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Official Madden '10 Xbox 360 Online Franchise: A World Without Favre

DenogginizerOS

BenjaminBirdie's Thomas Jefferson
I propose the following modification of option #3:

A) One of the cuts has to be above an 80 (or less like 78). The final total has to equal 230 but it can go higher. One can choose to keep their cuts secret if they are trying to get a better player. If you choose to go higher, see part B) below.

B) The person who goes over 230 the most gets to pick first in the first round of the FA Draft. The person who gives up the second most gets to go second. And so on. Tie-breakers are resolved by names in a hat until all 32 teams are in an order. This will essentially account for value and will allow players that give up the most a chance to get back the most. One key point: A person can select any of the players they choose to let go. So, if you weight your FA total on the heavy side with a really high player, you can possibly shed some lesser talent, get that player back, and still have a decent shot at getting some talent back. The risk is someone else risks a little more and perhaps takes your best player. This creates a risk/reward situtation, it creates a pseudo-value system, and it creates drama and suspense. Essentially, it recreates the scenario of "I lost my best player to Free Agency!".

C) The remaining two rounds of the FA draft will go like this:
2nd Round: The College Draft Order. 1-32 or we just invert the FA order of round 1.
3rd Round: Invert the college draft. 32-1 or we revert back to round 1 of the FA order.

D) What if in addition to my proposal above, we gave players an option to opt out of free agency altogether? They don't give up any players, but they can't select any players either until after the trade deadline during the regular season or if they have an injury that has to be addressed.

I propose the following schedule for off-season events:

1) We make cuts. You submit it via PM to FMT with the three players, their positions, their individual points, the total, and the amount you go over 230, if at all.

2) We have the FA Draft.

3) We have the college draft.

I propose we do the FA Draft on Sunday and then we can do the college draft during the week or the following weekend.
 

Birdman02

Member
My vote is for option #3, but I'd be ok with sticking with option #1.

I won't be able to check my progression until after work today. Hopefully, none of my guys had any big drops.
 

Nightz

Member
I was tempted to make Shayne Graham one of my drop players, but after seeing what's available at kicker (and the vultures that some of you are!), I had to re-think it. :lol

As for the whole free agency thing, I'm fine with the original plan, but option #3 looks like a decent choice as well.
 

dskillzhtown

keep your strippers out of my American football
WOW Stafford is up to a 84 OVR. I think he started last season as a 76. Calvin Johnson is now a 97, Kevin Smith is up to a 86 (How, I have no idea), my TE Pettigrew is at 86 also.

With that said, those are the ONLY people on my team over 80. So I really don't want to have to get rid of any of them. The Lions would be even worse off.
 

DenogginizerOS

BenjaminBirdie's Thomas Jefferson
dskillzhtown said:
WOW Stafford is up to a 84 OVR. I think he started last season as a 76. Calvin Johnson is now a 97, Kevin Smith is up to a 86 (How, I have no idea), my TE Pettigrew is at 86 also.

With that said, those are the ONLY people on my team over 80. So I really don't want to have to get rid of any of them. The Lions would be even worse off.
What if one of the players had to be a 77 or higher?
 

daw840

Member
dskillzhtown said:
WOW Stafford is up to a 84 OVR. I think he started last season as a 76. Calvin Johnson is now a 97, Kevin Smith is up to a 86 (How, I have no idea), my TE Pettigrew is at 86 also.

With that said, those are the ONLY people on my team over 80. So I really don't want to have to get rid of any of them. The Lions would be even worse off.

Just remember, you will be able to pick up someone of the same caliber in the draft.
 

Wellington

BAAAALLLINNN'
daw840 said:
Just remember, you will be able to pick up someone of the same caliber in the draft.
In this situation I can't agree with that. Can't ask him to drop Calvin for obvious reasons, and asking him to drop what would be a second year player because he did well with them would be unfair.

How much better would this freakin be if progression were quarterly like in offline franchises. It's cool seeing players improve, but once a year at the end of the year sucks!
 

dskillzhtown

keep your strippers out of my American football
DenogginizerOS said:
What if one of the players had to be a 77 or higher?


75-77 would be a lot better in my situation. I need to get line help (as anyone who played the Lions last year can attest to. So having to use a top pick to replace an offensive player instead would just have me spinning my wheels. For me, cutting one of the three people I have over 80 would be pretty shitty.
 

daw840

Member
Wellington said:
In this situation I can't agree with that. Can't ask him to drop Calvin for obvious reasons, and asking him to drop what would be a second year player because he did well with them would be unfair.

