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[Jak140]

It begins. :lol :lol :lol Gotta love the Dems.

Oh come on. I made it clear that I wasn't buying it unless I heard confirmation from other people. I only posted that to see if anyone had heard anything similar. No harm in trying to stay informed.

Edit: Oh yeah, nice selective quoting, ass.

For anyone who just read Meier's post, here is the full message I posted:

I'm going to make it clear that I might be talking out of my ass here, but I've heard rumors that some people who used the electronic voting systems in Ohio ran into problems. Someone told me that two of his relatives in Ohio that voted Kerry ended up with reciepts that said they voted for Bush. Of course if this was really widespread (or even true), it would probably be on the news by now, so I'm pretty skeptical, but I thought I'd share it with you guys anyway. Has anyone else heard anything like this?

 

[Seth C]

About as undemocratic as invading another country then forcing democracy on them?

I'm sorry, how is that not democratic? Not nice, maybe? But not democratic? Last I checked they aren't part of our nation, so how do they get a vote in our democracy?

Seriously, I'm not saying I support the actions one way or the other, but this argument is tired, and makes absolutely no sense.

 

[Zaptruder]

It’s easy to see where this apathy comes from; say if I vote for Candidate A and a million other people vote for Candidate B, exactly what difference have I made? In this context, voting contrary to that of the general public regardless of whether or not they’re right or wrong is totally futile. Another reason for apathy is to consider the fact that the voting power of the most intelligent and educated intellectual is equal to that of the most easily manipulated and downright dumb redneck. And yet another reason is that the general public is so easily swayed by the corporate media, general public sentiment and downright blatant government propaganda that the whole 'democratic' system itself is far too easily corruptible and manipulated.

At the heart of the matter though, is not the one person one vote principle, the problem is the environment the democratic process takes place in itself, it is so terribly flawed that it tends toward corruption, manipulation and what has been referred to as tyranny of the majority. It also tends toward this general apathy from those who ask what the point of the exercise even is, that those in positions of power and influence can simply manipulate their way into positions of government based largely on the use of fear driven rhetoric and mindless propaganda with typically little grounding in reality; and to vote against such is to be a drop of rationality an ocean of brain-dead idiocy.

+

I meant people apathetic towards the candidates. Not the voting system.

I'm saying, those people seem so sure that either candidate would result in the same outcome. I'm asking them where I can get access to a machine that lets me travel to these alternative universes that let them check up on the differences candidates have made on the country and the world around them, that allows them to be so sure that they have very little difference.

More to the point, while the effects a candidate has may be subtle, it doesn't mean that he hasn't had affect. Indeed... if you don't think G.W.Bush has made much difference in the world in the last 4 years and will most likely to continue to do so (over his opposing candidate) then you need to become more informed.

 

[MetatronM]

Ann Coulter resonates with a smaller group of Democrats? And the Republicans can't tell the difference between moveon.org and Michael Moore? Hmm...

Yes, Ann Coulter does resonate with a smaller group of Democrats than Michael Moore does with Republicans. If for no other reason than the fact that Moore is more bombastic, in your face, and interjecting himself into pop culture. Coulter, on the other hand, is pretty much little more than a pundit. She has a loud mouth, but she's pretty much confined to political news shows, talk shows, and newspaper column, as opposed to Michael Moore, who runs commercials, makes nationally distributed movies, and appears at the Oscars.

So yes, I would say Ann Coulter does energize a significantly smaller group of Dams than Moore does with Republicans.

 

[MetatronM]

About as undemocratic as invading another country then forcing democracy on them?

Did people even read my post were I discuss how you can exercise your right not to vote?

I told you the right to not vote is very powerful for Americans.

 

[Zaptruder]

There's no forced voting system in australia.

We do have mandatory participation in the electoral process; people are required to turn up or provide a good excuse. But your right to refuse to vote is just as present here as it is in america; you simply drop in a blank ballot in as your vote.

 

[soepkip]

This is unbelievable. Americans are so fucking stupid.

 

[snapty00]

You know, I'm beginning to think Michael Moore isn't just an annoyance for Republicans. To be honest, I don't know many people who DO like him. :\ In my area at least (NC, which is traditionally a swing state), the general consensus among pretty much everyone is that Michael Moore is nothing more than a man with an overly zealous agenda.

