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[firehawk12]

Honestly, we're just lucky that the weather has been great this year. I still remember the last strike... it fucking reeked everywhere you went.

 

[DemonSwordsman]

Why dont they just hire the stupid bums in toronto and make them haul trash like they do anyways.

Or more realistically theres enough people with out jobs just hire them instead.

 

[BigJonsson]

Why dont they just hire the stupid bums in toronto and make them haul trash like they do anyways.

Or more realistically theres enough people with out jobs just hire them instead.

Can't hire replacement workers

 

[BladeWorker]

In this case, yes. The union is an overprivileged child throwing a temper tantrum because it can't get what it wants.

You say that like our absentee mayor's been doing such a great job...

Both sides have got it wrong, IMHO.

 

[EvilMario]

Talk of opening a new dump site at Rennie Park, even though Sunnyside isn't nearly full. Nothing better than a dump right next to a school and playground.

Why doesn't the City just put bins at the dump sites, then haul it out every week?

 

[firehawk12]

Those would be strike breakers or whatever, wouldn't they?

 

[baultista]

This is really pissing me off now... I wanna go swimming!

 

[Atomic]

Ya this is getting insane.
Our lareg garbage bins are extra full and none of us drive. We are screwed.

The city is saving money at this point correct?

 

[Gallbaro]

Still like civil employee unions Canada?

I kind of feel like Nero must of felt. :lol It is quite entertaining when something like this reinforces your views and happens to someone else.

 

[baultista]

Ya this is getting insane.
Our lareg garbage bins are extra full and none of us drive. We are screwed.

The city is saving money at this point correct?

On the radio they estimated savings of $15 million per week, but that doesn't include additional expenditures caused by the strike, or any revenues lost from facilities and attractions being closed.

 

[EvilMario]

On the radio they estimated savings of $15 million per week, but that doesn't include additional expenditures caused by the strike, or any revenues lost from facilities and attractions being closed.

Yes. The City is technically saving money, and probably a decent amount as mentioned. Keep in mind that they also have security monitoring dump sites 24/7 as well though. All in all, I think it's a sign that we need to move these sorts of services (garbage) to the private sector, ala, Etobicoke.

 

[Big-E]

Still like civil employee unions Canada?

I kind of feel like Nero must of felt. :lol It is quite entertaining when something like this reinforces your views and happens to someone else.

WTF? Ya fuck workers striking, if they want to strike they shouldn't take the job and should want to be exploited because others would be more than happy to. Go fuck yourself.

 

[Circle Jerk]

If you're anti- union, you are probably a piece of shit. Actually, there's no probably about it.

 

[DopeyFish]

Etobicoke isn't all private sector, residential is but the waste bins on the streets are collected by the city of Toronto.

 

[ProudClod]

If you're anti- union, you are probably a piece of shit. Actually, there's no probably about it.

There's a difference between being pro-union, and supporting CUPE. CUPE is the most militant union in North America. My University's CUPE branch went on strike this year too. I was at home for 3 months because of it. Now the garbage strike.

I understand the principles behind unions. We'd be living in a very dark place without them, yes. I understand the bourgeoisie vs. the proletariat concept. However, this is not SIMPLY an issue of employer vs. employee. This effects every man, woman and child in Toronto, most of which aren't even remotely connected to the issue at hand. Yes, that is the point. It's all about bargaining power. However, if this strike looks anything like the CUPE3903 strike, it'll eventually go to a 3rd party mediator who'll realize that CUPE's demands are fucking insane. CUPE won't get what they want, they'll be forced back to work, and everyone will realize that this strike was a complete waste of time.

 

[Gallbaro]

If you're anti-union, you are probably a piece of shit. Actually, there's no probably about it.

I am anti civil employee union, I said nothing about the private sector. Government is already a political entity, why would you allow it to be run by unionized employees rather than the citizenry?

 

[DopeyFish]

i'm against unions that fight for stupid benefits and ridiculous wages

unions are about workers rights, not workers greed. Too many are too powerful.

can't stand working somewhere that's unionized workers, either. Don't tell me I'm working too fast, I work at my own pace. If you can't keep up then please leave. If you're afraid of no work then quit and let competent workers do the job. This is the kind of shit that can destroy companies with tight margins and damage cities and their reputations. Unions of today are terrorist organizations, holding their employers and their cities hostage.

