EphemeralDream
Member
Uh having the "original" game on VC at the time of the remake's release would help spur sales of the VC game surely. The sales boost would work in both directions.Scrubking said:
Official bitching about Hudson abandoning VC support. [VC/WiiWare = lost cause]
- Thread starter Kobun Heat
- Start date
A week legitimately worth compalining about.
Anyway, until Japan starts getting Mega Man don't expect it over here. Like some people pointed out MMAC is the likely culprit.
Sega, Hudson and D4 need to step it up. Nintendo is the only one making it's regular VC quotas since the year started.
Also, since the games already have their content together they can be rated an arbitrary amount of time before they release. In fact, the logistics don't even need to be figured out. A rating is not a deciding factor. Sega probably hasn't even started testing SF2, they just rated it because they could.
Anyway, until Japan starts getting Mega Man don't expect it over here. Like some people pointed out MMAC is the likely culprit.
Sega, Hudson and D4 need to step it up. Nintendo is the only one making it's regular VC quotas since the year started.
Also, since the games already have their content together they can be rated an arbitrary amount of time before they release. In fact, the logistics don't even need to be figured out. A rating is not a deciding factor. Sega probably hasn't even started testing SF2, they just rated it because they could.
SpoonyBard
Banned
Fredrik said:Wow. All europeans. Get an arcade stick, some Wii Points, turn up the volume on the TV/stereo, and buy The Last Ninja, and lets enjoy one of the most memorable retro titles ever made.
Thanks Nintendo! Best Virtual Console week ever!
Tha gameplay in The Last Ninja was already annoying 20 years ago, I don't know if I want to play it again today. Anyways, I downloaded World Games and California Games, and even they weren't as good as I remembered. Meh. A digital joystick would probably make them a little better.... would this one work for C64 games:
http://www.play-asia.com/paOS-13-71-113-49-en-70-23bd.html
Fess
Member
Personally I think The Last Ninja is like GTA, you know it has tons of flaws but when looking at it as a total package it's still an awesome game. I can seriously enjoy playing it just because of the music.SpoonyBard said:
Yes I have the Hori-stick and it work's fine with C64-games and is perfect for just about every shooter type of game on the other VC-systems too.
I also have the NeoGeo-stick that was recently released and that's what I'm using myself right now.
http://www.play-asia.com/paOS-13-71-113-49-en-70-2k7a.html
crowphoenix
Banned
Woo boy. Now this is a week. :lol Double Dragon? Really? I mean, sure, it's a good game. But we just got RCR last week which is better, in my opinion. I imagine when SF2 actually goes up, I'll sit there in shock for a bit.
FFantasyFX
Member
Somnid said:
I agreed with most of Jiggy's post, but I think this is a valid counterpoint. It can be sometimes misleading to go by ESRB/PEGI/OFLC ratings. I believe Phantasy Star II, Phantasy Star III, and Phantasy Star IV were all submitted simultaneously to either the OFLC or PEGI, but that didn't lead me to believe they would all hit at the same time. Sega probably submitted them as a package because it was logistically easier for them to do so.
Likewise, I think it's a bit foolhardy to expect Shining Force II when it hasn't even been released in Japan yet. Sega has enough of a backlog to draw from just from Japanese VC releases. As you said, they probably had it rated because they knew it would eventually be released and the process would be quicker whenever testing was finished.
Now, I don't know what's going on with Ys Book I & II. I hope it's released soon, if only for Dragona's sanity. I doubt this thread title will be modified before it hits North America. :lol
Somnid said:
I get the impression that D4's heart really isn't in this thing. When they stopped releasing NeoGeo games for four months, I was worried that they didn't like the initial results their first offerings received and they had decided to stop support. Their support still seems rather tepid.
Sega is doing a fantastic job keeping the updates coming, but the games just simply can't escape Japan for some reason. We all know about Vectorman, ESWAT, and Crackdown. Europe hasn't received Ecco Jr, Columns III, Powerball, or Puyo Puyo Tsuu. Then, we have titles mired exclusively in Japan: Warsong (six months), Target Earth (seven months), Atomic Runner (eight months), and Shadow Dancer (sixteen months). Besides Phantasy Star III, Sega has added MUSHA, Phelios, Wings of Wor, and Super Fantasy Zone in the last two months in Japan. The games are there, they just aren't getting to us for some absurd reason.
Hudson is the most inexplicable. They've been a fantastic supporter so far, and now they've dropped off the face of the earth. Based on games recently rated, they seem to be prepping a good number of import titles, but it seems odd that they can't get at least one other game a month out while still focusing on that.
