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[Ray Down]

From Sandman about the Kochikame Page:

If you rotate the bounty poster, you can see the number "110596".
And Luffy is drawing Ryo-san's distinct unibrow, which can be read as "3".
http://mangastream.com/r/one_piece/839/3672/1

"1105963"

"110" is an emergency phone number to call police in Japan.
"5963" (5"go"9"ku"6"rou"3"san") can be read as "ご苦労さん", which means "Thank you for your hard work!" in Japanese

So Oda is probably saying, "Thank you for your hard work, policeman!"
(Ryo-san is a policeman.)

 

[Ganzlinger]

There are a lot of ways to make characters come off entitled and terrible. I just would have liked Oda to pick one of those that didn't coincidentally line up perfectly with Sanji's "Never waste food" thing. It's just as easy to have them be terrible some other way. Hell, they've been terrible for weeks without that. It's just in this chapter, they came off like mirrored opposites to him.

Though as one person pointed out, that was mostly Niji. Hopefully it isn't consistent across them all.

I agree with you, but to be fair, it's not that bad because Sanji was the one who provoked the food discussion. Niji obviously didn't want to piss Sanji by lefting food on the plate, he didn't know that side of him. He even answered normally when Sanji asked him.

It could have been anyone and if it was another day, Niji could have eaten everything. I guess Sanji didn't let that pass also because he was being mocked by Niji.

Well, since it's topical and I haven't complained about OP in a while, why don't I stir the pot a bit.

I've talked quite a bit about the technical and concrete aspects of Oda's world and some about how unnatural characters act in it, but I haven't talked much about one of my larger issues in OP - Emotional manipulation.

I've never liked it when stories specifically write out scenes that don't progress anything, but are just set out to make the reader feel a certain way. Lets break down what Niji does as a whole: He spends the initial portion mocking Sanji by telling him they fantasized about the ways he died when he was away, he goes on a rant about how shitty the food he's eating is, attacks the cook, is about to attack Sanji, and then supposedly provokes Sanji by beating the cook.

Seriously, what does this accomplish aside from showing Niji to be a grade A douchenozzle, something we already knew and probably could have figured out from more relevant future events, and maybe a plot device to get Sanji to walk into the clone lab, which could have happened in any number of ways. Just a "Come here, I need to show you something" would have been just as easy if that was the case.

All this is meant to accomplish, atleast from the reactions in this thread, is push the audience to hate Niji. And since I am fully aware that this is primary the purpose of the scene, my natural reaction is to resist that push against it. I find it hard to explain, but I greatly resent it whenever a story tries to make me feel an emotion rather than letting me feel that emotion with the story. And one piece does this a lot. Just have characters performing random acts of cruelty to try to prime the viewer into hating them (the celestial dragons being prime examples of this) or feel other ways (it can be anything, acts of kindness, sadness, whatever). I buy moments that are integral to the ongoing story to be far more legitimate than otherwise, and Niji's actions here don't feel integral in the slightest.

Now, you could fairly argue that the purpose of storytelling is to make you feel things, so this is fair game. If that's how you percieve things,....well, fine I guess, I can't really argue your wrong and it's not like I can say there is a clear, dividing line between whats meant to affect an audience with a certain emotion vs whats meant to just be emotional on it's own. I'm sure you'd probably be able to find scenes I like that you'd say are just the author manipulating the audience. So, for me, I don't feel any hate toward Niji despite his clearly inappropriate behavior because it's just such a pointless and redundant scene, in which we learn nothing about the character we didn't already know, that I feel he's too two dimensional to hate.

I agree with you, it's better when we are not forced to hate something. This particular trait of Oda's narrative isn't his best. However, the story is still enjoyable, most of the characters are really great and Oda has many other talents that make the manga one of the best in the shonen genre. I accepted that we'll have to deal with some flaws like you pointed, and you probably accepted that too. Just wanted to say that I agree with you but, overall, it doesn't bother me much. It's still a manga aimed mostly for teenagers (sadly).

So were the Vinsmokes doing this when Sanji was a child or does it seems like it's something new. I mean, was Sanji aware of their activities or did he just nazi it coming?

By his reactions when he said "what the fu...", he didn't know about that. And that's probably why Yonji is showing him.

 

[UnemployedVillain]

There are a lot of ways to make characters come off entitled and terrible. I just would have liked Oda to pick one of those that didn't coincidentally line up perfectly with Sanji's "Never waste food" thing. It's just as easy to have them be terrible some other way. Hell, they've been terrible for weeks without that. It's just in this chapter, they came off like mirrored opposites to him.

