Official bitching about Hudson abandoning VC support. [VC/WiiWare = lost cause]

MoxManiac said:
NO

HIGGINS >>>>>>>>> TOM-TOM

HIGGINS IS YOUR GOD

lsslave said:
I <3 Master Higgins :)
nostalgia can be the ugliest drug of all sometimes. :P

the graphics are sharper with more colors, and the music is significantly better. Clearly you poor lads never had the opportunity to own a Master System back in the day :D
 
tried asking this in an old paper mario thread but got no response, so i thought i'd bring it to you guys, as many of you seem to be pretty knowledgeable where developers and current activity are concerned. i'm sorry for shitting up the v.c. thread with it, but starting a new thread for one question seems pretty silly.

does anyone know what alphadream is up to now?
 
borghe said:
nostalgia can be the ugliest drug of all sometimes. :P

the graphics are sharper with more colors, and the music is significantly better. Clearly you poor lads never had the opportunity to own a Master System back in the day :D

It isn't the nostalgia talking in that sense, I have tried both and I just prefer Adventure Island

I played Adventure Island 2 before either of them and adored it, but there is just something about the NES graphics that are endearing if you can take them as they were, even Double Dragon for the NES has the most character

I still think the FF1 NES sprites are better than the remakes sprites, and that was because of the limitations. Working with limitations can create some wonderful things that you never intended for in the first place!
 
Osuwari said:
either they have been disbanded or are working in some unknown game that will randomly pop up at E3.

I wouldn't think their games had done poorly enough to warrant disbanding. I figured the two Mario and Luigi games sold well, and I can't really imagine a Hamtaro game bombing with its audience.
 
I'd only pay $50 if I had some trust that AlphaDream wouldn't pull a "Partners in Time" again and give the bosses ludicrous amounts of HP that stretch the battles out forever but don't increase the challenge at all. :/ The last boss
--well, the sequence of last boss fights--
took me like 117 minutes. Ugh.
 
yeah, that was atrocious.

i'd rather it be a ds game, for the record. i think i.s. will turn out what's ostensibly a return to form where the paper mario games are concerned when that time comes.

this is all speculation, of course, since the info cheesemeister posted could be construed as good evidence that alphadream's up to a whole lot of nothing :(
 
Jiggy37 said:
I'd only pay $50 if I had some trust that AlphaDream wouldn't pull a "Partners in Time" again and give the bosses ludicrous amounts of HP that stretch the battles out forever but don't increase the challenge at all. :/ The last boss
--well, the sequence of last boss fights--
took me like 117 minutes. Ugh.

I wish I had such a good reason for disliking PiT. I just hate the babies. Baby Mario, Baby Luigi, Baby anything. They bother me.
 
Jiggy37 said:
I'd only pay $50 if I had some trust that AlphaDream wouldn't pull a "Partners in Time" again and give the bosses ludicrous amounts of HP that stretch the battles out forever but don't increase the challenge at all. :/ The last boss
--well, the sequence of last boss fights--
took me like 117 minutes. Ugh.

Wasn't the first Mario & Luigi like that anyway?

The Christmas tree boss in particular was hopelessly long. I can't stand RPG bosses like that >=(

And the babies in PiT were awesome. Baby Luigi cracks me up :D
 
Jazzem said:
Wasn't the first Mario & Luigi like that anyway?

The Christmas tree boss in particular was hopelessly long. I can't stand RPG bosses like that >=(

And the babies in PiT were awesome. Baby Luigi cracks me up :D

Thunder ability is your friend. Reduces boss' defense by a truckload.
 
Jazzem said:
Wasn't the first Mario & Luigi like that anyway?

The Christmas tree boss in particular was hopelessly long. I can't stand RPG bosses like that >=(

And the babies in PiT were awesome. Baby Luigi cracks me up :D

I just hate kids. I agree that the mechanics were solid, the story funny, and the uses of the characters good. I just hate kids.

Edit: Speaking of which, is the original Paper Mario better than Thousand Year Door?
 
crowphoenix said:
I just hate kids. I agree that the mechanics were solid, the story funny, and the uses of the characters good. I just hate kids.

Edit: Speaking of which, is the original Paper Mario better than Thousand Year Door?

