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[Squishy3]

Yeah like Oda is pretty bad at letting female characters get the spotlight but we don't know how much could be editorial mandating certain things and feeling shackled by his large success in how he's written them up to this point that he might be afraid to try changing things up significantly. (or bat down by editorial if he suggests something) I'm not trying to make excuses for him, but there could be any number of circumstances involved. I don't have any personal dislike for the way it's handled, it doesn't really impact my enjoyment of One Piece but it'd be nice if they got more battles post-timeskip.

I don't know how many are familiar with Jojo's (and I see cntr brought it up specifically) but Araki's on record stating how editorial influence affected how he wanted to handle Lisa Lisa in Battle Tendency:

"Araki personally admits that he's fond of female characters who are capable of fighting for themselves. He commented on his intents to have Lisa Lisa portrayed with "uncommon realism" for women in shounen comics, but he was held back from going as far as he would have liked with her."

Jojo spoilers for part 2 (second half of the 2012 series) begin here, albeit I'm not sure if I should tag them or not considering it's for something that aired 4 years ago and was originally released nearly 30 years ago, but I'll do it anyway.

Spoiler

It ends up building towards one-on-one fights for the main characters against the big villains, and Joseph handily wins his against a "lackey" (even though he's not specifically a lackey, it's the best term to describe his role in the story at this point) and Lisa Lisa goes on to fight the final big bad, but promptly jobs, is used to play air guitar and then is tied to a string to make Joseph have to choose between saving her and fighting the big bad.

People generally think Lisa Lisa was meant to beat up the villain, but during the fight he steals the macguffin she's carrying to power himself up and leading into the final confrontation as it would normally have occurred, but with Araki's comments about her (And these were made in 2007, while Battle Tendency was finished in 1989) that somewhere along the line someone meddled and he didn't get to do what he wanted with the character.

But then as posted above Stone Ocean happened and for the majority of the story the main cast focuses on women with more male characters joining in as it goes on but with Jolyne still being the primary focus and one of the best protagonists the series has to offer.

 

[cntr]

Yeah, editors messing with Oda is a possibility.

On the other hand, My Hero Academia gets away with having story and battle-important characters be women (among other things), so I don't know how much that's true of Jump's current editors.

 

[Squishy3]

Yeah, editors messing with Oda is a possibility.

On the other hand, My Hero Academia gets away with having story and battle-important characters be women (among other things), so I don't know how much that's true of Jump's current editors.

Well it could have been when he was first starting and it's just subconsciously there in the back of his mind or the formula's so successful at this point that he/they don't want to risk changing anything too drastically.

It'd be nice if we had more of the female crew either teaming up with the male Strawhats or even just Nami/Robin teamups. Kalifa/Nami rematch is probably going to happen at some point though.

 

[cntr]

As an aside, both Jojo and MHA's authors are influenced by modern western culture and media, and their manga correspondingly lean western and modern in writing styles. I'm not sure how much that influences their writing, and if older, more purely Japanese, manga like One Piece or Naruto do so badly because of that.

(yes Jojo is technically older than One Piece, but it's still true)

 

[smurfx]

Only thing is I don't see Luffy allying himself with an Emperor. Takes away from his Pirate King cred.

i still like my theory of big mom taking most of luffy's and possibly the other strawhat's life force and telling them she will only return it if they defeat kaido. that allows luffy to return to his original goal of defeating kaido but with added purpose rather than just defeating kaido because law told him to. also bonney might be the counter to big mom depending on how her devil fruit works. she will become a big part of the story at some point. hopefully she is big mom's daughter so she shows up at the wedding.

 

[cntr]

Speaking of Big Mom's power, I wonder what that implies about Brook's power.

Big Mom's power implies souls have "lifespans", and that she shortens them. Brook died. What happened to his soul? Does his soul have infinite lifespan? Negative lifespan? A new lifespan counter? Does the concept not even hold for him? Is he truly undead? Does he have complete control over his own soul? Does that mean Brook will never die of old age, only injury?

