Blackleg-sanji1
Banned
These guys are assholes..like I absolutely hate them. Complete opposite of sanji it's Down right filthy
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One Piece Manga |OT2| Four Emperors, One King, All Blue
- Thread starter Cloud Strife
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Blackleg-sanji1
Banned
Straight up. His family takes the mantle of worst one piece family
ArgyleReptile
Banned
Sanji is going to burn that whole Kingdom down to the ground.
One Piece 839:
With Zeff's life now being on the line I'm assuming Luffy and the others will have to defeat the Germa 66 in order for Sanji to agree to a rescue. They definitely seem "easier" to defeat than Big Mom but that's only in a scenario where Big Mom and her crew aren't involved, which is right now/before the wedding. I'm assuming Chopper and his mirror discovery will come into play in this scenario I'm imagining (the Straw Hats getting to Sanji via mirrors and getting his keys without Big Mom knowing anything).
With Zeff's life now being on the line I'm assuming Luffy and the others will have to defeat the Germa 66 in order for Sanji to agree to a rescue. They definitely seem "easier" to defeat than Big Mom but that's only in a scenario where Big Mom and her crew aren't involved, which is right now/before the wedding. I'm assuming Chopper and his mirror discovery will come into play in this scenario I'm imagining (the Straw Hats getting to Sanji via mirrors and getting his keys without Big Mom knowing anything).
This is the best he's been in a really long time, so I'm not sure what the issue is here. His defending women shtick is definitely old, but I do like that they called back his stance on food, tied it into his assessment of the cook's meal, and then brought it all together with the larger theme of nobles vs. commoners.
The overall through-line to one piece is the idea of privileged freedom vs. earned freedom. The Germa/Sanji relationship, while comically over the top with its portray of how evil Germa is, actually does a pretty great job of maintaining that theme and making it personal for a crew member who has badly needed more characterization. Plus, now we get the added sense of how much of a positive impact Zeff had on Sanji's development.
Blackleg-sanji1
Banned
Did sanji Have that kick under control or was he about to get it...I feel like he can handle his family
It's irrelevant because his dad called it off. He probably would have intentionally taken the hit because he was defending, not attacking.
But it isn't something new in the One Piece universe. Many nobles are portrait as total shitheads, no wonder if they have the world nobles as role model. And it isn't like real life was any different.
If also makes sense, that the Germa treat their servants terrible with the last scene. Properly at some point they stopped making a difference between clones and real people.
I can't wait to see Sanji drop kick the fuck out of these assholes, they really are the lowest of the low. It's pretty bad when you make the Tenryuubito looks passable in comparison.
And their soldiers are basically lab grown disposables? Did I mention how much I hate these people?
(Weird side note, does anyone else think the tube soldier looks like Vergo?)
And their soldiers are basically lab grown disposables? Did I mention how much I hate these people?
(Weird side note, does anyone else think the tube soldier looks like Vergo?)
Blackleg-sanji1
Banned
Yooooo same I was like vergo!! Dafuq! Lol had to double check. And yea these guys have some swift kicks coming to them soon enough
Ganzlinger
Member
Yeah, I see many people saying that tube guy looks like Vergo.
The Vinsmokes are deplorable, but I still think the Tenryuubito are worse, at least they don't mount on humans wearing collars like animals.
Reiju is a very intriguing character. She might have her own agenda, she looks too smart to be 100% loyal to such brutes.
I think Yonji might have hit Cosette and he is lying to Sanji about being Niji. He said he wanted revenge on Sanji for kicking his ass, so he may be leading him to a trap.
The Vinsmokes are deplorable, but I still think the Tenryuubito are worse, at least they don't mount on humans wearing collars like animals.
Reiju is a very intriguing character. She might have her own agenda, she looks too smart to be 100% loyal to such brutes.
I think Yonji might have hit Cosette and he is lying to Sanji about being Niji. He said he wanted revenge on Sanji for kicking his ass, so he may be leading him to a trap.