 

[Circle Jerk]

There's a difference between being pro-union, and supporting CUPE. CUPE is the most militant union in North America. My University's CUPE branch went on strike this year too. I was at home for 3 months because of it. Now the garbage strike.

I understand the principles behind unions. We'd be living in a very dark place without them, yes. I understand the bourgeoisie vs. the proletariat concept. However, this is not SIMPLY an issue of employer vs. employee. This effects every man, woman and child in Toronto, most of which aren't even remotely connected to the issue at hand. Yes, that is the point. It's all about bargaining power. However, if this strike looks anything like the CUPE3903 strike, it'll eventually go to a 3rd party mediator who'll realize that CUPE's demands are fucking insane. CUPE won't get what they want, they'll be forced back to work, and everyone will realize that this strike was a complete waste of time.

I go to York too. =) The TA's at York however were striking for the wrong reason. Our union here has always been militant in comparison to others, and I didn't agree with most of their strike (my main issue being the 3 year deal, which was just going to lead to another strike). The city strike is more about security in old age, whereas the York strike seemed like an overblown mess for bad reasons.

e: I'm not even going to bother trying to argue government versus private companies. I think privatization is bad, you don't. Nothing good will come out of arguing it.

i'm against unions that fight for stupid benefits and ridiculous wages

unions are about workers rights, not workers greed. Too many are too powerful.

can't stand working somewhere that's unionized workers, either. Don't tell me I'm working too fast, I work at my own pace. If you can't keep up then please leave. If you're afraid of no work then quit and let competent workers do the job. This is the kind of shit that can destroy companies with tight margins and damage cities and their reputations. Unions of today are terrorist organizations, holding their employers and their cities hostage.

The issue is the greed goes both ways. Without any power, the company can treat workers however they want- lower wages, less benefits, anything to make more. There are unions that exploit their situation and fight for ridiculous things, but to ignore the good unions have done for workers is ridiculous. If the choice is exploit the worker, or exploit the company, I would rather exploit the company.

 

[explodet]

http://www.thestar.com/news/gta/article/672298

After thirty-five long and miserable days, a deal was reached this morning to end the strike by Toronto's garbage collectors and other outside workers. The settlement came after around-the-clock bargaining sparked by a 48-hour ultimatum issued Friday by Mark Ferguson, president of CUPE Local 416, representing some 6,200 outside workers.

Ferguson said the next step is for the city to make a deal with striking inside workers represented by CUPE Local 79. He said the outside workers' deal would only be put to a ratification vote once the inside workers have an agreement as well.

The strike is not expected to end until then.

So the strike isn't over yet, but they're halfway there!

 

[Gallbaro]

What did organized crime extract out of Toronto?

 

[YYZ]

Yea I'm wondering how we're going to be more fucked five years from now.

 

[LCfiner]

I'm visiting Toronto at the end of August. I really hope this shit is cleaned up by then.

 

[YYZ]

So are they going to start off with a ton of overtime to clean up the backlog or is it slowly going to get better?

 

[CrankyJay]

Just got back from an evening in Toronto for a Depeche Mode concert. Walking around to bars before and after the show you could definitely see overflowing garbage cans. Kind of a shame because I always remembered Toronto as the cleanest city I've ever seen.

 

[EvilMario]

Updated the OP to reflect what's been going on, and the possible outcome in site.

It might be over with soon! But what will be the end results that both parties arrive at.. how will the tax payers undoubtedly be screwed.. upcoming..

http://www.thestar.com/news/gta/article/672298
So the strike isn't over yet, but they're halfway there!

After thirty-five long and miserable days, a deal was reached this morning to end the strike by Toronto's garbage collectors and other outside workers. The settlement came after around-the-clock bargaining sparked by a 48-hour ultimatum issued Friday by Mark Ferguson, president of CUPE Local 416, representing some 6,200 outside workers.

Ferguson said the next step is for the city to make a deal with striking inside workers represented by CUPE Local 79. He said the outside workers' deal would only be put to a ratification vote once the inside workers have an agreement as well.

The strike is not expected to end until then.

:lol

 

[Magik]

I can't believe this shithole of a city caved in so damn easily.

 

[firehawk12]

We're pretty much douchebags in that respect.

That said, every time there's a TTC strike I beg for a settlement, even if it means taking it up the ass. I don't drive, so sue me.