 

[Principate]

If you read my first comment after this chapter you wil see that I thought Chopper was being Captain Obvious when he said "we underestimated Big Mom". And I can't wait to see how they will escape this mess.

I am open minded to the possibility of Luffy receiving unexpected allies or that he will defeat her in a non conventional way. I trust Oda to surprise us. People always think that Luffy defeating his enemies is impossible, that happened against Crocodile, against Enel, against Rob Lucci, etc.

Luffy finds a way, that's what Oda has been telling us all along. Let's wait and see. But I really want Big Mom to go down in this arc, if this is only about saving Sanji and getting a copy of the poneglyph, then it will be pretty underwhelming imo.

I never thought that with any of them, because it it's obvious he would. The problem isn't Luffy finding the way, it's that it's really poor story telling for Luffy to defeat a character that's been hyped what is getting close to a decade now with like a quarter of his effective crew strength while going all out against another character that's supposed be in he same tier. The fact that it's the most powerful female character makes it all the more worse.

As an aside, both Jojo and MHA's authors are influenced by modern western culture and media, and their manga correspondingly lean western and modern in writing styles. I'm not sure how much that influences their writing, and if older, more purely Japanese, manga like One Piece or Naruto do so badly because of that.

(yes Jojo is technically older than One Piece, but it's still true)

TBF Jojo wasn't great with women for a long ass time either. In fact Jolyne was a main character partly because of Araki's notice of that. One Piece isn't going to change MC but it would take Oda actively noticing and changing his story to revert course a bit. Either way a lot hinges of his treatment of big mom, if she's treated like shit then it cascades down to all women in the manga since she is by far the most hyped.

 

[cntr]

I don't think Luffy will defeat Big Mom now, the story doesn't seem like it's heading in that direction. It's more like a Magellan situation, sneaking past her and getting the fuck out. Luffy will get her attention by messing Totland up.

They'll fight eventually, but it'll be at the end of a huge near-endgame saga, probably along with Kaido.

 

[Cindi Mayweather]

I never thought that with any of them, because it it's obvious he would. The problem isn't Luffy finding the way, it's that it's really poor story telling for Luffy to defeat a character that's been hyped what is getting close to a decade now with like a quarter of his effective crew strength while going all out against another character that's supposed be in he same tier. The fact that it's the most powerful female character makes it all the more worse.



TBF Jojo wasn't great with women for a long ass time either. In fact Jolyne was a main character partly because of Araki's notice of that. One Piece isn't going to change MC but it would take Oda actively noticing and changing his story to revert course a bit. Either way a lot hinges of his treatment of big mom, if she's treated like shit then it cascades down to all women in the manga since she is by far the most hyped.

Someone mention it to that George guy so he can mention it to Oda.

 

[cntr]

Yeah, Araki is kind of unique for noticing that he wrote women badly, and then taking steps to correct it in Stone Ocean. And it worked really well.

 

[UnemployedVillain]

Mild spoilers for Jojo's Bizarre Adventure: Stone Ocean --


Try to imagine Oda writing a female character even vaguely like this, it's so unlikely. And it's not like Araki started out great, he was bad as Oda in the early parts.

Bonney?

Bellmere? Dr. Kureha?

 

[cntr]

Bonney?
Bellmere? Dr. Kureha?

And have they ever had major fights?

Like, lemme just pick a random fight from Stone Ocean and get a panel.

This isn't even an important fight, and still Jolyne gets to have chunks blown out of her and then respond with equal levels of violence. More violence than One Piece characters normally express, female or not! Then still get a full fight!

 

[UnemployedVillain]

And have they ever had major fights?

Like, lemme just pick a random fight from Stone Ocean and get a panel.

This isn't even an important fight, and still Jolyne gets to have chunks blown out of her and then respond with equal levels of violence. More violence than One Piece characters normally express, female or not!