Though as one person pointed out, that was mostly Niji. Hopefully it isn't consistent across them all.

So, why are you ignoring all of those ways and focusing on one other reason on top of those, and acting like it's the only one? Them being wasteful of food isn't even being propped as a major part of their character. It only elicited a reaction and so much attention because it's a major part of Sanji's character.

We haven't seen much from Reiju or her personality and all things are pointing to Yonji being more manipulative. Niji is the only person who really specifically didn't care about wasting food.

Well, since it's topical and I haven't complained about OP in a while, why don't I stir the pot a bit.

I've talked quite a bit about the technical and concrete aspects of Oda's world and some about how unnatural characters act in it, but I haven't talked much about one of my larger issues in OP - Emotional manipulation.

I've never liked it when stories specifically write out scenes that don't progress anything, but are just set out to make the reader feel a certain way. Lets break down what Niji does as a whole: He spends the initial portion mocking Sanji by telling him they fantasized about the ways he died when he was away, he goes on a rant about how shitty the food he's eating is, attacks the cook, is about to attack Sanji, and then supposedly provokes Sanji by beating the cook.

Seriously, what does this accomplish aside from showing Niji to be a grade A douchenozzle, something we already knew and probably could have figured out from more relevant future events, and maybe a plot device to get Sanji to walk into the clone lab, which could have happened in any number of ways. Just a "Come here, I need to show you something" would have been just as easy if that was the case.

We've only JUST met the family. I think you're being incredibly presumptive. We have no idea wha this true motivations are. AT ALL. You're just assuming it's only made to prop him up as being a character we hate. Was his relationship with Sanji always like this as a child? What was their relationship with their mom who died and did that effect things? What's with all the clones? What's with Reiju's most distant relationship with the brothers? Yonji mentioned all of them trying to get into that lab as kids and not being able to, so there was a time when their relationship wasn't purely only hating each other. There is so much we don't know and you're acting like the arc is winding down and we know everything to know about the siblings and their relationship.

 

[smurfx]

I wonder tho, being stripped of their right to participate in the reverie will bring them CLOSER to their ultimate goal? In what way does disassociation with the WG benefit them?

maybe they won't have to abide by certain rules if they aren't a reverie nation anymore. they don't quit because they don't have the power to accomplish whatever is their goal. anyway looks like the only way sanji can get free now is if big mom or sanji's father decides to go back on their deal. since big mom has people pay a big price for leaving her i don't think it will be sanji's father. perhaps luffy really will end making a deal with big mom and asking him to release sanji if he takes down kaido. i think an emperor going down is probably more valuable to her and she probably thinks luffy is going to die anyway so there isn't much reason to turn him down. she will probably take a bunch of his life force as collateral too.

 

[UnemployedVillain]

maybe they won't have to abide by certain rules if they aren't a reverie nation anymore. they don't quit because they don't have the power to accomplish whatever is their goal. anyway looks like the only way sanji can get free now is if big mom or sanji's father decides to go back on their deal. since big mom has people pay a big price for leaving her i don't think it will be sanji's father. perhaps luffy really will end making a deal with big mom and asking him to release sanji if he takes down kaido. i think an emperor going down is probably more valuable to her and she probably thinks luffy is going to die anyway so there isn't much reason to turn him down. she will probably take a bunch of his life force as collateral too.

What makes you think Luffy has the power to when Big Mom doesn't?

 

[Kave_Man]

It's sure gonna be hilarious when Sanji is finally set free and his family realizes he's stronger than them all.

 

[Ganzlinger]

maybe they won't have to abide by certain rules if they aren't a reverie nation anymore. they don't quit because they don't have the power to accomplish whatever is their goal. anyway looks like the only way sanji can get free now is if big mom or sanji's father decides to go back on their deal. since big mom has people pay a big price for leaving her i don't think it will be sanji's father. perhaps luffy really will end making a deal with big mom and asking him to release sanji if he takes down kaido. i think an emperor going down is probably more valuable to her and she probably thinks luffy is going to die anyway so there isn't much reason to turn him down. she will probably take a bunch of his life force as collateral too.

If the wedding isn't useful anymore, Sanji is free. For example, if the Vinsmoke's technology is destroyed, they have no use for Big Mom. If the bomb explodes and one of the sides suspect each other, they would cancel the deal and might take what they want by force (probably Big Mom), etc.

