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[BigAT]

Y'all should break down some of the really bad shit we did. I think most of us want to get better and can handle criticism...

• Failure to stick together as a team. After a certain point in the game, you should be moving around the map as a full team basically at all times. You guys were rarely, if ever, together with all five.
  
  
• You guys can use the courier to buy items from the secret shop. There were several times I saw one of you make the long run and then stand there for a while, which caused team separation. I'm pretty sure Bob doesn't even know about the courier at all.
  
  
• Generally poor siege of their base. You guys would kill a couple of their heroes, then inexplicably back up for some reason instead of pressing your advantage. Attacking creeps instead of focusing on the tower/barracks, getting rax down is the most important thing in the game. Not having your full team there for sieges is a big part of this, as well as...
  
  
• Not taking advantage of Roshan as much as you should have. You guys were on Dire side, which has a map advantage for Rosh, and had the lanes pushed out, but failed to pick up Roshan as much as you should have. If you're getting badly rebuffed when trying to push into their base, a solid strategy is to back off, grab Roshan, then try again. Have your Aegis carrier dive in and initiate to force the action.
  
  
• Doubling up on team items. You guys had two Drums and two Meks, which is redundant and a waste of gold because they don't stack at all. You can generally solve this by communicating better with teammates when you start to build one and by checking your teammates' inventories to make sure they aren't already building the item.

Also you guys never bought dust or sentries and Sniper was able to run through you guys as a result. You guys have a really bad tendency to fall apart when it comes to heroes with any sort of stealth or global abilities (Nature's Prophet), but that is incredibly typical of newer players so don't feel too bad but BUY DUST.

 

[mastershake]

A popular thing most of us new guys should do is buy wards, dust, and other similar items. I think AT has to mention it at least twice a game.

Yeah, he has lol

I'm going to shift to a strictly support SK

All I really need is a blink and arcane boots to be effective. Even if they nuke me as soon as i blink in, my epi will still continue. I'll load up on wards and dust whenever possible

 

[BigAT]

I'm going to read up on where to place wards so I can actually play support.

When in doubt, ward the cliffs above the two rune spots.

 

[eznark]

Yeah, the mek thing I recognized but I felt like the other person who had mek (can't remember who) wasn't really using it and I wasn't going to be able to save up for the pipe so I just went ahead and bought mek. Probably dumb.

I never know when to rosh or when to properly dust/smoke

 

[Azwethinkweiz]

Yeah, the mek thing I recognized but I felt like the other person who had mek (can't remember who) wasn't really using it and I wasn't going to be able to save up for the pipe so I just went ahead and bought mek. Probably dumb.

I never know when to rosh or when to properly dust/smoke

Dust as soon as you see Sniper. He's going to go down fast and he's going to try to escape once he's at half health.

 

[CB3]

I need someone to coach me tonight

 

[McNei1y]

I saw the flying donkey can go to the secret shop but I have no clue how to purchase anything. It kept saying I needed to be there or something.

Also, when I'm Silencer, the guide I use recommends Mek. I always try to purchase it but I'll make sure to see if someone else doesn't already have it. I still need to learn all of the items so I can get something else instead.

 

[Nightz]

I saw the flying donkey can go to the secret shop but I have no clue how to purchase anything. It kept saying I needed to be there or something.

Select the courier when he gets to the secret shop, then purchase your item.

 

[mastershake]

I saw the flying donkey can go to the secret shop but I have no clue how to purchase anything. It kept saying I needed to be there or something.

You have to be still controlling the courier I believe. If you send him there then switch to your hero to buy it doesn't work.

 

[McNei1y]

You have to be still controlling the courier I believe. If you send him there then switch to your hero to buy it doesn't work.

I think that's what I was doing. I didn't try selecting the courier because it was a bad time to focus on something else instead of the impending team fight.

 

[Nightz]

Also, when I'm Silencer, the guide I use recommends Mek. I always try to purchase it but I'll make sure to see if someone else doesn't already have it. I still need to learn all of the items so I can get something else instead.

Yeah I'm the same way. I just follow whatever the guides tell me to get because I don't know what half the items in the game do.