Blackleg-sanji1
Banned
Idk man I still have just a small hope in her at least
TheRealTalker
Banned
Sanji was so angry on Page 8 that he even lost his goatee
remember Big Mom gave Intel on all of Sanji's weaknesses
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remember Big Mom gave Intel on all of Sanji's weaknesses
)))-
Tathanen
Get Inside Her!
He definitely seemed the same as when he was fighting his old man. No real surprise or emotion shown when attacks were coming, just kinda stonefaced tanking them. Dunno whether it's contempt for his family or confidence in his ability to take the hit, or maybe both.
Rebel Leader
THE POWER OF BUTTERSCOTCH BOTTOMS
No, you love them
Blackleg-sanji1
Banned
Yea like normally you can tell when sanji is about to just straight up get his ass kicked oda has made that painfully clear for 2 arcs straight. But here he's just calm and content in this situation and with his father. Not showing any emotions or fear towards his family unless egged in by outside forces
AntraxSuicide
Banned
I think this is more Oda's style. He rarely has men fight women.
And I'm starting to get just a bit tired of this arc. It's still doing buildup chapters instead of getting into the meat of the arc, though I feel like we're getting close.
Bounceounce
Member
God the Vinsmokes are just awful and lazy.
The most random, lazy, and cartoonish twist in the entirety of One Piece.
Their sole purpose is to be a lazy plot device to force-feed "development" for Sanji rather than concoct and actually good plot for him.
The Vinsmokes as characters and the way the dialogue flowed in this chapter was lazy and felt unnatural too, just do the opposite of sanji and speed through actions that's fine.
I wonder how many people wetting their pants over this supposedly being "the best sanjis been" or finally being "cool again" gave a fuck when Sanji had legitimately great things with food on Punk Hazard.
The most random, lazy, and cartoonish twist in the entirety of One Piece.
Their sole purpose is to be a lazy plot device to force-feed "development" for Sanji rather than concoct and actually good plot for him.
The Vinsmokes as characters and the way the dialogue flowed in this chapter was lazy and felt unnatural too, just do the opposite of sanji and speed through actions that's fine.
I wonder how many people wetting their pants over this supposedly being "the best sanjis been" or finally being "cool again" gave a fuck when Sanji had legitimately great things with food on Punk Hazard.
Yeah, that is some not-so-subtle Nazi imagery alright - now the name Germa makes sense. Also, of course the 'super technology' myth is here as well, lol
Another bunch of blonde guys acting like 'royals', we just had one with Flamingo..
And that guy in the tube definitely looks like Vergo - which is kinda crazy since this opens up a ton of possibilities
Legit no clue how either Luffy or Sanji will get out of this
Another bunch of blonde guys acting like 'royals', we just had one with Flamingo..
And that guy in the tube definitely looks like Vergo - which is kinda crazy since this opens up a ton of possibilities
Legit no clue how either Luffy or Sanji will get out of this
Blackleg-sanji1
Banned
You know what never mind.
NHarmonic.
Member
Can't wait for luffy and sanji destroying the whole germa 66 kingdom, it'll be glorious.
Blackleg-sanji1
Banned
As long as luffy doesn't get the father that is
UnemployedVillain
Member
I have no idea what you're talking about at all
Rebel Leader
THE POWER OF BUTTERSCOTCH BOTTOMS
Nah, he will be with big mom
The results of both fights will destroy both kingdom and whole cake island
He will get him after sanji fails and gets his leg broken
Cracker is Luffy opponent.
Sanji = Judge
Sanji = Judge
AntraxSuicide
Banned
I do agree with this critique. The Vinsmokes in this chapter are quite literally Negative Sanji, in almost every way. Sanji doesn't waste food? Wouldn't you know it, the Vinsmokes love wasting food! Sanji does the chivalrous "don't hit women" thing? The Vinsmokes love hitting women!
It was a bit too on the nose for me, especially since most of those qualities in Sanji were developed after he left them. Though the Zeff threats were good; that's some real leverage.