 

[Oxn]

It's sure gonna be hilarious when Sanji is finally set free and his family realizes he's stronger than them all.

Highly unlikely. If they are weaker than Sanji I dont see how Germa 66 have been a threat for so long.

Sanji is not even part of the Top 3 fighters in his crew anymore.

 

[TheGreatDirector]

Highly unlikely. If they are weaker than Sanji I dont see how Germa 66 have been a threat for so long.

Sanji is not even part of the Top 3 fighters in his crew anymore.

Is it the technology that makes them strong though? Do they siblings have Haki?

 

[Bounceounce]

Highly unlikely. If they are weaker than Sanji I dont see how Germa 66 have been a threat for so long.

Sanji is not even part of the Top 3 fighters in his crew anymore.

The biggest nonsense in post timeskip One Piece.
If you're implying Franky is stronger than Sanji chances are you're on crack.

 

[silenttype01]

The biggest nonsense in post timeskip One Piece.
If you're implying Franky is stronger than Sanji chances are you're on crack.

Not Franky, Usopp.

 

[smurfx]

What makes you think Luffy has the power to when Big Mom doesn't?

i don't think it's that she doesn't have the power but the risk is too high for any 2 emperors to wage war when others might interfere for their own gain. luffy is going to have to take down kaido and it will likely be with allies and she would accept but only because she thinks luffy will die but he might still damage one of her opponents.

 

[Lunar15]

Well, since it's topical and I haven't complained about OP in a while, why don't I stir the pot a bit.

I've talked quite a bit about the technical and concrete aspects of Oda's world and some about how unnatural characters act in it, but I haven't talked much about one of my larger issues in OP - Emotional manipulation.

I've never liked it when stories specifically write out scenes that don't progress anything, but are just set out to make the reader feel a certain way. Lets break down what Niji does as a whole: He spends the initial portion mocking Sanji by telling him they fantasized about the ways he died when he was away, he goes on a rant about how shitty the food he's eating is, attacks the cook, is about to attack Sanji, and then supposedly provokes Sanji by beating the cook.

Seriously, what does this accomplish aside from showing Niji to be a grade A douchenozzle, something we already knew and probably could have figured out from more relevant future events, and maybe a plot device to get Sanji to walk into the clone lab, which could have happened in any number of ways. Just a "Come here, I need to show you something" would have been just as easy if that was the case.

All this is meant to accomplish, atleast from the reactions in this thread, is push the audience to hate Niji. And since I am fully aware that this is primary the purpose of the scene, my natural reaction is to resist that push against it. I find it hard to explain, but I greatly resent it whenever a story tries to make me feel an emotion rather than letting me feel that emotion with the story. And one piece does this a lot. Just have characters performing random acts of cruelty to try to prime the viewer into hating them (the celestial dragons being prime examples of this) or feel other ways (it can be anything, acts of kindness, sadness, whatever). I buy moments that are integral to the ongoing story to be far more legitimate than otherwise, and Niji's actions here don't feel integral in the slightest.

Now, you could fairly argue that the purpose of storytelling is to make you feel things, so this is fair game. If that's how you percieve things,....well, fine I guess, I can't really argue your wrong and it's not like I can say there is a clear, dividing line between whats meant to affect an audience with a certain emotion vs whats meant to just be emotional on it's own. I'm sure you'd probably be able to find scenes I like that you'd say are just the author manipulating the audience. So, for me, I don't feel any hate toward Niji despite his clearly inappropriate behavior because it's just such a pointless and redundant scene, in which we learn nothing about the character we didn't already know, that I feel he's too two dimensional to hate.

Yeah, definitely go read MHA. I definitely think you'll like it, or at least as an interesting contrast between One Piece.

I don't think the scene is entirely pointless, but I see it more as setting up later scenes so that we can recall this specific event later down the line. I completely agree that one of Oda's biggest problems is redundancy, but I also think he goes over the top like this when he's setting up either a subversion or a very powerful end scene. The scene wasn't really about making us hate Niji as much as it was showing us how different Sanji's worldview is from his brothers, making it all the more satisfying when he eventually beats them down or if there are character changes down the road. Keep in mind this is also a chapter that told us about Zeff being captured. It was about setting stakes: This isn't just a situation of life or death for Sanji, it's a situation of one ideal clashing with another. Knowing Oda, we're due for a flashback of when Sanji left the Germa family, and the set up here will probably coincide with that. Oda's all about set-ups and payoffs, and while he may go a little overboard on the setup, I find that the payoffs are generally pretty worth it.

