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Official NBA2K9 GAF Season...6(?) Thread!
- Thread starter Smokey
- Start date
Herpes Reasons
Banned
obama would vote for dynamic pip. would you?
btw, spurs, sixer, nuggets. where you at?
btw, spurs, sixer, nuggets. where you at?
Herpes Reasons
Banned
yeah. figures. daw and zep, we have 24hours. ill be available after 5:30pm pst tomorrow.Smokey said:
anachronous_one
Prologue Type S Alpha
I *try* to play on-ball defense whenever possible, but when an opponent makes two or more passes and quickly rotates the ball around the perimeter --- eff that. I've *TRIED* to play on-ball in those situations, and all that ends up happening is that I end up with at least one, if not two defenders, out of position because of me briefly taking control and then having to rapidly switch away to where the ball just rotated to.Truelize said:
EDIT:
CB3 - Bucks - Coldblooded33
AirBrian - Bulls - AirBrian
Truelize - Cavs - Truelize
I should be online after 9pm Eastern tonight, if we can knock these games out.
DenogginizerOS
BenjaminBirdie's Thomas Jefferson
Take the Bobcats next season and prove me wrong. They are a horrid team from the perimeter (mid to long range) and if it were as easy as you claim to hit outside shots, then no one would care which team they had or would stack their teams with outside shooters like they do.DiddyBop said:
AkaBalla said:
Cerrius was whining throughout the first half because I was playing Wade tight. He paused the game several times and then sent me a message accusing me of running a full-court press. I was pressing Wade from about mid-court and trying to cut back on the time he had to set up his perimeter game. A reasonable strategy when you are facing a strong outside shooting team like the Heat, but not cheating. He responded by going Iso and having Wade drive the paint repeatedly and dunk or drive and dish for a 3.
Then, in the second half, I tried shooting more from the outside because he seemed to be packing the paint. I could not hit open shots. He then went up by 10 points. I kept fighting, hitting outside 3's with Jason Richardson and I believe Felton or Morrison hit one as well. I got it within 4 and that is when it seemed he brought his perimeter defense out tight on me. At that point, I did what anyone would do: I worked the paint. And with a second left, I hit a game-winning bucket. Promptly, after the game was over, he sent me a "GG" via XBL. No complaining to me, claiming I had scored too much in the paint. Nope. Nada. But, after playing two more games, I come back to the thread and see he took a picture of the screen and sent it to Smokey. And Smokey, without hesitation, took the win from me. Now, if I had abused some post-move or some exploit to win, then I would say Cerrius has a case and probably would have NOT sent me a "GG" message after the game. But I didn't cheat. And he knows it.
Nevertheless, if I am expected to just shoot shots from the outside that I know won't go in and basically just concede victory to people once my PIP gets too high, I fail to see how that is any different from Smokey simming games and giving people victory. However, at least by simming, I don't waste my time like I did yesterday.
EDIT: Here are some PIP statistics from the last 14 real NBA games played and the last 16 NBA 2K9 Games Played (NBA/NBA2K9) Note: I included second chance points in the calculation and used the raw PIP from the box scores:
Avg PIP = 38 pts. +/- 10pts / 38 pts +/- 9 pts
Highest PIP total by a single team in a game = 60 pts / 60 pts
Lowest PIP total by a single team in a game = 26 pts / 14 pts
Biggest difference in PIP between 2 teams in a single game = 26 pts / 16 pts
Avg PIP% = 37% +/- 8% / 48% +/- 10%
Loser = 37% +/- 7% / 50% +/- 12
Winner = 38% +/- 8%. / 46% +/- 8
Highest percentage PIP in a single game by a single team = 51% / 67% (and it wasn't one of my games)
Lowest percentage PIP in a single game by a single team = 26% / 27%
Biggest percentage difference in PIP% between 2 teams in a single game = 22%* / 24%**.
*Interestingly, the team with the highest percentage PIP lost by seven points.
** Team with the highest percentage lost by sixteen points (and it wasn't one of my games)
ANALYSIS:
1) The NBA 2K9 GAF league shot 11% more PIP than the NBA.
2) Both in the NBA and in the 2K9 league, the team with the highest PIP% in a single game lost.
3) Both leagues shoot the same average in points.
4) Both leagues had a team with 60 PIP in a single game.
5) There appears to be no significant correlation between a team winning or losing and having a higher PIP%.
From the patch notes:
If they decreased the PIP shooting percentages and increased the effectiveness of perimeter defense, and a team with a strong outside offensive shooting presence sets the perimeter defense to "tight", the scale is tipped in their favor against a team that has more of an inside presence and/or a weaker outside game.
