On This Day - February Wrasslin' Thread of i hope WWE and TNA don't suck this month.
- Thread starter The Faceless Master
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I've seen Cena have good matches with Umaga, Khali and the Big Show (I happen to like Big Show but eh) are you telling me these are performers that are easy to work with?
I never get the Cena hate... no he doesn't have the edge of an Austin or a Rock, but I also feel that he doesn't try to be them. People may think the way he is booked, but that's not his fault.
Cena always comes off as the never say die attitude, fight until you can fight no longer.
I know folks have issue with the 5 moves of doom, and sometimes it is a pain, but everyone has their go home moveset from the best to the worst. Bret had it, Shawn has it, Hunter has it, Taker has it, Rey has it. But Cena seems to get the worst of it, the man put on a decent hour long match with Orton, he couldn't have done that with the same 5 moves, could he?
I never get the Cena hate... no he doesn't have the edge of an Austin or a Rock, but I also feel that he doesn't try to be them. People may think the way he is booked, but that's not his fault.
Cena always comes off as the never say die attitude, fight until you can fight no longer.
I know folks have issue with the 5 moves of doom, and sometimes it is a pain, but everyone has their go home moveset from the best to the worst. Bret had it, Shawn has it, Hunter has it, Taker has it, Rey has it. But Cena seems to get the worst of it, the man put on a decent hour long match with Orton, he couldn't have done that with the same 5 moves, could he?
Cena vs Umagajecclr2003 said:
Cena vs Swagger
Cena vs HHH
Cena vs JBL
Umaga wasn't a leader, Cena clearly led Swagger in their match and it put Swagger over, Cena and HHH had a great WM match, and Cena got over due to his feud with JBL and carried his weight fine during that feud.
How many catchphrases has Cena tried that has not gone over? I honestly can't think of one? How many times does Cena appear on a show and not get the biggest reaction, love or hate?
avatar299 said:
We can even add just about every Orton match Cena's ever had, the one television match with Big Show from last year, and fuck he even led Khali to a decent Title match back in what '07?
Even his Title rematch with Seamus a few weeks ago was a demn decent match considering how green Seamus still is.
The thing that's most annoying about Cena's "5 moves of doom" is that they never change or ever have even the slightest varience minus the FU getting reversed if the finish calls for it.
Trying to punch Cena after a couple of shoulder tackles is about as stupid as trying to powerbomb Billy Kidman. Yesterday, Cody was the first person I ever saw reverse that even temporarily.
Jericho and HBK had a feud that lasted from April to November a couple years ago and each wrestlers 5 moves of doom went differently in each match.
All Cena matches are Cena getting his ass kicked, 5 moves of doom(often twice) and whatever the finish is with maybe a fishermans suplex in there somewhere.
Edit: Oh and the legdrop now.
Trying to punch Cena after a couple of shoulder tackles is about as stupid as trying to powerbomb Billy Kidman. Yesterday, Cody was the first person I ever saw reverse that even temporarily.
Jericho and HBK had a feud that lasted from April to November a couple years ago and each wrestlers 5 moves of doom went differently in each match.
All Cena matches are Cena getting his ass kicked, 5 moves of doom(often twice) and whatever the finish is with maybe a fishermans suplex in there somewhere.
Edit: Oh and the legdrop now.
GoutPatrol
Forgotten in his cell
Penguin said:
Its been rare the past 3 years for a Cena match to be bad on a PPV.
MessieurCouchon
Member
Most people wouldn't be badmouthing Cena if he was a heel. Either that, or give the man a tight polo.
Heck the smarks over at the wrestling observer named him most charismatic! Really, he's not that fucking bad. I think he's a way better champ than the likes of jbl, psycho sid, diesel, yokzuna, ultimate warrior and the big show.
My girlfriend had never watched wrestling in her life and the first person she liked was John Cena. Not Edge, CM Punk, etc etc. You say he doesn't have "IT", but obviously he does. Sure, maybe the hardcore fans don't get why he's loved by the casuals so fucking much but hey it's ok. Wrestling is for more than just smarks. I think he's a decent evolution of hulk hogan. As much as I liked Hulkster back then during the golden age he always did the same shit. ALWAYS. I think John Cena Mixes it up a lot more than Hogan ever did. He will never be the Rock or Stone Cold or Shawn or Hitman..but why should he have to be?
PG WWE honestly doesn't bother me all that much. It's just a different era. Plus, there is always TNA and wrestling in bingo halls right?
