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Official Doctor Who Series 1, 5, 31, or Fnarg Thread of Moffat & Smith
- Thread starter Mr. Sam
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Keyser Soze
Member
CRACK
BLINK
BLINK
Keyser Soze
Member
Terrible game!!
Adam Scott Aukerman
Member
It's Khan all over again. Worra bellend.
And who let RTD back in the building?
And who let RTD back in the building?
Now that was an episode of Doctor Who. So very Doctor Who, amazingly Doctor Who. Show me that, & you sell amnesiac me on Doctor Who forever.
That was a better intro to why you should like Doctor Who than any City of Death, Caves of Androzani, Blink, Girl in the Fireplace etc.
That wasn't the best episode ever, but it was so amazingly good at being what is so special about the show.
That was a better intro to why you should like Doctor Who than any City of Death, Caves of Androzani, Blink, Girl in the Fireplace etc.
That wasn't the best episode ever, but it was so amazingly good at being what is so special about the show.
APZonerunner
Member
Wow, the new Daleks are massive. Are they almost seven feet tall now?
All in all a nice episode. I will miss the old design, though... then again, there's no stopping the "Time War" era Daleks appearing again in an episode set in that era, or another ship escaping out of the war. Would like to see both designs together again someday, actually.
All in all a nice episode. I will miss the old design, though... then again, there's no stopping the "Time War" era Daleks appearing again in an episode set in that era, or another ship escaping out of the war. Would like to see both designs together again someday, actually.
Spirit of Jazz
Banned
Having really enjoyed the first two episodes I thought that was a little naff. Still wasn't terrible by any means and it had some nice moments/dialogue (jammy dodger)
Still OMG next week; two parter, Moffat, Angels, Song!
Still OMG next week; two parter, Moffat, Angels, Song!
I enjoyed it. Churchill felt like he was ripped out of a Red Alert game, which is exactly what I wanted. The faster pace is also appreciated, since I always felt that the older series had a habit of plodding along. I expected to hate the Daleks, but their competence impressed me. All in all, it was a fun romp.
Jexhius said:
Maybe your right but theres just something about the pacing that really bugs me. It moves so fast that the 'twists' just wash over you and have no impact. Nothing builds, the episode starts, 2 minutes in the doctor is already shouting at daleks and its like im watching the conclusion to a flim that has no beginning if you get what I mean.
Better then Daleks in Manhatten...not as good as Dalek.
I liked the Dalek's cunning plan to get their device to work. New Daleks look badboys - I'm sure they will be back for the finale.
Spitfires made for some great images...but would it have really been hard for them to have been revealed as being in construction by Bracewell in the beginning rather then having them up and flying in seconds?!?!? That's right up there for RTD stupidity.
Dalek game looks fun though. Tomb Doctor!
I liked the Dalek's cunning plan to get their device to work. New Daleks look badboys - I'm sure they will be back for the finale.
Spitfires made for some great images...but would it have really been hard for them to have been revealed as being in construction by Bracewell in the beginning rather then having them up and flying in seconds?!?!? That's right up there for RTD stupidity.
Dalek game looks fun though. Tomb Doctor!
Oh for fuck's sake. First non-Moffat episode and we're back to terrible writing.
Positives:
- Dalek redesign is nice. Feels both fresh and retro at the same time. Good design work that.
- Introducing a plot mechanic that allows the human race to forget about all the Series 1-4 alien invasion shenanigans is a huge plus. I was never comfortable with the Earth-at-large knowing about all the Daleks etc. Made it hard to create convincing current-day episodes people could relate to.
- Jammy Dodger was a nice gag.
- Mad-hatter Churchill was fun.
Negatives
- Terrible writing.
- Terrible pacing.
- Half-arsed Star Wars rip-off.
- Half-arsed Iwo Jima rip-off ending (and this is entirely insulting, to be honest. Completely disrespectful to the imagery it was trying to invoke)
- Mad-hatter Churchill wasn't committed to enough to make it anything more than simply 'fun'.
- Pretty much a deus ex machina resolution of problem
- Deus Ex Machina reasons for Dalek's continued survival. Again.
- WWII/Dalek combo completely not taken to its potential.
Is Moffat doing the Angels 2 parter?
Positives:
- Dalek redesign is nice. Feels both fresh and retro at the same time. Good design work that.
- Introducing a plot mechanic that allows the human race to forget about all the Series 1-4 alien invasion shenanigans is a huge plus. I was never comfortable with the Earth-at-large knowing about all the Daleks etc. Made it hard to create convincing current-day episodes people could relate to.
- Jammy Dodger was a nice gag.
- Mad-hatter Churchill was fun.
Negatives
- Terrible writing.
- Terrible pacing.
- Half-arsed Star Wars rip-off.
- Half-arsed Iwo Jima rip-off ending (and this is entirely insulting, to be honest. Completely disrespectful to the imagery it was trying to invoke)
- Mad-hatter Churchill wasn't committed to enough to make it anything more than simply 'fun'.
- Pretty much a deus ex machina resolution of problem
the power of love defeats Dalek programming!
- WWII/Dalek combo completely not taken to its potential.
