• Hey, guest user. Hope you're enjoying NeoGAF! Have you considered registering for an account? Come join us and add your take to the daily discourse.

Olympic luger Nodar Kumaritashvili dies after crash

Status
Not open for further replies.
F

Funky Functionality

Member
Wow, Perspicacity. Wow.


I had no idea there was video of this accident since it occurred during a practice session, but I just saw the raw footage on ABC's site. They even replay it in slow motion.

:(
 
I

iamblades

Member
matt404au said:
You seem to be ignoring the fact that someone DIED due to the insufficient safety measures/poor design. When that happens, yes, it IS negligence.
Click to expand...

I'd be hesitant to blame track designers/engineers for failing to make an activity that is inherently unsafe safe.

It's a dangerous sport, that's just how it is. The timing of the accident makes people want to find someone to blame, but if it had happened a year ago in training, it wouldn't even make the news.
 
G

Guardian Bob

Member
DarkJediKnight said:
WHY THE FUCK IS THERE NOT A NET NEAR A TURN LIKE THAT!!!! DID THEY NEVER REALIZE THAT THOSE GIANT POSTS ARE A HAZARD IN CASE SOMEONE WIPES OUT???
Click to expand...

Nets would be a good idea, but then he would fall back on the ice and i can see that hurting just as much. Freak accident happen in every sport.
 
S

speedpop

Has problems recognising girls
iamblades said:
I'd be hesitant to blame track designers/engineers for failing to make an activity that is inherently unsafe safe.

It's a dangerous sport, that's just how it is. The timing of the accident makes people want to find someone to blame, but if it had happened a year ago in training, it wouldn't even make the news.
Click to expand...
Sad but true. What will come out of this though is that safety precautions might be much more invested to try and stop these things from occurring at the tail-ends of corners. It takes an accident of mammoth proportions to change the way a sport runs - same thing happened with F1 when Ratzenberger and Senna died a day apart on the San Marino track.
 
Papa

Papa

Banned
KHarvey16 said:
No, you are making the claim that there can be no technical limitation in place that makes adding some kind of barrier detrimental. You are sure of this and I want to know why.
Click to expand...

That is not what I said. Don't put words in my mouth. I said that it's unacceptable for the track to be okayed when it is clearly unsafe. This was not some freak accident. There have been twelve other incidents on this track alone.

Officials have already stated that they are considering plexiglass barriers, indicating that it was most likely a financial issue in the first place and that there were no technical limitations, as you suggest.
 
M

Mush

6.0
speedpop said:
Sad but true. What will come out of this though is that safety precautions might be much more invested to try and stop these things from occurring at the tail-ends of corners. It takes an accident of mammoth proportions to change the way a sport runs - same thing happened with F1 when Ratzenberger and Senna died a day apart on the San Marino track.
Click to expand...
But even as safe as Formula 1 is now, accidents still happen. You only have to look at Massa's incident at Hungary, and the two marshals who died within a year of each other to see that the sport is not completely foolproof. Even if the corner had been safer, he still might have died or been hurt at that speed.
 
K

KHarvey16

Member
matt404au said:
That is not what I said. Don't put words in my mouth. I said that it's unacceptable for the track to be okayed when it is clearly unsafe. This was not some freak accident. There have been twelve other incidents on this track alone.

Officials have already stated that they are considering plexiglass barriers, indicating that it was most likely a financial issue in the first place and that there were no technical limitations, as you suggest.
Click to expand...

Your statements left no room for the allowance of technical limitations. I didn't put words in your mouth, apparently I just told you what you were actually saying.

They are considering it, which doesn't mean they've installed them. Perhaps barriers were considered during construction and left off for any number of reasons. Their presence could have introduced other safety issues. Maybe the track was modeled and the danger was considered too small to obstruct views on that part of the track. Maybe they'll re-examine and come to another conclusion.

The problem I have is with just automatically assuming that everyone is stupid and the only possible reason for it not to be there is that the engineers are incompetent and the management are greedy and care nothing for safety. Decisions are never that simple in real life. I guarantee you that there are a thousand variables neither you nor I can even begin to consider because we know nothing of the design considerations of a luge track or this track in particular.
 