While I can't vouch for Hudson's lack of NES, SNES, and N64 support, their US TG16 release library is pretty much exhausted (there were only about 95 total US releases, and we have about half of them now), and there weren't all that many TGCD games either (about 40 or so total in the US, I'm not sure about 1st party vs 3rd party).
In terms of US TG16 (I'm not totally sure about TGCD, although Japan has Dragon Slayer, Dungeon Explorer II, and Ys 1 & 2, which did get US releases) games that we don't have from companies currently supporting the VC, it's a pretty short list.
Potential VC Games:
Aero Blasters Hudson/Kaneko
Bomberman Hudson, not likely since we have Bomberman '93, which is superior
Cadash Taito/Working Designs
Chase HQ Taito
Fantasy Zone Sega/NEC
Final Lap Twin Namco
Hit the Ice Taito
Jackie Chan's Action Kung-Fu Hudson, not likely since it's licensed
Keith Courage Hudson, not likely since it's licensed
Night Creatures NEC
Pac-Land Namco
Parasol Stars Taito/Working Designs
Raiden Hudson/Seibu Kaihetsu
Somer Assault Atlus
Space Harrier Sega/NEC
Timeball Hudson/Broderbund
World Court Tennis Namco
I'm surprised we haven't seen Namco's remaining stuff yet, since we have all of their other TG16 titles. I suspect Sega would rather release just the SMS versions of their games, and Taito is just very slow and limited about VC support in general.
In terms of US TG16 (I'm not totally sure about TGCD, although Japan has Dragon Slayer, Dungeon Explorer II, and Ys 1 & 2, which did get US releases) games that we don't have from companies currently supporting the VC, it's a pretty short list.
Potential VC Games:
Aero Blasters Hudson/Kaneko
Bomberman Hudson, not likely since we have Bomberman '93, which is superior
Cadash Taito/Working Designs
Chase HQ Taito
Fantasy Zone Sega/NEC
Final Lap Twin Namco
Hit the Ice Taito
Jackie Chan's Action Kung-Fu Hudson, not likely since it's licensed
Keith Courage Hudson, not likely since it's licensed
Night Creatures NEC
Pac-Land Namco
Parasol Stars Taito/Working Designs
Raiden Hudson/Seibu Kaihetsu
Somer Assault Atlus
Space Harrier Sega/NEC
Timeball Hudson/Broderbund
World Court Tennis Namco
I'm surprised we haven't seen Namco's remaining stuff yet, since we have all of their other TG16 titles. I suspect Sega would rather release just the SMS versions of their games, and Taito is just very slow and limited about VC support in general.
Seriously, i can't see any intelligent reason for that VC drought other than spacing the releases because they fear they may miss games later on. Add to this that they probably studied the sales of 4 games week vs 3, vs 2, etc and maybe 2 games week ranked the best sales consistantly --- therefore giving another incentive to space out since they already fear to miss some games later on.
Seriously, if we break down the games available on all the systems by the publishers presently supporting the VC, is possible to say, fill 3 years of 3 games week?
Someone should really do the calculation for real.
Seriously, if we break down the games available on all the systems by the publishers presently supporting the VC, is possible to say, fill 3 years of 3 games week?
Someone should really do the calculation for real.
Fredrik said:Wow. All europeans. Get an arcade stick, some Wii Points, turn up the volume on the TV/stereo, and buy The Last Ninja, and lets enjoy one of the most memorable retro titles ever made.
Thanks Nintendo! Best Virtual Console week ever!
Ok, seriously. I got banned for one of the stupidest reasons known to man and refused to ever log on to neogaf again. But as soon as I saw this I had to make a post. Buy this game you fuckers, most amazing 8bit game ever made in the history of 8bit gaming.
You will never see me again. Last post. Etc etc. Buy game.
Segata Sanshiro
Member
Really? Too bad, you were one of the good ones.Mar_ said:
Ranger X said:
There were over 600 NES games alone. Its possible, but it requires support from existing third parties, and third parties that were extinguished + licensed titles. Maybe not even that drastic considering all the systems on the VC and companies supporting it already. And there is of course the quality issue.
