Dash Kappei
Not actually that important
What's the consensus about the "upgraded" MM1/3 collection for the Sega Magadrive/Genesis?
Official bitching about Hudson abandoning VC support. [VC/WiiWare = lost cause]
- Thread starter Kobun Heat
- Start date
brain_stew
Member
Please, please, please can Sonic (MS) go up tonight? I don't understand what's been holding it up, been quite looking forward to giving one of the 8 bit Sonic's a go without the horrible reduced resolution of the GG versions. Why Sega added them versions to their Sonic collections, I'll never know. I prefer seeing more than two pixels in front of me.
The Hermit
Member
Kilrogg said:I wanted Mega Man 9.
that´s wiiware
Nuclear Muffin
Banned
Capndrake said:
No Secret of Mana
Iam Canadian
and have the worst user name EVER
Ranger X said:
I mix it up every time. But here's my personal favourite order.
Metal Man (easy E-tanks and the most broken Master Weapon in the game.)
Flash Man
Quick Man (Time Stopper away half of his health and finish him off with the Buster.)
Wood Man (Metal Blade handles him easily.)
Air Man
Crash Man
Bubble Man
Heat Man (use Item-2 if you must, but it's much more fun to do it the hard way.)
Flash Man
Quick Man (Time Stopper away half of his health and finish him off with the Buster.)
Wood Man (Metal Blade handles him easily.)
Air Man
Crash Man
Bubble Man
Heat Man (use Item-2 if you must, but it's much more fun to do it the hard way.)
brain_stew
Member
By God is the PAL conversion of Sonic (MS) bad. Not only do you have your usual horrible black PAL borders but some genius coder decided to add some huge blue ones to the outside as well, meaning you lose half of your screen, the usual 50hz crap is there as usual as well making it a good candidate for worst ever conversion.
I really like to buy great classic games on the VC, and resist emulating them instead because I quite like the experience but this time I thought screw it. I payed good money (to add to the several thousand pounds I've payed Sega over the years) I'm at least going to enjoy this game so I decided to run an emulated version on my PC instead, which runs in beautiful full screen, full speed pixelly goodness controlled by the heavenly Saturn USB pad.
I've never actually played the game before despite being a huge Sonic whore and it really is a good 8 bit alternative to regular Sonic, I'm noticing some particularly clever uses of the momentum based physics early on.
I really like to buy great classic games on the VC, and resist emulating them instead because I quite like the experience but this time I thought screw it. I payed good money (to add to the several thousand pounds I've payed Sega over the years) I'm at least going to enjoy this game so I decided to run an emulated version on my PC instead, which runs in beautiful full screen, full speed pixelly goodness controlled by the heavenly Saturn USB pad.
I've never actually played the game before despite being a huge Sonic whore and it really is a good 8 bit alternative to regular Sonic, I'm noticing some particularly clever uses of the momentum based physics early on.
Sixfortyfive
He who pursues two rabbits gets two rabbits.
Most people seem to hate them, but I thought they were generally pretty good.Dash Kappei said:
The only significant problem I had with it was that there was more slowdown in the Genesis versions. Instead of making sprites flicker when there's too much stuff onscreen to render properly, the Gen version simply slows down erratically. This makes some boss fights (I'm thinking of Ice Man in particular) unbelievably more frustrating. All of the other complaints I have about the game are minor stuff.
The graphic retouches are generally good. MM1 benefits the most in that regard (the backgrounds in the NES version vary from sparse to nonexistent, whereas they're usually pretty nice in the Gen versions). Mega Man's sprite looks great, but since Proto Man wasn't redrawn, it's kind of an odd clash in style when they share the screen.
Some of the bosses have had their health readjusted. I remember that Cut Man now takes twice as many shots to be killed with the standard buster. And since the three games are all based on the original Japanese versions, MM2 only has the "Difficult" setting. (Normal was added in for the US NES release.) I tend to view this as a plus, though.
The mechanics of the Wily Tower, where you get to mix and match 8 weapons of your choosing from all three games and use them in a handful of original levels, is pretty damn neat. I thought the level and boss design for this part of the game was a bit lacking though.
GremlinInTheMachine said:
My argument is over not seeing more games PERIOD. I'd love to see Bugs Bunny Crazy Castle show up as the third (or fourth) game one week. Know why? Because then that would be one less filler game out of the way. The longer titles most people don't care about sit unreleased, the longer they're possible as being the one VC game some week.
