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[SolVanderlyn]

Shichibukai are also a fundamentally flawed organization and several Marines have been seen to take issue with them and their existence in the past. Their protection and status is likely considered a lesser evil to letting them run rampant and creating even more chaos as full blown pirates, but it doesn't always work (Crocodile, Doffy, and to a lesser extent, Moria, for example). In fact, most Shichibukai we know of are portrayed as prone to betrayal, as stated above.

There's no real reason there have to be seven of them, but if you want an in-universe explanation it's likely that the number of powerful pirates willing to cooperate ended up at the number seven and the term Shichibukai came about as a result. After that it probably became a fundamental part of their status as an organization and they had to fill vacuums to save public face and keep the World Government organized.

 

[gundamkyoukai]

Talking about the yonko can't wait to get some back story on Kaido and Big Mom .
We know WB was around during Roger time , Shanks came to power afterwards and how BB became one .
But we don't have much info on Kaido and Big Mom

 

[Veelk]

That just brings up another question: why would the Marines seek to have a balance of power with the Yonkou? Wouldn't they want to overwhelm them? Retake the territories that they don't have?

 

[gundamkyoukai]

That just brings up another question: why would the Marines seek to have a balance of power with the Yonkou? Wouldn't they want to overwhelm them? Retake the territories that they don't have?

I really don't see how they can overwhelm them .
The Yonko rule the second half of the grand line so it's not like there power that spread out .
Plus the NW also full with other powerful pirates , if they retake a island there is nothing stopping the yonko from taking it back .

 

[Man God]

Seven warlords, seven seas is a pirate thing, though the One Piece world only has five seas! Six if you divide the grand line.

 

[SolVanderlyn]

Seven warlords, seven seas is a pirate thing, though the One Piece world only has five seas! Six if you divide the grand line.

Seven if you count All Blue

Dat early story hint

 

[Chariot]

Read it, don't watch






That paneling, that consistency. So easy to follow. You could see the entire fight play out just by looking at Vegeta's arms.

This Z-pattern for example is the perfect use of a fight in manga, drawing your eye from movement to movement in right to left

Toriyama always knew how to use the right lines, the right placement of character, and the right effects to ensure that his fights were easy to follow, had impact, and could convey movement. In its prime Dragonball is one of the most visually impressive mangas ever made. Toriyama could display a character nuance with just a simple gesture. He was the best in the game, even better than most now, and it's a shame the anime could rarely keep up.

Of course it's entertaining, but it went weak when it left DB and went into Z. The stregth of DB was the humour and funny material fights. But the Z fights weren't really good anymore. I loved them as kid, played often with friends. But that was kn the end neither martial arts nor quirky and intersting aupernatural abilities. There are just too many manga that manage fighting better.

That just brings up another question: why would the Marines seek to have a balance of power with the Yonkou? Wouldn't they want to overwhelm them? Retake the territories that they don't have?

The same reason why Otto bon Bismarck tried to establish a power balance in Europe. They can't beat them so they try to establish a kind of balance. I am sure the Marines could trash one Yonkou with all their force, but they have to maintain peace in their widespread territory and can't risk to be low on power to a extended war since there are other Yonkous and other strong pirates. That's why they so desperately try to turn steong pirates to their side.

Just look how they managed to fight Whitebeard in a defensive fight, but immideately stopped when a second Yonkou appeared.

 

[Veelk]

I just don't buy that the Marines are doing all they are capable of, and I don't see why.

First off, this balance of power against the Yonkou is crap. They don't have the force to counter the Yonkou, they have the force to counterbalance a Yonkou. They had all 7 Shichibukai and the entire Marine Fleet at their command and disposal, and they could barely or could not match Whitebeard's wrath (depending on how you take Blackbeards crew showing up as part of the marine force). Either way, they would have been utterly fucked if Kaido had showed up as he intended to, or if Shanks decided to keep the war going instead of stopping it. They came close to utter destruction and were only spared by the good will of another Yonkou. This is supposed to be balance?

In the SBS, Oda revealed he had 2 other pirates that were candidates for replacing Kuzan and Akainu. Besides that, the conscription order Akainu sent out somehow conscripted the 2 admiral level fighters, meaning they somehow have leverage on them to join, but had not used it until now. Then we have Garp who is supposed to be Admiral level, but remains Vice Admiral for...reasons. Meaning, before the whitebeard war, they could have had 3 more Admirals on the frontlines. Now, if they have that many people at Admiral level, why not promote them to that level? Why have only 3? If they want a show of power, then they could have atleast a few more that genuinely deserve the title, and more personas of power.

