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OFFICIAL ELECTION THREAD MEANS ALL ELECTION-RELATED STUFF GOES IN HERE, DUR
- Thread starter Mandark
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ErasureAcer
Banned
www.nov3.us
I don't believe Bush won. How? How? values? We have a staggering economy, a guy who hates us, a stupid ass war and we're voting on stem cell research? I honestly don't believe the American people are THAT stupid.
Bush cheated. I have no specific data on how but they cheated. Diebold, challenges, registration...a combination of all of them...they have cheated. No way has this MORON gotten the most votes ever on VALUES! I don't believe it.
I don't believe Bush won. How? How? values? We have a staggering economy, a guy who hates us, a stupid ass war and we're voting on stem cell research? I honestly don't believe the American people are THAT stupid.
Bush cheated. I have no specific data on how but they cheated. Diebold, challenges, registration...a combination of all of them...they have cheated. No way has this MORON gotten the most votes ever on VALUES! I don't believe it.
MightyHedgehog
Member
Pug said:
Exactly. Unfortunately, we, as Americans, have little *real* choice in who we get to vote for...thanks to ridiculously constrictive partisan politics...lesser of the two evils sort of thing, IMO. I vote on issues and not by party-affiliation, but it's difficult to do so if the candidates available are generally never to my liking. The problem with being a republic, as we are, is that we are almost too detached from the so-called leaders that we put in office to govern things...our government needs some long-overdue fine-tuning. Ack...tired of watching the fucking election...I probably don't make much sense, but it always seems fucked-up somehow to me.
Late Stage Marxist
Member
Or fighting fire with fire.DeadStar said:
Fresh Prince
Banned
All very well and good however:Do The Mario said:
- The States and Federal Governemt continue to bicker over Hospital Funding-still. The private healthcare rebate seems to be getting worse not better.
- Economically the distinction differiating Labour and Liberal would not be that 'adverse' to Australia's econmy.
- We got ass raped by America in the FTA
- More than 1/2 of 'new' Employment created in the last 16 years is casual.
- The Government talks about the 'baby bonus' etc, but $3000 does not make ammends for the third largest hours of unpaid overtime of any country in the world, lack of job security etc.
- Some of the rhethoric concerning Tertiary Education is worrying. Apparently the Coalition wants to re-shape wages for Lecturers (not so bad) but want to dictate to Universities what to specialise in.
MightyHedgehog
Member
iapetus said:
Nothing... I seriously don't even know why the popular vote is even tracked anymore. It doesn't mean shit, thanks to the fucked-up, outmoded electoral college system.
Arguments about voter disenfranchisement aside, there's really little doubt that Bush won this election. I hope, unrealistically, that people in high places in both parties gain some fucking common sense before the next election. That means Democrats need to get their shit together and Republicans need to get off the goddamn war drum, start spending within our means, and quit pandering to the religious right. I don't fear a predominantly Republican government, but I do fear a predominantly socially conservative one. This recurrent trend towards suppressing and oppressing the minorty is scary, and disturbing considering that it is being carried out by politicians who should know better. Of course this is nothing new, but I sometimes wish we could take two steps forward without taking a step and a half back anyway.
But, really, what I find most depressing about this election is the realization of how easily people (of all parties) can be manipulated. The truth is most voting Americans are ignorant of the issues and depend on what they are told to vote for, rather than making their own decisions based on research. As long as the majority of American voters remain uninformed, the winners will be the people who can manipulate the most blind followers. My hope is that one day people will care enough to seek the truth, and that those that do won't be greeted by lies. Of course this will only happen when everyone's shit starts getting wrecked, because otherwise they'll continue to be perfectly content in their ignorant bliss. But maybe even that is too hopeful. Even though 9/11 made some people raise questions about the way our government is run, it resulted in even more wrapping themselves up in blind patriotisim. If there is a hope for the future, it is in education; I just hope that there is money left for it after another term of the Bush presidency.