Jolyne is the main character of that arc. Of course she'd get an important fight. And like you said, getting chunks blown out is casual violence in Jojo. It happens in like every fight and characters are alright like right after. It seems you're more comparing the differences between the series instead of between women in the series, with Jolyne being pretty much one of the few who get any sort of development of important fights

 

[Imperial Bishop]

Isn't JoJo well-known for being extra violent and brutal than most Jump manga?

If I recall, Araki changed magazines to a seinen one around Stone Ocean so he's pretty free to go wild with the amount of violence.

 

[cntr]

I'm arguing against the idea that giving women fights isn't allowed in a shounen, that it isn't something people would read.

If Jolyne can get battles with the same level of violence as any Jojo character 14 years ago, it's silly to say Oda can't do the same with One Piece's relatively low level of violence.

(Also, no, the other characters get even more violent battles in Jojo, main character or not. Those pictures aren't from an important battle.)

 

[Principate]

Isn't JoJo well-known for being extra violent and brutal than most Jump manga?

If I recall, Araki changed magazines to a seinen one around Stone Ocean so he's pretty free to go wild with the amount of violence.

That's true for a lot of older well known seinen, Bastard! etc

 

[Cindi Mayweather]

Someone mention it to that George guy so he can mention it to Oda.

I had this idea when I was high; sorry.

 

[Imperial Bishop]

I'm arguing against the idea that giving women fights isn't allowed in a shounen, that it isn't something people would read.

If Jolyne can get battles with the same level of violence as any Jojo character 14 years ago, it's silly to say Oda can't do the same with One Piece's relatively low level of violence.

(Also, no, the other characters get even more violent battles in Jojo, main character or not. Those pictures aren't from an important battle.)

I don't disagree, but I assumed that there was a general difference in how raw Araki gets with gratuitous violence compared to Oda.
I mean, the guy has put more dogs and puppies through the ringer than Cruella DeVille.

 

[Principate]

I'm arguing against the idea that giving women fights isn't allowed in a shounen, that it isn't something people would read.

If Jolyne can get battles with the same level of violence as any Jojo character 14 years ago, it's silly to say Oda can't do the same with One Piece's relatively low level of violence.

(Also, no, the other characters get even more violent battles in Jojo, women or not. Those pictures aren't from an unimportant battle.)

I don't think Oda actually has that much of a problem with women fighting they don't get as bloody as males do but until Enies Lobby after recieving her climatact Nami used to consistents get fights and they weren't always always the softest of affairs e.g the fight against miss double finger.

The issue is crew bloat resulting in anyone bar the M3 not getting constistent fights and females getting the extreme short end of the stick. If the crew remained relatively small and Oda kept to that sort of scenario the issue wouldn't be that jarring but now were wondering when the hell both of the female characters had their last fight. Basically their needs to be a female member of the monster trio. Carrot seems competant enough but there's no assurance that if she were to join that she wouldn't be pushed to wayside also like most of the newer crew members have been.

 

[Cindi Mayweather]

Isn't JoJo well-known for being extra violent and brutal than most Jump manga?

If I recall, Araki changed magazines to a seinen one around Stone Ocean so he's pretty free to go wild with the amount of violence.

Yeah, I can't deal with JoJo's brutality these days.

 

[cntr]

Ehh, it feels like you have to make too many excuses to justify Oda not wanting to write women in battles. At this point, you just have to accept he just doesn't want to. Maybe he'll change, maybe not.

Anyway,

Speculating that Big Mom's soul manipulation lets her acquire extra abilities and skills, like her electric and fire powers here. It's like the shadow powers used in Nightmare Luffy, but better (and hey, maybe that's where Lola got the idea.)

 

[Imperial Bishop]

I don't think Oda actually has that much of a problem with women fighting they don't get as bloody as males do but until Enies Lobby after recieving her climatact Nami used to consistents get fights and they weren't always always the softest of affairs e.g the fight against miss double finger.