And finally, I was punished for hitting my shots in the paint on the first attempt. If I would have missed 5 more shots, rebounded, and scored on a second-chance, I would have been at 50. It seems silly that I was essentially punished for hitting my shots in the paint on the first attempt thus negating the second chance point element. Silly, indeed.
By the way, I am curious what Cerrius' PIP and second-chance points were for our game. Smokey, do you still have the picture?
AkaBalla said:
Yeah and if you noticed when you swung the ball around I switched to the closest guy to you to manually defend you in the zone. It is what it is. With a zone it's going to be harder to play manually, but me personally I'm able to switch defenders quickly enough to do it.
DenogginizerOS
BenjaminBirdie's Thomas Jefferson
So, me shooting 12% more in PIP netted me a one point victory while someone who shot 24% more PIP in a single game compared to their opponent (67% versus 43%) lost by 16 points. Yeah, I see the correlation....
Does PIP distinguish between layups and short-range jumpers in the paint? In other words, what about PIP is bad besides someone abusing a post move? Is someone driving to the basket after a perimeter defender goes for the steal considered inappropriate if the other team chooses to defend the perimeter so tightly? I mean, if everyone defends the perimeter tight, then it comes down to which team has the best shooters when covered closely and chooses not to go to the paint when it is open.
Does PIP distinguish between layups and short-range jumpers in the paint? In other words, what about PIP is bad besides someone abusing a post move? Is someone driving to the basket after a perimeter defender goes for the steal considered inappropriate if the other team chooses to defend the perimeter so tightly? I mean, if everyone defends the perimeter tight, then it comes down to which team has the best shooters when covered closely and chooses not to go to the paint when it is open.
kirbybreezy
Member
You put in some serious work on those stats. Great job.
I do think that it can be a bit misleading though. Winning teams usually have some headroom to spare so to speak when it comes to PIP. The team that is trailing in that game usually depends on PIP to make the game competitive, or to close gaps. Hence why the losing team tends to have more PIP.
If we totally lift the PIP (I'm not sure if you're asking for that or not) than even the good teams will be able to run wild.
I'm not sure that this translates to the real NBA. Good teams usually do go to the paint alot, but they don't end up finishing, they end up getting a lot of free throws, so that doesn't show up in PIP.
I do think that it can be a bit misleading though. Winning teams usually have some headroom to spare so to speak when it comes to PIP. The team that is trailing in that game usually depends on PIP to make the game competitive, or to close gaps. Hence why the losing team tends to have more PIP.
If we totally lift the PIP (I'm not sure if you're asking for that or not) than even the good teams will be able to run wild.
I'm not sure that this translates to the real NBA. Good teams usually do go to the paint alot, but they don't end up finishing, they end up getting a lot of free throws, so that doesn't show up in PIP.
DenogginizerOS
BenjaminBirdie's Thomas Jefferson
In the NBA, the team with the higher PIP% won by the slimmest of margins. Statistically there is no significant difference between winning and losing and higher PIP. Which is why I said there is no correlation.kirbybreezy said:
In a league where I am essentially the worst team as the Boobcats, I would much rather take my chances and fight with all I have against a team that is not restricted by PIP than have to fight hard and concede victory because I am not allowed to go to the paint any more.
Interestingly, here is a statistical study of NBA PIP: http://www.82games.com/pointsinpaint.htm that illustrates that the PIP stat is not entirely self-inclusive as a determinant of victory.
Herpes Reasons
Banned
shut the hell up. josh smith is a better defender than shaq. you've got the biggest cheeser in the game.pheeniks said:okay that's it. FUCK on-ball D. i can't defend the goddamn rockets
at the very least, i'm going to manually defend yao. i have to front him cause the game won't do it. if i don't front him it's an automatic 2 points
i should have kept shaq
DenogginizerOS said:
Some serious stat digging you did in your previous post. Good stuff.
All in all though the whole point of the PIP limit is to try and have a more enjoyable experience playing in the league than if you were to go to XBL and play a random person. In random matches people often bang the ball in the paint or chunk three's. There is no in between. So the idea is, in the league you really don't want to play somebody like that. The PIP rule tries to limit that by making you use other aspects of the game.
No it's not perfect and all sort of technicalities come up here and there but we have to have something to go by.
okay that's it. FUCK on-ball D. i can't defend the goddamn rockets
at the very least, i'm going to manually defend yao. i have to front him cause the game won't do it. if i don't front him it's an automatic 2 points
i should have kept shaq
snaq is nothing to the Great Wall. gg btw.
haha
kado is this you on xbl right now? i sent you a msg. i want to play a custom game (not using rockets)...i want to try something.