While that's true, what would be the logic then in submitting only particular games to be rated by the ESRB at any given time? If they aren't submitting games they intend to release right away (see Shining Force II and other examples in Jiggy's excellent post), why bother to submit them to be rated? Or if that's the case, why not just dump their year's worth of VC releases on the ESRB, have them work through those and release as they go? Why are only a select number of games rated, and why do some release right after they are rated and otherwise idle there for months. It's not like there's any kind of awesome pattern or logic to the releases that Nintendo wouldn't want to disturb.Somnid said:
From an outsider's perspective, it looks like Nintendo -- and NOA in particular -- just doesn't really care all that much. They're content to just throw out an arbitrary bone or two each week and then leave it at that, and it's perplexing to me because the VC is such easy money. So... I don't know. Maybe the service's performance hasn't really met their expectations, and so they've severely limited their funding for it, or maybe they're working on a storage solution and don't want people complaining about filling up their Wii's so they've halted the flow until that gets sorted out (seems unlikely though), or maybe they're just scared that people will forego buying disk based games if there a regular enough supply of VC releases. It's just that to date they've done a really poor job of promoting the service, and so it's kind of hard to get excited about Wiiware when it'll have the same weekly release(s) schedule. Jiggy said the whole thing much better than I though, of course.
edit --
Why does it matter if they can fill up three years with releasing 3 games/week, though? If Nintendo makes proper use of the 'Everyone's Nintendo Channel' or whatever it's going to be called in North America to allow users to rate and promote the best VC games in all genres, there's no reason why sales should drop off once the weekly releases do -- which is the logic behind having a constant flow of games coming out. As well, even if/when they do run out of releases for the Virtual Console, they'll still have weekly Wiiware releases to make up for it. And though I'm not sure, I think Jiggy already did a detailed breakdown of how many games could be expected to be released for each console, although that may have been a few months now.Ranger X said:
I know I've said it before in this thread, but the videogame industry's retail model is really stupid. It promotes this stupid 'sell big in launch week or your game is screwed' mentality that makes it near impossible for you to find games even six months after they've come out unless they're something really popular like Mario, GTA, Halo, or Pokemon, or else you find a used copy somewhere. The fact that the Virtual Console has failed to shirk this model of there needing to be weekly releases in order to keep interest in the service is quite sad, but again hopefully that new channel makes it easier for the quality stuff to rise to the top instead of just being buried in a mass of releases once they slip off the 'new releases' list.
If Sega knows they eventually plan to release something then it doesn't really matter when it gets rated. What we see is only the stuff that they have allowed us to. There are probably a ton of games that are rated that the ESRB has been instructed not to divulge and a lot of that could have been rated for a while.
Anyway, dispite this month being a general bust the future is looking better. D4 looks like it's getting back on board, and Hudson should have a few imports. Sega should really try to increase their Master System output though, 1 a month is not good enough. I think May we should get back to a more resonable release schedual if all goes well.
Anyway, dispite this month being a general bust the future is looking better. D4 looks like it's getting back on board, and Hudson should have a few imports. Sega should really try to increase their Master System output though, 1 a month is not good enough. I think May we should get back to a more resonable release schedual if all goes well.
You guys didn't get me. I know all about what you are talking about and there's 45 different possible outcome and scenarios as to know how the VC will be handled in the future. Well, i'm not there at all.
I'm taking the situation as it is now and trying to find a reason for Nintendo to not update games faster. If this reason can be found here = It's possibly what Nintendo is doing and this reason can't be found here = Nintendo is a load of bullfuck.
Right now my thinking has been simple. I made a hypothesis wich is the following: The only one intelligent reaons i see the VC lacking updates is because of Nintendo not wanting the updates to go dry. They might want to keep updating games regularly until the gens end.
You cannot plan a system/service on "maybes" and "will see later". You plan it all from the start with what you have. Your other scenarios are possible but either need more publishers suddenly putting games, other channels suddenly working and Nintendo also changing his ways. Those hypothesis are automatically less probably to happen since they require so many conditions.
I'm taking the situation as it is now and trying to find a reason for Nintendo to not update games faster. If this reason can be found here = It's possibly what Nintendo is doing and this reason can't be found here = Nintendo is a load of bullfuck.
Right now my thinking has been simple. I made a hypothesis wich is the following: The only one intelligent reaons i see the VC lacking updates is because of Nintendo not wanting the updates to go dry. They might want to keep updating games regularly until the gens end.
You cannot plan a system/service on "maybes" and "will see later". You plan it all from the start with what you have. Your other scenarios are possible but either need more publishers suddenly putting games, other channels suddenly working and Nintendo also changing his ways. Those hypothesis are automatically less probably to happen since they require so many conditions.
PepsimanVsJoe
Member
Awesome week.
MoxManiac said:
You know, that's another possibility to this.
How many copies would a game have to sell to cover the rating costs, and how many copies does a typical "non big name" VC game sell?
Perhaps the Japanese system is cheaper for ratings than the US one?
RedBoot said:
Who was the "publisher" for that, again, and how many titles have they put on VC?