 

[Do The Mario]

snapty00 Would you like the money saved on trying to entice people to vote spent on hospitals and schools in your area?


If I was running for President I would take all my parties money to the bookies and bet It on myself then I can shower the people with the cash when I win!

 

[nathkenn]

This is unbelievable. Americans are so fucking stupid.

correction:
This is unbelievable. Half of voting America is so fucking stupid.

 

[Matrix]

This is unbelievable. Americans are so fucking stupid.

Kiss my stupid ass.

 

[Dead]

correction:
This is unbelievable. Half of voting America is so fucking stupid.

51% to be precise.

 

[Tenguman]

Yes, Ann Coulter does resonate with a smaller group of Democrats than Michael Moore does with Republicans. If for no other reason than the fact that Moore is more bombastic, in your face, and interjecting himself into pop culture. Coulter, on the other hand, is pretty much little more than a pundit. She has a loud mouth, but she's pretty much confined to political news shows, talk shows, and newspaper column, as opposed to Michael Moore, who runs commercials, makes nationally distributed movies, and appears at the Oscars.

So yes, I would say Ann Coulter does energize a significantly smaller group of Dams than Moore does with Republicans.

agreed, and the fact that I said Kerry needed to sway the semi-bush people more than bush needed to sway the semi-democrat people

 

[Alcibiades]

Bush has just set a popular vote record besting Reagan, and Daschle has lost his Senate seat...

I'm content, but not overly giddy or explosively happy cause I know there are a lot of problems facing this country...

 

[Do The Mario]

We do have mandatory participation in the electoral process; people are required to turn up or provide a good excuse. But your right to refuse to vote is just as present here as it is in america; you simply drop in a blank ballot in as your vote.

Zap did you read what the I said, I posted several times if you don’t want to vote just get your name crossed off and refuse the slips they give you or drop in a blank ballot.

 

[cybamerc]

It's pretty embarrasing that a great nation like the USA can't hold a proper election. OSCE inspectors were even denied access to certain places. So much for the "greatest democracy on earth."

 

[norinrad21]

Its only for more years, its not exactly that long.

Its sort of ironic to see Americans vote for more of their sons and daughters to be slaughtered in Iraq, not to mension a place like Florida which has more soldiers in Iraq than any other state

 

[marko]

It's pretty embarrasing that a great nation like the USA can't hold a proper election. OSCE inspectors were even denied access to certain places. So much for the "greatest democracy on earth."

lol, election seemed to go pretty well to me.

 

[snapty00]

snapty00 Would you like the money saved on trying to entice people to vote spent on hospitals and schools in your area?

First of all, that wouldn't happen. The money would just be wasted elsewhere. It's naive to think anything else.

Second, I don't believe much -- if any -- money would be saved. You'd just be slapping a whole bunch of people with $25 fines who didn't know any better. So, you'd end up spending money educating all these people on their right not to vote (which, to them, is gonna sound ass-backwards, anyway).

Third, a lot of money spent would be spent anyway, because it's campaign money. That money was going to be spent whether voting was mandatory or not. Most of the ads that you see trying to get people to vote in general (regardless of candidate) are not government-paid. That's usually private, whether from a candidate or even something like MTV. If you have a beef with their ads, then you need to take it up with them.

Finally, forced voting goes against the nature of the whole system. Voting is a right, not a duty.

 

[Kiriku]

There's no forced voting system in australia.

We do have mandatory participation in the electoral process; people are required to turn up or provide a good excuse. But your right to refuse to vote is just as present here as it is in america; you simply drop in a blank ballot in as your vote.

Voting blank isn't the same thing as not voting at all though. I voted blank in the previous election here in Sweden. My vote basically said that I wanted to vote and make a difference, and that I didn't like any of the options made available for me. Had I not voted, my opinion would never have been registered.

However, I can see, with a mandatory participation system, that a blank vote could mean "no vote" if you have no choice.

 

[Zaptruder]

Zap did you read what the I said, I posted several times if you don’t want to vote just get your name crossed off and refuse the slips they give you or drop in a blank ballot.

No. I didn't skim over that. I just saw alot of people crying: WAH WAH WE HAVE A RIGHT TO NOT VOTE!

 

[Kon Tiki]

If anyone still cares, Wisconsin is now Kerry. 254-252. Noone wants to claim Iowa or NM, for Bush, as that would put Bush over 270. So it looks like Iowa and NM will be at 99% till Ohio is final.