Iam Canadian
and have the worst user name EVER
I missed this post earlier.
In general, I'm not a fan of the Wily Wars remakes of the first three games. My main issue is the fact that the games are riddled with slowdown, far more slowdown than there was in the original NES titles. It seriously doesn't take more than two or three enemies on-screen for the game to start struggling and in the more intense fights, such as those with the Yellow Devil, the game starts running slow as molasses. It's embarassing, really.
But those aren't my only issues with the game. The graphics and music "enhancements" don't really look better than the NES, in my opinion, you can't do Normal mode in Mega Man 2, and the weapon damage balances are messed up; for example, Cut Man doesn't take as much damage from the Buster in Wily Wars as he does in the original. Just...stick to the originals, in my opinion. If the slowdown wasn't there, Wily Wars might almost be worthwhile. But the slowdown just kills the entire thing.
That being said...the bonus mini-game you unlock for beating the three remakes, Wily Tower, is fantastic even in spite of the slowdown and is worth a look. It's a unique entry in the Mega Man franchise and shouldn't be missed.
Dash Kappei said:
In general, I'm not a fan of the Wily Wars remakes of the first three games. My main issue is the fact that the games are riddled with slowdown, far more slowdown than there was in the original NES titles. It seriously doesn't take more than two or three enemies on-screen for the game to start struggling and in the more intense fights, such as those with the Yellow Devil, the game starts running slow as molasses. It's embarassing, really.
But those aren't my only issues with the game. The graphics and music "enhancements" don't really look better than the NES, in my opinion, you can't do Normal mode in Mega Man 2, and the weapon damage balances are messed up; for example, Cut Man doesn't take as much damage from the Buster in Wily Wars as he does in the original. Just...stick to the originals, in my opinion. If the slowdown wasn't there, Wily Wars might almost be worthwhile. But the slowdown just kills the entire thing.
That being said...the bonus mini-game you unlock for beating the three remakes, Wily Tower, is fantastic even in spite of the slowdown and is worth a look. It's a unique entry in the Mega Man franchise and shouldn't be missed.
EmCeeGramr
Member
Ranger X said:
I usually go for flash stopper first. Its good for difficult levels. Then proceed to get the leaf shield. Its up to my whim from there. As you can see Im more concerned with gaining certain abilities that help with level progression. Crash man always comes after air man though. Him and quickman are so hard to predict and evade.
And has anyone ever found a way to make airman's tornados come out in an avoidable pattern. I know how to dodge except when the tornados are cramped together, which makes me think that if I was a game designer the enemy should be making the tornado pattern in response to my actions.
Sixfortyfive
He who pursues two rabbits gets two rabbits.
Crash Man is one of the easiest bosses in the game. He's one of the first ones I always pick.EmCeeGramr said:
Walk in front of him and let him follow you. When you're about to run into the wall, jump, turn around, and shoot towards him while you're in mid-air. Whenever you shoot at him, he counterattacks by jumping in the air and throwing a crash bomb at the floor below you, so if you're already in the air and shooting back at him, he'll jump into your shot, you'll jump over his, and you should be able to walk under him before he lands. Repeat as needed.
FFantasyFX
Member
shidoshi said:
Hey - wait a minute - Isn't Bugs Bunny Crazy Castle the puzzle game with Looney Tunes characters? I remember vaguely enjoying the game when I was a kid, although I think I played the GameBoy version. Since when did the game become a slur word? I wouldn't mind it showing up as a third (or second, or fourth, or fifth, or first) game as well. I remember people defending Spelunker or admitting guilty pleasure playing King's Knight. I agree with Shidoshi's point: One person's trash is another man's treasure - the more variety the better.
Yeah, although it more resembles a platformer where you can't jump, and instead must figure out how to get by and around the enemies. There was one for the NES, 4 for the GB/GBC, and one for the GBA. It's a fun little series. I wouldn't mind seeing the NES installment on the VC, even though it'll likely never be released.
Conrad Link
Member
Capndrake said:
Still, why has it taken so long damn it! Gimme now!
Princess Skittles
Prince's's 'Skittle's
HOLY YES!
Oh wait, it's the shitty Master System version. Sigh. BOO!
Oh well, I'll always have my Monster World Collection!
Iam Canadian
and have the worst user name EVER
EmCeeGramr said:
I'm pretty sure Air Man's tornadoes are always avoidable, though some formations are trickier than others, of course. In general, though, since the Air Shooter doesn't inflict much damage on Mega Man, I tend to brute force my way through Air Man, since it's easier.