If a company isn't seeing enough on returns to justify future relicensing issues... then again, there are a pile of N64 and late-release SNES/NES games that have already been rated.
FFantasyFX
Member
DavidDayton said:
Wikipedia lists the publisher as Tozai, who distributed the NES game in North America. It would be their only VC title if they handled the release. However, Irem developed the game and holds the Japanese rights to Spelunker, so I wouldn't be surprised if they were the ones who pushed for it. Drawing from Wikipedia again, they've also released Super R-Type, Legend of Hero Tonma, Vigilante, and Ninja Spirit.
I find it difficult to believe that the rating fee is exorbitant, or else we wouldn't have gotten (for better or worse, I say better - I'm sure others would argue worse) some of the shovelware that we've received so far.
charlequin
Banned
DavidDayton said:
I did some napkin math on this recently; the mean sales of a VC game are somewhere in the neighborhood of 36,000 copies. Assuming that the total cost of converting a VC game and putting it up on the service is no greater than (say) $2000 and that half of the purchase cost goes towards that, an NES game would only need to sell 800 copies to clear that; an N64 game 400.
This could be way, way, off, but it seems to me like it wouldn't be too difficult to achieve this with most releases.
cartman414
Member
Jeremy Parish suggested on his boards that the ESRB rating fee is apparently something along the lines of $12k per game.
Really? D4's indefensible, but looking at the breakdown from the other publishers, here's what we've got since the beginning of the year:Somnid said:
Nintendo's releases - Star Tropics, Adventures of Lolo 2, 1080 Snowboarding, Kirby 64, Spelunker, Cruis'n USA, Yoshi's Cookie
Hudson's releases - Riot Zone, Psychosis, Lords of Thunder, DoReMi Fantasy
Sega's releases - Columns III, Phantasy Star II, Puyo Puyo 2, Powerball, Wonder Boy, Fantasy Zone, Mega Turrican, Phantasy Star III
Sega wins for quantity. Hudson did awesome with quality--I'd put DoReMi Fantasy alone ahead of the combined entirety of Nintendo's 2008 lineup, even though Star Tropics is a good game and Adventures of Lolo 2 is a great one. Nintendo's just been sucking wind in 2008.
Also important: Hudson is known to be working or have worked on several WiiWare projects. Between Bomberman, Alien Crush, Tetris, and Star Soldier R, I can say I have a decent idea of what they've been doing in their downtime. That's not true for Nintendo. They've got Dr. Mario. They've got Pokemon Farm, which isn't even a game but some bizarre fusion of a storage application and miniature expansion pack. Of course, they could have about a dozen other projects in the works--and I hope they do, but without evidence I can't exactly back them up on this point.
There's absolutely nothing to logically say that Sega "probably" hasn't been testing Shining Force II. Where are you getting that?
Even putting that aside, your argument is portraying the situation as though it were a single company with a single title that got rated and isn't showing up. I could buy that Sega screwed up with one game and got it rated for no particular reason. This is Sega, after all. They're a company with a figurehead who openly and idiotically stated that Sonic loses his appeal once people get over the age of twelve; I could buy that they'd mess up here or there. But it didn't happen only one time. They've also got Gleylancer waiting somewhere, a rating that showed up about half a year after Shining Force II. Not to say that Gleylancer should be out right now just because it was rated by Germany's ratings board in March 2008--I certainly don't expect a turnaround that quick even for an already-localized release, never mind an import title--but the point is that Sega would literally need to have not learned any kind of lesson from their first mistake. They would have had to get somebody to rate SFII however far in advance, not recognize six months later that it was a wasted effort, and then proceed to do it all over again.
But, hey, even if I conceded the point and said, yep, Sega botched their VC release schedule two entirely separate times spaced six months apart from each other, that still leaves Hudson. Did they get Final Soldier, Dragon Slayer, Star Parodier, Ys Book I & II, and Cho Aniki all rated without reason? Except for Star Parodier, every game in that list was up in Japan at some point in 2007, and yet they can't manage to have them up by May in North America? I tend to doubt that Hudson just managed to have testing issues get in their way, preventing them from releasing some of the only RPGs that would be available on VC, and preventing them from having the synergistic effect of releasing Final Soldier and Star Parodier close to Star Soldier R on WiiWare. (And, yes, I'm aware that Final Soldier and Star Parodier are import titles. But we're talking about Hudson here, who released DoReMi Fantasy with no modifications other than translating the credits into English. They probably don't intend to do much with these two Star Soldier games in terms of translation either, since now we're dealing with space shooters--text is more important to even a 2D platformer than that genre.)