 

[BigAT]

Yeah, the mek thing I recognized but I felt like the other person who had mek (can't remember who) wasn't really using it and I wasn't going to be able to save up for the pipe so I just went ahead and bought mek. Probably dumb.

I never know when to rosh or when to properly dust/smoke

It's difficult to give hard definitions for "You should Rosh NOW", but a couple of things you generally should consider:

Can you actually kill him? Not all heroes are equally effective against Roshan. You need some combination of these things to be effective in taking down Rosh: right click damage, armor reduction, life leech, something to tank Rosh for you.

Are we safe to go after Rosh? If the other team is dead, of course. If all the lanes are pushed out and the other team is no where near Rosh, you should be good. You pretty much always want to have vision in the area around so that you know if the other team is coming. Getting caught in the Rosh pit is usually devastating in a team fight.

 

[CB3]

It's difficult to give hard definitions for "You should Rosh NOW", but a couple of things you generally should consider:

Can you actually kill him? Not all heroes are equally effective against Roshan. You need some combination of these things to be effective in taking down Rosh: right click damage, armor reduction, life leech, something to tank Rosh for you.

Are we safe to go after Rosh? If the other team is dead, of course. If all the lanes are pushed out and the other team is no where near Rosh, you should be good. You pretty much always want to have vision in the area around so that you know if the other team is coming. Getting caught in the Rosh pit is usually devastating in a team fight.

What about if you dont know what Roshan is or where to find him

 

[eznark]

Yeah I guess I didn't mean "me" per se, but when I am in a pub match I am usually the only one who takes any sort of leadership role and I never know when to say "fuck it lets rosh!"

Thanks.

 

[Ferny]

I just have two suggestions/tips for ez and shake as I think I lane with you two.

Ez: Watch with the auto attacks. It can push the lane more so than you may want to do. If you're playing more a support role, get used to stacking the lane depending on what lane you're in.

Shake: If you're playing a support sand king, don't skill his third skill as it really messes with the carries last hits. Start skilling it in the late teens.

Other than that, the madden crew has really improved over the last month.

 

[mastershake]

Thanks for the breakdown, AT.

Honestly I think more newbie only games are needed. I know tiger isn't s newb and he did his best to will us to victory, but when we have two really good guys all our mistakes we make get hidden. Maybe a vet could spectate a newb game here and there to identify mistakes. If we had both AT and tiger/ferny in the game last night they would have just taken over and we'd have won easy. I can't speak for others but that's how I felt playing in that game... Just hanging out and farming waiting for someone to take over because that's normally how the other games go. Wenormally have a reduculously farmed hero telling us exactly what to do while killing eeverything on the map. Its hard to realize the silly mistake we make some times in games like that.... Does any of this make sense? Lol

Edit---

I hate typing on my new phone so I'm not fixing any spelling mistakes!

 

[eznark]

I need to learn how to stack.

My thinking on auto attacks is that I want to whittle guys down so my partner can last hit. If the enemy is in range I try to harass them as much as possible, if not I auto attack but almost never last hit. Is that a bad strategy? With Warlock and the basilus ring I feel like we can push pretty hard early so I do. Is that faulty?

 

[McNei1y]

I'll play a noob game tonight. Or something. I just want to play!

 

[BigAT]

Thanks for the breakdown, AT.

Honestly I think more newbie only games are needed. I know tiger isn't s newb and he did his best to will us to victory, but when we have two really good guys all our mistakes we make get hidden. Maybe a vet could spectate a newb game here and there to identify mistakes. If we had both AT and tiger/ferny in the game last night they would have just taken over and we'd have won easy. I can't speak for others but that's how I felt playing in that game... Just hanging out and farming waiting for someone to take over because that's normally how the other games go. Wenormally have a reduculously farmed hero telling us exactly what to do while killing eeverything on the map. Its hard to realize the silly mistake we make some times in games like that.... Does any of this make sense? Lol

This is a really good idea. It would give you guys an opportunity to play something besides supports too, which you really should be doing.

 

[McNei1y]

I need to learn how to stack.

My thinking on auto attacks is that I want to whittle guys down so my partner can last hit. If the enemy is in range I try to harass them as much as possible, if not I auto attack but almost never last hit. Is that a bad strategy? With Warlock and the basilus ring I feel like we can push pretty hard early so I do. Is that faulty?