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So anyhow, who will be the next Super Face of the WWE? It will probably be some heel like usual. Funny how it goes. You're a heel for long enough that one day people refuse to boo you. Or.... you start off as a face and can't go fucking nowhere until you become a full on bad guy.
My girlfriend had never watched wrestling in her life and the first person she liked was John Cena. Not Edge, CM Punk, etc etc. You say he doesn't have "IT", but obviously he does. Sure, maybe the hardcore fans don't get why he's loved by the casuals so fucking much but hey it's ok. Wrestling is for more than just smarks. I think he's a decent evolution of hulk hogan. As much as I liked Hulkster back then during the golden age he always did the same shit. ALWAYS. I think John Cena Mixes it up a lot more than Hogan ever did. He will never be the Rock or Stone Cold or Shawn or Hitman..but why should he have to be?
PG WWE honestly doesn't bother me all that much. It's just a different era. Plus, there is always TNA and wrestling in bingo halls right?
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So anyhow, who will be the next Super Face of the WWE? It will probably be some heel like usual. Funny how it goes. You're a heel for long enough that one day people refuse to boo you. Or.... you start off as a face and can't go fucking nowhere until you become a full on bad guy.
DKehoe
Gold Member
Cena isn't the problem, its how WWE uses him. He is good on the mic and decent in the ring (he's no Kurt Angle but people need to stop saying he is shit)and has gotten himself over huge. The problem is with how the WWE has booked him. If Cena one day magically disapeared from WWE they would do pretty much the exact same thing with someone else.
I'm not a Cena fan but I don't have the hate for him that many seem to.
I'm not a Cena fan but I don't have the hate for him that many seem to.
MightyHealthy
Banned
I like Cena, probably because I haven't watched enough to get annoyed with him.
From interviews and internet things I had seen/read about, he clearly has love and respect for "the business," and seems pretty damn knowledgable about the history of wrestling.
From interviews and internet things I had seen/read about, he clearly has love and respect for "the business," and seems pretty damn knowledgable about the history of wrestling.
Uhtred
Member
Are you guys serious? Cena is for the little kids.........My GF works as a treacher, and her 5th grade class wears his t-shirts.
You can't expect me as a 33 year old male to be entertained with him. Maybe its WWE's fault. The shows they put on are some of the worst since 1999-2000 WCW.
Thank god for TNA.
You can't expect me as a 33 year old male to be entertained with him. Maybe its WWE's fault. The shows they put on are some of the worst since 1999-2000 WCW.
Thank god for TNA.
shesha said:
Hulk Hogan was for little kids.
Hell most of us were in grade school/middle school during the whole nWo/DX/Attitude era and that's what made it cool for us.
So its not a knock on Cena, as much as it is you aging.
Anyhow, looks like Vince will be on ECW to address the big change that is coming. Curious what it is exactly.
The Faceless Master
Member
the lil kids love austin, bret, the rock, the nwo, sting, etcshesha said:
I hope its a name change and guys like Christian, Shelton, and Regal get put on legitimate shows so they can have viable competition. Guys like Tatsu, Ryder, Zeke, and Archer still have much room to grow. Ryder's gotten better, though, as at first I didn't care for his character.
re: Cena
My problem with him/his persona is how a wrestler, let's name Big Show because this happened, beats down Cena all match, and in the final minute he'll lock on an STF or lift up Show in the final draw to capture the victory. Basically no selling all the effects and holds throughout the match. This is not an isolated event, as it happens frequently.
As for his matches, I personally rarely enjoyed his stuff with HHH or Orton. Maybe its the watered down feeling of this angle sucks, or this feud has gone on far, far too long. But personally I just can't get the feeling of satisfactory in that. He can go well with guys like Teddy Graham and Swagger, but they're also up and coming guys who also deserve more limelight themselves (Vince's mindset on Swagger is fucking baffling). My favorite match he's had was probably with Michaels back a year ago when JBL/Michaels courtship was going on. To be fair, though, it's extremely uncommon to find a bad Michaels match. The best laid plans are to put him with guys that are more suited to him. He isn't Michaels, Bret, or Jericho who can make any match enjoyable, no matter if they're facing a cruiserweight, some average joe, or a big guy like Umaga or Mark Henry.
re: Cena
My problem with him/his persona is how a wrestler, let's name Big Show because this happened, beats down Cena all match, and in the final minute he'll lock on an STF or lift up Show in the final draw to capture the victory. Basically no selling all the effects and holds throughout the match. This is not an isolated event, as it happens frequently.
