topsyturvy
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welcome.Kintaco said:
Official CNN 1/31 Democratic Debate Thread: Obama v. Clinton
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KilledByBill
Member
harSon said:
Maybe he enjoys watching Hillary twist in the wind in trying to explain why she voted to authorize the Iraq War. Obama destroyed her on that and if she can't handle it now what's she going to do if she's up against the Republicans.
Manmademan
Member
harSon said:
California, also. The thing is, if Barack manages to TIE or even come CLOSE to tying on super tuesday, that's a tremendous momentum builder for him. It says that his candidacy is a very real thing.
So far (in terms of delegates) hillary hasn't managed to win ONE state from Barack in any of the primaries they've gone head to head. NH was a tie, NV was a loss, and she got blown out in Iowa and South Carolina.
the longer the contest goes on, the better he does, and if she's unable to do put up a substantial lead on super tuesday, then she's finished in this primary.
PillowKnight
Member
PhoenixDark said:
PhoenixDark said:
Interesting
But that isn't remotely as relevant. Fox's viewers naturally lean more the right, where not only would that inherently give Obama more of an edge, but it also means that the people surveyed there would hold the Iraq war with greater importance.
If you're trying to look at which group are the more traditional Democratic voters voting with traditional Democratic values, Hillary won.
Not by much. No one's saying that. But amongst traditional Dems, she did.
CoolTrick said:
Uh. Notwithstanding today's news from the NJ(yes, the methodology is clearly suspect) that Obama is by far the most liberal member of the Senate, why would Fox viewers give the edge to Obama? Because he's more centrist? Is that what you're trying to attempt to get at? Because if that's the case, it's not remotely true. But then again, having seen your act thus far I don't even know why I'm responding.
Manmademan
Member
CoolTrick said:
yeah, and they also said that group split 60-40. with such a small sample size (and clinton pandering HEAVILY to the women there) it's hardly relevant.
If that room was half black and leaned obama, it would be similarly irrelevant.
I don't know, why not ask that question to the Independants and moderate republicans Obama claims he'd be able to do so well with.
The ironic thing is that you're right, Obama IS more liberal than Clinton, so, no, I DON'T know why people who lean more to the right like Obama more. But they do, and thus, he'd have an edge in a Fox news poll.
Well, yes, and no. Relevant in the grand scheme of things? No.
But, uh, if we're trying to determine who won the debate (if a winner can be assigned), there's nothing wrong with noting Clinton won that.
I don't understand why Obamites are so completely and utterly relentless about giving Hillary any victory whatsoever. She won that poll of undecided Democrats polled by a Democratic leaning network. That's that. No one's saying it's by a lot or that it's overly important at all, but Christ, you don't need to try and deny it or totally write it off.
ElectricBlue187
Member
scorcho said:
no that's impossible, white people only vote for other white people, its encoded in the white people DNA
Particle Physicist
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the cnn realtime poll thing is useless. from the beginning it would shoot up when it was hillary's turn to talk, even before she said anything. so i really doubt that everyone was 'undecided'.
the post-cnn talk responded to an e-mail about that by saying that they never claimed that the polled group was properly mixed and that it was mostly out of their hands since it was some professor at a university that chose the members.
the post-cnn talk responded to an e-mail about that by saying that they never claimed that the polled group was properly mixed and that it was mostly out of their hands since it was some professor at a university that chose the members.
CowboyAstronaut
Banned
Obama was very impressive in tonight's debate. As if this wasn't already known, but nobody can accuse Obama of merely being able to talk about hope, and change or inspiration. He knows his issues and defends them very well.
I also must say that I'm very proud of Hilary as well. She did a great job and THIS is the type of debate I like to see. I no longer have the same disliking for her that I did before due to the type of politics she was using.
Both candidates represented themselves very well and they should be proud of that. I can definitely see a Obama and Clinton or Vice Versa ticket on the way. It's the best chance they have at taking the white house.
The comment about Romney was awesome from Obama and so was his comment about the Straight Talk express losing some wheels about Mc Cain. Obama was fantastic.
This debate solidified to me that regardless of who the nominee is I will support them both. I hope that Hilary does not deviate from this more positive path she has decided to take after South Carolina's wakeup call.
http://my.barackobama.com/page/community/post/samgrahamfelsen/CGB7g#comment-gGxsxl
Check out that vid not bad at all! A bunch of undecideds who seemed to go overwhelmingly to Obama after watching the debate.
I aslo thought Obama's comment on immigrants being used as a scapegoat as a fantastic comment, because all too often immigrants are the scapegoat for what is more the result of bad economic policy be that terrible trade agreements that don't work to our benefit or tax cuts that only go to the wealthiest of Americans or even things like out of control spending.
Obama was very strong tonight is showing how he'd run against Mc Cain. He's very right that you need to provide a very strong contrast to what has been one of the most widely opposed things out there and that has been the Iraq war. If as many people are opposed to it as they say Obama being able to provide a true contrast stating he was against it from the very beginning would only work to his benefit. Mc Cain or Romney would so easily combat Hilary by simply pointing out that she voted for it so has no legs to stand on about opposition to it now.
That is something they cannot do with Obama. He has a political firewall in that sense.
I also must say that I'm very proud of Hilary as well. She did a great job and THIS is the type of debate I like to see. I no longer have the same disliking for her that I did before due to the type of politics she was using.
Both candidates represented themselves very well and they should be proud of that. I can definitely see a Obama and Clinton or Vice Versa ticket on the way. It's the best chance they have at taking the white house.