The way I see it in the early game is that I don't want to get anywhere near the opposing tower because of how much damage it does and how small my health pool is. If I get hit once or twice by the tower, I'm a prime target for a ganking. I just let the creeps do all of the work.

 

[CB3]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kS2wNx1lEIg

AT?

 

[Nightz]

Thanks for the breakdown, AT.

Honestly I think more newbie only games are needed. I know tiger isn't s newb and he did his best to will us to victory, but when we have two really good guys all our mistakes we make get hidden. Maybe a vet could spectate a newb game here and there to identify mistakes. If we had both AT and tiger/ferny in the game last night they would have just taken over and we'd have won easy. I can't speak for others but that's how I felt playing in that game... Just hanging out and farming waiting for someone to take over because that's normally how the other games go. Wenormally have a reduculously farmed hero telling us exactly what to do while killing eeverything on the map. Its hard to realize the silly mistake we make some times in games like that.... Does any of this make sense? Lol

Edit---

I hate typing on my new phone so I'm not fixing any spelling mistakes!

Makes sense to me and I agree. I always become a follower in our games and rely on someone telling me where to go.

 

[Azwethinkweiz]

I need to learn how to stack.

My thinking on auto attacks is that I want to whittle guys down so my partner can last hit. If the enemy is in range I try to harass them as much as possible, if not I auto attack but almost never last hit. Is that a bad strategy? With Warlock and the basilus ring I feel like we can push pretty hard early so I do. Is that faulty?

If you're with the hard carry, you don't want to push. You want the creeps to do all the work and then just have the carry last hit. If you're keeping the wave near your tower, you're keeping your carry (and you) safe from ganks while still getting farm. The closer you get to their tower, the easier you make it for their mid to come gank you. When I'm playing mid, I usually watch to see which lane has the enemy close to our tower. That's usually the lane I try to gank.

 

[McNei1y]

I'll be a hard carry Kunkka!!!! Or I'll try someone like Axe.

 

[Mrbob]

I do have a melee vs ranged question.

In my lane with my phantom assassin I had two ranged enemies up against me, and they kept attacking me instead of the mob so I would have to back off. Is there a way to combat this?

 

[eznark]

If you're with the hard carry, you don't want to push. You want the creeps to do all the work and then just have the carry last hit. If you're keeping the wave near your tower, you're keeping your carry (and you) safe from ganks while still getting farm. The closer you get to their tower, the easier you make it for their mid to come gank you. When I'm playing mid, I usually watch to see which lane has the enemy close to our tower. That's usually the lane I try to gank.

So then do I even want that stupid ring? Isn't its only purpose to buff the creeps?

 

[Ferny]

I do have a melee vs ranged question.

In my lane with my phantom assassin I had two ranged enemies up against me, and they kept attacking me instead of the mob so I would have to back off. Is there a way to combat this?

Not really. That's a very hard lane to play against. You could hit the creeps with your dagger since it has a long range, but other than that, you're boned in that lane.

So then do I even want that stupid ring? Isn't its only purpose to buff the creeps?

It provides mana regen for you, your lane partner, and creeps with mana.

 

[BigAT]

I do have a melee vs ranged question.

In my lane with my phantom assassin I had two ranged enemies up against me, and they kept attacking me instead of the mob so I would have to back off. Is there a way to combat this?

You can use her Q to stand back safely and last hit creeps.

So then do I even want that stupid ring? Isn't its only purpose to buff the creeps?

You get it early because it provides mana regen and armor to you and your teammate. You can turn off the aura so that it no longer affects creeps (click the item), which you should be doing during the laning phase. You can turn it back on later in the game when you start pushing towers.

 

[mastershake]

Who's in for a newbie game tonight?

1) shake

 

[McNei1y]

Depends on the time but I'm in.

 

[eznark]

Maybe. I have a baseball game to play at 10 and may go to bed early, we'll see.

 

[CB3]

Who's in for a newbie game tonight?

1) shake

Me. Unless there is a super newbie group. ID be in for that too.

Gotta be after game 7, though.

 

[mastershake]

Me. Unless there is a super newbie group. ID be in for that too.

Gotta be after game 7, though.