Or you could always just stand behind him.
Fun fact: in the Wily Wars, Air Man's tornado patterns were changed to make them much easier to avoid than in the NES version.
A Black Falcon
Member
Princess Skittles said:
Wonder Boy in Monster World effectively is already up, though, as The Dynastic Hero... it's the same game.
Wonder Boy in Monster Land (SMS) there is the only Wonder Boy game except for Monster World IV (which, of course, never came out outside of Japan) which hasn't had at least one of its versions released here yet. It's a pretty good pick for the next SMS game really.
As for Space Harrier... the key question is, which version? Some of them are good, others pretty bad...
There is one specific tornado pattern that has two tornadoes at eye level that is just about impossible to dodge unless there's sliding (which there isn't). And standing behind Airman doesn't do anything other than push you to the other wall and take damage anyway.Iam Canadian said:
Good thing the peashooter does at least two points of damage a hit.
Iam Canadian
and have the worst user name EVER
lyre said:
Good way to easily hit him with Leaf Shield, anyway.
That is, if you're a beginner who actually uses the weakness Master Weapons on the Robot Masters.
Princess Skittles
Prince's's 'Skittle's
Both Monster World AND Dynastic Hero are up there, actually.A Black Falcon said:
What I'm talking about is that the SMS version of Monster Land is garbage compared to the brilliant, super awesome arcade version.
Of course, the PC-Engine had an ALMOST arcade perfect translation of Monster Land, which was called Bikkuriman World, but they stuck some anime license onto it, which is probably what kept it from coming out in the US.
Now challenge me on Wonder Boy/Monster World/Westone again. I dare you. *wink*
Dash Kappei
Not actually that important
Sixfortyfive said:
Thanks man, and to IamCanadian too of course.
Also cheers to brain_stew for the heads up on the Sonic SMS's PAL fuckup, I wanted to buy the game, hoping they were going to put up a somehow improved PAL rom similar to some of Nintendo's PAL offereings on the service but screw it, I should know better of Sega... and I've already regretted it enough for GunstarH and Beyond Oasis horrendous PAL conversions :-/
Sixfortyfive
He who pursues two rabbits gets two rabbits.
None of them are very good. Most of my Shenmue arcade experience was spent on Hang-On.A Black Falcon said:
If you want a behind-the-back auto-scrolling rail shooter, Sin & Punishment is what you should be looking for.
nincompoop
Banned
The biggest difference is how painfully slow Mega Man's buster shot is in comparison to the NES games. I have no idea how the other people responding to you didn't mention this yet, it's the first thing you'll notice. Enemy bullets travel at about the same speed as the NES games, so the difficulty became extremely unbalanced.Dash Kappei said:
I liked the overhauled graphics, they were pretty impressive for the Genesis yet they remained faithful to the style of the original games (think Mario Allstars). The music on the other hand was a crime against humanity.
A Black Falcon
Member
Princess Skittles said:
Oh, yeah, okay... I'd forgotten about the arcade version of Monster Land. I know the Monster World/Westone history pretty well too, but I was just thinking about the console versions, not arcade ones...
I agree it would be nice if we could get arcade games on the VC too, but it'd be a lot of work, I'm sure, compared to console emulation...
As for Bikkuriman, the main issue there isn't the anime license (that's one issue for sure, but the even bigger one) so much as it is that it was released in Japan only, and the Wonder Boy series is one where you really, really don't want to have to play it without being able to read the text... you would get so lost, so fast... this is the same reason why we will sadly never see the great Monster World IV, unless they start translating games, which seems quite unlikely (the special case of Sin & Punishment excepted).
As for Monster World on VC, I'd just forgotten about it.
Dash Kappei said:
Most copies of Mega Man: The Wily Wars/Rockman in Megaworld have EEPROM saving instead of saving to 17-year-old batteries, so it's awesome...
But yeah, there were some conversion issues. They're still great games, but the originals are a bit better.
Sixfortyfive said:
Hey, Space Harrier is a great game! The original arcade game, and its perfect or near-perfect ports on the 32X, Saturn, and Dreamcast (Shenmue arcade), are great, great games... it's the other early ports that are bad.