Blackleg-sanji1
Banned
Ganzlinger
Member
I agree that they were too villainous and basically anti-Sanji this chapter, especially Niji. They could be better used.
However, I would wait the next events before concluding that their purpose is ultimately lazy. Even if they are causing pain to Sanji, it's the Big Mom pirates that are forcing the plot and Sanji's development, they are the ones who brought him, the ones who found about Zeff, while the Vinsmokes are just annoying him because of their past grudges and bad manners, but in the end they are serving as a tool to guarantee that Sanji will be delivered to Big Mom and be done with it. So maybe there is something better that Oda is planning for them, starting with this clone army that Sanji didn't know about.
UnemployedVillain
Member
This is an incredibly simple and coincidental reading of them. They're entitled rich people. It has nothing to do with being Sanji's opposite and everything to be with a life of living like royalty versus someone who almost starved to death, resorted to cannibalism, and forever values food and people who prepare them. I can't tell if you guys reducing them to "Anti-Sanji" understand his character OR their characterization and why they're the way they are
Welcome to One Piece!
Where people start as two dimensional characters, before they are given more depth over time. Like in any good story.
Imperial Bishop
Banned
Where are you getting that conclusion from? The full scope of Sanji's history with his family hasn't been revealed yet. We don't even know why he left or how he ended up on the Orbit in East Blue.
Niji was the only one technically doing the opposite of Sanji.
The Vinsmokes unanimously treat themselves higher than normal people, but that doesn't mean they all enjoy wasting food or hitting women for shits and giggles.
That "great thing with food" came right at the tail end of Punk Hazard and was overshadowed by the events leading up to Doflamingo and Dressrosa.
That's really the only time the fighting cuisine has played a role post-timeskip and it wasn't treated like a big spectacle.
Ganzlinger
Member
I certainly understand and I agree with you. I'm just saying that Oda decided to make a clear comparison this chapter and how Sanji became the opposite of them. Like he said, everything they do goes against every fiber in his body. It wasn't really necessary in my opinion because we are already convinced that Sanji doesn't fit among them. But that doesn't mean that I disliked the chapter, quite the contrary. I loved the scene with Cosette.
And the scene with they eating and Ichiji saying: "This is me... caring" was the funniest part. lol
I expect more development soon from the Vinsmoke family.
Rebel Leader
THE POWER OF BUTTERSCOTCH BOTTOMS
So what you are saying is that the man sanji follows will not be a pirate king?
Looks like sanji is not as smart as you think
AntraxSuicide
Banned
There are a lot of ways to make characters come off entitled and terrible. I just would have liked Oda to pick one of those that didn't coincidentally line up perfectly with Sanji's "Never waste food" thing. It's just as easy to have them be terrible some other way. Hell, they've been terrible for weeks without that. It's just in this chapter, they came off like mirrored opposites to him.
Though as one person pointed out, that was mostly Niji. Hopefully it isn't consistent across them all.
Well, since it's topical and I haven't complained about OP in a while, why don't I stir the pot a bit.
I've talked quite a bit about the technical and concrete aspects of Oda's world and some about how unnatural characters act in it, but I haven't talked much about one of my larger issues in OP - Emotional manipulation.
I've never liked it when stories specifically write out scenes that don't progress anything, but are just set out to make the reader feel a certain way. Lets break down what Niji does as a whole: He spends the initial portion mocking Sanji by telling him they fantasized about the ways he died when he was away, he goes on a rant about how shitty the food he's eating is, attacks the cook, is about to attack Sanji, and then supposedly provokes Sanji by beating the cook.
Seriously, what does this accomplish aside from showing Niji to be a grade A douchenozzle, something we already knew and probably could have figured out from more relevant future events, and maybe a plot device to get Sanji to walk into the clone lab, which could have happened in any number of ways. Just a "Come here, I need to show you something" would have been just as easy if that was the case.