Now, the Shichibukai. It's hard to talk about them because people simultaneously argue they are useful as a deterrent while also noting how utterly useless they are because of their betraying tendencies. Now, it's worth noting that literally every single one of the Shichibukai, past and present, has in some form subverted the WG, either ignoring or outright contradicting orders. So they aren't reliable as actual allies, but they are worth it for the appearance of power. Okay, but in that case, what they need to do is keep a few genuinely powerful ones, and then get a bunch of Buggy's. They don't know Buggy is actually weak, but what they need to do is find of bunch of pirates of middling strength, then propoganda the fuck out of them, and then they can say they have their own privateer fleet that feels formidable, but is ultimately controllable. Or, they could just seek out strong pirates that will actually be loyal, which they can do by providing incentives other than "We'll ignore your crimes" which obviously they don't care that much about. Something like maybe "We'll protect your children". Roger probably would have been tempted by something like that, given the shit that happened with Ace. Or, hell, just be honest and go "Listen, we're out to fuck the Yonko, and we're willing to let you ally with us to that purpose. Now, you may not like us, but if we get the Yonko, all their territory would be up for grabs, and as a Shichibukai, you can take your pick" That will give no small number of pirates a bunch of power boners.

So, I'm not seeing a good explanation here. If they want to keep a 'balance' between the Yonkou, they fail because they could barely stop one. If they want to eventually retake their territories, then they are really dithering about on that front, because they can appear a lot stronger than they are now if they just were willing to open up more positions in both the marines and the Shichibukai. There are drawbacks to the latter, but given how Whitebeard trolled through them the last time they decided to rustle his jimmies, I don't really understand what they are trying to do if they're not strengthening themselves to deal with the Yonko's.

 

[Chariot]

Veelk, you should look more into historical military. In theory the admirals don't even be the strongest in the marine. You are not getting promoted for just being strong. Or at least you shouldn't.

Secondly: the Marines won the fight against Whitebeard, hands down. And he was called the strongest. They can also not call all their people together. They have to defend all borders of the empire and maintain patrols and guardposts to not have something else leak in. Imagine the fortress fallinh and the Black Crusade spilling in. No, no. Abaddon needs to be kept out.

 

[gundamkyoukai]

In the SBS, Oda revealed he had 2 other pirates that were candidates for replacing Kuzan and Akainu. Besides that, the conscription order Akainu sent out somehow conscripted the 2 admiral level fighters, meaning they somehow have leverage on them to join, but had not used it until now. Then we have Garp who is supposed to be Admiral level, but remains Vice Admiral for...reasons. Meaning, before the whitebeard war, they could have had 3 more Admirals on the frontlines. Now, if they have that many people at Admiral level, why not promote them to that level? Why have only 3? If they want a show of power, then they could have atleast a few more that genuinely deserve the title, and more personas of power.

It's not like making garp a admiral going to change anything .
He was fear even without that title and he said being a VA allows him to do what he wants .
So most likely being a admiral has other responsibility .
What we need to find out is what the 2 new admirals were doing before the timeskip and the reason they join ( we already know fuji reason )

 

[Chariot]

It's not like making garp a admiral going to change anything .
He was fear even without that title and he said being a VA allows him to do what he wants .
So most likely being a admiral has other responsibility .

I like to think that too, but then it's still questionable how irresponsible you have to be to not be promoted when Kuzan was.

 

[Veelk]

Veelk, you should look more into historical military. In theory the admirals don't even be the strongest in the marine. You are not getting promoted for just being strong. Or at least you shouldn't.

Secondly: the Marines won the fight against Whitebeard, hands down. And he was called the strongest. They can also not call all their people together. They have to defend all borders of the empire and maintain patrols and guardposts to not have something else leak in. Imagine the fortress fallinh and the Black Crusade spilling in. No, no. Abaddon needs to be kept out.

In real life, people aren't promoted based on how well they fight. In OP, if not their strength, then their perceived strength is how it's done, unless I'm somehow mistaken. Do you have any indication that it works otherwise within the OP universe? Because by all indications, that's all it seems

The one who dealt the killing blow was Blackbeard, specifically after he defected from the Shichibukai. The Marines, at best, can be said to have survived Whitebeard.

It's not like making garp a admiral going to change anything .
He was fear even without that title and he said being a VA allows him to do what he wants .
So most likely being a admiral has other responsibility .
What we need to find out is what the 2 new admirals were doing before the timeskip and the reason they join ( we already know fuji reason )

If the WG cares that much about Shichibukai PR, why wouldn't it care about Admiral's as well? Garp refused it, but they could have force it on him the same way they did Smoker, just so they could say "Hey look, we now have FOUR admirals instead of just 3!" Give it to him in name only if he just wants to do the same thing he's already doing, but they can boost moral this way.

 

[gundamkyoukai]

I like to think that too, but then it's still questionable how irresponsible you have to be to not be promoted when Kuzan was.

He was promoted but he refuse to the position.
I remember reading it in strong world chapter which is canon .