And yes, Space Harrier for the 32X version is fantastic, nearly arcade-perfect. Same for After Burner -- truly outstanding on the 32X. But yes, every version of both serieses BEFORE the 32X ports were pretty awful... I have Space Harrier II for Genesis, it's absolutely terrible. This listing has no number though, so it's probably either the SMS or TG-16 versions of the original Space Harrier, since the hopes for those great 32X versions are dashed by the fact that there isn't any 32X support on the VC yet. It's probably not the Japan-only NES version, at least... but SMS or TG-16, it's not good.
After Burner III was okay on Sega CD, thanks to the scaling and rotation chips, but even that version wasn't quite right... the 32X version was better, no question. And all versions on systems without scaling and rotation chips just did not work.
Sixfortyfive
He who pursues two rabbits gets two rabbits.
That's not how I remember it. IIRC, the projectiles of Mega Man's buster travel at the same speed; you just can't fire it in succession as quickly as you could on the NES. So, if you're jamming on the shot button as fast as possible, there will still be a little bit of a delay between your shots. This never really mattered much, IMO, because most bosses have some invincibility frames after they get hit, so hitting them with 2 or 3 shots at a time usually doesn't result in more damage anyway.nincompoop said:
I might be mistaken though. It's been a little while since I've played either versions.
brain_stew
Member
Dash Kappei said:
I forgot to add, the sound is slower as well. Honestly its the worst PAL conversion I've seen which is a shame because the game really is great, the developers didn't try to replicate 16 bit Sonic they created the best Sonic that the Master System could achieve. I'm really enjoying it on my PC with the lovely Saturn pad, after paying good money, I think the least I deserve is to be able to play and enjoy the game. So, all US GAFers, buy this game, a top notch Sonic title for 500 points is a bargain well as long as you don't have a PAL console.
With regards to Space Harrier, uhm wasn't the Mega Drive version Space Harrier 2? So I guess that means its going to be the ridiculously downgraded (even compared to the severely downgraded Mega Drive SH) Master System version. Honestly, an 8 bit version of a "cutting edge" late 80s arcade game has no place in 2008.
I'm pleased to see Wonderboy: In Monster Land set to go up, been getting into the series on Gametap which has quite a few entries but not this one and its a really cool series. May have to dip in at 500 points.
A Black Falcon
Member
brain_stew said:
As I said, since it's almost certainly not the very good 32X version, I'm hoping it's the TG-16 version... that one wasn't bad, better than Space Harrier II on Genesis, I think...
Space Harrier TG16: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tE6HoJKEs4c
Space Harrier II Genesis: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DuqYlXL54SQ
I hadn't realized it was that good on Turbografx... impressive, really, considering. I've never felt that Space Harrier II on Genesis was quite right... not sure what it was, the smoothness or graphics or what, I just didn't think it worked well. Neither of these versions, much less the lesser SMS, NES, various old computer versions, etc, are anywhere near as good as the 32X, Saturn, or Dreamcast ports of course, but of the older ports, the TG16 one may actually be the best one... if any of them are good at all.
Indeed, it is nice to have.
I know I'm late but...Ranger X said:
Metal Man -> Bubble Man -> Heat Man -> Wood Man -> Air Man -> Crash Man -> Flash Man -> Quick Man
I finished the game 5 times in one sit, with the 5th being my first run ever without losing a single life (Normal). I'll try doing it again if I managed to purchase a capture card. Man it was rad, when I finished off
the Alien
I've been wanting to do it since a very long time ago.
I was trying to master every stage with a "no-hit run" so that's why the 12 hours. Still crazy but I'm happy with it lol. (for those who are curious, the 2h-or-so was in MM1).
I now have 1900 points, will keep 1000 for MM9 so I would like a solid recommendation for a game that isn't above 900. I have the following games: Ristar, Shining Force, SMB, SMB2 LL, SMB3, SMW, Super Metroid, DKC2, Pokemon Snap, Link to the Past, Super Mario RPG, Lost Winds.
brain_stew
Member
A Black Falcon said:
Yer, I knew there was a TurboGraphx version, but honestly, I just think there's a very small chance it'll be that version. Sega may even have to pay a fee for emulating the TG16 hardware (I'm not sure) and its not like they're scared of downgraded ports, we got Virtua Fighter 2 Genesis afterall. More than likely they simply want it on a Sega console, if only for the better visibility.