Like with all of my critiques of One Piece, I definitely think Oda was way more capable of injecting emotion into the story without as much redundancy in the past. Villians used to be a little less one dimensional, and the stuff with Nobles has been a bit of an overbearing plot point. But I don't think that diminishes themes present, and I definitely don't think it makes the story bad or poorly written, or even any less engaging.

 

[Majukun]

I wonder tho, being stripped of their right to participate in the reverie will bring them CLOSER to their ultimate goal? In what way does disassociation with the WG benefit them?

because the moment they affiliate officially with big mom and move war to the entire north blue,they will be stripped of their affiliation with the world government.. so the moment they can't go to thereverie anymore is the moment their plan will be set into motion.

 

[AntraxSuicide]

So, why are you ignoring all of those ways and focusing on one other reason on top of those, and acting like it's the only one? Them being wasteful of food isn't even being propped as a major part of their character. It only elicited a reaction and so much attention because it's a major part of Sanji's character.

We haven't seen much from Reiju or her personality and all things are pointing to Yonji being more manipulative. Niji is the only person who really specifically didn't care about wasting food.

I'm commenting after the newest chapter came out, so I'm talking about why I didn't care for this chapter. If Luffy does something that I don't care for in the next one, I'm going to point that out without factoring in the last 800 chapters where he didn't do something I don't care for.

What makes you think Luffy has the power to when Big Mom doesn't?

i don't think it's that she doesn't have the power but the risk is too high for any 2 emperors to wage war when others might interfere for their own gain. luffy is going to have to take down kaido and it will likely be with allies and she would accept but only because she thinks luffy will die but he might still damage one of her opponents.

Yes, it's the ending of Yu Yu Hakusho where

Spoiler

the 3 demons that rule teh demon world keep each other in check. If Demon A attacks Demon B, they might win, but the resulting battle will weaken them and Demon C is going to beat the winner of A vs. B and take everything.

If Big Mom moves on Kaido, then she might win. But she'll take enough losses for sure that someone like Blackbeard or Shanks could then take her out. The whole reason none of the Yonkou fight is because there are more than 2 of them.

 

[Rebel Leader]

Lufffy is gonna fight big mom. He's getting that stone, hell he wants to take the entire thing.

Big mom isn't going to let him do such a thing let alone get a copy.

 

[Bounceounce]

Zou-Whole Cake has been the worst art in One Piece.

 

[Aaronrules380]

Zou-Whole Cake has been the worst art in One Piece.

What a terrible opinion

 

[Bounceounce]

What a terrible opinion

Would you say they're on level or better than any arc?
It's been a steady downfall.
Paneling, action, line work, backgrounds, etc.

 

[Aaronrules380]

Would you say they're on level or better than any arc?
It's been a steady downfall.

Yes. And most people would agree from what I've seen

 

[Bounceounce]

Yes

On level or better?
If better than which arcs would you say it's been better than?

 

[Aaronrules380]

On level or better?
If better than which arcs would you say it's been better than?

Better. Zou is one of my all time favorite arcs, and while it's do early to judge totland/whole cake, I've thouroughly enjoyed what I've seen so far. And again, this opinion is fairly common throughout the fanbase

 

[Sibersk Esto]

Zou-Whole Cake has been the worst art in One Piece.

nope

 

[Bounceounce]

Better. Zou is one of my all time favorite arcs, and while it's do early to judge totland/whole cake, I've thouroughly enjoyed what I've seen so far. And again, this opinion is fairly common throughout the fanbase

I said art.
Anyways I don't base my opinions on what's common, so I don't enjoy these two arcs as much as the rest, but that wasn't my point.

 

[Aaronrules380]

I said art.
Anyways I don't base my opinions on what's common, so I don't enjoy these two arcs as much as the rest, but that wasn't my point.

Never mind.

 

[Ganzlinger]

Zou-Whole Cake has been the worst art in One Piece.

I disagree. It's probably one of the best.

 

[Sibersk Esto]

One Piece's background art is easily the best it's ever been. And the paneling and line work has stepped up since mid-Dressrosa, which is when it was really out of control.

 

[Imperial Bishop]

Well, since it's topical and I haven't complained about OP in a while, why don't I stir the pot a bit.