 

[Zaptruder]

Voting blank isn't the same thing as not voting at all though. I voted blank in the previous election here in Sweden. My vote basically said that I wanted to vote and make a difference, and that I didn't like any of the options made available for me. Had I not voted, my opinion would never have been registered.

However, I can see, with a mandatory participation system, that a blank vote could mean "no vote" if you have no choice.

Hmmm. in terms of real effects the blank protest vote is just a gimmick for the person to feel better. You can pretend that they'll acknowledge that you didn't like the choices in a mandatory system if that makes you feel better.

 

[snapty00]

However, I can see, with a mandatory participation system, that a blank vote could mean "no vote" if you have no choice.

Or, you might have a bunch of people just putting whatever candidate that can get to the fastest, just so they can put something down.

 

[XMonkey]

I find it funny that Fox and NBC are in quite a pickle as far as reporting states. Nevada looks clearly Bush (going by Yahoo's numbers), but NBC and Fox refuse to call it because it would claim Bush the winner, can't have that yet. And of course, they can't take Ohio back because that's 2000 all over again.

 

[MetatronM]

All right, I'm tapping out.

Smashing vitory all around for the Republicans, I thought the Dems were in trouble after 200, and this really proved it. They got destroyed in every respect now with firm control and strong majorities in the White House, House, Senate, and surely the Supreme Court by the time 2008 rolls around. And not only that but they defeated the Democrat's Presidential candidate convincingly in the popular vote, AND they ousted the Democratic leader in Congress. That's about as close as you can get to a clean sweep, and I don't think anybody expected such a dominant overall victory across the boards for the Republicans given the polarized nature of the country.

Oh well. Hopefully Bush doesn't do anything too wildly stupid during the next 4 years. :/

Night all.

 

[Do The Mario]

First of all, that wouldn't happen. The money would just be wasted elsewhere. It's naive to think anything else.

Great to see the system works.

Yes the campaigns are funded by the parties, but the money still could be used in a much more resourceful manner.

 

[impirius]

I find it funny that Fox and NBC are in quite a pickle as far as reporting states. Nevada looks clearly Bush (going by Yahoo's numbers), but NBC and Fox refuse to call it because it would claim Bush the winner, can't have that yet. And of course, they can't take Ohio back because that's 2000 all over again.

Yeah... I'm getting seriously pissed off about this. Don't just sit there at 269 for Bush because it's "good TV"... Nevada is obviously going for Bush. If you want to move Ohio back into the "too close to call" category, go ahead, but for crying out loud, don't fudge on calling states for the sake of drama.

 

[MetatronM]

If anyone still cares, Wisconsin is now Kerry. 254-252. Noone wants to claim Iowa or NM, for Bush, as that would put Bush over 270. So it looks like Iowa and NM will be at 99% till Ohio is final.

Well, nobody is counting Iowa because they have shut down for the night in Iowa. They had problems with the counting machines, their staff was tired and it was too much for the system, so they quit for the night before they finished the count.

EDIT: I'm really going to bed now.

 

[Kiriku]

Hmmm. in terms of real effects the blank protest vote is just a gimmick for the person to feel better. You can pretend that they'll acknowledge that you didn't like the choices in a mandatory system if that makes you feel better.

Yeah OK, but in a system where you have a choice, I think a blank vote represents an opinion that you choose to express. If you don't vote, noone will ever know your opinion. Maybe you liked party A, maybe party B, maybe you didn't like any of them? Or maybe you didn't spend enough time to even make a choice? If you choose to vote blank, taking your time to actually vote, I think there's a high possibility you've at least thought about the choices available. After all, actually taking time to vote seems to be a very demanding task for most people when you consider the high % of people not voting.

 

[DSN2K]

I fell asleep what hell has been going on ? Bush won yet ? :lol

 

[Bizarro Sun Yat-sen]

I think the government should pay people to vote. Since the money would have to come out of everyone's taxes it would be substantially the same as mandatory voting with fines for those who don't comply, but with a nice positive spin.

 

[Tenguman]

If anyone still cares, Wisconsin is now Kerry. 254-252. Noone wants to claim Iowa or NM, for Bush, as that would put Bush over 270. So it looks like Iowa and NM will be at 99% till Ohio is final.