All this is meant to accomplish, atleast from the reactions in this thread, is push the audience to hate Niji. And since I am fully aware that this is primary the purpose of the scene, my natural reaction is to resist that push against it. I find it hard to explain, but I greatly resent it whenever a story tries to make me feel an emotion rather than letting me feel that emotion with the story. And one piece does this a lot. Just have characters performing random acts of cruelty to try to prime the viewer into hating them (the celestial dragons being prime examples of this) or feel other ways (it can be anything, acts of kindness, sadness, whatever). I buy moments that are integral to the ongoing story to be far more legitimate than otherwise, and Niji's actions here don't feel integral in the slightest.
Now, you could fairly argue that the purpose of storytelling is to make you feel things, so this is fair game. If that's how you percieve things,....well, fine I guess, I can't really argue your wrong and it's not like I can say there is a clear, dividing line between whats meant to affect an audience with a certain emotion vs whats meant to just be emotional on it's own. I'm sure you'd probably be able to find scenes I like that you'd say are just the author manipulating the audience. So, for me, I don't feel any hate toward Niji despite his clearly inappropriate behavior because it's just such a pointless and redundant scene, in which we learn nothing about the character we didn't already know, that I feel he's too two dimensional to hate.
I've talked quite a bit about the technical and concrete aspects of Oda's world and some about how unnatural characters act in it, but I haven't talked much about one of my larger issues in OP - Emotional manipulation.
I've never liked it when stories specifically write out scenes that don't progress anything, but are just set out to make the reader feel a certain way. Lets break down what Niji does as a whole: He spends the initial portion mocking Sanji by telling him they fantasized about the ways he died when he was away, he goes on a rant about how shitty the food he's eating is, attacks the cook, is about to attack Sanji, and then supposedly provokes Sanji by beating the cook.
Seriously, what does this accomplish aside from showing Niji to be a grade A douchenozzle, something we already knew and probably could have figured out from more relevant future events, and maybe a plot device to get Sanji to walk into the clone lab, which could have happened in any number of ways. Just a "Come here, I need to show you something" would have been just as easy if that was the case.
All this is meant to accomplish, atleast from the reactions in this thread, is push the audience to hate Niji. And since I am fully aware that this is primary the purpose of the scene, my natural reaction is to resist that push against it. I find it hard to explain, but I greatly resent it whenever a story tries to make me feel an emotion rather than letting me feel that emotion with the story. And one piece does this a lot. Just have characters performing random acts of cruelty to try to prime the viewer into hating them (the celestial dragons being prime examples of this) or feel other ways (it can be anything, acts of kindness, sadness, whatever). I buy moments that are integral to the ongoing story to be far more legitimate than otherwise, and Niji's actions here don't feel integral in the slightest.
Now, you could fairly argue that the purpose of storytelling is to make you feel things, so this is fair game. If that's how you percieve things,....well, fine I guess, I can't really argue your wrong and it's not like I can say there is a clear, dividing line between whats meant to affect an audience with a certain emotion vs whats meant to just be emotional on it's own. I'm sure you'd probably be able to find scenes I like that you'd say are just the author manipulating the audience. So, for me, I don't feel any hate toward Niji despite his clearly inappropriate behavior because it's just such a pointless and redundant scene, in which we learn nothing about the character we didn't already know, that I feel he's too two dimensional to hate.
SolVanderlyn
Thanos acquires the fully powered Infinity Gauntlet in The Avengers: Infinity War, but loses when all the superheroes team up together to stop him.
BobTheFork
Member
So were the Vinsmokes doing this when Sanji was a child or does it seems like it's something new. I mean, was Sanji aware of their activities or did he just nazi it coming?
Blackleg-sanji1
Banned
He seems fully aware they were assholes probably one of the main reasons he left. Or do you mean the pods? If so they were doing that too since they said they always wondered what was in that room
Kamabaka kingdom, the baratie they probably have tabs on both ready to get them both if sanji steps outta line it's crazy. Idk how they get out of this one.
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