Edit: I apologize for my disjointed prose and grammar; I just needed to purge that from my system. It's late here on the West Coast, and I need sleep.
But, really, what I find most depressing about this election is the realization of how easily people (of all parties) can be manipulated. The truth is most voting Americans are ignorant of the issues and depend on what they are told to vote for, rather than making their own decisions based on research. As long as the majority of American voters remain uninformed, the winners will be the people who can manipulate the most blind followers. My hope is that one day people will care enough to seek the truth, and that those that do won't be greeted by lies. Of course this will only happen when everyone's shit starts getting wrecked, because otherwise they'll continue to be perfectly content in their ignorant bliss. But maybe even that is too hopeful. Even though 9/11 made some people raise questions about the way our government is run, it resulted in even more wrapping themselves up in blind patriotisim. If there is a hope for the future, it is in education; I just hope that there is money left for it after another term of the Bush presidency.
Edit: I apologize for my disjointed prose and grammar; I just needed to purge that from my system. It's late here on the West Coast, and I need sleep.
Fresh Prince
Banned
:lol It starts.....ErasureAcer said:
Get over it, plan for Clinton\Obama2008, capture the 'American Heartland' as a Republican put it.
Kerry would have to get something like 77% of those provisional votes to win Ohio...
And I know I've said some harsh things in this thread. Back in 2000, I didn't really care. When 9/11 happened, I thought (and still think) Bush did an excellent job raising morale and brought everyone together. I believed his claims about Iraq. Then we began learning that we'd been fed lies... Someone at the CIA's cover was blown... The economy went down the shitter. Jobs were being created, but with less average income (as we were still losing jobs). We seemed to be driving backwards as we shifted more and more to the right (ban gay marriage, stem cell research, etc- I'm a Christian- not devout, but I don't think the government has the right to decide over moral issues like this and then allow the murder of soldiers in Iraq). I was ALL FOR BUSH in 2000-2001, but around 2003, that turned all the way the fuck around, and I can't believe he and his fucked up administration have been able to get away with as much as they have. And I can't believe that so many people did not see this.
We're back to where we were in 2000. The country is divided, yet this time, people STILL hate Bush. He's going to have to work five times as hard to unite the country (I hope that doesn't mean an attack on it five times the scale as 9/11 :\).
And I know I've said some harsh things in this thread. Back in 2000, I didn't really care. When 9/11 happened, I thought (and still think) Bush did an excellent job raising morale and brought everyone together. I believed his claims about Iraq. Then we began learning that we'd been fed lies... Someone at the CIA's cover was blown... The economy went down the shitter. Jobs were being created, but with less average income (as we were still losing jobs). We seemed to be driving backwards as we shifted more and more to the right (ban gay marriage, stem cell research, etc- I'm a Christian- not devout, but I don't think the government has the right to decide over moral issues like this and then allow the murder of soldiers in Iraq). I was ALL FOR BUSH in 2000-2001, but around 2003, that turned all the way the fuck around, and I can't believe he and his fucked up administration have been able to get away with as much as they have. And I can't believe that so many people did not see this.
We're back to where we were in 2000. The country is divided, yet this time, people STILL hate Bush. He's going to have to work five times as hard to unite the country (I hope that doesn't mean an attack on it five times the scale as 9/11 :\).
Particle Physicist
between a quark and a baryon
soepkip said:
i absolutely hate this attitude people have been taking these elections.
im anti-bush.. but calling someone and idiot cause they are pro-bush is completely closed-minded
I understand that iraq is not the only issue on the minds of americans.. i understand that people.. well educated or not, can have differing opinions... i also understand that my opinion is not necessarily in the best interest of the majority (though it can be).. and i understand that free minded people are allowed to make up their own damn minds.
Do The Mario
Unconfirmed Member
Fresh Prince said:
The FTA was a positive for the Australian economy what the hell are you smoking?
Please tell me how we got ass raped.