The issue is crew bloat resulting in anyone bar the M3 not getting constistent fights and females getting the extreme short end of the stick. If the crew remained relatively small and Oda kept to that sort of scenario the issue wouldn't be that jarring but now were wondering when the hell both of the female characters had their last fight. Basically their needs to be a female member of the monster trio. Carrot seems competant enough but there's no assurance that if she were to join that she wouldn't be pushed to wayside also like most of the newer crew members have been.

While the large, ever-growing roster of characters is one of the problems, remember that Nami didn't have her first 1v1 fight until Alabasta even though she's shown that she could hold her own against nameless mooks in East Blue.
The lack of urgency for 1v1 fights and the uncommonness of competent female combatants became a big issue post-Thriller Bark and onward. The fact that the only non-Straw Hat woman fighter in Dressrosa that actually had an interesting ability (Baby 5) got such a lackluster ending to her fight sets off so many red flags.

 

[Bounceounce]

Oda definetly has inexplicable issues with displaying female characters well in a battle sense, I mean Nami is still in my top three characters,and I think Oda constantly displays her usefulness in many different ways which many fans don't agree on me with, but he could do a lot better.
I think he's just stuck with his own notions of gender roles/behavior that it's hard for him to break out of.

 

[Principate]

While the large, ever-growing roster of characters is one of the problems, remember that Nami didn't have her first 1v1 fight until Alabasta even though she's shown that she could hold her own against nameless mooks in East Blue.
The lack of urgency for 1v1 fights and the uncommonness of competent female combatants became a big issue post-Thriller Bark and onward. The fact that the only non-Straw Hat woman fighter in Dressrosa that actually had an interesting ability (Baby 5) got such a lackluster ending to her fight sets off so many red flags.

True though tbf Nami wasn't actually a part of the crew until after arlong park, before then she was essentially a free loader taking advantage of the situation. Didn't really much sense for her to out of in the type of fights Zorro and Luffy engaged themselves .

Though really One piece isn't much of a boys manga and hasn't been such for like a decade now. Half the readership are women and middle aged women take up a significant chunk of it. Considering the general popularity of the manga we're talking about one of if not the most popular manga amongst women here.

 

[SolVanderlyn]

There's always Tsuru, who made even Doffy quiver in fear and has a whole army of capable, elite, all-female Marines under her command.

Young Tsuru also, surprisingly, didn't suffer from the sameface most females do.

Olvia was also another cool female character. She died, but went out fighting as a strong woman who loved her daughter. She came across as the most capable person in that flashback arc. I loved the scene where she pinned a guy to the ground with her rifle.

 

[Cloud Strife]

Yeah, I know, but that just seems like such a poor argument to me.

Edit: Cloud, I hope you know me well enough to realize taht I am only attacking your argument here, not you, just in case you read this the wrong way and think it's aggressive. I honestly just don't buy the argument on any level.

Of course, and you should know I absolutely agree with you on all your points. It's problematic 100%.

But it's not really an argument, it's reality. Oda isn't from/doesn't live in the same country you do, and his perspective is expectedly antiquated regarding female treatment. Couple that with that fact that it's a shonen for young boys who sterotypically like to see other males being kickass and attractive women. But again, I don't really see a big reason to pull apart the manga and prove something that's fairly obvious from the start.

Should Oda change it up? Absolutely, but you have to realize that other cultures/countries are not as progressive in regards to fair treatment of women in media on a general level. What you think is dumb and common sense is not what another person thinks is dumb and common sense.

Naruto, Bleach...lots of mainstream, popular shonens are the same. And My Hero Academia isn't really that great either, but that's another argument.

 

[UnemployedVillain]

There's always Tsuru, who made even Doffy quiver in fear and has a whole army of capable, elite, all-female Marines under her command.



Young Tsuru also, surprisingly, didn't suffer from the sameface most females do.