S

Socreges

Banned
Ignis Fatuus said:
Holy shit, Canada!

I like how it's just chilling with the spectators nearby.
Click to expand...
You gonna get to work updating that tag post of yours, or what? Looking a bit stagnant these days!
 
I

Ignis Fatuus

Banned
Socreges said:
You gonna get to work updating that tag post of yours, or what? Looking a bit stagnant these days!
Click to expand...
I got banned for bringing my anti-Canada crusade to threads not related to Canada, so I've been out of commission for a while.

I will say that I'm tempted to add the opening ceremony to the list.

Bear spectators are kind of awesome, however, so they don't make the cut.
 
I

Iknos

Junior Member
Pimpwerx said:
Rensselaer Polytechnic Institute, and if you were and engineer, you'd know that Statics is usually part of core engineering. I say again, these things aren't put in there to support phantom structures. Those pillars are loaded, hence they are there for a reason.
Click to expand...

Do these institutions have a "common sense" class? Not an attack against you or your school but throughout history we have seen so many engineering and design blunders that it makes you wonder.

If you think I find this funny, then come over to the Motorsport thread some time. THESE ARE THE ACCEPTED RISKS OF PARTICIPATING IN THESE TYPE OF TIME TRIAL SPORTS. Jesus titty-fucking Christ. You think I want to see people die? I'm just not stupid enough to blame poor track design when I haven't the first damn clue what those pillars are supporting.
Click to expand...

Then you should know that they don't put tire walls just anywhere. There are considerations into play like..."what if his brakes fail just before the chicane and he has to plow through it?".

You would think that a similar consideration would be make for luge tracks as they are like road race tracks. "What if the guy loses it upon exiting this corner?".

Joates said:
I admit, I havent heard a lot of the concerns, most Ive seen is just in regards to the speed of the track, which, to me, doesnt seem like a safety concern in and of itself (the pillars are a completely different story).
Click to expand...

As pimpwerx alluded to...some forms of auto racing have limited speed as a safety consideration. In auto racing a difference of 10mph can make a big difference in your braking distance. Sometimes high speeds are just too much for the equipment like tires and brakes. Higher speeds can mean less control.

Seems like the bigger issue here is that the corner was too tight for the speed he was going at.

o0c5ll.jpg


There are tight turns early on but I do not think he would be going that fast at those portions.
 
S

Socreges

Banned
Ignis Fatuus said:
I will say that I'm tempted to add the opening ceremony to the list.
Click to expand...
But that was an actual failure. That actually does reflect poorly on Canada. The list right now, as is, just reads as parody (or ignorance, I can't be sure). Including reality would only serve to confuse.
 
I

Ignis Fatuus

Banned
Socreges said:
But that was an actual failure. That actually does reflect poorly on Canada. The list right now, as is, just reads as parody (or ignorance, I can't be sure). Including reality would only serve to confuse.
Click to expand...
Think of the opening ceremony as one big bag of milk.
 
S

Socreges

Banned
Ignis Fatuus said:
Think of the opening ceremony as one big bag of milk.
Click to expand...
Dunno, dude. We don't get those in B.C. It's a regional thing. They actually have them in certain American states, but not here.

This is what I'm talking about.
 
E

exarkun

Member
I would really appreciate it if we kind of just let the topic die. I watched the video when the thread just popped up and saw the picture in the NY Times and this is just the worst thing I've seen in a while.

I don't know why it disturbs me so much (with Haiti and everything going on) but maybe its because of the video or picture or maybe it is because he is my age. I just don't want to be reminded of it. And out of respect for the family take the vid down I think (talking about the major networks that showed it). There is nothing in it for the casual viewer.
 
B

big_z

Member
i think those of you saying to put nets, plexiglass and other safety shit on the track should read Pimpwerxs posts. i was going to create a similar post but thankfully someone beat me to it.

the tracks are designed the way they are for a reason. sure having steal beams outside of the track doesnt seem like a good idea but it's nothing out of the ordinary, luge tracks in the past have had solid objects right next to the track.

the dude fucked up the turn and had a horrible crash, simple as that. this type of stuff happens in this sport only difference is it's at the olympics this time and everyone is covering it.
 