 

[Canova]

Hey Torontonians,

email or call your councilor and tell him/her to vote against the agreement on friday.


here's the list of your councilors

http://app.toronto.ca/wards/jsp/wards.jsp

 

[explodet]

We're all fucked.

 

[Zombie James]

Fuck this union.

 

[Azih]

So the concession was a few different ways to grandfather the sick day bank instead of just the immediate buyout? Whatever, the sick day bank is dead going forward. That's pretty much a win for the city.

 

[BladeWorker]

But what will be the end results that both parties arrive at.. how will the tax payers undoubtedly be screwed.. upcoming..

You mean like property tax hikes to bring TO in line with the rest of the GTA? Paying the full price for our transit system? Not that I think we're all so golden, but let's be realistic, if only for a moment.

Any bets on who our next mayor will be?

 

[Canova]

You mean like property tax hikes to bring TO in line with the rest of the GTA? Paying the full price for our transit system? Not that I think we're all so golden, but let's be realistic, if only for a moment.

Any bets on who our next mayor will be?

Anyone that has privatization platform will get my vote

 

[Gallbaro]

I can't believe this shithole of a city caved in so damn easily.

That is why you do not let unions in government functions, especially essential services.

 

[Atrus]

That is why you do not let unions in government functions, especially essential services.

So how exactly would you staff professional positions such as lawyers and accountants at cost?

 

[Raistlin]

Not sure if this is related ... but after a bar run following the Depeche Mode concert, I got some street-vendor poutine and lamb.

BIG mistake.


Got up in the morning ... first shit was normal. Within a half hour though, two bouts of the squirts. Luckily, made it through some sight-seeing, but had to take one at Ikea a few hours later ... and another when I got home.

 

[someguyinahat]

Whatever, the sick day bank is dead going forward. That's pretty much a win for the city.

Not exactly. It's going to be a long time before there are enough new hires that we feel the sick bank is dead. Taxpayers will still be paying for the sick banks of the existing workers for years. There's a recession now, as opposed to by the time the change will be felt.

For five weeks, I was shocked that Miller wasn't giving in to the union's demands. I thought he may have actually grown a spine. Turns out, he's the same Miller he always was - he just let the garbage pile up for five weeks in parks and arenas to save some money. So much for the environmental mayor. Force businesses to have a green roof on their buildings, charge a nickel for shopping bags, and dump trash in a park. It all balances out.

I *would* tell my councillor to vote against the ratification, but my councillor was hired as part of Miller's "team" and is therefore in his pocket. No amount of letters will stop him from voting in favour of it.

 

[Kabuki Waq]

So the concession was a few different ways to grandfather the sick day bank instead of just the immediate buyout? Whatever, the sick day bank is dead going forward. That's pretty much a win for the city.

no way. Existin exployees still get their sick days and 6 % over 3 years. Miller needs to go. After Miller went public with the first offer and wasting 36 days this is all he could get?

 

[Kuro Madoushi]

:/

Man...so many strikes since I came back to Toronto. York U, LCBO, and now this shit.

York and LCBO didn't affect me that much since I don't drink a lot and don't go to York.

York's strike was...pretty stupid IMO.
LCBO was ridiculous as they had a ton of workers that were 'part-time' but worked full-time hours to avoid benefits and to make them easier to get rid of (allowed you to control budget by lowering hours).
Garbage strike is really really lame. While I hate Miller (why'd he get in office anyway? THIS is the guy we go to after Mega Mel?), the unions are worse. I can't believe they'd make me wait when there was nobody else around. If they wanted support, they'd treat the general populace better at those dump sites. This fight is between you and Miller, not the individual people of Toronto. The nerve of that guy..."you have to wait here for a few minutes." "Why? There's nobody here" "Because that's just the way things work"

And the way we're treating each other is no better. We don't WANT to litter on the street, but there's not really much of an alternative when you have garbage that you don't want to lug around all day.

 

[YakiSOBA]

unfortunately they have to treat the regular populance like shit, because thats how they can most effectively get their message across... since the populance decides who stays in business politics wise...

<3 ottawa! it may be quiet and not have the big nightlife scene, but if you have a solid group of friends and a few pitchers of beers at a downtown bar on a fri/sat night, you are guaranteed goodtimes!

 

[Azih]

Not exactly. It's going to be a long time before there are enough new hires that we feel the sick bank is dead. Taxpayers will still be paying for the sick banks of the existing workers for years. There's a recession now, as opposed to by the time the change will be felt.