Even if Bush got Iowa and NM, he still wouldn't have 270

It comes down to Ohio

 

[Pug]

In the UK the coverage of this election has probably been just as big as it would be for our own elections! My view is not worth much because I'm not American but it seems to me that the Democrat’s went with Kerry because they thought he could bring them the White House without really needing to challenge Bush with Policies and new Ideas. My politics are probably left of centre and that means that Kerry should have been my choice if I were American, problem is I would have found it difficult to vote for him, I just don't think he would have done anything better or differently from Bush. To earn the right to govern he really should have come up with a bold plan to move America forward in unison with countries which are willing to follow.
I've been to America on numerous occasions and have enjoyed myself every time and most Europeans feel the same way, we may not like your politics or some of your go alone policies but its still a great place with mostly very friendly people.

Politicians don't make a country the people do.

 

[Kon Tiki]

Even if Bush got Iowa and NM, he still wouldn't have 270

It comes down to Ohio

When I say 'noone' I mean FoxNews and NBC, since they already gave Ohio to Bush.

 

[Kettch]

Ohio is back down to 139,000.

 

[Fresh Prince]

It's funny seeing Aussie's taking the high ground.
We may not have the 'problem' of the 'redneck religious right' vote but what we did have was a bunch of selfish assholes who put the shape our econmony above the needs of the environment, education, the 'war on terror' (none of our soldiers got killed so it's alright) and true class progress(welfare, saying sorry etc).
The sad fact is that they think that sole factor of our economy is government policy.

 

[Rorschach]

My view is not worth much...

IAWTP

 

[Koshiro]

Oh now WTF. I just woke up. WTF is America thinking?!

 

[impirius]

Aaaaaaaaaaaargh, screw you networks! There's no realistic way that Kerry will take Ohio, so CALL IT. Bush is obviously going to take Nevada; CALL IT. Say what everyone already knows! It's painfully obvious that nobody wants to be the first to call this election for fear of getting egg on their faces, but for crying out loud, that doesn't justify artificially delaying calls just so nobody reaches 270 electoral votes.

 

[cybamerc]

Oh now WTF. I just woke up. WTF is America thinking?!

I know what you mean. When I was going to bed all was looking good. Not so when I woke up.

 

[Do The Mario]

It's funny seeing Aussie's taking the high ground.
We may not have the 'problem' of the 'redneck religious right' vote but what we did have was a bunch of selfish assholes who put the shape our econmony above the needs of the environment, education, the 'war on terror' (none of our soldiers got killed so it's alright) and true class progress(welfare, saying sorry etc).
The sad fact is that they think that sole factor of our economy is government policy.

I’m not saying our government is perfect, it would be virtually impossible for me to agree with every decision our government made.

However some issues from the last election

- The government Introduced Medicare plus a 80% rebate for out of hand medical expenses
- The government has an outstanding economic record, with strong fiscal policies.
- Employment has increased by over 1 million


Hecs as been increased but is now more finically viable.

I don’t agree with the Australian Governments support of the war on terror however unlike the US government our government has performed well on domestic issues.

 

[SFA_AOK]

Grr, things looked good for Kerry when I went to bed last night...

What are people's thoughts on the votes in Congress? I'm at work atm so I can't do too much surfing to find out how bad the situation is for the democrats...

 

[Kabuki Waq]

I know what you mean. When I was going to bed all was looking good. Not so when I woke up.

yea i guess fear mongering really works.

 

[gofreak]

The issue is that as long as there is an outside chance, the Dems at least can't really concede defeat. Kerry needs roughly two thirds of the uncounted votes in Ohio to win. The chances of that happening are slim, but it's enough for them to insist on a final result before declaring it over. As for the networks..they may have a policy about probabilities etc. and perhaps this one is just within their realm of possibility to keep it "open".

 

[Kon Tiki]

yea i guess fear mongering really works.

Haven't you learned that from Y2K?

 

[iapetus]

Breaking news just in: THE TERRORISTS HAVE WON.

 

[norinrad21]

according to reuters

http://www.reuters.com/newsArticle.jhtml?type=businessNews&storyID=6699007

 

[iapetus]

On a mildly serious note, let's assume that Kerry wins Ohio, and scrapes a victory, but loses the popular vote. What does this mean for his legitimacy as president?

 

[Kseutron]

kerry isn't gonna win ohio anyway, this is so obvious now... :/