 

[B-Dubs]

It's not like making garp a admiral going to change anything .
He was fear even without that title and he said being a VA allows him to do what he wants .
So most likely being a admiral has other responsibility .
What we need to find out is what the 2 new admirals were doing before the timeskip and the reason they join ( we already know fuji reason )

Plus Garp may well be past his prime. Also, he may not even want to be an admiral. He's a little too carefree for the position anyway, at his current level he basically goes around doing what he wants. Besides, how do we know he's still in the navy? I doubt he'd get on with someone like Akainu. There's a lot of unknowns with him right now.

 

[gundamkyoukai]

IIf the WG cares that much about Shichibukai PR, why wouldn't it care about Admiral's as well? Garp refused it, but they could have force it on him the same way they did Smoker, just so they could say "Hey look, we now have FOUR admirals instead of just 3!"

As i said what difference would have that made ?
Would the pirates fear him more ?
All you doing is forcing more responsibility on someone that does not want it .

Plus Garp may well be past his prime. Also, he may not even want to be an admiral. He's a little too carefree for the position anyway, at his current level he basically goes around doing what he wants. Besides, how do we know he's still in the navy? I doubt he'd get on with someone like Akainu. There's a lot of unknowns with him right now.

Last time we had info on garp he was retired and training new marines .
Maybe he became a inspector like sengoku or still training marines.

 

[Veelk]

As i said what difference would have that made ?
Would the pirates fear him more ?
All you doing is forcing more responsibility on someone that does not want it .

The same difference having Shichibukai make
Yes. Bigger titles are more impressive sounding. I doubt that pirates themselves even know what admirals get to do, so they can easily just think it gives Garp more privileges. Thus, more power, thus more reason to fear him. Again, basic PR.
So? Since when does the WG give a fuck?

 

[B-Dubs]

As i said what difference would have that made ?
Would the pirates fear him more ?
All you doing is forcing more responsibility on someone that does not want it .

Plus it might push him into leaving the Marines and then they'd lose a lot more than just an extra admiral. Garp is a living legend, having him on the team is a lot more important than what rank he is.

The same difference having Shichibukai make
Yes. Bigger titles are more impressive sounding. I doubt that pirates themselves even know what admirals get to do, so they can easily just think it gives Garp more privileges. Thus, more power, thus more reason to fear him. Again, basic PR.
So? Since when does the WG give a fuck?

Garp is a living legend, making him admiral isn't going to make that any more impressive. His renown is basically at a point where it transcends titles.

 

[Veelk]

Plus it might push him into leaving the Marines and then they'd lose a lot more than just an extra admiral. Garp is a living legend, having him on the team is a lot more important than what rank he is.

Garp left because he was disillusioned with what the WG became after the death of his boy. I somehow doubt that he'd give equal response to...what, having fill out more papers? Hell, as I said, if it's that big an issue, he could be admiral in name only. The WG could arrange it that he is called that without the actual responsibilities he would alledgedly hate enough to desert damn organization over.

Garp is a living legend, making him admiral isn't going to make that any more impressive. His renown is basically at a point where it transcends titles.

I feel you're making things up to try and justify the argument. How do you even know this? Why would the WG have offered him the position of Admiral in the first place if he wasn't going to inspire more fear? Because as far as we can tell, Admirals and vice admirals perform the same duty. We're just assuming there is some distinction we haven't been told, but we have no real reason to assume even that.

 

[B-Dubs]

Garp left because he was disillusioned with what the WG became after the death of his boy. I somehow doubt that he'd give equal response to...what, having fill out more papers? Hell, as I said, if it's that big an issue, he could be admiral in name only. The WG could arrange it that he is called that without the actual responsibilities he would alledgedly hate enough to desert damn organization over.

Again, what prestige would come from making Garp an admiral? He's a living legend, he's bigger than pretty much everyone in the marines as it is. Garp's renown is on the same level as Gol D Roger's. Every pirate knows his name and fears him already. He could be a lowly grunt and every pirate on the planet would still run away from him if he came looking for a fight. Having him on the team is what matters, it's all that matters. He's reached a point where rank is irrelevant.

I feel you're making things up to try and justify the argument. How do you even know this? Why would the WG have offered him the position of Admiral in the first place if he wasn't going to inspire more fear? Because as far as we can tell, Admirals and vice admirals perform the same duty. We're just assuming there is some distinction we haven't been told, but we have no real reason to assume even that.

Admirals are also responsible for the Celestial Dragons. Remember? Attack a Celestial Dragon and a marine admiral will come and hunt you down. Part of their job is to be glorified body guards. No way in hell would Garp ever agree to that.

 

[gundamkyoukai]

The same difference having Shichibukai make
Yes
So? What do the WG care?

Because being a admiral means having more responsibility within the marines
For eg the admirals are the only one that can used a buster call or give other people permission to use it .
They are the ones you have to call if a Celestial Dragons gets attack and who knows what other responsibilities they have
Garp is still fear and respect and does his job with out being a admiral .