You and Bob vs medium bots

 

[eznark]

I was watching a daily dota and there was a mode where teams picked heroes for the other teams. We should do that for the next 5v5 so that try hard's like trashman don't ruin everyone's fun.

 

[CB3]

You and Bob vs medium bots

Bob is in the newborn division. Im not that low.

 

[Azwethinkweiz]

I was watching a daily dota and there was a mode where teams picked heroes for the other teams. We should do that for the next 5v5 so that try hard's like trashman don't ruin everyone's fun.

Reverse Captain's Mode.

 

[Ferny]

If you guys play a newbie game and need a couple people, I'll play and just go support all the way. You guys run the show though.

 

[Trasher]

how did KunkkAT do last night

GOT THROWN IN THE DUMPSTER

Yeah, I probably shouldn't have picked NS. Sorry, bros. I thought AT was gonna play Kunkka/Slark, so I drafted with the idea of trying to end the game pretty fast before those heroes got big.

By the way, NS is a HUGE dbag to play against...UNLESS you buy wards and keep vision up at all times. I could tell you didn't have wards when I would get the runes, and I pretty much had free roam because of it, which is the best possible scenario for NS. Other good things you can do is to just play super super safe when it is nighttime and you know NS is running around. As long as you aren't feeding him kills, and you can get through the first two real nighttimes without dying much, you are gonna be in really good shape. That's when his effectives begins to drop off. He's very good early to mid game, but once the other team starts getting items and more HP, he doesn't hurt as much anymore. And when you limit his kills at the start, he gets no farm and becomes quite worthless.

The other way to beat him is to just team up with everyone and push lanes. He's only effective if he can take fights when the enemy team is split up in their lanes.

We actually had a very well setup team/lane combinations. BH is super easy to throw in the hard lane, and a tri-lane is especially great because that means when I came down there to gank it was 4v2. Even when AT went down there, it was still 3v3 and was pretty hard for them to take anyone out.

 

[LukeSmith]

I can show people how to stack and pull.

The number one most important thing at low level is learning to last hit. Gold is never a problem if you can last hit. I was ward bitch for ages when I started playing and if I had just ignored everything else and learned to last hit things would've been way better later on.

Number two is knowing where and when to Ward.

 

[CB3]

If we can step away from all the dota talk for a second, did any of you guys play Marvel Heros? I went through the tutorial. Its pretty decent.

 

[eznark]

I played it to like level 5 and was pretty unimpressed. Not sure why I'd play that over the thousands of other diablo-alikes.

 

[mastershake]

Finally broke down and got a real mouse. Been using this shitty dell mouse(left/right click + wheel). Bought a Logitech G400s... hopefully its a good one! Seems everyone recommends the sensei's but they only had one at microcenter and it was $100!

Hopefully this will help me casting and using items now that i have a lot more buttons on my mouse to use.

Also, for stacking... when should you stack the ancient creeps? right from the beginning or is it one of those things you just do when you happen to be close?

 

[TheCrow]

Who's in for a newbie game tonight?

1) shake

I'm in as long as it isn't too late.

 

[CB3]

I played it to like level 5 and was pretty unimpressed. Not sure why I'd play that over the thousands of other diablo-alikes.

Its MARHVEL BABY

That's probably what it comes down to. I always liked the Diablo story and atmosphere which is why I stuck to that series in that genre of games. Even if 3 was lacking.

 

[Splat]

I could also maybe go in a newbie game depending on time.

 

[mastershake]

Seems we are all watching the finals so we could try to get a game in before or right after

 

[Azwethinkweiz]

Just played a match as Spirit Breaker. I don't think I've ever used him before, but man, he's such a pub stomper.

 

[storybook77]

This Xbox One pre-launch is a god damn train wreck. lol

 

[TheCrow]

This Xbox One pre-launch is a god damn train wreck. lol

I was doubtful of that pastebin but glad cboat confirmed it. Would've loved to see the reaction when MS actually detailed the family sharing plan.

 

[storybook77]

I was doubtful of that pastebin but glad cboat confirmed it. Would've loved to see the reaction when MS actually detailed the family sharing plan.

I knew the way they were trying to present sounded way too good to be true.

I could see a plan that allowed everyone hooked into your modem/router being able to share full games but 10 people that don't even have to be family?