How much better would this freakin be if progression were quarterly like in offline franchises. It's cool seeing players improve, but once a year at the end of the year sucks!

Absolutely. I would be really pissed too if my only option to drop was AP. Quarterly progression does seem better.
 

DenogginizerOS

BenjaminBirdie's Thomas Jefferson
dskillzhtown said:
75-77 would be a lot better in my situation. I need to get line help (as anyone who played the Lions last year can attest to. So having to use a top pick to replace an offensive player instead would just have me spinning my wheels. For me, cutting one of the three people I have over 80 would be pretty shitty.
What if in addition to my proposal above, we gave players an option to opt out of free agency altogether? They don't give up any players, but they can't select any players either until after the trade deadline during the reualr season or if they have an injury that has to be addressed.
 

dskillzhtown

keep your strippers out of my American football
daw840 said:
What about at LEAST 3 players, ranked above 75, totaling 230 OVR points?


230 OVR and one player has to be over 77 would work for me. But then the teams with uber talent wouldn't have to make any painful cuts and get even better and the good/bad gap would get even wider. Not sure there is any 100% right method for this.
 

daw840

Member
dskillzhtown said:
230 OVR and one player has to be over 77 would work for me. But then the teams with uber talent wouldn't have to make any painful cuts and get even better and the good/bad gap would get even wider. Not sure there is any 100% right method for this.

It is beginning to look that way. Everyone will never be happy with the system we implement.

Let's stop the discussion altogether. Just have a strict vote on the options FMT has proposed. Just post what number 1, 2, 3, or 4

I'll Start:

#3
 

DenogginizerOS

BenjaminBirdie's Thomas Jefferson
daw840 said:
It is beginning to look that way. Everyone will never be happy with the system we implement.

Let's stop the discussion altogether. Just have a strict vote on the options FMT has proposed. Just post what number 1, 2, 3, or 4

I'll Start:

#3
How do you propose we choose the FA draft order?
 

daw840

Member
DenogginizerOS said:
How do you propose we choose the FA draft order?

I figured we could decide that after the first decision.

Personally, snake style draft with college draft positions for the first round.
 

LiveWire

Member
Jesus Christ, I know the Redskins game was boring but 4 pages of discussion overnight? I check the thread close to 5PM and now this morning, wtf?

Why is there so much handwringing? Fucking man up and cut people, you whiny bitches. You'll get someone useful back, and if you don't, it's because you probably made the playoffs. BOO-FUCKING-HOO, crybaby.

Anyway, what is the final decision from the commishes? I don't really care if it's a point system or an 80+ and two 75+s, I'll do whatever. Just FMT or Fifty please let me know so I can get you my list before the draft.

In other news, fortunately, I recorded all of the Redskins' player stats and attributes prior to FMT's advance. Here's the progression of everyone that is over 70:

OFFENSE

Clinton Portis (RB) (remained exactly the same at 93 OVR, all attributes the same)

Chris Cooley (TE) (upgraded from 91 to 92 OVR, all attributes the same)

Mike Sellers (FB) (remained exactly the same at 89 OVR, all attributes the same)

Chris Samuels (LT) (dropped 6 points from 93 to 87 OVR, STR, AWR and pass/run blocking skills down a few points)

Randy Thomas (RG) (dropped 5 points from 89 to 84 OVR, same drops as Samuels)

Santana Moss (WR) (dropped 2 points from 86 to 84 OVR, all attributes the same except 2 point SPD drop)

Jason Campbell (QB) (upgraded from 77 to 78 OVR, 1 pt AWR drop, 1 pt increase in Throw Accurary across the board)

Derrick Dockery (LG) (dropped 1 pt from 78 to 77 OVR, all attributes the same)

Casey Rabach (C) (same-76 OVR)

Devin Thomas (WR) (upgraded 6 points from 70 to 76 OVR, 2-5 point attribute increases across the board)

Antwaan Randle El (WR) (same-75 OVR)

Stephon Heyer (RT) (upgraded from 70 to 73 OVR, modest attribute increases)

Jeremy Bridges (RT) (same-72 OVR)

Chad Rinehart (RG) (upgraded from 67 to 71 OVR, modest attribute increases)

Ladell Betts (RB) (dropped 2 points from 72 to 70 OVR, modest attribute decreases)

And even though they're not 70 OVR, Marko Mitchell and Malcolm Kelly both increased 6 points from 63 OVR to 69 OVR with modest attribute increases.