I feel you're making things up to try and justify the argument. How do you even know this? Why would the WG have offered him the position of Admiral in the first place if he wasn't going to inspire more fear? Because as far as we can tell, Admirals and vice admirals perform the same duty. We're just assuming there is some distinction we haven't been told, but we have no real reason to assume even that.

It was said right in the manga , you had WB call Garp a living legend .
His nick name is Hero of the Marines , he is also know for cornering roger many times.

 

[Squishy3]

probably just too much responsibility for garp, plus i imagine they'd make him eat a devil fruit if he became one and i'm sure he enjoys being able to swim

 

[Chariot]

I think Sengoku and Garp can do on the lower levels of Marine structure what they want, rank or not. They are still big names that are respected and the Marines probably rather have them fool around then to fight them. If Garps wants to train Marines nobody will interfere. At least better than having them on the enemy side.

Also some people really take it bad when they are used as Propganda figures. Look how being the star of the Wehrmacht turned out for Rommel. Also the Admirals wouldn't be more feared if there were more off them.

 

[Veelk]

Again, what prestige would come from making Garp an admiral? He's a living legend, he's bigger than pretty much everyone in the marines as it is. Garp's renown is on the same level as Gol D Roger's. Every pirate knows his name and fears him already. He could be a lowly grunt and every pirate on the planet would still run away from him if he came looking for a fight. Having him on the team is what matters, it's all that matters. He's reached a point where rank is irrelevant.

I don't know how to otherwise phrase this, but PR. Having him be admiral will make them think the marines, if nothing else, are using him to his full potential. If rank did not matter, they wouldn't have offered him the job in the first place. I mean, if they do order him to go protect hte Celestial dragons, what is he going to do? Say "No"? The WG is still his bosses, regardless of his title.

Admirals are also responsible for the Celestial Dragons. Remember? Attack a Celestial Dragon and a marine admiral will come and hunt you down. Part of their job is to be glorified body guards. No way in hell would Garp ever agree to that.

"I don't want to do that"
"Okay, we'll make it so you don't have to, just take the title."

I seriously think your making this responsibility nonsense to be a bigger deal than it is, but if it really is THAT much a problem, the above is literally all they'd have to say.

Besides, I don't think that's an official title, it's just to show how far things will go. It's not like they call in an admiral literally every time one of them gets hurt. That would make NO sense. The entire marine organization could be fucked over by a middling pirate who wants marines in certain places by just having disposable crew members attack 3 nobles at 3 different locations. Do that, and all of a sudden, the admirals have to drop everything and run to take care of some minor mook? The WG can't be that stupid.

It was said right in the manga , you had WB call Garp a living legend .
His nick name is Hero of the Marines .

I know he's a living legend, I just missed the part where his rank became immaterial and he is the equivelent of Marine Jesus who is untouchable and cannot be made higher. Besides, Hancock is called the Pirate Empress while definitively not empiring anywhere, so living legend can just be another way of aggrandizing him like the WG likes to do.

 

[Imperial Bishop]

Missed a lot of discussion in here.

Aren't we due for a new thread soon?

 

[Squishy3]

Also some people really take it bad when they are used as Propganda figures. Look how being the star of the Wehrmacht turned out for Rommel. Also the Admirals wouldn't be more feared if there were more off them.

assuming in the hypothetical scenario there would be more admirals and they were all equally as strong as they currently are, that'd also present a threat to the WGs "control" if there were split ideologies, the current system, there are 3 admirals, Fujitora is the only admiral who opposes the way things are currently done, so if he tries to stage some... thing, i don't know what, akainu and kizaru could probably put him down relatively easy since it'd be 2 > 1

aokiji's the wild card obviously, i find it hard to believe they'd just let him "leave" after fighting on punk hazard with akainu, surprised they didn't try to toss him in impel down

 

[gundamkyoukai]

"I don't want to do that"
"Okay, we'll make it so you don't have to, just take the title."

I seriously think your making this responsibility nonsense to be a bigger deal than it is, but if it really is THAT much a problem, the above is literally all they'd have to say.

Besides, I don't think that's an official title, it's just to show how far things will go. It's not like they call in an admiral literally every time one of them gets hurt. That would make NO sense. The entire marine organization could be fucked over by a middling pirate who wants marines in certain places by just having disposable crew members attack 3 nobles at 3 different locations. Do that, and all of a sudden, the admirals have to drop everything and run to take care of some minor mook? The WG can't be that stupid.

The rule is if you attack a Celestial Dragon a admiral would come for you that is the rules .
The marines work under the Celestial Dragons or the WG.
Most pirates\people don't touch the Celestial Dragon because of the fear of a admiral attacking them .
So i don't see why some mook going to touch one if they can find one knowing he going to get destroy .

I know he's a living legend, I just missed the part where his rank became immaterial and he is the equivelent of Marine Jesus who is untouchable and cannot be made higher.