And then there's the recent announcement of Earthworm Jim, Earthworm Jim 2, Boogerman, and Clayfighter. Interplay certainly seems to have a plan, but they couldn't announce any release dates or even any release timeframes more concrete than "this year." Is that because they haven't finalized their scheduling or because Nintendo won't allow the games at the times Interplay pushed for? That's an open question; I honestly don't know. But it's certainly starting to look suspicious to me.
And after the recent news about Nintendo blocking Bionic Commando, it's even more suspicious now.
That's why I never went after the Phantasy Star releases or Super Fantasy Zone in my last posts. I expect at least some kind of spacing, especially considering how Nintendo has handled its own first-party releases: Super Mario World didn't show until a couple months after Super Mario Bros., Legend of Zelda: LttP was a couple months after Ocarina of Time, etc. And I also didn't bring up certain titles that I really want, such as Star Parodier and Gleylancer, because they're such recent additions to the list of rated games that I don't have a problem with them not being available yet (except the normal sort of "problem," where I'd love to have them and don't). It's when games are sitting around unreleased for six months or nine months that everything stops making sense.FFantasyFX said:
(Alternatively, people complain about games not showing up when they're first-party Nintendo titles, a category of games that has the least possible barrier to entry on VC. I usually don't go that route myself, actually, but I understand why some do, which is why I mentioned Earthbound last time around. Adventures of Lolo 3 would be another similar title--it doesn't have Smash Bros. cross-promotion in its favor, but it does have two predecessors that were each made available on VC.)
Well, Wings of Wor and Super Fantasy Zone aren't up yet and Phelios was only released four days ago. Even I can't criticize those, despite the fact that I'd pretty happily buy them all. And even MUSHA, which I'd also buy, was only in the past month. Those aren't too bad. But for the ones that have been up in other regions for months, yes, there's no excuse. :/
I'm willing to hold out hope for these games as imports:sfog said:
Burning Angels - Made by Naxat Soft, like the already-available Psychosis. And it's a space shooter.
Coryoon - Same as Burning Angels.
Cotton - Published by Hudson.
Detana!! Twinbee - Made by Konami. They don't have any import titles up, but like the above three games, it's a space shooter. People probably don't care what the text says, assuming there even is any.
Gotzendiener - People tell me it doesn't have much if any text. Odd for an isometric action RPG, but whatever works.
Sapphire - A space shooter by Hudson. Considering what they did with DoReMi Fantasy (again, bringing it out with no translation), I'm more than willing to hope for this one. They're also re-releasing this game as part of a PSP collection in Japan, so apparently it's caught their interest as of late.
Summer Carnival '93: Nexzr Special - Naxat Soft again. The video is of regular Nexzr; I'm not sure what the difference beteween the two is. A space shooter again.
Sylphia - Scrolling shooter where you're a fairy this time. This one's by Compile, who already has some games up on VC.
And, of course, the two remaining TG16 Star Soldier games that were already rated for regions outside of Japan.
I don't think quality is an issue considering the kinds of games we've seen put up so far.Milabrega said:
Nailed it. I wish I'd thought of this logic before writing the post directly above, because it's just another great point in a case of mounting evidence that the VC releases don't have any sort of reason put into them.Meloche said:
Yeah, I didn't mention this line of my thinking in these past few posts, but as I said a few months ago... If it actually turns out that Nintendo is stalling with a slow release pattern specifically so that they can get their storage solution up and running, fine. Or if they're stalling because they want to renew interest right around the time of WiiWare and kick off a huge advertising campaign, that's fine too. I'll take back my criticism if some grander plan is at work here. After all, I don't only wish that VC will be better for me, but also that it will perform better for Nintendo, with greater returns on investment and so on, because that would benefit everybody: they make more money and also have more incentive to put up more games and push for others to put up more games, and so more gamers get a better library, more gamers discover older classics, knowledge of those classics is promoted, discussion of those classics is promoted, and in general the gaming industry becomes just a little bit better off.
It's just that for the time being, I have difficulty buying into the "stalling" theories because VC releases haven't slowed down in Japan.
Well, I do have my personal wishlist of about 85 games, as well as mentions for various excellent games that I don't think stand a chance, such as Lufia II, the SFC Fire Emblems, Genesis Aladdin, SNES Aladdin, and probably forty or so others. But I doubt that's the post you're thinking of. And if it is, it doesn't quite achieve the goal you're thinking of. I'd love to see somebody put together a breakdown like that, though.