Well the initial offer was that the existing employees would get their sick days bought out so we would have been paying to get out of that contractural obligation anyway. All that's different is that now they have the choice of taking the cash or keeping their bank. *shrug* taxpayers would have paid either way but yet another union has caved on the ridiculous sick day bank concept which should never have been there in the first place.

6% over 3 years is bull in the economy true, but it's really peanuts still.

 

[Kabuki Waq]

Well the initial offer was that the existing employees would get their sick days bought out so we would have been paying to get out of that contractural obligation anyway. All that's different is that now they have the choice of taking the cash or keeping their bank. *shrug* taxpayers would have paid either way but yet another union has caved on the ridiculous sick day bank concept which should never have been there in the first place.

6% over 3 years is bull in the economy true, but it's really peanuts still.

but existing employees can still bank sick days correct?

 

[The Interrobanger]

:/

Man...so many strikes since I came back to Toronto. York U, LCBO, and now this shit.

York and LCBO didn't affect me that much since I don't drink a lot and don't go to York.

York's strike was...pretty stupid IMO.
LCBO was ridiculous as they had a ton of workers that were 'part-time' but worked full-time hours to avoid benefits and to make them easier to get rid of (allowed you to control budget by lowering hours).
Garbage strike is really really lame. While I hate Miller (why'd he get in office anyway? THIS is the guy we go to after Mega Mel?), the unions are worse. I can't believe they'd make me wait when there was nobody else around. If they wanted support, they'd treat the general populace better at those dump sites. This fight is between you and Miller, not the individual people of Toronto. The nerve of that guy..."you have to wait here for a few minutes." "Why? There's nobody here" "Because that's just the way things work"

And the way we're treating each other is no better. We don't WANT to litter on the street, but there's not really much of an alternative when you have garbage that you don't want to lug around all day.

The LCBO didn't strike.

 

[Azih]

but existing employees can still bank sick days correct?

They can choose to keep banking or take the original buyout. It's a monetary hit either way, delayed in the case of the keep banking option.

 

[Kabuki Waq]

They can choose to keep banking or take the original buyout. It's a monetary hit either way, delayed in the case of the keep banking option.

but if they keep banking it continues the hit gets larger. Miller should have had all existing sick days bought out and no more banking for ANY employees.

 

[Azih]

but if they keep banking it continues the hit gets larger. Miller should have had all existing sick days bought out and no more banking for ANY employees.

*shrug* the sick day bank is dying and that is a major thing. The new agreement is better for the city than the older one was. The only thing the union won was to get the bank to die slower, I have no idea how that is considered a victory for them.

 

[Zombie James]

There's only one solution, really: Start firing the older workers.

 

[Kabuki Waq]

*shrug* the sick day bank is dying and that is a major thing. The new agreement is better for the city than the older one was. The only thing the union won was to get the bank to die slower, I have no idea how that is considered a victory for them.

definately not a huge win for the mayor in any way shape or form. The specially considering the first offer that was made public. After 36 days I expected a lot more. The ridiculous sick days dying was a given IMO. I think the Mayor just Caved in. I mean really the Union threatening to walk off the table? really? what a joke.

 

[Azih]

definately not a huge win for the mayor in any way shape or form.

It's definetly not a win for the union. They lost an extremely lucrative benefit for their members. Their new contract is better for the city and worse for the union members than the previous one. So yeah.

The specially considering the first offer that was made public.

What's that got to do with anything? Especially since the wage increase the union got is very similar to the one Miller proposed in public.

The ridiculous sick days dying was a given IMO.

Really? A Union giving up a huge perk for its members was a given? ESPECIALLY in a situation where other unions with similar benefits didn't give them up in negotations earlier in this very year? Dude, where's this O of yours coming from?

I mean really the Union threatening to walk off the table? really? what a joke.

Are you going by rhetoric rather than substance in this? The raises are pathetic by previous standards and by the standards set by other union deals and the sick day bank is dead, just dying slower than the initial offer stipulated.

Edit: Further Union bosses are elected politicians as well from within a union and have to save face and engage in PR spin to contest the next election just like any other politician. These guys were demanding the same kind of settlement the police got and got nothing even remotely similar.

 

[Rhino]

I'm not your friend, buddy!

I'm not your buddy, guy!