Olvia was also another cool female character. She died, but went out fighting as a strong woman who loved her daughter. She came across as the most capable person in that flashback arc. I loved the scene where she pinned a guy to the ground with her rifle.

I think he's saying he wants women to be in fights as brutal as the men, not that there are a a lack of them, or that they don't occupy important roles. I think...

 

[dabig2]

The dearth of badass combat-oriented females in One Piece is a huuuuuge reason as to why a lot of people have been lobbying for Carrot to join the Strawhats as a full-time member (beyond just being a cute bubbly furry). Robin is pretty fearless too and Nami can be when pushed to it, but the very nature of their abilities makes fights for them hard to depict and very specialized and I wager that's why we don't see them often enough. But not so for Carrot. She's the type of gal who will throw down hands and speed blitz your ass and is a "hit them in the jaw till they stop moving" character like the boys. And that's what we need more of, imo.

 

[Principate]

Of course, and you should know I absolutely agree with you on all your points. It's problematic 100%.

But it's not really an argument, it's reality. Oda isn't from/doesn't live in the same country you do, and his perspective is expectedly antiquated regarding female treatment. Couple that with that fact that it's a shonen for young boys who sterotypically like to see other males being kickass and attractive women. But again, I don't really see a big reason to pull apart the manga and prove something that's fairly obvious from the start.

Should Oda change it up? Absolutely, but you have to realize that other cultures/countries are not as progressive in regards to fair treatment of women in media on a general level. What you think is dumb and common sense is not what another person thinks is dumb and common sense.

Naruto, Bleach...lots of mainstream, popular shonens are the same. And My Hero Academia isn't really that great either, but that's another argument.

Like i said before 50% of One Piece readership are women with middle aged women taking up a significant chunk. Combined with it's popularity size, One Piece is way too big to described as a young boys manga, It's what it started out as and the demographic of the manga it caters to, (though even hat is pretty closely split), who it actually appeals to is not quite the same. Though the female readership may not have as much of an issue with it.

The funny thing about Japan's manga industry is because while a very large proportion of the manga's are incredibly sexist female readership dwarfs American comics, pretty much because there is in fact a massive indistry that caters almost exclusively to women, with female readers having more and more of a significant impact. If you don't have a sizeable female fanbase it is ridulously difficult for a manga to come close higher end of manga sales.

 

[Kreed]

The dearth of badass combat-oriented females in One Piece is a huuuuuge reason as to why a lot of people have been lobbying for Carrot to join the Strawhats as a full-time member (beyond just being a cute bubbly furry). Robin is pretty fearless too and Nami can be when pushed to it, but the very nature of their abilities makes fights for them hard to depict and very specialized and I wager that's why we don't see them often enough. But not so for Carrot. She's the type of gal who will throw down hands and speed blitz your ass and is a "hit them in the jaw till they stop moving" character like the boys. And that's what we need more of, imo.

I was trying not to jump into this discussion since we've had it way too many times, but there's no way you actually believe this. With the crazy abilities we've seen Oda give characters over the years and depict them in battle amazingly, you know he could make Robin's multiple hands and Nami's weather work in hard hitting fights, especially if characters like Zoro or Sanji had their abilities. Hell, just think about Sanji and Zoro for a minute. These two have no actual powers or special weapons, yet have amazing fights just from their fighting skills. What's stopping Oda from giving Robin and Nami Haki and combat skills? That two year break the Straw Hats took to get stronger gave Oda the opportunity to up their fighting skills. Oda just doesn't like drawing "cute" women in hard hitting fights.

 

[Neoriceisgood]

Does Luffy punching Vivi in the face count as a 1 v.s. 1 fight?

 

[Tathanen]

Lemme just say I'm proud of this thread for having this discussion without the childish vitriol of previous attempts. Carry on!

 

[Principate]

Does Luffy punching Vivi in the face count as a 1 v.s. 1 fight?

The chapter it happens in is called Luffy vs Vivi after all.