People are asking you what making him being a higher rank going to matter .
Will making him a admiral make him more fear to pirates ?
He is know as a living legend , has the nick name hero of the marines , is know for cornering roger and fighting even with him .
You take away the responsibility of him being a admiral and you left with someone that could do the same job as a VA and is fear the same way .

 

[Veelk]

People are asking you what making him being a higher rank going to matter .
Will making him a admiral make him more fear to pirates ?
He is know as a living legend , has the nick name hero of the marines , is know for cornering roger and fighting even with him .
You take away the responsibility of him being a admiral and you left with someone that could do the same job as a VA and is fear the same way .

As mentioned above, you guys are taking that living legend line to way larger heights than it was intended. How many times have we heard people aggrandizing strong individuals? Just a few posts ago, we were discussing how little some pirate epitaphs make sense. Hancock sits on her ass, in her kingdom, yet is somehow the "Pirate Empress". Garp is famous and badass, I get it. What I don't get is the argument that that makes him immune to being used as good PR by the WG for having 4 admirals being as formidable as having 3.

The rule is if you attack a Celestial Dragon a admiral would come for you that is the rules .
The marines work under the Celestial Dragons or the WG.
Most pirates\people don't touch the Celestial Dragon because of the fear of a admiral attacking them .
So i don't see why some mook going to touch one if they can find one knowing he going to get destroy .

Dude...I don't know what to tell you. If you're seriously arguing that the marines are that moronically ridged in their operations, that horrifically stupid that they think it's a good idea to send their strongest warriors off every time some weakling dipshit punches a celestial dragon when there are lower ranking marines that would suffice, then it's a wonder that the half the marines don't die from forgetting to breathe. I mean, are you seriously going to defend this by suggesting there is a flaw in their system that is so myopic and exploitable that I can only surmise hasn't been used against them is because no one thinks the marines are dumb enough to actually adhere to it so literally?

Pirates could force pawns to just attack celestial dragon after celestial dragon to keep them busy. "Why would some mook touch one?" As I said, PAWNS. Threaten to kill their families if they do it or whatever, there are thousands of ways to coerce a person into a suicide attack.

I don't know what benefit you see in defending the WG from not making a smart decision by saying they have a rule (that they themselves can choose to not enforce) that, if true, would render the highest tier marines utterly useless in a real tactical sense. because they'd be forced to be hunting scrubs all day long.

 

[SolVanderlyn]

Missed a lot of discussion in here.

Aren't we due for a new thread soon?

One Piece Manga |OT2| Finally left Dressrosa

One Piece Manga |OT2| Awakening in the New World

One Piece Manga |OT2| Dangerously close to the anime

One Piece Manga |OT2| 5-6 Gomu Alliance

One Piece Manga |OT2| The Land of Samurai

One Piece Manga |OT2| Now featuring the rest of the cast

 

[gundamkyoukai]

As mentioned above, you guys are taking that living legend line to way larger heights than it was intended. How many times have we heard people aggrandizing strong individuals? Just a few posts ago, we were discussing how little some pirate epitaphs make sense. Hancock sits on her ass, in her kingdom, yet is somehow the "Pirate Empress". Garp is famous and badass, I get it. What I don't get is the argument that that makes him immune to being used as good PR by the WG for having 4 admirals being as formidable as having 3.

During the war at soon as garp did something you see pirates saying .
He finally step forward the legendary marine him self .
Everyone was talking about him until WB had to say he just a old man .
So the marines making garp a admiral not going to change anything is terms of him or the admirals being feared .
Maybe if they had the 3 old ones and add someone like fuji that is new and really powerful you would have a point but not garp

Also i don't see how you can say boa sits on her ass when the first time we saw her she now come back from stealing treasure .
And you also hear stories about her doing that also .

 

[Veelk]

In any case, this is getting away from the point. I 100% do not agree with the reasoning for garp at all, but for the sake of argument, lets say I concede the point and Garp being admiral would improbably not aid them. They could still call in atleast 4 others, between the two that Oda mentioned in SBS and Fujitora and the Green Bull. Somehow, they had the latter 2 under their thumb, but it took Akainu conscripting them to get them to join. They could have had way more admirals under their command, yet for some reason choose to not go with them. Even Akainu is adhering to the rule of 3. He has atleast 2 other admiral level candidates. Why not just make them admirals?

 

[Sibersk Esto]

Missed a lot of discussion in here.

Aren't we due for a new thread soon?

We aren't obligated to for at least 200+ more pages. 400 is the limit if I recall.

 

[gundamkyoukai]

Dude...I don't know what to tell you. If you're seriously arguing that the marines are that moronically ridged in their operations, that horrifically stupid that they think it's a good idea to send their strongest warriors off every time some weakling dipshit punches a celestial dragon when there are lower ranking marines that would suffice, then it's a wonder that the half the marines don't die from forgetting to breathe. I mean, are you seriously going to defend this by suggesting there is a flaw in their system that is so myopic and exploitable that I can only surmise hasn't been used against them is because no one thinks the marines are dumb enough to actually adhere to it so literally?