DenogginizerOS
BenjaminBirdie's Thomas Jefferson
Smokey said:
I have encountered that very thing in the few games I have played in this league. I see a lot of heavy three-point shooting after a drive to the basket. And if you want something to go by, I suggest honor. If someone is repeatedly abusing a post move, then I am sure you would hear about it. But in all the games I have played, I have not done this. It just so happens I happened to win one this time.
Herpes Reasons
Banned
that's my nephew playing. im at work.Smokey said:
Herpes Reasons
Banned
i'll vouch for you man. when we played our game yesterday, you didn't cheese/exploit whether you would've passed the 50pip barrier or not. so therefore in my book, breaking the 50pip=!exploiting. But rules are rules for this season. i can understand the admins following the rules. but if they dont change the rules next season, they'll be a lot of complaints.DenogginizerOS said:
whats with all the hate against 3 point chuckers:lol its the lowest percentage shot in the game!
and can we pick new teams if we want next season? i really wanna test a new team out...
oh and about lock on d, i wouldnt expect ppl to use it 100% of the time,i myself use it maybe 80-90% of the time depending on the situation, but there are some that put zero effort into it,which is kinda cheap.
and dognizer, hopefully you've calmed down and changed your mind about quitting the league,just stay and play with us, im sure smokey will tighten the rules for next season.
anyone wanna scrimmage?
and can we pick new teams if we want next season? i really wanna test a new team out...
oh and about lock on d, i wouldnt expect ppl to use it 100% of the time,i myself use it maybe 80-90% of the time depending on the situation, but there are some that put zero effort into it,which is kinda cheap.
and dognizer, hopefully you've calmed down and changed your mind about quitting the league,just stay and play with us, im sure smokey will tighten the rules for next season.
anyone wanna scrimmage?
FrenchMovieTheme
Member
i have no problem with the way denogg played or daw. its like this PIP rule has no context. if PIP are within the flow of the game then why not?
for instance, daw scored 70+ points against me in the paint (and i against him in our 113-111 barn burner), and i felt it was all within the flow. but the last time i played truelize, i was up big at the half and coming out in the 3rd quarter ALL he did was just drive to the basket with lebron and dunk. not really any strategy, he would quickly move the ball up court, and blow by me for the dunk repeatedly. lucky i had a big lead and i was hitting shots, or the game could have ended differently.
im not complaining or calling him out (i know he did this because he was frustrated with shooting airballs from outside) but the point still stands that without context the PIP rule doesn't mean much. i have had games where people score under 50 PIP and i felt their paint play was cheap vs. people who scored over 50 and i felt it was perfectly within the flow of the game.
for instance, daw scored 70+ points against me in the paint (and i against him in our 113-111 barn burner), and i felt it was all within the flow. but the last time i played truelize, i was up big at the half and coming out in the 3rd quarter ALL he did was just drive to the basket with lebron and dunk. not really any strategy, he would quickly move the ball up court, and blow by me for the dunk repeatedly. lucky i had a big lead and i was hitting shots, or the game could have ended differently.
im not complaining or calling him out (i know he did this because he was frustrated with shooting airballs from outside) but the point still stands that without context the PIP rule doesn't mean much. i have had games where people score under 50 PIP and i felt their paint play was cheap vs. people who scored over 50 and i felt it was perfectly within the flow of the game.
Yeah I really don't know what the proper answer is to the pip issue, as I change my mind the more I think about it. Scores vary so much...you can win a game 68-65 and you have 18 second chance points you win. But if you put 60 in the paint with 106 total you lose...something doesn't seem right with this scenerio.
Also, if Cerrius goes GG all his whining should be null and void. You don't say gg to someone and then complain behind his back, that is bullshit.
Also, if Cerrius goes GG all his whining should be null and void. You don't say gg to someone and then complain behind his back, that is bullshit.
Herpes Reasons
Banned
the week advances tomorrow? maybe its a good idea to delay week 5 til the 25th. there are still a lot of games that have yet to be played. i myself have lil time to play a game with the holidays and all.
FrenchMovieTheme
Member
pffft i played all my games in 1 day and im busy for the holidays too!
no concessions and no discussion (just like PIP!) league should advance tomorrow!
no concessions and no discussion (just like PIP!) league should advance tomorrow!
i'm taking phoenix again and i'm not trading shaq. that team is still going to be a cheese factory
i miss having shaq. i thought he was actually harder to defend than amare. he can actually still play in the nba...problem is no one gives him the ball so people think he's more washed up than he really is
so when i average like 10 dunks a game don't get mad!
i miss having shaq. i thought he was actually harder to defend than amare. he can actually still play in the nba...problem is no one gives him the ball so people think he's more washed up than he really is
so when i average like 10 dunks a game don't get mad!