I've talked quite a bit about the technical and concrete aspects of Oda's world and some about how unnatural characters act in it, but I haven't talked much about one of my larger issues in OP - Emotional manipulation.

I've never liked it when stories specifically write out scenes that don't progress anything, but are just set out to make the reader feel a certain way. Lets break down what Niji does as a whole: He spends the initial portion mocking Sanji by telling him they fantasized about the ways he died when he was away, he goes on a rant about how shitty the food he's eating is, attacks the cook, is about to attack Sanji, and then supposedly provokes Sanji by beating the cook.

Seriously, what does this accomplish aside from showing Niji to be a grade A douchenozzle, something we already knew and probably could have figured out from more relevant future events, and maybe a plot device to get Sanji to walk into the clone lab, which could have happened in any number of ways. Just a "Come here, I need to show you something" would have been just as easy if that was the case.

All this is meant to accomplish, atleast from the reactions in this thread, is push the audience to hate Niji. And since I am fully aware that this is primary the purpose of the scene, my natural reaction is to resist that push against it. I find it hard to explain, but I greatly resent it whenever a story tries to make me feel an emotion rather than letting me feel that emotion with the story. And one piece does this a lot. Just have characters performing random acts of cruelty to try to prime the viewer into hating them (the celestial dragons being prime examples of this) or feel other ways (it can be anything, acts of kindness, sadness, whatever). I buy moments that are integral to the ongoing story to be far more legitimate than otherwise, and Niji's actions here don't feel integral in the slightest.

Now, you could fairly argue that the purpose of storytelling is to make you feel things, so this is fair game. If that's how you percieve things,....well, fine I guess, I can't really argue your wrong and it's not like I can say there is a clear, dividing line between whats meant to affect an audience with a certain emotion vs whats meant to just be emotional on it's own. I'm sure you'd probably be able to find scenes I like that you'd say are just the author manipulating the audience. So, for me, I don't feel any hate toward Niji despite his clearly inappropriate behavior because it's just such a pointless and redundant scene, in which we learn nothing about the character we didn't already know, that I feel he's too two dimensional to hate.

I understand what you mean, but I don't believe that's really an issue given the context of what is happening in the story. I think it's a case-by-case thing.
I have no problem with emotional manipulation if it's executed very well. And Oda almost always executes it well.
There have been plenty of times throughout the story where Oda has written a scene that makes the reader feel a certain way towards a character without it coming off as forced or manipulative. Those scenes can tend to be important moments in an arc that sway the events leading up to the climax.

Zou-Whole Cake has been the worst art in One Piece.

No way, man.

 

[Bounceounce]

I understand what you mean, but I don't believe that's really an issue given the context of what is happening in the story. I think it's a case-by-case thing.
I have no problem with emotional manipulation if it's executed very well. And Oda almost always executes it well.
There have been plenty of times throughout the story where Oda has written a scene that makes the reader feel a certain way towards a character without it coming off as forced or manipulative. Those scenes can tend to be important moments in an arc that sway the events leading up to the climax.

No way, man.

Yes way man.
Giant animals and the scenes they were drawn in every other arc were drawn much better than Zunisha.

 

[Imperial Bishop]

Yes way man.
Giant animals and the scenes they were drawn in every other arc were drawn much better than Zunisha.

Such as?
Please provide images as well.

 

[Ray Down]

Such as?
Please provide images as well.

Yeah I though Zou had great art.

 

[Cloud Strife]

Yes way man.
Giant animals and the scenes they were drawn in every other arc were drawn much better than Zunisha.

 

[smurfx]

I said art.
Anyways I don't base my opinions on what's common, so I don't enjoy these two arcs as much as the rest, but that wasn't my point.

you might be thinking that since he's been drawing animal humans and most of big mom's family look like typical one piece fodder characters. 2 arcs back to back have different type of characters.

 

[Ray Down]

Pretty good day for me.

Good OP chapter, got a gold coin in OPPW3 so close to platnium and now made my first GAF thread.

 

[Bounceounce]

Such as?
Please provide images as well.

Currently downloading specific copies of Viz volumes.
Will be back with pictures of select giant animals.

you might be thinking that since he's been drawing animal humans and most of big mom's family look like typical one piece fodder characters. 2 arcs back to back have different type of characters.

No I'm talking about me thinking the characters just aren't drawn as well.
Other OP arcs have just as goofy designs.
I love his goofy designs.

 

[Cloud Strife]

Pretty good day for me.