Pirates could force pawns to just attack celestial dragon after celestial dragon to keep them busy. "Why would some mook touch one?" As I said, PAWNS. Threaten to kill their families if they do it or whatever, there are thousands of ways to coerce a person into a suicide attack.

I don't know what benefit you see in defending the WG from not making a smart decision by saying they have a rule (that they themselves can choose to not enforce) that, if true, would render the highest tier marines utterly useless in a real tactical sense. because they'd be forced to be hunting scrubs all day long.

How would pirates attack celestial dragon after celestial dragon when there are at the holy land Mariejois.
Also if the mook attack a CD what stopping the admirals from wiping out the pirate crew he come from which kizaru was going to do to the SH .
From what we have seen the CD don't be all about the place running about and they have there own set of guards that can stop mooks also .
If the matter get resolve before the admiral get there he can just go back and leave it to other marines .

Also you seem to be forgetting that the CD could also go and kill there family or make them slaves etc etc
Side note it's a good thing OP don't go to deep into that stuff because the CD are despicable group of people that the marines have to back .

 

[SolVanderlyn]

In any case, this is getting away from the point. I 100% do not agree with the reasoning for garp at all, but for the sake of argument, lets say I concede the point and Garp being admiral would improbably not aid them. They could still call in atleast 4 others, between the two that Oda mentioned in SBS and Fujitora and the Green Bull. Somehow, they had the latter 2 under their thumb, but it took Akainu conscripting them to get them to join. They could have had way more admirals under their command, yet for some reason choose to not go with them. Even Akainu is adhering to the rule of 3. He has atleast 2 other admiral level candidates. Why not just make them admirals?

I really want those two SBS vice admirals to be canon, but the way they were presented seemed like a joke. Fans wrote in describing their names and position as admiral but Oda said they couldn't be admirals and demoted them to "admiral candidates" and drew pictures of them. So they're essentially fan creations with drawings by Oda.

I hope I'm wrong though. Momousagi (Pink Rabbit) is a great design and even follows the traditional Japanese actor (actress in this case - Michiyo Kogure) design that the rest of the admirals use.

 

[Bots are better than you]

Hmm, we don't know if there might be more admirals in the future.

There has been some ... working ... status quo with the Emperors, the Warlords and the Marines. The Emperors seemed to be fine with doing their own stuff around in the new world, and the Marines were fine with them keeping their sh*t back in the New World.
And for the aspiring rookies on the first Grand Line half, they had the Warlords.

With Ruffy taking out some big shot Warlords and Blackbeard actively trying to mess with the status quo, that situation has changed. Then there is the Revolution Army on the rise and some big shot gone rogue like Aokiji, some former Warlords and some of the prisoners from Impel Down's level 6, in addition to the former.

Who knows, there might be a change of plans with that 3-Admiral-rule as an answer to that chaos, or Akainu is/has been planning more Admirals from the beginning but needs an OK from those 5 old important dudes (forgot the name...)
I mean ... Akainu can't be happy with the way Fujitora handled the situation on Dressrosa, so he might get more Admirals who play along more with his "wipe out all pirates"-mentality.

 

[Imperial Bishop]

We aren't obligated to for at least 200+ more pages. 400 is the limit if I recall.

It took a little over a year to reach 200 pages. It might take another year to reach 400.
Although most of the discussions in this thread happened this year, so maybe sooner than that.

 

[Genryu]

Speaking of Admirals, I know it's probably already been discussed, but is there ANYTHING that actually limits Kizaru's abilities?

He can move at the speed of light, which I'm assuming would let him get to damn near anywhere in the Grand Line in a matter of minutes. Is his only real limiter the fact that he seems to be really carefree about everything?

 

[Neoriceisgood]

I would go with that, if I felt it didn't lack in the areas where there ought to be depth, like the character relationships between the strawhats.

Naruto went above and beyond bad though. Beyond the character dynamics not making sense, they were poisonous, like justification for abusive relationships, lack of repentance and...just plain nonsense, really. Sasuke's character stopped making sense when he decided ALL of Konoha had to die for dishonoring Itachi's memory, a situation Itachi specifically manufactured because he wanted keep Konoha safe. The mental gymnastics that we're intended to believe he took were insanity inducing and Naruto's basic response is to just be his stubborn self and go "nah, we still cool".

I stopped reading a little after that point, when things stopped making sense altogether. I keep meaning to reread the whole series, so I can fully digest the inanity and do the writeup of all write ups on how fucking putrid the storytelling is, but I can't seem to get around to it.



I don't think they do, other than a few people like Whitebeard.

You ever read Movie 6 btw?

I actually agree with you on the character relationships never going as far as I'd like,
one reason I enjoy water 7 a ton is because it's honestly the only arc in OP where I can legitimately say that the relationship between the strawhats becomes core to the narrative beyond the basic "which strawhat gets a backstory" element Robin got.