(Incidentally, I really hope Square-Enix proves me wrong about Lufia II. :/ One of the best RPGs on SNES, but I suspect they won't release it, precisely because it's better than so many of their own RPGs. [By the way, don't let the YouTube framerate fool you: it's actually a really smooth game.] Its IP system even did something akin to limit breaks, except it did them about seven times better than Final Fantasy VII's limit breaks, and that was despite being released a year earlier. Basically, you still have a meter for special attacks that builds up by taking damage, but you have several possible attacks to choose from, contingent upon the equipment you're using--kind of akin to Final Fantasy IX teaching skills through the equipment, except that in Lufia II the equipment has to stay on. And those attacks use varying amounts of IP, so that you end up balancing the question of whether to use a low-IP move now or save for a bigger one. Neat system.)
Sure it does, if they intend to actually see a return on their investment some day. Also, with inflation taken into account, paying the same numerical amount of money ten months ahead of time would be a foolish idea.Somnid said:
charlequin
Banned
cartman414 said:
Having just doublechecked this now: the standard fee is $2500, as can be seen (among other places) in this article about WiiWare. It seems pretty unlikely to me that VC games would require much in the way of the additional ESRB services (like "rush delivery") that could jack the price up far above that standard rate.
Dragona Akehi
Retired
So it looks like it's between me and NOA now.
Come get some.
Come get some.
Visualante
Member
Could the ESRB be the limiting factor? Are they under any pressure to get these games rated on time? I think they should be charging less for games to be rated for digital distribution also.
twinturbo2
butthurt Heat fan
Hey, if you need some help, I'll help you.Dragona Akehi said:
But let me play some GTA4 first, okay?
twilitesparklemotion
Member
3:1 Nintendo, 1:1 Dragona.DavidDayton said:
I should imagine the ESRB fee along with just the general cost of putting the games online will make a publisher think twice about which games to put up. They've got to see some kind of return for doing it. I mean, if it costs a total of $10k to put a game online when all said and done, and the title is so obscure it only sells 500-1000, it could easily make a substantial loss.Visualante said:
pswii60 said:
Why do people keep tossing out this stupid explanation when the root of all criticism is that the games that are being put up are the ones that are so obscure and bad that it's hard to imagine they'll sell well? I mean, really, it's hard not to keep going back to the Spelunker example that was tossed out earlier, but come on.
Your explanation is only vaguely viable if publishers are only putting out a string of high profile, high quality games -- the sort sure to attract the interested eye of every forum goer. But obviously this is not what's happening!
PepsimanVsJoe
Member
See I don't think about that stuff because I know it'll keep me up at night.
I mean somebody out there paid money to have Donkey Kong Jr Math uploaded to the service! Is there any decent explanation as to why suddenly Nintendo/Sega/NEC/D3/???? are saying "hahaha....yeah right" at the thought of actually putting decent games on the service at a regular pace?
I mean somebody out there paid money to have Donkey Kong Jr Math uploaded to the service! Is there any decent explanation as to why suddenly Nintendo/Sega/NEC/D3/???? are saying "hahaha....yeah right" at the thought of actually putting decent games on the service at a regular pace?
Iam Canadian
and have the worst user name EVER
As a regular poster in this thread, I felt like tossing my own two cents in.
I'm really losing hope that the VC situation will ever get better. It's easy to keep finding time frames by which the circumstances will improve. "Oh, wait until WiiWare! Oh, wait until the Everybody's Nintendo channel launches!" These kinds of "deadlines" for the VC to improve have been tossed around for a while now, but I just don't see any of them bringing any kind of improvement; especially if WiiWare overshadows the VC with its original content.
The idea of Nintendo abandoning projects that perform below expectations, with the given example being the E-Reader, which was put forward by someone a few pages ago, has been bugging me ever since I read it. I know Nintendo has tried and abandoned their little experiments before; the Virtual Boy, the E-Reader, GCN-to-GBA connectivity, the N64DD; but I never cared about any of these projects, so I had no real stake in their viability.
But I think the VC is one of the best things, if not the best things the Wii has going for it; and if you're as much of a retro-gaming diehard as I am, one of the best things consoles in general have going for them, and I really hate to see it die. Right from the day it was announced, I was infatuated with the concept of the VC, which had such promise; a service delivering the most popular classics of yesteryear, along with forgotten gems that were overshadowed in their day. And even thought the actual execution was somewhat lacking, with the staggered releases, rigid pricing structure, and lack of storage options; I've still backed the VC. Thanks to the VC, I've discovered masterpieces of past eras that I had never experienced the first time around: just look at the praises I've been regularly singing for Gunstar Heroes and Lords of Thunder. But now, it's getting hard for even I to support the VC when it's sliding down such a sharp downward slope of quality and quantity.