Is Moffat doing the Angels 2 parter?
Subliminal
Member
was fucking terrible.
the music was abysmal
complete fucking copout ending
another bloody miracle machine that magically responds to the doctors voice and produces loads of daleks (In suits, when we all know that an actual dalek would be a tentacle monster)
basically. fuck it. the first two episodes were great but I suppose it has to go shit eventually.
the music was abysmal
complete fucking copout ending
another bloody miracle machine that magically responds to the doctors voice and produces loads of daleks (In suits, when we all know that an actual dalek would be a tentacle monster)
basically. fuck it. the first two episodes were great but I suppose it has to go shit eventually.
Spirit of Jazz
Banned
Berkoff said:
What did you want them to build on exactly? The beginning of the episode was the introduction of the Dalek soldiers and the Doctor attempting to figure what was wrong (Not that the episode was good, I just don't think the pacing was the problem)
Subliminal
Member
Suairyu said:
the way I saw it was that Amy is gonna be another stupid cop out 'special' person that somehow didn't see anything and thats why she's causing all these cracks.
Mama Robotnik
Member
Some holes in it (which will probably become more blatant with repeated viewings) and certainly the weakest of the three so far.
On the plus side, I thought it was quite well acted and paced, and I had some fun watching it. It didn't have the boorish moments of the last Dalek two-parter, and it flowed okay.
Interesting that Moffat seems to be reseting all of RTD's Big Events.
Oh, and the game needs work, character animation needs to be at least HL2 good, please!
On the plus side, I thought it was quite well acted and paced, and I had some fun watching it. It didn't have the boorish moments of the last Dalek two-parter, and it flowed okay.
Interesting that Moffat seems to be reseting all of RTD's Big Events.
Oh, and the game needs work, character animation needs to be at least HL2 good, please!
jump_button
Banned
Good ep but did feel like it was only they to set up that the Daleks big come back for later ep or series. I hope next series hope the last eps are not the Daleks im a little sick of it now
APZonerunner
Member
Jexhius said:
Pretty sure there wasn't any repeated old music in there. What bit were you thinking of?
The only repeated music so far this series was in the Eleventh Hour; there was about three minutes of score from Journey's End when he's driving the fire engine.
Or Wirrn CGI I was quite let down last week, and even aside from Doctor Who I'd have Moffat's children for Press Gang alone.
But last week just seemed very blah to me, it just happened and aside from the Smilers there's nothing that really sticks to my memory.
This week just seemed a grand blend of the stuff Doctor Who has always done. I could have easily seen Tom Baker and Leela doing this same sort of story as written by Douglas Adams. It has the 'impossible choice', cheesy historical stuff, having fun with the setting.
It did what the Daleks in New York tried to do, except not utter shit.
Not to mention the Daleks make the ones from the Peter Cushing movies seem bland and colourless by comparison.
But last week just seemed very blah to me, it just happened and aside from the Smilers there's nothing that really sticks to my memory.
This week just seemed a grand blend of the stuff Doctor Who has always done. I could have easily seen Tom Baker and Leela doing this same sort of story as written by Douglas Adams. It has the 'impossible choice', cheesy historical stuff, having fun with the setting.
It did what the Daleks in New York tried to do, except not utter shit.
Not to mention the Daleks make the ones from the Peter Cushing movies seem bland and colourless by comparison.
APZonerunner
Member
Mama Robotnik said:
I wouldn't say all of them, but I think resetting the human awareness of Alien Invasions is absolutely necessary. It makes it difficult to tell modern-day stories.
Spirit of Jazz
Banned
Kuraudo said:
Is there any possible resolution to the cracks that Who GAF wouldn't whine about when it's revealed? :lol I like the idea of it affecting ever person on earth within that period. In the 3rd last episode they go around correcting Amy's cracks assuming it was her causing them, then when they head back home for her wedding the cracks are everywhere.
Keyser Soze
Member
People driving Daleks to the Top Gear theme... best thing ever!!
The story was good, at least interesting especially for a Darlek episode.
However why oh why oh why do you zoom in ON the obvious FUCKING theme of this season. First week they explain it, seond week they zoom in on it, this week they zoom in on it.
I'll give RTD one thing the Mr Saxon stuff was at least alot more subtle.
However why oh why oh why do you zoom in ON the obvious FUCKING theme of this season. First week they explain it, seond week they zoom in on it, this week they zoom in on it.
I'll give RTD one thing the Mr Saxon stuff was at least alot more subtle.
bobs...onGaf
Member
APZonerunner said:
It would be interesting to see a plot point which focused on a battle between the old and new Daleks. I know the technicalitys of the episode, but just saying it could happen.
Not too happy with the Daleks return, they will clearly be back as this was very much a introductary episode. Dr who this year has dissapointed me beyond the excellent 11th hour.
The plot element of Amy forgetting about the Daleks was cool though.
Not too happy with the Daleks return, they will clearly be back as this was very much a introductary episode. Dr who this year has dissapointed me beyond the excellent 11th hour.
The plot element of Amy forgetting about the Daleks was cool though.
Next week looks better.