Good OP chapter, got a gold coin in OPPW3 so close to platnium and now made my first GAF thread.

Wow! Congratulations!

Spoiler

Totally missed the FFXV trailer, watching now!

 

[Veelk]

I understand what you mean, but I don't believe that's really an issue given the context of what is happening in the story. I think it's a case-by-case thing.
I have no problem with emotional manipulation if it's executed very well. And Oda almost always executes it well.
There have been plenty of times throughout the story where Oda has written a scene that makes the reader feel a certain way towards a character without it coming off as forced or manipulative. Those scenes can tend to be important moments in an arc that sway the events leading up to the climax.

I acknowledge that what I'm describing is pretty subjective. I don't agree that it's well done, but I think it's totally fair for you to feel otherwise.

Like I said before, storytellers aren't neutral. They arrange scenes and panels and music and composition to make people feel a certain way in certain scenes. I guess for me, one important trick is to make sure that the audience doesn't NOTICE that their being manipulated, and....well, with OP, I frequently do.

The scene wasn't really about making us hate Niji as much as it was showing us how different Sanji's worldview is from his brothers, making it all the more satisfying when he eventually beats them down or if there are character changes down the road. Keep in mind this is also a chapter that told us about Zeff being captured. It was about setting stakes: This isn't just a situation of life or death for Sanji, it's a situation of one ideal clashing with another.

I definitely think the larger point is that we're supposed to hate Niji, you're just phrasing it in more sophisticated terms. Which is legit, but you're basically saying that we have two antithetical worldviews, and when Sanji's beats Niji's, we're supposed to feel good about it. Why would we do that? Because Niji's worldviews are all but explicitly stated to be wrongful. So, basically, since Niji is wrongful and Sanji righteous, it's implicit we're suppose to hate Niji, right?

That said, it doesn't help that I pretty much disagree with Sanji's worldviews entirely here. Not that Niji isn't being a total asshat, but Sanji just goes to the stupid opposite extreme. Food shouldn't be frivolously wasted, but if you're eating a dish you dislike, you have every right to not finish it, even if it's technically well prepared. Just because Sanji's past experience has him conditioned to finish all his dishes as though it were a compulsion, that doesn't mean he has a right to force that compulsion on everyone regardless of the situation. And we all know my views on Sanji's regard toward women, so my disapproval there doesn't even need to be stated. Even the "you should never attack comrades ", something I normally agree with, is put into question here. A theory is going around that Germa 66 wants Big Mom to put souls into them. Well, if that means they do not currently have souls, then they're basically just fleshy robots. If that's the case, sure, why not, they're not real people, just automatons made of meat, I have no problem sacrificing them by the cart load.

That's kind of why I view portraying Niji as psychotically dickish as unnecessary. If he were just portrayed as a normal dude, he could still be Sanji's antithesis. But that's not enough for Oda, we also have to haaaaaaaate him, so he establishes his family's opposition to his idealogy in a such a horrible manner that no morally sane person could dare take his family's side. It definitely feels like such a depiction is the manga trying to force me to side with Sanji by default, because just look at them otherwise, when I feel neither character's idealogy is good.

Fortunately, I feel perfectly free to be morally insane within the confines of OP's fiction, so GO VINSMOKES, GO GO GO!



Started MHA. Up to chapter 12. So far, I think it's really good. Will post about it later in it's thread, but if anyone doesn't go there and is curious, I give it a thumbs up on it's introduction atleast.

 

[Xux]

The push to hate the World Nobles and Germa is pretty on the nose. The space suits and the nazi imagery (even if it was already used for Impel Down...are they affiliated with Germa? Will Judge compliment Shiryu's uniform?) really hammer home the analogy...

I guess subtlety isn't really One Piece's thing for main plot stuff but jeeze. I'm happy Sanji's back after the two or three years it's felt like he's not been in the manga but eh. I'm curious what this pod business is but the Vinsmoke stuff's definitely the valleys to the Luffy and co. and the "oh yeah Brooke and Pedro came, too" cameos.

 

[Ganzlinger]

That said, it doesn't help that I pretty much disagree with Sanji's worldviews entirely here. Not that Niji isn't being a total asshat, but Sanji just goes to the stupid opposite extreme. Food shouldn't be frivolously wasted, but if you're eating a dish you dislike, you have every right to not finish it, even if it's technically well prepared. Just because Sanji's past experience has him conditioned to finish all his dishes as though it were a compulsion, that doesn't mean he has a right to force that compulsion on everyone regardless of the situation.