Echoes, since you're in the US, I'd whole wholeheartedly recommend Sonic (SMS) to you. Its really good to see a different interpretation of Sonic 1 and well worth the 500 point cost for something you've probably never considered before.
jaundicejuice
Member
One VC game? It's cool that Mega Man 2 is finally up but one game? Really? I guess I shouldn't be shocked or upset, it's just par for the course for well over a year now. It used to be that I checked this thread every week on Monday and that, more likely than not, I would fire up my Wii and buy something when there was no retail release I was currently playing. VC filled in the void between retail releases. Now my Wii simply goes unused for weeks at a time, but hey, that's been par for the course with the last couple of console generations now.
Whatever, Wario Land and Little King Story come out later this year.
Whatever, Wario Land and Little King Story come out later this year.
DoReMi Fantasy is:Echoes said:
-My favorite VC game that isn't on your list (Super Metroid, LttP, DKC2)
-A platformer, which you must love since you've bought loads of them
-A really excellent platformer
-Exactly 900 points
There you have it!
Mini-review recommendation from me
Full review from VC-Reviews
Video of the first couple levels from Medelus (really basic ones in the beginning, but they get more complex later)
A Black Falcon
Member
brain_stew said:
I know, you're probably right, sadly... I mostly hope not due to how the TG16 one is actually kind of good, while the SMS and Genesis ones are awful.
Oh, the TG16 version was published by NEC Avenue. I'm not sure if NEC or Sega actually developed it, though... but since Hudson seems to have the rights to everything first-party, including NEC and Hudson stuff, it'd likely require some kind of agreement between Hudson and Sega I'd expect, yes. Which would put the SMS version as being more likely, in all its mediocrity and awful framerate.
But if that agreement did happen, maybe we could even see a release of this, canned because Sega wouldn't agree to let NEC release it?
(evidently NEC had made it without permission, for some odd reason, and then failed to get rights... late in development it seems, because a complete or mostly complete iso leaked some time ago.)Space Fantasy Zone (NEC, Turbo CD)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xn7LGlchtKA
Even more unlikely I know, but it's worth hoping, even if it does have imperfect scaling as usual for systems without scaling and rotation chips.
Echoes said:
Pretty good game. It's not 16-bit Sonic, but it's definitely fun... it's a solid 8-bit adaptation of the Sonic formula. Nice graphics for the system, too.
brain_stew
Member
Echoes said:
It was made by a totally different developer and released shortly after the Mega Drive original. Instead of downgrading the Genesis version, its instead a whole new game but keeps the great momentum based physics and some of the zones. All the levels are totally different even if they're the same zone and there's some really solid platforming in it. Its a title that many will have missed but is a decent romp for any Sonic fan.
Here's a nice review:
http://www.vc-reviews.com/games/mastersystem/sonic_the_hedgehog
Its only 500 points and for that its worth checking out (well so long as you don't have a PAL Wii) if you love platformers.
A Black Falcon said:
Wow, I never knew of that game's existance, it'd be really great for stuff like that o pop up on the VC, the import releases at least gives me some amount of hope. Hey, there's always the fact that Sega and Hudson will throw up nigh on anything on the VC, with over 100 titles between them so you never know.
Edit: DoReMi Fantasy does look like a good choice, I've got it high on my list of games to pick up when I get my next bunch of points cards.
nincompoop
Banned
Maybe they move at the same # of pixels/frame, but since the Genesis had 25% more horizontal resolution it took the bullets that much longer to leave the screen? Either way, it makes a huge difference when fighting regular enemies. You're right that it didn't affect boss fights much, but I seem to remember the bosses being much tougher anyways, I think all bosses only took one damage from the buster in Wily Wars but many of them took 2 damage per shot in the NES games.Sixfortyfive said:
Wow, I never knew about this version even though I consider Sonic 1 my favorite among the other entries in the series. Definitely gonna buy.
I'll be going to the bank now to deposit some cash for another 1000 points. (edit: GET)
Thanks a lot guys.
AND gonna buy this, never heard of it and since I'm a sucker for platformers I must support the genre I loveJiggy37 said:
I'll be going to the bank now to deposit some cash for another 1000 points. (edit: GET)Thanks a lot guys.
Sixfortyfive
He who pursues two rabbits gets two rabbits.
Like I said, MM2's difficulty in WW is equivalent to the "Difficult" (original) setting on MM2 NES. Most of the other robot masters have the same weakness settings. The only one I remember that was changed was Cut Man, who is pretty easy no matter how much health he has.nincompoop said:
I think my favorite thing about WW is that the Metal Blade also demolishes most of the enemies from MM1 and MM3 as well. Most broken weapon of all ever.