Herpes Reasons
Banned
you better give me back barbosa, you son of a bitch.pheeniks said:
Herpes Reasons
Banned
teams that tank gets dibs? hmmmm...DCX said:
anachronous_one
Prologue Type S Alpha
Hey there, yeah, i was falling asleep watching the MNF game waiting for you. I finally gave up ~11:20-11:25pm and went to bed.Truelize said:
I'm hoping to get in our game, as well as my game against AirBrian / Chicago Bulls and CB3 / Milwaukee Bucks tonight. I was really hoping to get one or two of these out of the way last night, rather than cram them all into the last night.
Ah well.
FrenchMovieTheme said:
I only did that because I was shooting airballs (not just missing shots, missing the entire rim and backboard) and you never ever play on ball defense against me. I find it near impossible with my roster to play against someone that doesn't try to guard me at all and then plays a zone. I do not use my pg much on offense so I wind up playing the majority of our games against your computer controlled players.
But if someone isn't guarding me I will abuse the computer defender the best I know how. With Lebron. I will get to the rim every possible chance I get while my opponent sits out at the top of the three point line watching the game happen. Once I start getting to the rim with ease I can usually make my opponent play some honest defense. Points are points I guess.
I think the little trick I've caught people doing on defense is even worse. Did you all know that if you are controlling the on-ball defender that if you switch off of him just before the offensive player starts his shot you have a MUCH greater chance at getting a block because the computer reacts quicker than a button press? Yup, seen it happen in my games against several people. I'll be using pump fakes, jabs, screens and have what looks like open shots and then all of a sudden a defender is in the air. A computer defender is able to react quicker in this game than my button presses will due to lag. I can barely even attempt isomotion in most of my games the button lag is so bad.
I really don't like complaining about the little things in this game though. Not anymore. I've been trying to get FMT to play more manual defense for years and nothing has changed. Funny cause in Madden I changed my entire game to match what the commissioners wanted in that league, hmmm. But I would much rather find a way to win than to have someone change their style now. I play my games, enjoy them and get on with my life.
The worst thing this week though is that Denogg can't get past the fact that he broke a rule. Simply broke a rule. Regardless of intention the rule was broken, the loss is given and we move on. If you need to check your PiP stats at halftime and at the end of the third quarter then do it. It doesn't take long at all. And maybe you take a couple more jumpshots instead of going to the hoop and you hit them and still win the game.
It's a tough loss but it's still a loss.
I hope I can get all my games in our next week of games. Sucks that I've only played one so far this week and I'm working near 20 hours tonight setting my store up for Boxing Day sales after close tonight. I'll be home most of tomorrow though. So maybe I can get a scrimmage in at least.
Lates guys
Merry Christmas
anachronous_one
Prologue Type S Alpha
Truelize said:
Ouch. Good luck with work, man. Hope you have a relaxing holiday to make up for it.
So we won't be playing our game then, I assume?
FrenchMovieTheme
Member
gtfo of here dude, i played man up more than 80% of the game on you, THAT is how you blew past me most of the time, because that's all you did and i can't guard it.
secondly, starting in the 2nd half you didn't even give me the CHANCE to get set in my defense because you'd just throw the ball to half court and get a shot up with fucking 20 seconds left on the shot clock (usually a dunk) :lol
my point wasn't that you broke a rule, my point is that playing against that kind of offense is a hell of a lot cheesier to me than playing against someone who maybe works the ball inside naturally and within the flow of the game.
just giving my 2 cents on this whole thing, but don't cry about me not playing on the ball defense when i know for a fact i did it most of the game.
p.s. you even admitted i did after our first game when i thought you had accused me of it
FrenchMovieTheme
Member
smokey how is the draft for season 7 going to go? worst team picks first?
i think that's the way that it should go, so the players who weren't so good can get the good teams. i call celtics!
i think that's the way that it should go, so the players who weren't so good can get the good teams. i call celtics!
smokey,is there a way to get a win if youve been trying to contact an opponent and they dont respond? ive been trying all week to get at spurs owner to no avail. i even sent a PM but no response. potentially taking an L when youre ready willing and able to play sucks. i hope he checks the thread before the time limit. daw is in a tight situation so i understand.
and a fantasy draft sounds interesting,we should just have a vote. i would vote against it but if ppl voted for it i wouldnt mind. the only thing that would be troublesome is that youd have to go into practice mode with a lot of diff teams just to learn an individual's release point.
and a fantasy draft sounds interesting,we should just have a vote. i would vote against it but if ppl voted for it i wouldnt mind. the only thing that would be troublesome is that youd have to go into practice mode with a lot of diff teams just to learn an individual's release point.