S

Socreges

Banned
big_z said:
i think those of you saying to put nets, plexiglass and other safety shit on the track should read Pimpwerxs posts. i was going to create a similar post but thankfully someone beat me to it.

the tracks are designed the way they are for a reason. sure having steal beams outside of the track doesnt seem like a good idea but it's nothing out of the ordinary, luge tracks in the past have had solid objects right next to the track.

the dude fucked up the turn and had a horrible crash, simple as that. this type of stuff happens in this sport only difference is it's at the olympics this time and everyone is covering it.
Click to expand...
Pimpwerx was thoughtful, a lot more thoughtful than other people, and that has to be appreciated. But he admittedly did not take into account that it was the final turn in the course. Therefore his analysis is largely moot.

Olympic officials decided to raise the wall where he flew off and even change the ice some.

At the same time, they're covering their asses and saying it was the athlete's fault. I'm sure it was, in part. He made an error. He paid dearly for it. But can't they anticipate such a mistake and guard against it being a fatal one?* Either way, they've changed it now and I'm sure the governing bodies will be more thorough in the future.

* It's like saying hockey players that suffer concussions from hits should merely keep their heads up, rather than also going after the players that elbow others in the head.
 
A

Aspiring

Member
Verano said:
Nodar Crash video
Scroll down for video
PS:Not for the faint
Click to expand...

Fuck me dead dude PLEASE edit this out. Not for the video, but the sickening pictures. I feel like vomiting fuck me dead. And no im not kidding. What sort of sick fuck would take photos when the poor man is dieing?!?! What is the fucking world coming to.

RIP Nodar. Poor poor man. Hope his family and friends are well and safe.
 
H

Holepunch

Member
I'm just wondering out loud here. I get the whole "sledding is a dangerous sport" which means we should expect to have some accidents now and then. Having the wall lower is to encourage racers take turns accordingly to how much speed their willing to sacrifice while still going for an Olympic time. If all the walls were high then there would be less sport in it as it would just be going downhill as fast as possible without trying to keep as much control.

Basically, my idea is to make all the walls high, but paint a non-static red line going down the entire track on either side. The racer must stay in-between the lines, and if they're blade overlaps the line then their time is disqualified. The red lines should represent where the lower walls would be naturally. If however they go over the line they can still safely make it to the end without running the risk of going over a wall.

Edit: Seeing some of the photos here (not brave enough to watch the video) it looks like I'm thinking more a bobsledding track than this.
 
C

Cereal KiIIer

Member
Holepunch said:
I'm just wondering out loud here. I get the whole "sledding is a dangerous sport" which means we should expect to have some accidents now and then. Having the wall lower is to encourage racers take turns accordingly to how much speed their willing to sacrifice while still going for an Olympic time. If all the walls were high then there would be less sport in it as it would just be going downhill as fast as possible without trying to keep as much control.

Basically, my idea is to make all the walls high, but paint a non-static red line going down the entire track on either side. The racer must stay in-between the lines, and if they're blade overlaps the line then their time is disqualified. The red lines should represent where the lower walls would be naturally. If however they go over the line they can still safely make it to the end without running the risk of going over a wall.

Edit: Seeing some of the photos here (not brave enough to watch the video) it looks like I'm thinking more a bobsledding track than this.
Click to expand...

They use the same.
 
C

Cereal KiIIer

Member
Kak.efes said:
If you're hurdling towards anything at 145km/hour, you're fucked. That wall isn't gonna make a huge difference.
Click to expand...

They are not going toward the wall FFS. The worst that could happend is them riding it until they go back down.
 
M

Mr. Durden

Banned
Slurmer said:
you win some, you luge some
Click to expand...
:lol :lol Can't stop laughing... fuck

Seriously though, this is the saddest thing. Boy trained his whole life for this one moment, sacrificed everything just to go to the olympics, and before it even starts he dies in a training accident? Talk about unfaire. Where's God now huh
 
eclipze

eclipze

Member
it's hard to watch the video. so sad :/


on a side note, did they disable searching on the forum? i'm trying to find the dexter thread from last season. ugh.
 
A

Artadius

Member
Cereal KiIIer said:
Finally some common sense.




ivwbbk.jpg
Click to expand...


