There are games that are more CPU intensive than GPU intensive.

Like I said, it all depends on the games you play.
 
B

Blackface

Banned
zoku88 said:
But thats generalizing. There are games that are more CPU intensive than GPU intensive.

Like I said, it all depends on the games you play.
Click to expand...

Correct, and the way games utilize a CPU, the I7's are essentially Core2's with built in Memory controllers.

Anyway.

Ncix just had a surprise sale. They had the XFX 8800GT XXX 256mb up for ...get this $59.99
 
Z

zoku88

Member
Trax416 said:
Correct, and the way games utilize a CPU, the I7's are essentially Core2's with built in Memory controllers.
Click to expand...
...

Are you even listening to the arguments?

That's like saying Core2's are Pentiums...
 
B

Blackface

Banned
zoku88 said:
...

Are you even listening to the arguments?

That's like saying Core2's are Pentiums...
Click to expand...

I am talking performance for gaming, not architecture. The only performance increase you gain for Games, and the way they utilize CPU's, is the extra speed from the built in memory controller, among other slight advances.

You are not gaining 20%+ performance increase in gaming, like you do for other applications and tasks.

You add that to the fact that the GPU is what matters most, by far the most for gaming, and it's just not worth upgrading right away.
 
Z

zoku88

Member
Trax416 said:
I am talking performance for gaming, not architecture. The only performance increase you gain for Games, and the way they utilize CPU's, is the extra speed from the built in memory controller, among other slight advances.

You are not gaining 20%+ performance increase in gaming, like you do for other applications and tasks.
Click to expand...
I think you're confused. The architecture itself is actually better. Even if the memory controller weren't integrated, Nehalem would still be faster clock for clock...

I think you fail to understand that some games that are actually CPU intensive. If you've ever played Supreme Commander online, you'd notice that some games mention a minimum CPU model...
 
S

SRG01

Member
zoku88 said:
I think you're confused. The architecture itself is actually better. Even if the memory controller weren't integrated, Nehalem would still be faster clock for clock...
Click to expand...

Zoku is right. The instructions actually execute faster due to the architectural improvements. Down to the silicon. However, the caveat is whether or not these gained cycles are wasted with the way a particular piece of software is written.

* I don't know why I -- and others -- keep saying down to the metal. A chip's made of silicon, not metal! :lol
 
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