If the reason for the VC's decline is indeed lackluster sales, then I fully believe that Nintendo has nobody but themselves to blame. As usual, I stand with Jiggy37 when it comes to Nintendo's lazy approach to the VC. I fully believe that the Virtual Console could be a cornerstone of the Wii, instead of an afterthought, a bone tossed to the hardcore gamer, as it currently is. Retro gaming has certainly come into its own this generation, and with some actual promotion and advertising from Nintendo, a release schedule actually worth waiting for every Friday (assuming it's on time, of course), and maybe a bigger effort to reach out to thir parties, I think the VC could be a much bigger success than it is.
But Nintendo has been content to rest on their laurels; aside from the introduction of imports and a handful of new systems, Nintendo has done nothing to even attempt to call attention to the service. The only mention I've ever seen of the VC in any of their advertising was their revealing of the release dates for Metroid and Super Metroid during their "Metroid Month". That's it. And the audience for Metroid Prime 3 likely had a lot of overlap with the audience that would actually care about the VC anyway.
In short; I don't think we gamers are demanding too much from Nintendo regarding the VC, considering what was offered. There is no reason that the release schedule should be dwindling, when one looks at ESRB-rated games we've yet to receive, games that are available in other territories like Europe (Mega Man is a huge offender here), or first-party Nintendo titles that have yet to see the light of day despite no barriers standing between them and release, such as Earthbound or Yoshi's Island. But Earthbound is an entirely different rant unto itself, so I won't be getting into that.
I'm fully aware that there are VC issues that are completely out of Nintendo's hands; licensed titles being difficult to rerelease, Square being complete jerks when it comes to releasing their old content; I'm not blaming Nintendo for any of that. But I believe that the blame for many more issues lays squarely at the feet of Nintendo. Why are we getting pittances while Japan still gets a fairly decent flow of titles? Answer me that, Nintendo.
I'm really losing hope that the VC situation will ever get better. It's easy to keep finding time frames by which the circumstances will improve. "Oh, wait until WiiWare! Oh, wait until the Everybody's Nintendo channel launches!" These kinds of "deadlines" for the VC to improve have been tossed around for a while now, but I just don't see any of them bringing any kind of improvement; especially if WiiWare overshadows the VC with its original content.
The idea of Nintendo abandoning projects that perform below expectations, with the given example being the E-Reader, which was put forward by someone a few pages ago, has been bugging me ever since I read it. I know Nintendo has tried and abandoned their little experiments before; the Virtual Boy, the E-Reader, GCN-to-GBA connectivity, the N64DD; but I never cared about any of these projects, so I had no real stake in their viability.
But I think the VC is one of the best things, if not the best things the Wii has going for it; and if you're as much of a retro-gaming diehard as I am, one of the best things consoles in general have going for them, and I really hate to see it die. Right from the day it was announced, I was infatuated with the concept of the VC, which had such promise; a service delivering the most popular classics of yesteryear, along with forgotten gems that were overshadowed in their day. And even thought the actual execution was somewhat lacking, with the staggered releases, rigid pricing structure, and lack of storage options; I've still backed the VC. Thanks to the VC, I've discovered masterpieces of past eras that I had never experienced the first time around: just look at the praises I've been regularly singing for Gunstar Heroes and Lords of Thunder. But now, it's getting hard for even I to support the VC when it's sliding down such a sharp downward slope of quality and quantity.
If the reason for the VC's decline is indeed lackluster sales, then I fully believe that Nintendo has nobody but themselves to blame. As usual, I stand with Jiggy37 when it comes to Nintendo's lazy approach to the VC. I fully believe that the Virtual Console could be a cornerstone of the Wii, instead of an afterthought, a bone tossed to the hardcore gamer, as it currently is. Retro gaming has certainly come into its own this generation, and with some actual promotion and advertising from Nintendo, a release schedule actually worth waiting for every Friday (assuming it's on time, of course), and maybe a bigger effort to reach out to thir parties, I think the VC could be a much bigger success than it is.
But Nintendo has been content to rest on their laurels; aside from the introduction of imports and a handful of new systems, Nintendo has done nothing to even attempt to call attention to the service. The only mention I've ever seen of the VC in any of their advertising was their revealing of the release dates for Metroid and Super Metroid during their "Metroid Month". That's it. And the audience for Metroid Prime 3 likely had a lot of overlap with the audience that would actually care about the VC anyway.