 

[Cindi Mayweather]

While the large, ever-growing roster of characters is one of the problems, remember that Nami didn't have her first 1v1 fight until Alabasta even though she's shown that she could hold her own against nameless mooks in East Blue.
The lack of urgency for 1v1 fights and the uncommonness of competent female combatants became a big issue post-Thriller Bark and onward. The fact that the only non-Straw Hat woman fighter in Dressrosa that actually had an interesting ability (Baby 5) got such a lackluster ending to her fight sets off so many red flags.

Jesus I forgot Baby 5. That pissed me off so much because she was initially so cool.

 

[Ganzlinger]

I never thought that with any of them, because it it's obvious he would. The problem isn't Luffy finding the way, it's that it's really poor story telling for Luffy to defeat a character that's been hyped what is getting close to a decade now with like a quarter of his effective crew strength while going all out against another character that's supposed be in he same tier. The fact that it's the most powerful female character makes it all the more worse.

I think we will only know that when Oda actually draws it. People should be more open minded about this, it looks like you simply don't see any possibility that Oda could make a good story, if Luffy defeats Big Mom now, like your mind already decided that if he doesn't defeat Kaido first, it will be garbage.

That way, looks more like what you want to happen in the manga, and that's not up to discussion, each one has their preference.

Anyway, it's not like Luffy is the only enemy Big Mom has and it's not like only he and his crew have to defeat her in a conventional strength based duel. Of course, if Luffy defeats her with only 6-7 allies it will suck, I agree with you, but we don't know how he will do it, I'll suggest we wait and see how things turns out. I think currently it's almost impossible that he will defeat her, and that's why I'm excited to see them clashing.

 

[Principate]

Jesus I forgot Baby 5. That pissed me off so much because she was initially so cool.

But what about Monet? She died!

 

[BatDan]

Looking into it.
"Homies" wasn't taking liberties. That's what they're called in Japanese. ホーミーズ (Homizu)
This is odd even for you Oda.

 

[Cloud Strife]

Like i said before 50% of One Piece readership are women with middle aged women taking up a significant chunk. Combined with it's popularity size, One Piece is way too big to described as a young boys manga, It's what it started out as and the demographic of the manga it caters to, (though even hat is pretty closely split), who it actually appeals to is not quite the same. Though the female readership may not have as much of an issue with it.

The funny thing about Japan's manga industry is because while a very large proportion of the manga's are incredibly sexist female readership dwarfs American comics, pretty much because there is in fact a massive indistry that caters almost exclusively to women, with female readers having more and more of a significant impact. If you don't have a sizeable female fanbase it is ridulously difficult for a manga to come close higher end of manga sales.

Do you have stats on this? Not that I don't believe you, but I'd like to see them for myself.

But my point was more for the design of the manga rather than the actual demographics, regardless of what they are. There's a specific, stereotypical intent with how this manga is drawn and designed and that comes with the Shonen label. It's what the magazine is all about, regardless of who actually reads it (us!).

 

[Ganzlinger]

Looking into it.
"Homies" wasn't taking liberties. That's what they're called in Japanese. ホーミーズ (Homizu)
This is odd even for you Oda.

I'm not from an English speaking country. What's the deal with this "homie" thing? Some slur?

 

[cntr]

"Homies" is like "bros" or "dudes", but really oudated

It's probably from "homunculus".

 

[Cloud Strife]

I'm not from an English speaking country. What's the deal with this "homie" thing? Some slur?

hom·ie
ˈhōmē/
nounUSinformal
noun: homie; plural noun: homies; noun: homey; plural noun: homeys

An acquaintance from one's town or neighborhood, or a member of one's peer group or gang.

Origin
1920s: from home + -ie; compare with homeboy.

In a sentence, "S'up homie."

 

[Ganzlinger]

"Homies" is like "bros" or "dudes", but really oudated

It's probably from "homunculus".

In a sentence, "S'up homie."