I think you're missing the point if you say you disagree entirely with Sanji's views. It's not only about wasting the food, Niji was humiliating the chef and it was clearly stated the the reason he wasn't appreciating the food's taste was because he ate some chocolate before. He was being ridiculous, blaming other people, and even tried to hit the chef.

If he said to Sanji: "sorry, I don't want it because I'm stuffed." I doubt Sanji would have made such a deal. The problem is that Niji is behaving like a spoiled brat. Sanji worked at a restaurant and was used to see leftovers. He would probably pick Niji's food and eat like he did, but saying that he has some compulsion to make everyone eat their food is unreasonable. It's his brother's attitude and arrogance that angers him. When you say that everyone should have the right to decline the food, regardless of how good it is, you're ignoring the whole context Oda creates, probably to prove a weird point that Niji is correct and Sanji is wrong. You have some weird problems with Oda to the point you are actually challenging him to make you dislike the Vinsmokes, man. lol

 

[Veelk]

I think you're missing the point if you say you disagree entirely with Sanji's views. It's not only about wasting the food, Niji was humiliating the chef and it was clearly stated the the reason he wasn't appreciating the food's taste was because he ate some chocolate before. He was being ridiculous, blaming other people, and even tried to hit the chef.

If he said to Sanji: "sorry, I don't want it because I'm stuffed." I doubt Sanji would have made such a deal. The problem is that Niji is behaving like a spoiled brat. Sanji worked at a restaurant and was used to see leftovers. He would probably pick Niji's food and eat like he did, but saying that he has some compulsion to make everyone eat their food is unreasonable. It's his brother's attitude and arrogance that angers him. When you say that everyone should have the right to decline the food, regardless of how good it is, you're ignoring the whole context Oda creates, probably to prove a weird point that Niji is correct and Sanji is wrong. You have some weird problems with Oda to the point you are actually challenging him to make you dislike the Vinsmokes, man. lol

Based on what we know of Sanji, I don't think that's the case. Sanji was insisting that he finish his food BEFORE Niji said that he ate chocolates before and that he didn't like his dish. Until Sanji brought it up, Niji wasn't even paying attention to it, he just put it aside, and it's absurd he has to offer any explanation at all. I mean, so what if he did eat chocolates before? Again, he's an adult, these is his meals, the cook is his servant, he has a right to eat candy and ice cream and spoil his dinner if he wants. The only thing out of line here is his rudeness, but Sanji - SANJI who is a total dick to every guy he meets by default - doesn't call people out for rudeness. Sanji's insistence on everyone finishing their meals was established back in the Baratie arc, against taht one marine guy, but he was rude about it to Zoro as well iirc, who I'm pretty sure he didn't know at the time. So, my understanding is that he tells EVERYONE to finish their meals, and that's because of his starvation trip (though he's probably nicer to women about it). Which, like I said, is not an excuse to force others into eating.

But I was responding to Lunar's point that the situation Oda set up wasn't to make us hate Niji, but rather to accentuate the idealogical conflict between them. My counterpoint is that it isn't necessary to have Niji act like a total douchebag to do this. But yes, Niji does, and I take that to mean that the manga is trying to make me hate Niji, which is an artifical way to set the viewer up on Sanji's side. It feels manipulative, and it only makes me want to push back against that manipulation. My point isn't that Niji is morally right, he's not. Just that I am being pushed into that conclusion, and that's what I don't like.

Edit: I just went back and checked. It was Usopp, and he didn't have any interaction with him before that iirc, so he was basically insisting to a customer he didn't know to finish his plate even though Usopp didn't want to. So yeah, he forces it on everyone, or atleast if they have a penis.

 

[MCD]

Sanji made a big deal out of it because:

- The brother started the trolling.

- Brothers' words can really hurt. As the youngest brother in the family, I can tell Sanji is just tired of his shit talk. Brothers can be mean dicks even if sometime they don't mean it.

- The guy throw a goddamn plate like it was a fucking nothing at a helpless woman. WTF. He could have trolled Sanji more or heck throw the plate at him but no, the spoiled little brat got even more annoying.


The only thing weird about the whole family is the sister. Plotting something against Sanji? Playing Game of Thrones mind games? Or is she Robin version 2? Is she is weird because the way these assholes treat women and her being just there smiling is creepy.