500,000 casual jobs is a great achievement, many small businesses cant afford full or part time employees.
Personally I have two casual jobs because I am a full time university student and I dont have the time to work full time.
The federal government is not talking about hospital funding but MEDICARE, they are two vastly different things.
The labour party trys to make hospitals and schools a federal issue but they are state issues. My jobs might be abolished under the labour partys reforms.
Particle Physicist
between a quark and a baryon
they really have to change the absentee/provisional ballot due dates so that they can be counted before or on election night.. its a little ridiculous to have a week long waiting period. :/
Particle Physicist
between a quark and a baryon
Society said:
by uneducated i meant those who havent completed college or even high school..
you can still be smart and not finished either (there are always extenuating circumstances)
One of the problems with that is that a provisional ballot is designed to serve in place of a regular ballot should something go wrong on election day. I.E. someone who is registered to vote is not on the voter's list at their polling place, or their ballot gets accidentally destroyed, lost, or they go to the wrong polling place, etc. So there's really no way to count those early.quadriplegicjon said:
soundwave05
Member
I think the reason some people find it disenchanting is because this is the first time I can think of in American history where America went to war under a pretense which turned out to be false (weapons of mass destruction).
Now whether that was faulty intelligence or not, it's still arguably the biggest blunder of American foreign policy in history and it falls squarely on the president's shoulders.
Yet the guy gets re-elected anyway. I think Bush took advantage of the post-9/11 paranoia and did it well.
Anyways, that said, I think its over. There's no way Kerry is going to make up those kinds of numbers off provisional ballots.
Now whether that was faulty intelligence or not, it's still arguably the biggest blunder of American foreign policy in history and it falls squarely on the president's shoulders.
Yet the guy gets re-elected anyway. I think Bush took advantage of the post-9/11 paranoia and did it well.
Anyways, that said, I think its over. There's no way Kerry is going to make up those kinds of numbers off provisional ballots.
MightyHedgehog
Member
soundwave05 said:
I agree 100% with this.
Alcibiades
Member
while America went to war under a false pretense, it also went to war under true pretenses, like Saddam's UN violations, refusal to provide evidence to inspectors about wherabouts of weapons (or former weapons), payments to families of Palestinian suicide bombers, and human rights issues...soundwave05 said:
Weapons of mass destruction were the major issue, but it wasn't everything... I think Americans realize that...
soundwave05
Member
The war in Iraq was entirely about weapons of mass destruction.
Several of the US' allies are guilty of UN and human rights violations (Saudi Arabia pops into mind for starters). To top that off, the UN didn't even back the war.
It is definitely the biggest blunder in U.S. foreign policy as far as I'm concerned, the country has never gone to war primarily for a particular reason only to find out afterwards that the stated reason was non-existant.
Fear makes it easy to manipulate people though. Bush saw his chance and he jumped on it. To his credit he got away with it, too.
Several of the US' allies are guilty of UN and human rights violations (Saudi Arabia pops into mind for starters). To top that off, the UN didn't even back the war.
It is definitely the biggest blunder in U.S. foreign policy as far as I'm concerned, the country has never gone to war primarily for a particular reason only to find out afterwards that the stated reason was non-existant.
Fear makes it easy to manipulate people though. Bush saw his chance and he jumped on it. To his credit he got away with it, too.
f_elz said:
Laugh all you want, but I'm not pulling this out my ass. Reports all over TV and the internet all make it very clear that it will be very difficult for Kerry to pull off a win in Ohio. If the margin was more around 80k in Bush's favor with 100% reporting, I might be inclined to think he could have a decent chance...but, the margin is 136k in Bush's favor.
Alcibiades
Member
I noticied this too...XMonkey said:
Stats galore, sorry if posted already but some really interesting stuff here:
http://www.cnn.com/ELECTION/2004/pages/results/states/US/P/00/epolls.0.html
http://www.cnn.com/ELECTION/2004/pages/results/states/US/P/00/epolls.0.html
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