Oh, thanks!

 

[Tathanen]

It's probably from "homunculus".

Hm, that's an interesting interpretation. Such a cutsie rendition of a traditionally ominous concept.

 

[Principate]

Do you have stats on this? Not that I don't believe you, but I'd like to see them for myself.

But my point was more for the design of the manga rather than the actual demographics, regardless of what they are. There's a specific, stereotypical intent with how this manga is drawn and designed and that comes with the Shonen label. It's what the magazine is all about, regardless of who actually reads it (us!).

This is old by 4 years and not the one I saw but ranks shounen jump series most popular by women and male and shows the gender breakdown. I saw one which included age as well

 

[Cloud Strife]

This is old by 4 years and not the one I saw but ranks shounen jump series most popular by women and male and shows the gender breakdown. I saw one which included age as well

Thanks!, do you know if it's available in Engish anywhere? Curious as to their sample size.

 

[dabig2]

I was trying not to jump into this discussion since we've had it way too many times, but there's no way you actually believe this. With the crazy abilities we've seen Oda give characters over the years and depict them in battle amazingly, you know he could make Robin's multiple hands and Nami's weather work in hard hitting fights, especially if characters like Zoro or Sanji had their abilities. Hell, just think about Sanji and Zoro for a minute. These two have no actual powers or special weapons, yet have amazing fights just from their fighting skills. What's stopping Oda from giving Robin and Nami Haki and combat skills? That two year break the Straw Hats took to get stronger gave Oda the opportunity to up their fighting skills. Oda just doesn't like drawing "cute" women in hard hitting fights.

No, I believe it. Oda just wants his consistency. Turning specialist fighters like Robin/Nami into frontline brawlers would break the mold he's already created for them. It's why you don't see GodUsopp as some beast either. Sure he now has Observation haki, but it's there to accentuate his preexisting skill.

 

[Kreed]

No, I believe it.

I'm talking what I bolded in your last post:

Robin is pretty fearless too and Nami can be when pushed to it, but the very nature of their abilities makes fights for them hard to depict and very specialized and I wager that's why we don't see them often enough.

Robin and Nami's abilities being hard to depict is "nonsense" in the context of One Piece and the crazy abilities we've seen over the years.

Oda just wants his consistency. Turning specialist fighters like Robin/Nami into frontline brawlers would break the mold he's already created for them. It's why you don't see GodUsopp as some beast either. Sure he now has Observation haki, but it's there to accentuate his preexisting skill.

You're right that Oda has created a "mold"/roles that he wants Robin and Nami to play and he has no interest in changing those roles. But that has nothing to do with Oda not being able to depict Robin or Nami as fighters because of their abilities.

 

[Cloud Strife]

I'm talking what I bolded in your last post:

Robin and Nami's abilities being hard to depict is "nonsense" in the context of One Piece and the crazy abilities we've seen over the years.

You're right that Oda has created a "mold"/roles that he wants Robin and Nami to play and he has no interest in changing those roles. But that has nothing to do with Oda not being able to depict Robin or Nami as fighters because of their abilities.

Of course it is. It's absolutely ludicrous that Robin hasn't one-shotted a majority of the enemies the crew has come across or even have gotten a chance to do so in the first place.

It's bullshit, but it's bullshit that exists for reasons beyond the context of what's possible in the series itself.

 

[Red Fire]

Sigh... here we go again...

Edit: also i don't get this whole thing. I mean in real life too, women being badass fighers and being stronger than men is not the rule but the exception mostly so why would one piece have tons of them. There are quite a few, i mean even one of the yonko is a monstrous woman. We got big mom, monet, i guess a bunch of big mom's underlings, carrot, tsuru and her soldiers, kureha, hancock's whole island, bonney and a lot more. Also nami, vivi and robin also had quite a few badass moments.

 

[cntr]

We were having a good conversation over the last page, so don't be a dick with comments like "here we go again", please.