DEFENSE

Albert Haynesworth (DT) (dropped 1 pt from 99 to 98 OVR, very minor attribute decreases)

London Fletcher (MLB) (dropped 2 pts from 89 to 87 OVR, minor attribute decreases)

LaRon Landry (FS) (same-86 OVR)

Carlos Rogers (CB) (dropped 2 pts from 87 to 85 OVR, minor attribute decreases) WTF eff you Madden

Cornelius Griffin -age 34- (droppped only 1 pt from 84 to 83 OVR, very minor attribute decreases)

Brian Orakpo (LOLB) (upgraded 6 points from 76 to 82 OVR, good attribute increases across the board)

DeAngelo Hall (CB) (upgraded 1 point from 79 to 80 OVR, better MAN and ZCV ratings)

Chris Horton (SS) (upgraded 6 points from 73 to 79 OVR, good attribute increases across the board)

Andre Carter (DE) (dropped 6 points from 84 to 78 OVR, major attribute decreases)

Rocky McIntosh (ROLB) (same-77 OVR) Led the Redskins in INTs (6), 3rd (tied) in sacks (3), 5th in tackles...... ?

Kareem Moore (FS) (upgraded 6 points from 65 to 71 OVR, major attribute increases)

Notable retirements: Philip Daniels (DE), Ethan Albright (LS,C) and Matt Stover (K)


At first I would have agreed with Rors comments about progression basically being rookie/young guys getting big increases, but it's all over the place.

Kareem Moore is the same age as DeAngelo Hall (27), got a 5 pt bigger increase. DeAngelo had twice as many FRs and INTs, (1 each for TD) and a sack.

Andre Carter (age 32) is younger than Cornelius Griffin (age 34), yet had 2 more tackles and 2 more FRs (though 2 less sacks), and lost 6 points, and Cornelius only dropped 1.

And that's not even considering Jason Campbell getting UPGRADED 1 point for throwing 9 TDs and 20 INTs.

Craziness. Overall though, I'm pretty happy, my defense is improved (Orakpo :D), and my offense is mostly the same. My draft priorities are easy, and with free agency I could make some big improvements.
 

Smokey

Member
DenogginizerOS said:
How do you propose we choose the FA draft order?

I think the draft order should somehow be random? Otherwise those of us who made it into the playoffs are getting hit for having a low draft position AND getting screwed in the FA draft as well.

Doesn't seem all that fair to penalize those of us who had some success in the playoffs in the FA pool. Draft order is understandable. That's just how it is is in all sports. I'm just talking about some type of solution that is fair for everyone with regards to the FA pool.
 
Come on people

Shaking things up is fun, sports without free agency is a boring thing

If there is no free agency, might as well re-assign all the teams randomly

Some teams are clearly stacked compared to others, how is this fair to the owners of the "crappy" teams?
 

daw840

Member
Smokey said:
I think the draft order should somehow be random? Otherwise those of us who made it into the playoffs are getting hit for having a low draft position AND getting screwed in the FA draft as well.

Doesn't seem all that fair to penalize those of us who had some success in the playoffs in the FA pool. Draft order is understandable. That's just how it is is in all sports. I'm just talking about some type of solution that is fair for everyone with regards to the FA pool.

We should require the Super Bowl winner to cut their highest rated player.
 

AirBrian

Member
If everyone cuts good players, everyone will get good players back. It's not like they go into some FA abyss never to be seen again.
 

Lonestar

I joined for Erin Brockovich discussion
That's ok, but there are some players that could foreseeably garner alot more in trade value, than you would ever get back in a FA draft.
 

LukeSmith

Member
Fifty said:
There will be a FA draft for the players cut. Worst team picks first, best record (or SB winner, whatever) picks last. Annoying for FMT to organize, but it has to be done.