Thank goodness. And for folks already chiming about hitting this wall... Someone careening down the tracking would not hit this wall straight on (like the rider last night hit the pole straight on). Riders wipe out frequently going 80+ on these tracks but they don't die when they hit the walls because they're not smashing directly into them... they're careening down them as they continue to move down the track.

I think it is safe to say they recognize the previous design was flawed and are correcting it.
 
D

Diagol

Member
I just finished watching a portion of the opening ceremony and it was really touching when they announced the athletes of Georgia (and how everyone stood up and cheered).

It was really, really sad seeing the guy's scarf on their flag, combined with the athletes' faces and Michaelle Jean's facial expression when she was standing up. :(
 
M

MrHicks

Banned
Diagol said:
I just finished watching a portion of the opening ceremony and it was really touching when they announced the athletes of Georgia (and how everyone stood up and cheered).

It was really, really sad seeing the guy's scarf on their flag, combined with the athletes' faces and Michaelle Jean's facial expression when she was standing up. :(
Click to expand...

this on youtube?
 
R

Raistlin

Post Count: 9999
elseanio said:
Wow, I never seen much of this sport, what was his top speed?

So sad that a a simple net up the side of the track may have saved his life :(
Click to expand...

Really, I suspect it wouldn't have.

Either the net would not be attached strongly enough to it's frame, meaning he would have just gone through it consider the speed he was moving ... or, the net would be attached strong enough, and he would have been extruded through the fence (or hit one of the fence posts).
 
S

Socreges

Banned
Yeah, a net wouldn't have been able to stop him.

Kak.efes said:
If you're hurdling towards anything at 145km/hour, you're fucked. That wall isn't gonna make a huge difference.
Click to expand...
Of course it will. You understand physics. The luger would hit the wall, but still have plenty of force going forward. What happened yesterday was so destructive because it brought him to a complete, immediate stop.
 
A

Atrus

Gold Member
Watching the trial events today, I was wondering why the whole thing isn't just enclosed. Just take the track now and then turn it into a tunnel with some sort of clear plastic with removable partitioning to pull out the injured.

With the number of metal railings factored with the speed, if you screw up enough to launch yourself out of the track, you're dead or crippled.
 
S

Sadako Yamamura

Member
Mr. Durden said:
:lol :lol Can't stop laughing... fuck

Seriously though, this is the saddest thing. Boy trained his whole life for this one moment, sacrificed everything just to go to the olympics, and before it even starts he dies in a training accident? Talk about unfaire. Where's God now huh
Click to expand...

I don't that God intended humans to risk their life hurtling down a mountain at 150kmh in lycra.
 
B

Branduil

Member
http://sports.yahoo.com/olympics/vancouver/luge/news?slug=reu-lugesliders_pix&prov=reuters&type=lgns

“It was not a track issue, it was a driving error, 100 percent,” German Staudinger told reporters at the track during training. “We had issues like this before and that happens when you have so-called exotic sliders.

“The guys must know when they enter a track like this that it’s serious business, it’s not a joke,” he added. “The International Federation has to put much tighter rules into place to avoid this in the future.”

Staudinger, a former competitor who won bronze in the doubles events at the 1988 Winter Games in Calgary, said he shared the view of luge officials and Vancouver Games organisers that there was nothing wrong with the track.

“All the top athletes that are experienced and physically fit handled this track with no problems,” he said.

“If you compared with a slalom skier, you had a guy who needed to make a left turn and he went right. I don’t know exactly what happened to that slider in curve 16 but he was completely off line.”
Click to expand...

Stay classy Canada.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Similar threads

Did anyone else think that the Nintendo Wii was going to be the best selling console ever back then?
39
4K
Eddie-Griffin replied
Rio, one year after the 2016 Olympics (Spoiler: It's not good.)
2
95
19K
Phased replied
NTSB: SUV driver's unexplained actions caused fatal 2015 Metro-North crash
17
5K
FrankCanada97 replied
  • Locked
Rio Paralympics 2016: Iranian Para-cyclist dies following crash.
8
3K
Xun replied
Are Robinson helicopters too dangerous?
8
4K
Patrick S. replied
Top Bottom