APZonerunner said:
It was a nice touch acknowledging that the dalek DNA has got pretty messed up over the last few seasons, and the concept of 'aryan Daleks' was pretty nice. It strikes me that when there are two different distinct Dalek factions, they don't always get along, so we might be seeing some Dalek infighting in the future.
I think the point was that Bracewell had the ability to override the request from the Daleks, they just needed to convince him that he has enough humanity so the brain could take orders from itself rather than the mothership.
I'll admit, it's a bit of a leap, but it kinda appeals to me.
Not that bad an episode. For a Dalek episode anyway. It basically just meant the Daleks could be brought back without all the baggage from previous years, and it was fun enough to justify itself. I'm quite excited about the overall ark. In a way it's better it not being subtle, it's hard to believe tv viewers would pick up what the Doctor wouldn't.
New Daleks look like they were designed by Apple. They're Nanochromatic.
New Daleks look like they were designed by Apple. They're Nanochromatic.
bobs...onGaf
Member
RedShift said:
They looked like a Ipod range to me "Now comes in any colour you can think of!" :lol
I would love the cracks to be more subtle though, that type of approach always seems to go down better and always seems more special than having it rubbed in our faces.
I thought it was a great episode.
Cheesy Churchill, dsleks in green serving tea, the doctor being really nasty to the dsleks while everyone else is bewildered, doctor's testimony used to provee the 'unpure' daleks are true, fucking spitfires Vs UFO!, doctor not being able to stop the bomb but Amy helping again with her spin on things, Jammu dodger, he didn't create us, we created him + hand chop robot reveal.
I agree it was paced a little haphazardly but it was still very enjoyable.
Cheesy Churchill, dsleks in green serving tea, the doctor being really nasty to the dsleks while everyone else is bewildered, doctor's testimony used to provee the 'unpure' daleks are true, fucking spitfires Vs UFO!, doctor not being able to stop the bomb but Amy helping again with her spin on things, Jammu dodger, he didn't create us, we created him + hand chop robot reveal.
I agree it was paced a little haphazardly but it was still very enjoyable.
wind_steaker
Member
the cracks could be a bluff, there are lots of things - like the ducks, also I think every episode so far someone has had someone mentioning something "breaking their heart". I'm not sure if that could mean anything though.
APZonerunner
Member
Jexhius said:
Rewatching, there is a tiny bit of reused music, but it's a new arrangement of an old piece. Almost all the Dalek music is rearranged old stuff, but most specifically of all once the new models appear the motif used is the one from "Evolution of the Daleks", which is a nice touch.
Speaking of that episode...
Blader5489 said:
This underlines a problem the series has in general, which is the "checklist writing" - by which I mean RTD/Moffat hands the writer a list of things they want/need to accomplish their season arc/vision. Using only Dalek stories as an example...
Back for Evolution, Raynor was handed a list that said, almost literally - "Cult of Skaro, New York, Mutant Pig Men, Human Dalek, One 'pure' Dalek must escape and survive"
In this case, Confidential pretty much confirmed that Moffat too uses the list mechanic, as Gatiss says he was told "Daleks, World War 2, Churchill, Introduction of a New, pure Dalek design" and then "Spitfires in Space" was later added as on by Moffat. Judging by the comments on Confidential, Moffat also brainstormed alongside Gatiss for how many new types of Dalek there should be and their ranks.
The key problems with both stories seem to stem from those ideas in the checklist. Both Helen Raynor and Gaitiss accomplished the content of the lists relatively well, but the key problem with Evolution for me was the way the New York setting was used and those bloody awful Pig Men. I'll be fair, though - the Great Depression worked well for Daleks covertly enslaving unvalued humans and the Empire State building being used as a Lightning mast to kick start their plans was cool.
Likewise in this story, there's some cool stuff - great to see the Doctor meet Churchill, Daleks do fit the WW2 era well - especially the RTD era design - and WW2 is generally a great story but this episode could've been set bloody anywhere.
What I'm saying is that the episodes that have the shorter requirement lists always tend to be the best. Again, looking at only Dalek stories, look at Dalek. The only requirement there for Sherman from RTD was "introduce the Dalek, terrify children, establish it as an all-powerful killing machine, have it bring out the darker side of the Doctor, introduce Adam, talk about the time war and kill it at the end". By comparison these requirements are meagre. It's a better, cleaner story as a result, I think.
People always talk about Moffat's episodes being the best in the series in the RTD years, and part of that is down to Moffat's considerable talents but I strongly believe the other part is down to the fact that Moffat rarely had any real instructions. Series one all he was told was WW2 and to introduce Captain Jack, series two the only requirement was "this is Mickey's first trip in the TARDIS (and Mickey was quickly shoved aside), three was "this is the Doctor Lite episode" and four was "please add some Donna foreshadowing" - he was never weighed down with the weight of all the extra shit, ever.
This was still a great episode, and I don't think there's really been a bad Dalek episode in new Who anyway, but I think it provides some interesting food for thought on how the series is written. The only real way to get around this is to write the show by comittee, but when you look at shows that are (like 24, where writers sit in a room and work in a group of 4 or 5) it becomes awfully formulaic.
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