But... I love you. :'(

Yes. Well, actually you're gonna get a lot of different opinions on that one.
 
crowphoenix said:
I wish I had such a good reason for disliking PiT. I just hate the babies. Baby Mario, Baby Luigi, Baby anything. They bother me.
I hate the babies in the Mario universe too, or at least when they're playable. :/ Actually, I guess I can't even quite say that, because I hated Baby Peach before they put her in Mario Kart Wii.

Also, this is a tangent, but I really hope Nintendo doesn't eventually start putting out Kid Luigi and Young Bowser and Teen Daisy and Adolescent Wario. D: That'd be even more horrifying than what we've currently got.


crowphoenix said:
Speaking of which, is the original Paper Mario better than Thousand Year Door?
A lot of people seem to think so, though I don't know why. I thought TTYD improved on the formula in every possible way.
 
cartman414 said:
Guess I should've added that Gradius II, which was powered by the VRC4 chip, didn't use any sound hardware.

If the sound played fine on a NES, it obviously didn't.

(Is this true for Crisis Force too?)

I also did play Akumajou Densetsu through a converter when I first got it, and prior to getting my AV Famicom, and none of the VRC6 sound chip generated music made it through. (The graphics might have also been lost in translation, unless that was just the inability of the cart + converter to stay in my front-loading NES, which I was using.) It is emulated perfectly though, and there are many videos of it in action on Youtube.

I would think that the improved graphics would be fine, because I wouldn't think that that would be coming through those sound pins...

Sindou_Hikaru20 said:
Help

How can i unlock the 3 Secret Cars in Cruis'n USA? Because i cant push the 3 c-buttons (left, up down) because it's a stick now :lol

I'd imagine that unless there's some VC controller that maps it to buttons instead of a stick, you can't.

Chalk this up to yet one more reason why the idea of replacing four buttons with an analog stick is an incredibly, incredibly bad idea (and that the CC was horribly designed for N64 and Genesis games)?

borghe said:
nostalgia can be the ugliest drug of all sometimes. :P

the graphics are sharper with more colors, and the music is significantly better. Clearly you poor lads never had the opportunity to own a Master System back in the day :D

Agreed, the SMS version has substantially better graphics and sound.
 
I think a lot of N64 games map the C buttons to some of the other buttons on the controller so you might want to try that. IIRC, OoT mapped C-Left to Y, C-Down to Z, and C-Right to X. C-Up was only on the stick though. So I guess try pressing Y, Z, and C-Stick Up on the GCN controller.
 
JSnake said:
But... I love you. :'(

Yes. Well, actually you're gonna get a lot of different opinions on that one.

By kids, I mean those younger than 12. The more coherent they can phrase their thoughts the better. :lol

Jiggy37 said:
I hate the babies in the Mario universe too, or at least when they're playable. :/ Actually, I guess I can't even quite say that, because I hated Baby Peach before they put her in Mario Kart Wii.

Also, this is a tangent, but I really hope Nintendo doesn't eventually start putting out Kid Luigi and Young Bowser and Teen Daisy and Adolescent Wario. D: That'd be even more horrifying than what we've currently got.


A lot of people seem to think so, though I don't know why. I thought TTYD improved on the formula in every possible way.



I enjoyed TTYD. Well, what I've played of it (The game gave me headaches), and I was wondering how PM stacked up against it.

Also, Adolescent Wario is the funniest mental image I've ever had. :lol
 
Most people agree that Thousand Year Door is better than Paper Mario.

The real fight for the crown of best Mario RPG is a very epic fight. TTYD vs Mario and Luigi:Superstar Saga vs SMRPG. I can't decide.
 
CRUSIN', CRUSIN' USA

YEEEAAAAH

(wait, wasn't Crusin USA published by Nintendo? So this isn't the first N64 third party game FUCK.)
 
Man God said:
The real fight for the crown of best Mario RPG is a very epic fight. TTYD vs Mario and Luigi:Superstar Saga vs SMRPG. I can't decide.

why bother trying? it's like arguing about chocolate versus vanilla ice cream. it's alllllll good.
 
lsslave said:
It isn't the nostalgia talking in that sense, I have tried both and I just prefer Adventure Island

I played Adventure Island 2 before either of them and adored it, but there is just something about the NES graphics that are endearing if you can take them as they were, even Double Dragon for the NES has the most character

I still think the FF1 NES sprites are better than the remakes sprites, and that was because of the limitations. Working with limitations can create some wonderful things that you never intended for in the first place!
well, we can leave it at this.. "technically", Wonder Boy is superior to Adventure Island, and by most counts, the music is better as well. You may have a soft spot for Adventure Island or prefer Master Higgins and friends to Tom-Tom and Co., but if someone uninitiated in the whole mess came and asked me, I would have to recommend Wonder Boy based on it looking and sounding much better from a technical aspect. this certainly doesn't impose on your opinion, but the technical improvements are pretty hard to deny for people that didn't grow up on one series or another.

that being said, the graphics and sound are relatively minor parts of the games. The gameplay is where it's at for these two, and in that department they are identical.
 
