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Official Madden Thread of Oh We Just Play DOTA2 Now

M

mastershake

Member
Trasher said:
If we picked a real lineup rather than a "cheese" lineup, you would have had an even worse time probably. =/

Maybe next time we all pick supports or something (Lich, CM, Lion, Lina, Bane).

Or we could do a push team and see if you guys can weather the storm.
Click to expand...

Yeah, you guys are going to roll us no matter what. I'd rather you guys run something we'd be more likely to see in MM though. Or you can run teams that specificly exploit know weakness'(everything?) in noob madden gaf. Then we could try to develop strats to stop that stuff - or try to at least. Like you guys run two games back to back with the same lineup, same strat... see if we learned at all or if we can adapt to stop it. We get the chance to learn and you guys get the satisfaction of beating up on us

I don't even know the best way to stop that global team. Be really aggressive early game maybe to prevent you guys from snowballing? Once all you guys hit 6 we're kinda fucked :/
 
M

McNei1y

Member
Ferny said:
At some point, you guys have to learn how to stop strats that different teams run. AT wanted to run an all push strat against you guys but we ended doing something else. It makes you guys better in the long run to learn how to play against those types of things.
Click to expand...

This will definitely help us. I'm just saying that the outcome won't be pretty either way. We'll learn a thing or two but it'll be tough love doing it.

TheCrow said:
We can't stay noobs forever.
Click to expand...

And I think the best way to do that is to continue running full noob games in pub matches.
 
M

mastershake

Member
McNei1y said:
This will definitely help us. I'm just saying that the outcome won't be pretty either way. We'll learn a thing or two but it'll be tough love doing it.



And I think the best way to do that is to continue running full noob games in pub matches.
Click to expand...

TheCrow said:
I never said we should stop running noob mm games. We can do both.
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Yeah, we can continue to run noob only MM's and practice some strats. Then test them against the vets in-house and see what they think. The all-mixed in-houses are fun at times but i think we are eventually going to give Luke a heart attack :(
 
M

McNei1y

Member
I feel like I'm getting the hang of last hitting and denying. I want to give a straight forward carry a try. I have used Silencer and Kunkka in the carry roles for some games and I've done decent enough but I want to use someone that's built for the carry role. I'm just not too sure about item selection for those types of characters. I would have no idea what to do. I think I'll give it a try in a pub game with randoms. I don't care if they yell at me lol.

Random Question: What is it about Medusa where it seems to be a love/hate relationship? A guy was berating someone for picking Medusa saying it's a waste in pub games because it takes ~60 minutes for her to be a force. Why's that?
 
M

mastershake

Member
McNei1y said:
I feel like I'm getting the hang of last hitting and denying. I want to give a straight forward carry a try. I have used Silencer and Kunkka in the carry roles for some games and I've done decent enough but I want to use someone that's built for the carry role. I'm just not too sure about item selection for those types of characters. I would have no idea what to do. I think I'll give it a try in a pub game with randoms. I don't care if they yell at me lol.

Random Question: What is it about Medusa where it seems to be a love/hate relationship? A guy was berating someone for picking Medusa saying it's a waste in pub games because it takes ~60 minutes for her to be a force. Why's that?
Click to expand...

Next noob MM you can carry. I know me/crow/cb are always rotating who's going to carry
 
M

McNei1y

Member
mastershake said:
Yeah, we can continue to run noob only MM's and practice some strats. Then test them against the vets in-house and see what they think. The all-mixed in-houses are fun at times but i think we are eventually going to give Luke a heart attack :(
Click to expand...

Luke should only commentate our games to prevent giving him a heart attack. AT and Luke are truly the best combination since Peanut Butter and Jelly.

mastershake said:
Next noob MM you can carry. I know me/crow/cb are always rotating who's going to carry
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I'm going to look up a random carry. Maybe give Lifestealer another try.
 
M

mastershake

Member
McNei1y said:
Luke should only commentate our games to prevent giving him a heart attack. AT and Luke are truly the best combination since Peanut Butter and Jelly.



I'm going to look up a random carry. Maybe give Lifestealer another try.
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ooooo deff learn LS!