The comment about Romney was awesome from Obama and so was his comment about the Straight Talk express losing some wheels about Mc Cain. Obama was fantastic.
This debate solidified to me that regardless of who the nominee is I will support them both. I hope that Hilary does not deviate from this more positive path she has decided to take after South Carolina's wakeup call.
http://my.barackobama.com/page/community/post/samgrahamfelsen/CGB7g#comment-gGxsxl
Check out that vid not bad at all! A bunch of undecideds who seemed to go overwhelmingly to Obama after watching the debate.
I aslo thought Obama's comment on immigrants being used as a scapegoat as a fantastic comment, because all too often immigrants are the scapegoat for what is more the result of bad economic policy be that terrible trade agreements that don't work to our benefit or tax cuts that only go to the wealthiest of Americans or even things like out of control spending.
Obama was very strong tonight is showing how he'd run against Mc Cain. He's very right that you need to provide a very strong contrast to what has been one of the most widely opposed things out there and that has been the Iraq war. If as many people are opposed to it as they say Obama being able to provide a true contrast stating he was against it from the very beginning would only work to his benefit. Mc Cain or Romney would so easily combat Hilary by simply pointing out that she voted for it so has no legs to stand on about opposition to it now.
That is something they cannot do with Obama. He has a political firewall in that sense.
AgentOtaku
Member
^^^^
word!
word!
Manmademan
Member
CoolTrick said:
were you born yesterday? Hillary clinton has been HEAVILY demonized by the right since Bill first took office. There are dozens and dozens of polls that show that moderate conservatives and the right in general absolutely loathe her. This is fact.
ANYONE you put up vs. clinton would have better numbers from those leaning right. this is fact.
uh, if you're trying to determine who won the debate, using a sample size THAT small (and from the shots they showed, there were MAYBE 15 people in that room) and splitting that close (CNN said 60/40) it's completely irrelevant.
add on top of that there seemed to be at least an even number of women vs. men in that room, and clinton's automatic high popularity with that group it's like stacking the deck. She would have an instant advantage without ever having to say anything.
imagine if half the room was black, or if it was clinton/huckabee and half the room was christian conservatives.
the cnn "live poll" is all KINDS of bunk for numerous reasons.
Would you mind using some freaking reading comprehension?
Obama Supporter: If Obama is more liberal than Clinton, why would he be leading in a Fox News poll?
Me: Gee, I don't know, why not ask the Independants and Moderate Republicans that support him.
You: AreyouretardedHillary'shatedbytherightblahblahblahblah
Stop taking arguments out of context and don't bother to reply if you're not going to look at the discussion we were having. We all know Hillary is hated by the right. That was my POINT in saying Obama would have an edge in a Fox poll.
Now it's my turn to ask: Were you born yesterday?
An even amount of men and women in a room helps Obama more than what would be represented in the country-wide Democratic primaries, where women make up more of the Democratic party and vote slightly more often.
Manmademan
Member
CoolTrick said:
Sure...so when you said:
and I explained to you WHY people who lean right prefer Obama over clinton DESPITE him having a "more liberal" record, MY comprehension is in question? GTFO of here with that.
my comments were perfectly within context. perhaps you simply forgot what you wrote?
Obama polls behind clinton in nationwide and state polls BECAUSE of hillary's massive advantage with women, who are the majority of the democratic voters. An even amount of women in the room gives clinton an advantage off the bat, as women respond to her a LOT better. Obama has no such advantage with men. He DOES have an advantage with minority and younger voters, which seemed to be absent in that room.
You don't seem to get it.
It was a rhetorical question I said to make a point. We're all keenly aware how hated Clinton is by the right and why Obama is more well received.
:lol :lol :lol :lol You're ridiculous.
1) If Hillary does much better with women than Obama, and women make up more of the democratic party than men and also vote more, then logic says if there's an even amount of men and women in a room, the two candidates are put on more equal ground which is helpful to Obama. Unfortunately that isn't how it's going to work on Super Tuesday.
2) Younger voters frankly don't vote in anywhere near the leagues that older people do. If they did, Obama would be beating Clinton.
We're talking facts, and you're trying to argue it.
I love how when Obama refers to winning the Presidency, he says president of THE united states of america. I just really get a feeling from him that he really cares for this country.
Is it just me, or does hillary seem so mechanical in the debates? It's like she has what she will say memorized. Don't even get me started on her laugh...sounds like a witch.
As far as Obama goes, again, I get a feeling of authenticity from him. I've heard some say that he stammers and stutters alot while talking, but I think that happens when you're truly thinking about what your saying, in the moment.
Is it just me, or does hillary seem so mechanical in the debates? It's like she has what she will say memorized. Don't even get me started on her laugh...sounds like a witch.
As far as Obama goes, again, I get a feeling of authenticity from him. I've heard some say that he stammers and stutters alot while talking, but I think that happens when you're truly thinking about what your saying, in the moment.
DarkJediKnight
Member
Hillary's laugh scares the heck out of me. :lol
Particle Physicist
between a quark and a baryon
APF said:
what? the war where we are bleeding a shit ton of money (and lives) is not an issue?
news to me.
topsyturvy
Member
she comes off poise in the debates and she doesn't say um and uh like others.j-wood said:
Have you guys saw the polls lately? the war isn't a top issue like the economy.harSon said:
topsyturvy
Member
get real.harSon said:
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