Yeah, because awesome free agents want to go right to shitty, non-contending teams. :lol

terrell-owens-makes-the-announcement-that-hes-now-a-buffalo-bills-player-james-p-mccoy-buffalo-news.jpg


I'm sorry, LJ
 

Rorschach

Member
LukeSmith said:
Yeah, because awesome free agents want to go right to shitty, non-contending teams. :lol
I want a random hat drawing for FA draft, but most FAs chase money until their careers start winding down and they want glory. Some recent "awesome" FAs that went to shitty teams:

Albert Haynesworth
Drew Brees
Nnamdi Asomugha
Terrell Owens
TJ Houshmandzadeh
 

dskillzhtown

keep your strippers out of my American football
I withdraw my complaint about the 80/230 rule. Let's just go with that. I am sure I can get a good replacement for the players I let go.

cut atleast three players, one over 80 and the total being atleast 230.

Now, with that being done, will the game automatically remove the 7 lowest rated players before the draft?
 

daw840

Member
It's the off-season so we should be able to have a roster bigger than 55 men right? I mean, I don't fucking want the damn CPU to cut players for me. I want to go through the College and FA draft and see where I have depth and cut as needed.
 

DenogginizerOS

BenjaminBirdie's Thomas Jefferson
I think the FA draft should not be determined by performance. If not my proposed system, then at the very least the FA draft order should be random with the order inverting after each round. Players with great teams, talent wise, that perform poorly should not be rewarded with college picks and FA picks. FA is about money and value, not about rights to choose based on record and performance.
 

Wellington

BAAAALLLINNN'
Smokey said:
I think the draft order should somehow be random? Otherwise those of us who made it into the playoffs are getting hit for having a low draft position AND getting screwed in the FA draft as well.

Doesn't seem all that fair to penalize those of us who had some success in the playoffs in the FA pool. Draft order is understandable. That's just how it is is in all sports. I'm just talking about some type of solution that is fair for everyone with regards to the FA pool.
Edit: Misunderstood his post.
 

daw840

Member
DenogginizerOS said:
I think the FA draft should not be determined by performance. If not my proposed system, then at the very least the FA draft order should be random with the order inverting after each round. Players with great teams, talent wise, that perform poorly should not be rewarded with college picks and FA picks. FA is about money and value, not about rights to choose based on record and performance.

This man makes sense. Is there a randomizer program on the Internet that would do this? I don't want the Niners getting the first damn pick.
 

LukeSmith

Member
DenogginizerOS said:
I propose the following modification of option #3:

A) One of the cuts has to be above an 80 (or less like 78). The final total has to equal 230 but it can go higher. One can choose to keep their cuts secret if they are trying to get a better player. If you choose to go higher, see part B) below.

B) The person who goes over 230 the most gets to pick first in the first round of the FA Draft. The person who gives up the second most gets to go second. And so on. Tie-breakers are resolved by names in a hat until all 32 teams are in an order. This will essentially account for value and will allow players that give up the most a chance to get back the most. One key point: A person can select any of the players they choose to let go. So, if you weight your FA total on the heavy side with a really high player, you can possibly shed some lesser talent, get that player back, and still have a decent shot at getting some talent back. The risk is someone else risks a little more and perhaps takes your best player. This creates a risk/reward situtation, it creates a pseudo-value system, and it creates drama and suspense. Essentially, it recreates the scenario of "I lost my best player to Free Agency!".

C) The remaining two rounds of the FA draft will go like this:
2nd Round: The College Draft Order. 1-32 or we just invert the FA order of round 1.
3rd Round: Invert the college draft. 32-1 or we revert back to round 1 of the FA order.

D) What if in addition to my proposal above, we gave players an option to opt out of free agency altogether? They don't give up any players, but they can't select any players either until after the trade deadline during the regular season or if they have an injury that has to be addressed.

I propose the following schedule for off-season events:

1) We make cuts. You submit it via PM to FMT with the three players, their positions, their individual points, the total, and the amount you go over 230, if at all.

2) We have the FA Draft.

3) We have the college draft.

I propose we do the FA Draft on Sunday and then we can do the college draft during the week or the following weekend.

I really like this modification. The notion of cutting deeper into your team having some reward associated with it (higher "pick" in the FA draft) is a superb mechanic. Tie resolution would need a solution (two teams cut 235 or whatever), but this is a really neat approach.
 

TheCrow

Member
Wait. Is it even possible to sign free agents? I doubt the franchise servers have been down this long. We might only be able to do it after the college draft.
 

bluemax

Banned
I definitely think the FA draft order should be based on something aside from W-L record as it never works that way in real life.

As for the cutting thing I'm okay with #1 or #3. Here is who I cut and why:

Justin Griffith 77 FB, I already have a younger FB who is rated 83 and I hardly ever used a FB last season (although I hope to more next season).