Simultaneously I can appreciate shallow relationships in a series that's generally fun and interesting even if I'd like more of it than we've got.


With Naruto & especially Fairy Tail, you take some of the problems OP has in this regard but increase the toxic morals by several hundred percent. Like, spoilers about Naruto: despite it making no lick of sense

Spoiler

Naruto & Sasuke totally end up friends again despite Sasuke being the same asshole until the final chapters.

 

[Imperial Bishop]

There's not much point in doing another Water 7 and having more deep in-fighting among the crew at this stage in the story.
It would mostly be a re-hash. The bond the crew shares has only gotten stronger after training for two years, which was not only to improve themselves, but to also selfishly aid their captain.

There will be the usual small arguments and disagreements, but it would really take some major character event or revelation to make one of the Straw Hats leave of their own will.

 

[Majukun]

Speaking of Admirals, I know it's probably already been discussed, but is there ANYTHING that actually limits Kizaru's abilities?

He can move at the speed of light, which I'm assuming would let him get to damn near anywhere in the Grand Line in a matter of minutes. Is his only real limiter the fact that he seems to be really carefree about everything?

while it can be something oda didn't really consider,he probably has to be able to see where he wants to go,since acting on reflex when you are traveling at the speed of light shouldn't be possible for the human brain
also there's always the (rare) possibility that someone with haki might try to intercept him while he is on the sea and make him fall and drown..he moves fats but rayleight wwas able to..so guys like backmann or some other emperor guy might be able too.

also..if he really moves at the speed of light,he can go anywhwere in the planet in a matter of instants,not minutes

 

[Genryu]

while it can be something oda didn't really consider,he probably has to be able to see where he wants to go,since acting on reflex when you are traveling at the speed of light shouldn't be possible for the human brain
also there's always the (rare) possibility that someone with haki might try to intercept him while he is on the sea and make him fall and drown..he moves fats but rayleight wwas able to..so guys like backmann or some other emperor guy might be able too.

also..if he really moves at the speed of light,he can go anywhwere in the planet in a matter of instants,not minutes

I was mostly giving the benefit of the doubt for the minutes, because I'm not sure exactly how big the world is in One Piece is, and with him not being able to think at the speed of light.

 

[gundamkyoukai]

while it can be something oda didn't really consider,he probably has to be able to see where he wants to go,since acting on reflex when you are traveling at the speed of light shouldn't be possible for the human brain
also there's always the (rare) possibility that someone with haki might try to intercept him while he is on the sea and make him fall and drown..he moves fats but rayleight wwas able to..so guys like backmann or some other emperor guy might be able too.

also..if he really moves at the speed of light,he can go anywhwere in the planet in a matter of instants,not minutes

Yep it seem his only problem would be haki users .

 

[Majukun]

also,if i remember correctly,when he moves for more than a couple meters he first uses that ray of light thing to track where he has to go..so the fact that he can't really direct himself mid-flight might not be a farfetch'd theory

 

[Chariot]

Weird to bring Fairy Tail up. That one works because it's super simple and never changes up the concept of friendship and willpower, it always works. Plus literal "a wizard did it". One Piece and Naruto are more ambitious than that, but it only worked out for one.

 

[LonelyGreyWolf]

Well, since it's part of Akainu's character, it should be considered. No reason not to talk about it.

What even?

You just yourself said that "something can be a persons job and still be morally repugnant" and that "if you posit that killing innocents is wrong, then it's hard to argue that that is nullified by the fact that he gets a paycheck for doing it".

So let me get this straight. You make up things that I said, claim that they are wrong, and when I say that I never even said those things, you say that there's no reason not to talk about them, even though I think they're irrelevant and you think they are wrong. Do you ever use logic?

But Akainu's own perspective should be considered. I don't feel he is a man who is concerned only is about destroying evil. Like, his perspective, as I understand it, is similar to Rorschach's from Watchmen in that he is so determined to destroy that which he sees as evil that he no longer is concerned with preserving good. So, theoretically, lets say there are two people, and one of them was going to murder the other. He sees the murderer as evil and will do anything to kill him. Meaning that if the only way he could kill the murderer is to kill the other person along with him, he'd do that, even though the only reason the would be murderer was evil was because he was going to kill the other guy.

Akainu has only ever been concerned about the WG's lethality against the dangers that other things pose. He was going to be willing to kill Luffy and Ace just for being the son of a pirate and revolutionary because piracy is in the blood, ignoring that they have as much marine blood in them as well. He killed or was going to kill a marine just because he didn't want to throw his life away attacking Whitebeard, who he wouldn't have been able to do anything against anyway.

So while it's debatable to talk about if sacrificing innocents for greater good can be morally right, that's not the dilemma that Akainu faces as far as I can tell. He's sacrificing innocents to eliminate evil.