As for his matches, I personally rarely enjoyed his stuff with HHH or Orton. Maybe its the watered down feeling of this angle sucks, or this feud has gone on far, far too long. But personally I just can't get the feeling of satisfactory in that. He can go well with guys like Teddy Graham and Swagger, but they're also up and coming guys who also deserve more limelight themselves (Vince's mindset on Swagger is fucking baffling). My favorite match he's had was probably with Michaels back a year ago when JBL/Michaels courtship was going on. To be fair, though, it's extremely uncommon to find a bad Michaels match. The best laid plans are to put him with guys that are more suited to him. He isn't Michaels, Bret, or Jericho who can make any match enjoyable, no matter if they're facing a cruiserweight, some average joe, or a big guy like Umaga or Mark Henry.
I think Shelton and Regal benefit from being on ECW, we've seen them both on Raw and Smackdown, and they hardly go far. I mean at best, usually in the IC/US title picture, at least on ECW they are in the main event scene.Striker said:
The same thing could be said of Hogan, The Rock and even Stone Cold.
Its not a thing with Cena, its how the WWE... hell how most of wrestling book their faces. It would make NO SENSE for the face to be on the offensive the entire match, and then win nor do people wanna see a heel make a comeback.
Just for some examples, Hogan had his ribs broken by Bundy two weeks before Mania 2, and he still won a cage match. The Rock was tombstoned on a limo and made it back in 2 days, he was ran over in an ambulance by a semi-truck, Triple H was dropped from "40 feet" in a truck and still made it back.
So I never get why people act like Cena's Superman act is a new thing or that other popular faces haven't had it before.
Correct me if I'm wrong, but to my knowledge Cena and HHH have only fought each other 4 times in the span of what 5 years? How is that watered down?
I don't like HHH but I never thought his storylines with Cena were boring.
I can see the point with Orton, but that began to be a problem near the end of THIS year, does it negate all their matches before hand?
I am so confused by the first part of this, who is Teddy Graham? And why does it go on a mini-rant about Swagger?
CrunchinJelly
formerly cjelly
What you did there, I see it.Azuran said:See, Vince was right. Bret is a wash up has-been.
Hanging out with TNA people just proves Vince right.
BigKaboom2
Member
I say Danielson will carry NXT like Christian has carried ECW. I hope guys like Goldust and Kozlov aren't left out in the cold though.
The whole Bret thing came across very beneath him the other night. He looks old can't do much. Vince was correct about practically everything he said and the spitting. Sure it's for the show, it just seems strange.
As far as Cena goes I hate him and always have. He has never shown me an ounce of charisma or anything that went over genuine to me. One my my favorite moments was going to a PPV in his home town and watching him get jeered. I don't purposely hate him but find me something on YouTube then to prove me wrong...I just haven't seen it.
As far as Cena goes I hate him and always have. He has never shown me an ounce of charisma or anything that went over genuine to me. One my my favorite moments was going to a PPV in his home town and watching him get jeered. I don't purposely hate him but find me something on YouTube then to prove me wrong...I just haven't seen it.
GoutPatrol
Forgotten in his cell
CrunchinJelly
formerly cjelly
Isn't this basically what ECW has been doing?Penguin said:
Haven't they been doing some 'new superstar initiative' or something, where they invite local wrestlers on to the show? I haven't watched the show in a while, but I remember something very similar.
According to the newest news, I would hope those two are moved to create better feuds on the other two shows. Shelton is still young and has tons of talent. No need for it to go unnoticed on a show like ECW/NXT. Put him in the US Title or IC scene. I rather see him in feuds with Ziggler, Morrison, McIntyre, Miz, MVP and so on than hardly appearing on the current ECW.Penguin said:
I'm speaking in behalf of the match itself. I gave a Big Show match an example. One being the Submission match they had at that god-awful PPV. Big Show dominates a limb all match, Cena counters somehow beyond the Gods of the Galaxy (in Cole and Lawler's extraordinary commentary) and wins. Not that it simply shows he showed no ill-effects of the moves he's been done, but after acts like nothing was injured. I don't recall Austin and The Rock doing it near enough, or at least as much as I do Cena. Maybe its just times changing, but it is far more frequent now than prior.
Eh, just my personal preference. I haven't been enamored by Triple H for five or so years. He's just too stale for my liking. I said the same for Batista, but at least he's changed lately.
Teddy Graham is Ted DiBiase Jr, brother penguin.