Jiggy37 said:
According to VC-reviews, Vectorman has been on the European VC since April 5th, 2007. I wouldn't get my hopes up too much, at this rate. :/ It's like Mega Man 1 and 2 all over again.


What is the logic behind this?
 
It's not too late, borghe. It's not too late to become a disciple of Master Higgins. Save yourself!! How can you expect to enjoy the bliss of Higgins, when you deny him as your savior??
 
A Black Falcon said:
If the sound played fine on a NES, it obviously didn't.

(Is this true for Crisis Force too?)

Never tried out Crisis Force on the NES via converter, but I imagine it would work fine. It was on a later revision of the VRC4.

I would think that the improved graphics would be fine, because I wouldn't think that that would be coming through those sound pins...

Yeah.
 
Man God said:
Most people agree that Thousand Year Door is better than Paper Mario.

The real fight for the crown of best Mario RPG is a very epic fight. TTYD vs Mario and Luigi:Superstar Saga vs SMRPG. I can't decide.

They do? But N64 Paper Mario IS the best game in the series... :)

I got TTYD, but it just wasn't as good.

Odrion said:
CRUSIN', CRUSIN' USA

YEEEAAAAH

(wait, wasn't Crusin USA published by Nintendo? So this isn't the first N64 third party game FUCK.)

Published by Nintendo, but not developed by them. The only other N64 game not developed by first-party Nintendo in the VC is Sin & Punishment, I'm pretty sure. Just that is a good sign, given that while the first party games were the best, the N64's third party lineup had a lot of great games in it too... now I'm just hoping for controller pak support so most of the rest of the N64's third party titles can come into consideration. :)

(On that note, Konami's major N64 games -- Castlevania, Castlevania: Legacy of Darkness, Hybrid Heaven, Mystical Ninja Starring Goemon, Goemon's Great Adventure, and maybe another one or two -- all had on-cart save in Japan. It was removed in favor of controller pak saves for their Western releases. :()

N64 Rare stuff would be best of course, but other than DK64 and maybe DKR someday we're obviously not getting that. :(

cartman414 said:
Never tried out Crisis Force on the NES via converter, but I imagine it would work fine. It was on a later revision of the VRC4.

Yeah.

That's good. I did notice that the VRC4 wasn't listed in the list of add-on chips with sound capabilities, while several other VRC chips (and the FDD and a few others) were, so that makes sense.

It's too bad we didn't get those games here... I always liked Konami's shmups best.
 
Does anyone have any idea if we were robbed of 400 point SMS releases, or if (for some reason beyond comprehension) Wonder Boy is a "special case"?
 
DavidDayton said:
Does anyone have any idea if we were robbed of 400 point SMS releases, or if (for some reason beyond comprehension) Wonder Boy is a "special case"?

Someone offered the idea of it being at 500 points to match the price of the NES Adventure Island.
 
Narag said:
Someone offered the idea of it being at 500 points to match the price of the NES Adventure Island.

That still seems... weird, especially after the Sega press release.

Anyone have a link to the press release?

I was just wondering whether Wonder Boy had some sort of dual rights issue with it -- did Sega own the game outright, or did they share the rights with whatever-the-original-developer-was-called?
 
A Black Falcon said:
They do? But N64 Paper Mario IS the best game in the series... :)

I got TTYD, but it just wasn't as good.

Could you go a little more in depth about what made it better? I'm considering picking it up.
 
crowphoenix said:
Could you go a little more in depth about what made it better? I'm considering picking it up.

hmmm...I thought TTYD was the best one personally. I'm playing through PM64, and to be honest, I think it lacks the depth offered in the GC sequel.

Just my opinion though :)
 
crowphoenix said:
Could you go a little more in depth about what made it better? I'm considering picking it up.