Me and crow have a strat we want to try with LS so bad
 
L

LiveWire

Member
McNei1y said:
I feel like I'm getting the hang of last hitting and denying
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How many LH/Ds are you getting in a typical match? I've been playing carry a lot and I've only topped out at around 180 LH/25 D in a match--and I'm sure that is probably not good enough to hang with the elite carries.


Also, thanks eznark!
 
L

LukeSmith

Member
mastershake said:
Yeah, we can continue to run noob only MM's and practice some strats. Then test them against the vets in-house and see what they think. The all-mixed in-houses are fun at times but i think we are eventually going to give Luke a heart attack :(
Click to expand...

Nah, I'll be fine. Eventually you guys will just buy Wards and Dust no matter which hero "fantasy" you're playing
 
B

BigAT

Member
McNei1y said:
Random Question: What is it about Medusa where it seems to be a love/hate relationship? A guy was berating someone for picking Medusa saying it's a waste in pub games because it takes ~60 minutes for her to be a force. Why's that?
Click to expand...

She's the most item dependent hero in the game. She takes A LOT of farm to become effective, which not only takes a ton of time but also requires you being successful during the early and mid game to let it happen. She's really weak early on, low damage and she's squishy without an escape tool. You have to be practically level 17 before you even reach your teamfight potential.

Basically, there are many other hard carries that can do more and with less farm. She only becomes truly good extremely late in games or if she snowballs early (which can be said about basically any hero).

Plus the way most people play her, you're basically playing 4v5 Dota for the first 40 minutes of the match.
 
E

eznark

Banned
BigAT said:
She's the most item dependent hero in the game. She takes A LOT of farm to become effective, which not only takes a ton of time but also requires you being successful during the early and mid game to let it happen. She's really weak early on, low damage and she's squishy without an escape tool. You have to be practically level 17 before you even reach your teamfight potential.

Basically, there are many other hard carries that can do more and with less farm. She only becomes truly good extremely late in games or if she snowballs early (which can be said about basically any hero).

Plus the way most people play her, you're basically playing 4v5 Dota for the first 40 minutes of the match.
Click to expand...

Sounds like the perfect Bob hero
 
T

Trasher

Member
mastershake said:
I'm never trying to carry in an in-house again so that works. You and trash can carry
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That's a good place to practice for you guys though. In my opinion, half of carrying is knowing how to last hit consistently, and the other half is knowing the correct item builds for whoever you are playing.

Efficiency at farming and picking the right tools for the job (sometimes those tools change depending on the enemy team's lineup).
 
M

mastershake

Member
Trasher said:
That's a good place to practice for you guys though. In my opinion, half of carrying is knowing how to last hit consistently, and the other half is knowing the correct item builds for whoever you are playing.

Efficiency at farming and picking the right tools for the job (sometimes those tools change depending on the enemy team's lineup).
Click to expand...

In theory, it would be a great time to practice but it doesn't really work that way. I'm mediocre at best when it comes to last hitting, so I am already struggling to get my items as fast as i should. In both games i built my stuff in the wrong order as well. Then on top of all that, I have to buy support items too? It's a recipe for disaster and an early gg

The first game carry was a disaster. I built how I would for a noob MM, which clearly doesn't work for the higher skill level in-house. I took your advice for the 2nd game, though still messed up the order a bit, and did much better. I was 2nd in the entire game in LH's but my gpm was still ass cause I had to keep joining the team fights under-farmed. Luna under-farmed is super fucking squishy so I fed and lost a lot of gold. Both games ended early cause I was useless in the team fight.

I'm not a good enough carry to farm my core items and still be able to buy support stuff :/
 
T

Trasher

Member
mastershake said:
In theory, it would be a great time to practice but it doesn't really work that way. I'm mediocre at best when it comes to last hitting, so I am already struggling to get my items as fast as i should. In both games i built my stuff in the wrong order as well. Then on top of all that, I have to buy support items too? It's a recipe for disaster and an early gg

The first game carry was a disaster. I built how I would for a noob MM, which clearly doesn't work for the higher skill level in-house. I took your advice for the 2nd game, though still messed up the order a bit, and did much better. I was 2nd in the entire game in LH's but my gpm was still ass cause I had to keep joining the team fights under-farmed. Luna under-farmed is super fucking squishy so I fed and lost a lot of gold. Both games ended early cause I was useless in the team fight.