For you first paragraph: too narrow. Akainu isn't a small scale police offer who acts on an individual level. The situation at Ohara is different. It's not about the murderer only having one target, it's about, like I posted earlier, the greater good. For whatever that's worth. By your example, murdering a person with potential access to a weapon that can destroy the world, would be the same as murdering that person and also the world (as your example states that you kill both the murderer and its target). It doesn't hold up.

Second paragraph: nope. He didn't kill Ace purely for being the son of a pirate. There was way more to that whole thing. He was a dangerous criminal, an execution had already been decided, there were high stakes, the worlds most powerful pirate was at the scene; just far more stakes. In either case, not that it matters anyway, him wanting to kill pirates for being pirates is neither strange nor wrong, really.

 

[gundamkyoukai]

When talking about the greater good it is always interesting to see which view people are talking from.
When we find out the true history i expect a lot of discussion going to happen about Ohara.

Either way don said it best during the war
Pirates are evil? The Marines are righteous? These terms have always changed throughout the course of history! Kids who have never seen peace and kids who have never seen war have different values! Those who stand at the top determine what's wrong and what's right! This very place is neutral ground! Justice will prevail, you say? But of course it will! Whoever wins this war becomes justice!

One of my all time favorite lines from the manga .

 

[LonelyGreyWolf]

When talking about the greater good it is always interesting to see which view people are talking from.
When we find out the true history i expect a lot of discussion going to happen about Ohara.

Either way don said it best during the war
Pirates are evil? The Marines are righteous? These terms have always changed throughout the course of history! Kids who have never seen peace and kids who have never seen war have different values! Those who stand at the top determine what's wrong and what's right! This very place is neutral ground! Justice will prevail, you say? But of course it will! Whoever wins this war becomes justice!

One of my all time favorite lines from the manga .

I'm not talking out of my own views, I'm talking out of the views of the marine. Like I mentioned earlier, to understand someones motives, you must put yourself in their shoes and try to imagine what their reasoning is.

And yeah, I always really liked that quote too. It's very interesting and actually pretty deep.

 

[Song of the Turtle]

Hey guys. I've been following One Piece since nearly 10 years and I finally decided to give Oda some of his well earned money. Anyway, just got the first manga box set and wanted to share it with you.

[img]http://i.imgur.com/1WK8E2Xh.jpg[/img]
[img]http://i.imgur.com/bMX7C4Nh.jpg[/img]
[img]http://i.imgur.com/xqdWpadh.jpg[/img]

This box is just amazing. Time to reread the whole series.
Has anybody here the whole collection? Would love to see how all the volumes look lined up.

 

[Bots are better than you]

I think the premise "one faction is good while the other is bad" was shown not to be true since the very first chapter, with Captain Morgan abusing his power as a Marines officer and the pirate Ruffy ending his regime.
But then there are enough evil/bad pirates like Blackbeard, Croc, etc. and enough "good" Marines like Corby, Smoker and Tashigi, etc.
Pretty sure the same can be applied to the Revolution, some are downright evil, some are fighting for a (possibly?) good cause.

So the world of One Piece and the different factions are pretty much a wild mix of good/bad on all sides.


Well ... excluding the Heavenly Dragons ... they are just arses! ^^

 

[LonelyGreyWolf]

Hey guys. I've been following One Piece since nearly 10 years and I finally decided to give Oda some of his well earned money. Anyway, just got the first manga box set and wanted to share it with you.

This box is just amazing. Time to reread the whole series.
Has anybody here the whole collection? Would love to see how all the volumes look lined up.

Looking good!

Yeah, I've got every volume; I've always had every volume as I've always been buying them I got a lot of the extra books too, like the data books (One Piece Blue, Yellow, Green, Deep Blue etc.) and art books (the Color Walk books). Got a whole bunch of One Piece merch too.

I've read every book more times than you could ever imagine People who only read One Piece online will never understand the feeling of having the actual books.

I think the premise "one faction is good while the other is bad" was shown not to be true since the very first chapter, with Captain Morgan abusing his power as a Marines officer and the pirate Ruffy ending his regime.
But then there are enough evil/bad pirates like Blackbeard, Croc, etc. and enough "good" Marines like Corby, Smoker and Tashigi, etc.
Pretty sure the same can be applied to the Revolution, some are downright evil, some are fighting for a (possibly?) good cause.

That's not the point. No one claimed that to be the case, and it's been clear throughout the whole manga that there are "good" and "bad" pirates and marines.

 

[SolVanderlyn]

Actually there seem to be far more bad pirates than good, which makes sense I suppose.

There also seem to be more good Marines than bad.

There are definitely shades of black, white and grey on both sides, however. I always liked how Aokiji and Akainu represent two different views of justice within the marines. Akainu is the biggest jerk in the series and even he isn't completely evil - he thinks he's doing the right thing, even if he's a radical extremist.