Hmm... that's hard, actually. I mean, both games were very, very good. However, I loved and finished Paper Mario (about 30 hours), while in TTYD, I didn't finish it... I quit midway. It was funny, I mostly liked it, the graphical style was great... but for some reason, it just didn't grab me like the first game did. I'm not quite sure if I can say why, though. I will admit that when I think of how to describe the first Paper Mario, it sounds kind of like "like the second game, but without some things", which should mean that the second game is better, but... I don't know, I guess that despite that I just liked the settings of the first game better. But really, they're both fantastic.

What was great about the first one, though... well, it was original. The 'Paper' thing is quite clever, and that was the first game with it. The plot was also amusing... it brought back the old "Bowser kidnapped the princess!" plot again, but made it quite funny with the great writing. I liked the plot better than the second game -- the X guys or whatever just weren't as funny as Bowser... same goes for the segments with the Princess, they were a bit more substantial (though still not long) in the first game. There were no Bowser segments, though. Even so, I'd give the better plot to the first game. Bowser just works better as the main villain than some random new characters and their computer. I think the fact that the main plot wasn't as engaging was a big part of why I liked the first game more... sure it's "Rescue the Princess" again, but so is the second game, and it's funnier and more series-appropriate in the first one. The part at the beginning where Bowser beats Mario was just awesome... :)

I also liked the characters (other party members, etc) in the game a lot. The second game certainly had its moments too, but I thought the first one was even better. I think the first one had somewhat better pacing, too. Slightly less script (just as funny writing, but a bit less... TTYD had a huge amount of text. That's not bad -- I like games with lots of text -- but the first game had it pretty much perfect.), and better pacing between chapters... and I definitely thought that the segments with the princess were a lot better in the first game. Bowser's segments were just too short to make much impact (though the 'Bowser in world 1-1' section was awesome).

Gameplay was similar, but without the 'crowd' aspect. I didn't mind, because I never really got into the whole crowd thing... you can do things to please the crowd and such ('Stylish' moves), but I never really got used to doing that, I think, and it didn't really seem worth it mostly. Paper Mario's battles were great as they were, with the same great timing aspects adding a lot of fun. The graphics are fantastic, some of the N64's best. It does a really good job of looking like a Mario world, but with paper characters... I was totally hooked with the game, and played it through until completion in under a month. In TTYD, in comparison, I just got bored repeatedly midway, and quit for long periods of time before finally just stopping. For instance, the chapter in the fighting arena area... sure it was really funny at first -- Mario's natural nickname is "The Great Gonzalez"? :) -- but it just dragged on and on with minimal change before finally ending... the first game never felt like it was dragging like that. Sure, TTYD pretty much had more of everything, but the first one came together better overall. Really everyone with any interest in the games should play both, though. They're both great. I should play both of them again, it's been a while.
 
A Black Falcon said:
That's good. I did notice that the VRC4 wasn't listed in the list of add-on chips with sound capabilities, while several other VRC chips (and the FDD and a few others) were, so that makes sense.

The only VRC chips with sound hardware were 6 and 7. 6 was used by Akumajou Densetsu, Madara and Esper Dream 2. 7, which included an FM chip, was used by Lagrange Point and Tiny Toon Adventures 2, but the latter didn't use the special sound.

It's too bad we didn't get those games here... I always liked Konami's shmups best.

Yeah. Apparently they didn't want to spend the extra money to convert Gradius II over to MMCx format. Crisis Force had the added stigma of arriving as the SNES generation came underway.

At least we got Salamander/Life Force, even though the option max per ship was taken down from 3 to 2.
 
DavidDayton said:
That still seems... weird, especially after the Sega press release.

Anyone have a link to the press release?

I was just wondering whether Wonder Boy had some sort of dual rights issue with it -- did Sega own the game outright, or did they share the rights with whatever-the-original-developer-was-called?
Sega owns the characters and the sprite assets, so basically they own the game. My guess is Sega and/or Nintendo did this to appease Hudson (VC's biggest supporter) so as to not have the same game available on the system for $1 less. Dynastic Hero is the same price as Wonder Boy in Monster World.. I mean I realize that's a CD, but still Hudson probably isn't happy about the concept of the same games being available across different consoles for different prices.
 