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ECW on shortly. Will watch. Has Abe Washington been fired, yet?
worldrunover
Member
Just watched Raw. I know everyone was chanting Cena but I thought it would have been better if psycho Shawn came out and superkicked Batista. Not for it to lead to a feud but just because it would have been awesome.
CrunchinJelly
formerly cjelly
So they just advertised on ECW that this weeks SmackDown will have footage of what happened on Raw after the show went off the air...
...the pic they used showed Batista throwing Cena in to steel steps in the middle of the ring.
...the pic they used showed Batista throwing Cena in to steel steps in the middle of the ring.
If spoilers are to be believed, the Smackdown Elimination Chamber
~Edit~
That may be iffy, as one of the participants doesn't match up with the rest.
Smackdown Elimination Chamber Participants are Undertaker, CM Punk, John Morrison, R-Truth, Chris Jericho and Rey Mysterio
Surprised No Batista, but again if spoilers are to be believed, he gets himself counted out so assume he has some type of deal with Vince.
Light on the heels, but yeah looks like setting up Jericho to win.
Surprised No Batista, but again if spoilers are to be believed, he gets himself counted out so assume he has some type of deal with Vince.
Light on the heels, but yeah looks like setting up Jericho to win.
~Edit~
That may be iffy, as one of the participants doesn't match up with the rest.
British Monsoon
Member
Dragon Gate USA threatening legal action against TNA, The Young Bucks/Generation Me and possibly Davey Richards;
Gabe was clearly trying to one-up ROH in the first place by booking TYB & Davey for Mania weekend, knowing full well that ROH would want to book all those guys for what is traditionally one of their biggest doubleshots of the year. Then when TYB sign for TNA and Davey signs for ROH, Dragon Gate gets all pissy and starts suing people - also, the fact that ROH offered to let Davey work DGUSA's Mania weekend show and they turned them down is pretty hilarious, as is the notion of DGUSA suing on the back of verbal agreements. Unless there's any physical proof of either Davey or TYB agreeing to work DGUSA's Mania weekend then this'll go nowhere and smacks of bitterness. No one likes a sore loser.
Gabe was clearly trying to one-up ROH in the first place by booking TYB & Davey for Mania weekend, knowing full well that ROH would want to book all those guys for what is traditionally one of their biggest doubleshots of the year. Then when TYB sign for TNA and Davey signs for ROH, Dragon Gate gets all pissy and starts suing people - also, the fact that ROH offered to let Davey work DGUSA's Mania weekend show and they turned them down is pretty hilarious, as is the notion of DGUSA suing on the back of verbal agreements. Unless there's any physical proof of either Davey or TYB agreeing to work DGUSA's Mania weekend then this'll go nowhere and smacks of bitterness. No one likes a sore loser.
jecclr2003
Banned
avatar299 said:
Umaga wasn't a leader? He was pretty highly regarded for his ring work and ability to lead.
JBL is a better worker with a sense of psychology that Cena could never seem to grasp.
Swagger, it was serviceable. At best.
HHH vs Cena.. um HHH is going to go down as one of the best of all time. The guy can (and has) work with anyone and make it work well. Has HHH bored me to tears sometimes? Absolutely. But for the most part he has delivered in the ring.
And whomever brought up a match he had with Khali... just stop. It wasn't good by any stretch of the imagination.
Look I don't follow a wrestler because of whatever trademarked catchphrase they forcefeed the crowd. I follow them based on their abilities in the ring. If they can have you drop the veil of predetermination, even if just for a second.
For ME, Cena's never been able to do that. He has zero technical ability (which I'm a big fan of ring work, if you hadn't noticed), ability to sell and make it look as close to real as possible. It doesn't matter how much he gets beat down, he always look like nothing ever happened when the bell rings. That shit drives me NUTS. I don't care who does it.... it drives me bonkers. If a guy is working your arm the whole match.. then at least ACT LIKE IT. Ergh.
Is it his fault directly? Probably not, I'm going to chalk it up with not being trained right. I notice a LOT with the newer crop of talent. Physchology is a missing art now, and it's hurting the in ring product BIG TIME.
That's the last I'll say on that topic. Like who you like, but keep an open mind when someone gives their valid reasons for why they dislike them.
jecclr2003 said:
To be fair no one sells body injuries anymore. Like fucking no one. I was actually surprised that Ted actually had a match like that against Henry last Monday. Maybe it's too old school, but its a lost form for sure. Most people today find it boring.
heh, there is a botchamania video of Shawn and Hitman in the Wrestlemania Ironman match where Michaels works Brets arm the whole fucking match and the Hitman refuses to sell it :lol
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