In short; I don't think we gamers are demanding too much from Nintendo regarding the VC, considering what was offered. There is no reason that the release schedule should be dwindling, when one looks at ESRB-rated games we've yet to receive, games that are available in other territories like Europe (Mega Man is a huge offender here), or first-party Nintendo titles that have yet to see the light of day despite no barriers standing between them and release, such as Earthbound or Yoshi's Island. But Earthbound is an entirely different rant unto itself, so I won't be getting into that.
I'm fully aware that there are VC issues that are completely out of Nintendo's hands; licensed titles being difficult to rerelease, Square being complete jerks when it comes to releasing their old content; I'm not blaming Nintendo for any of that. But I believe that the blame for many more issues lays squarely at the feet of Nintendo. Why are we getting pittances while Japan still gets a fairly decent flow of titles? Answer me that, Nintendo.
I think you're overestimating Nintendo. They don't seem to enjoy putting up a fight these days.doogle said:
Visualante said:
Hasn't seemed to make publishers think twice so far. Spelunker and Donkey Kong Jr. Math have already been mentioned, but there are others: China Warrior, Power Golf, Ecco Jr, Operation Wolf, Legend of Kage. The list continues. When huge and financially-intelligent companies like Nintendo and Square-Enix are greenlighting garbage such as Urban Champion and King's Knight, quality assurance doesn't seem to be an issue.pswii60 said:
As for the question of obscurity, some games are of almost the fullest obscurity possible due to never having been released outside Japan. Mario's Super Picross and Puyo Puyo 2 were able to benefit from their franchises being known, but Sin and Punishment and DoReMi Fantasy were released with no issue.
But, honestly, I see this whole question as a red herring anyway. Most of the people continuing to criticize the way VC is being handled aren't doing so because Paladin's Quest and The 7th Saga show no signs of appearing, or because those blasted companies of Scamco, Square-Enix, and Konami won't localize (respectively) Valkyrie no Densetsu, Wonder Project J2, and Tokimeki Memorial. (Obligatory mention that I would pay for translated versions of those three games in a heartbeat--but my complains have certainly never centered around games with so many obstacles in the way of their release.)
No, it's not the obscurities that anyone's complaining about. People want Mega Man, Mega Man 2, and Vectorman, big-name titles which are already available in Europe. They want Castlevania III: Dracula's Curse--fairly reasonable, since three other pre-SOTN Castlevanias are available on VC. They want Earthbound, a first-party Nintendo title that might very well justify its cost from GAF buyers alone (as well as the various devotees willing to gift it to ten friends each). They want Adventures of Lolo 3, another reasonable expectation since Nintendo seemed comfortable enough with the sales of the original game to release Lolo 2 on VC over five months later.
I guess you'll always have sandals to haunt your dreams.PepsimanVsJoe said:
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and have the worst user name EVER
Jiggy37 said:I think you're overestimating Nintendo. They don't seem to enjoy putting up a fight these days.
Oh, I don't know. Nintendo certainly seems to put a certain amount of effort into alienating its core gamer fans.
Eh, I actually don't buy that they're ignoring core gamers this gen in terms of the actual game output, but that's another argument for another thread.
That said, they're being exceptionally annoying with their silent treatment act--I love how we're two weeks away from WiiWare and still know next to nothing in terms of dates and pricing for most every game we've heard of, which is only one offense in a long string of them (zero details on Kirby Ultra Super Deluxe since it was announced, zero details on Fire Emblem DS, and so on). To say nothing of their PR war informing us that we're supposed to clean our fridges and smile over one-game weeks because they're loldouble.
That said, they're being exceptionally annoying with their silent treatment act--I love how we're two weeks away from WiiWare and still know next to nothing in terms of dates and pricing for most every game we've heard of, which is only one offense in a long string of them (zero details on Kirby Ultra Super Deluxe since it was announced, zero details on Fire Emblem DS, and so on). To say nothing of their PR war informing us that we're supposed to clean our fridges and smile over one-game weeks because they're loldouble.
Iam Canadian
and have the worst user name EVER
lupin23rd said:
The first game has been on the North American VC for quite a while.
Capndrake said:
This makes me very irate.
A Black Falcon
Member
Jiggy37 said:
Bloodlines is on VC?
But yes, Nintendo is being pretty ridiculous. If they wanted to solve these problems, they could. If they wanted to get Western developers onto the VC in a significant fashion, they could (Interplay's announcement is good news here, but that's just one). If they wanted more from certain developers, they could... well, maybe not Square-Enix, but others.
People just want four games a week every week. If they did that, even though there'd surely be more bad games, there'd be more good or interesting ones too. There are more than enough games across all these platforms to do it. It's ridiculous that they aren't.