I think that Thousand Year Door is better game than Paper Mario overall, but I enjoyed the game a little bit less because it was so very similar to the first, just with much more content. It was still fantastic, and I loved many of the new features and great humor, but it became a bit of a chore at times and lacked some of the freshness of the first. The setting changed and new mechanics were added, but I flet like I was replaying Paper Mario half of the time. I haven't played Super Paper Mario yet, but I was glad to see them try something radically different there.

The Mario and Luigi games have the opposite problem. Superstar Saga was highly original, featured plentiful exploration and a fun, interactive world with creative dungeon designs, a great central town, sidequests, entertaining new characters, wonderful references, and even some respect for Luigi.

Partners in Time replaced all of that with the babies. The babies are funny in VERY small doses, but become grating. The dungeons are completely linear and lack most of the secrets from before. There is virtually no overworld to speak of. The castle has no real town aspects. The extra button presses from the babies make fights tedious. Some of the fights are more fun because of the extra complexity, but it gets old after using it in every fight. Finally, most of the humor seems to come from watching Luigi in pain. The secret guest appearance from the prior game was one of the few parts that actually made me laugh.
 
borghe said:
well, we can leave it at this.. "technically", Wonder Boy is superior to Adventure Island, and by most counts, the music is better as well. You may have a soft spot for Adventure Island or prefer Master Higgins and friends to Tom-Tom and Co., but if someone uninitiated in the whole mess came and asked me, I would have to recommend Wonder Boy based on it looking and sounding much better from a technical aspect. this certainly doesn't impose on your opinion, but the technical improvements are pretty hard to deny for people that didn't grow up on one series or another.

that being said, the graphics and sound are relatively minor parts of the games. The gameplay is where it's at for these two, and in that department they are identical.

Actually based off your recommendation in this thread I picked up Wonder Boy over Adventure Island (I had played AI on NES but really had no real sense of nostolgia for it) and technically I'm amazed at what the Master System could do. Growing up I had a NES and didn't no anyone with a SMS so this is my first experience with the console and its games. Any other recommendations that should pop up on VC?
 
tim1138 said:
Any other recommendations that should pop up on VC?

You should at least Try Sonic 2, Sonic Chaos, Alex Kidd in Miracle World, Alex Kidd in Shinobi World, California Games (Had more events than Mega Drive), Psycho Fox, and other Wonder Boy games (if you don't have the TG-16 equivelant), Phantasy Star

Theres some stuff like Fantasy Zone, Transbot or Zillion people love but it's best to look up on Youtube or something first.

The main problem is that most Master System games were either A) Licensed games or B) Downgrade versions of the better Megadrive versions. So you probably won't see Mickey Mouse: Land of Illusion, Taz-Mania, Ninja Gaiden (different from NES), Deep Duck Trouble etc.
 
i misjudged donkey kong country 2. i have conflated it with my poor memories of dkc1, thinking it of equal middling quality. replaying it now, diddy's quite a bit more agile and responsive than i remembered, and there are lots of cool things to collect and secrets to find. recommended.
 
beelzebozo said:
i misjudged donkey kong country 2. i have conflated it with my poor memories of dkc1, thinking it of equal middling quality. replaying it now, diddy's quite a bit more agile and responsive than i remembered, and there are lots of cool things to collect and secrets to find. recommended.

I never played any DKC in their entirety, so the overall mediocrity of DKC didn't surprise me, but the general awesomeness in DKC did. Better music, better level design (wait, you can go up now?), better second character. Best in the series.
 
Rlan said:
You should at least Try Sonic 2, Sonic Chaos, Alex Kidd in Miracle World, Alex Kidd in Shinobi World, California Games (Had more events than Mega Drive), Psycho Fox, and other Wonder Boy games (if you don't have the TG-16 equivelant), Phantasy Star

Theres some stuff like Fantasy Zone, Transbot or Zillion people love but it's best to look up on Youtube or something first.

The main problem is that most Master System games were either A) Licensed games or B) Downgrade versions of the better Megadrive versions. So you probably won't see Mickey Mouse: Land of Illusion, Taz-Mania, Ninja Gaiden (different from NES), Deep Duck Trouble etc.

Sonic 2 was a SMS game, I always thought that was on Genesis? I have that on the Sonic Mega Collection for GCN. Hopefully they put up the Alex Kidd games, and I've yet to purchase any of the other Wonder Boy games for TG-16. Thanks for the recommondations though! Oh, was the SMS Ninja Gaiden based off the original arcade game?
 
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