I'm not a good enough carry to farm my core items and still be able to buy support stuff :/
Click to expand...

That's part of your problem. You have no business buying wards as a carry. Don't feel obligated to do so either if people are complaining. Let the support heroes do it.

It's very difficult to team fight on Luna without a Shadowblade or a BKB. She needs items like those to engage with her ultimate properly.

(This is why it's good to practice these carries in IH games. Also, they are IH games so ultimately they don't matter and don't piss anyone off if you lose.)
 
B

BigAT

Member
Trasher said:
That's a good place to practice for you guys though. In my opinion, half of carrying is knowing how to last hit consistently, and the other half is knowing the correct item builds for whoever you are playing.

Efficiency at farming and picking the right tools for the job (sometimes those tools change depending on the enemy team's lineup).
Click to expand...

One of the hardest parts of carrying is knowing when to team fight and when to sit out and farm. There are definitely times when you shouldn't be engaging when it means giving up free farm, but it can be really hard to determine the best course if you don't know what you're doing (and sometimes even if you do).
 
M

mastershake

Member
Trasher said:
That's part of your problem. You have no business buying wards as a carry. Don't feel obligated to do so either if people are complaining. Let the support heroes do it.

It's very difficult to team fight on Luna without a Shadowblade or a BKB. She needs items like those to engage with her ultimate properly.
Click to expand...

I know you said to go SB first but I think I am going to try and build her BKB first. It gives her some much needed health with the ogre club. She only has 835 hp @ level 11 if i do the SB build. You can probably get away with a low health SB Luna cause your positioning and game understanding is way better. I need the health, I think.

Also, AT kinda touched on it already, but that was my next question. When to join the team fight and when to sit and farm. Is the general rule that farming should take priority until you have your core items? I'd always like to be super greedy and just farm non stop until I have my core items but that sometimes pisses people off when they expect you in the fight.
 
T

Trasher

Member
BigAT said:
One of the hardest parts of carrying is knowing when to team fight and when to sit out and farm. There are definitely times when you shouldn't be engaging when it means giving up free farm, but it can be really hard to determine the best course if you don't know what you're doing (and sometimes even if you do).
Click to expand...

At higher skill levels, yes. But at their tier? Not as important. Most teams don't have any semblance of coordination, hence why all carry lineups are generally so popular in low tier. It's more important to get down the farming and item builds first, then you can worry about when and when not to take proper fights with the team because that will also depend largely on your teammates' ability as well. For the most part, a carry should be in lane as long as possible or until they have their team fight items (Shadowblade/BKB/Blink Dagger/Diffusal Blade/life leech/etc).
 
F

Ferny

Member
JqsvfZW.png


SB is OP
 
T

Trasher

Member
mastershake said:
I know you said to go SB first but I think I am going to try and build her BKB first. It gives her some much needed health with the ogre club. She only has 835 hp @ level 11 if i do the SB build. You can probably get away with a low health SB Luna cause your positioning and game understanding is way better. I need the health, I think.

Also, AT kinda touched on it already, but that was my next question. When to join the team fight and when to sit and farm. Is the general rule that farming should take priority until you have your core items? I'd always like to be super greedy and just farm non stop until I have my core items but that sometimes pisses people off when they expect you in the fight.
Click to expand...

Getting SB early means you don't really need the extra HP because you have the escapability factor. SB is also super good at your tier because people don't buy detection very often. And after you have SB it's really easy to build a Helm of the Dom super fast for the leech and then you never have to leave lane/jungle to heal up. Then you build your Manta with the Ultimate Orb that will give you some more HP.

Early SB Luna is a greedy build, but that's how I build her because I like playing her as a very active and ganking hero. And I end up taking her mid quite a lot so that's why I like having the extra mobility to the different lanes for frequent ganks. It means I'm in on the team fights very early on compared to a laned Luna that farms up a BKB first and stays out of the team fights longer until she has a couple more big time items.

There definitely are different styles of play with her, and I prefer the one where she's more effective in the earlier stages of the game.
 
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