Ken Lucas 76 CB, my number 3 CB but my number 4 is younger and rated 72 so I'm not in bad shape here plus I figured I could get another similar guy back in FA.

Edgerrin James 80 RB, yeah I whined to get him and then didn't use him much because his 84 was a mirage last season. Also I hope to get a replacement in either FA or the draft.

I feel for the teams with thinner rosters. Maybe the FA cuts should somehow be based on your roster quality? I don't know. But I guess at this point we are down to 3 choices so yeah.
 

LiveWire

Member
Well if the FA draft is based on something aside from W-L the Washington Redskins should automatically be #1.

Oh and I'm open to trade offers for anyone, including Haynesworth.

Also I don't see where we can set our draft preferences on the website. Is this something only available in-game?
 

LukeSmith

Member
I have some abundances at a few positions, young high pot (A) offensive linemen in year 2 in the mid-70s, an extra running back, extra defensive lineman.
 

Somnia

Member
Guys I just heard that my Grandma just passed away. I'm leaving for Florida in the next few hours. I don't know what to do regarding the draft since I owe a 5th round to Denver. I'll try to get the fa list before the fa draft on who I want and who I want to cut as soon ad we figure all this out though I don't know how well cut my guys. Just let me know what you want me to do. I'll be back Tuesday.
 

LukeSmith

Member
Somnia said:
Guys I just heard that my Grandma just passed away. I'm leaving for Florida in the next few hours. I don't know what to do regarding the draft since I owe a 5th round to Denver. I'll try to get the fa list before the fa draft on who I want and who I want to cut as soon ad we figure all this out though I don't know how well cut my guys. Just let me know what you want me to do. I'll be back Tuesday.

If you leave a list and leave the franchise, does anyone have a second Gold account (lol?) that they could log in and take over for you?

Really sorry to hear this, Somnia. :(
 

BigAT

Member
wkn2pd.jpg


"EA's causing us all to yell!"

Seriously though, at this point we should just pick something and go with it, for better or worse. All this debate over the whole thing is far worse than any possible outcomes from our free agency. People are being extremely shortsighted looking this whole thing. Of course it sucks badly if you only think about the fact that you're losing three valuable players. But EVERYONE is losing three players, and you'll have the opportunity to get three players in return.

Edit: Sucks to hear that Somnia.
 

TheCrow

Member
Somnia said:
Guys I just heard that my Grandma just passed away. I'm leaving for Florida in the next few hours. I don't know what to do regarding the draft since I owe a 5th round to Denver. I'll try to get the fa list before the fa draft on who I want and who I want to cut as soon ad we figure all this out though I don't know how well cut my guys. Just let me know what you want me to do. I'll be back Tuesday.

Fuck man, don't worry about the pick you owe. Just set up your draft preferences as you see fit and I'll just take whoever you get in the 5th.

My condolences for your loss and I hope you take time to celebrate her life. Good luck.
 

daw840

Member
I also offer my condolences, very sorry to hear that Somnia. Get your shit done, because real life is waayyy more important than some stupid Madden league.
 

DCX

DCX
On a league note. The Atlanta Falcons and the San Diego Chargers have made a blockbuster trade. It breaks down as follows:

Atlanta sends
RB Micheal Turner
LE Jamal Anderson

in return they recieve

RB- LT
CB- Cason
2nd rounder this year

DCX
 

daw840

Member
DCX said:
On a league note. The Atlanta Falcons and the San Diego Chargers have made a blockbuster trade. It breaks down as follows:

Atlanta sends
RB Micheal Turner
LE Jamal Anderson

in return they recieve

RB- LT
CB- Cason
2nd rounder this year

DCX

Holy. Shit.

You really traded LT away? Your nuts man.
 
Somnia said:
Guys I just heard that my Grandma just passed away. I'm leaving for Florida in the next few hours. I don't know what to do regarding the draft since I owe a 5th round to Denver. I'll try to get the fa list before the fa draft on who I want and who I want to cut as soon ad we figure all this out though I don't know how well cut my guys. Just let me know what you want me to do. I'll be back Tuesday.

wow i am sorry to hear that somnia. my condolences to you and your family. dont worry about FA, the draft or any of this other stuff.

still looking over the options guys, i will have a definitive answer on FA tonight.
 
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