 

[Lunar15]

To be fair Vleek, I really don't fully disagree with you, I just don't look at it as anything distasteful or all that manipulative. For this series, at least. Personally, I think there's some kind of subversion coming, given how thick Oda's laying it on this time, but at the moment there's no proof of that.

That said, I definitely want to go read your opinions on MHA. It's somewhat the cure for modern One Piece.

 

[Ganzlinger]

Based on what we know of Sanji, I don't think that's the case. Sanji was insisting that he finish his food BEFORE Niji said that he ate chocolates before and that he didn't like his dish. Until Sanji brought it up, Niji wasn't even paying attention to it, he just put it aside, and it's absurd he has to offer any explanation at all. I mean, so what if he did eat chocolates before? Again, he's an adult, these is his meals, the cook is his servant, he has a right to eat candy and ice cream and spoil his dinner if he wants. The only thing out of line here is his rudeness, but Sanji - SANJI who is a total dick to every guy he meets by default - doesn't call people out for rudeness. Sanji's insistence on everyone finishing their meals was established back in the Baratie arc, against taht one marine guy, but he was rude about it to Zoro as well iirc, who I'm pretty sure he didn't know at the time. So, my understanding is that he tells EVERYONE to finish their meals, and that's because of his starvation trip (though he's probably nicer to women about it). Which, like I said, is not an excuse to force others into eating.

But I was responding to Lunar's point that the situation Oda set up wasn't to make us hate Niji, but rather to accentuate the idealogical conflict between them. My counterpoint is that it isn't necessary to have Niji act like a total douchebag to do this. But yes, Niji does, and I take that to mean that the manga is trying to make me hate Niji, which is an artifical way to set the viewer up on Sanji's side. It feels manipulative, and it only makes me want to push back against that manipulation. My point isn't that Niji is morally right, he's not. Just that I am being pushed into that conclusion, and that's what I don't like.

Edit: I just went back and checked. It was Usopp, and he didn't have any interaction with him before that iirc, so he was basically insisting to a customer he didn't know to finish his plate even though Usopp didn't want to. So yeah, he forces it on everyone, or atleast if they have a penis.

I know he doesn't like to waste food, but he is not that insistent, unless people are being a prick, and yes, theorically the cook is there to serve, but in the Baratie it was already established that Sanji is more like a punk (hitting Fullbody is the best example).

I just think it's a little exaggeration saying that he is obsessed with forcing people to eat when they don't want, this is hardly how I'd describe him. How about we say that Sanji doesn't like when people waste food with no good reasons?

Usopp didn't want to finish because he said he hates mushrooms since he was poisoned by one. Sanji said they weren't poisoned and asked him to eat it. It's more like a gag scene than anything. Besides that, Usopp was interrupting Sanji's flirt with Nami, and yelling about gender discrimination, he was obviously annoyed.

Fullbody tried to frame the restaurant over some fly that he put on the soup. He obviously pissed Sanji with that, disgracing the food.

Like I said before, Niji was mocking Sanji during all the dinner, obviously Sanji was already pissed. See the pattern? If you start pissing Sanji around food, he will be a prick about it in retaliation. There is no other panels in the manga of people really complaining about this side of Sanji, perhaps we are taking some rare situations where he insisted as the norm? There are many many scenes with people eating around him and he doesn't complain. Could have been there weren't any leftovers this whole time? Unlikely.

I know you get Oda and the character so you know this is supposed to be a good lesson and not treated as some invasive behavior. But like you already said, since you know you are being manipulated, you choose to challenge Oda and states that Sanji's policy is actually bad when it is clearly supposed to be good. I'm not criticizing you, I do that sometimes. But I don't think it's actually a character's fault, more like an author's decision that you disagree.

 

[Blackleg-sanji1]

Reiju is totally the Robin of this arc. The way she's just observing everything it totally reminds me of Robin working under crocodile

 

[MCD]

Reiju is totally the Robin of this arc. The way she's just observing everything it totally reminds me of Robin working under crocodile

She's not in the panel where Sanji tells the family how much he despises them. But personally, I don't want her to be Robin 2. I want her to be as despicable as the others.

 

[Blackleg-sanji1]

She's not in the panel where Sanji tells the family how much he despises them. But personally, I don't want her to be Robin 2. I want her to be as despicable as the others.

Somebody has to be good in this group it's tradition. She's already out here saving her enemies so be prepared. I'm fine with it.

 

[Tathanen]

I've started reading MHA cause of you guys too. Just five chapters in, but neat so far! It'll be nice to have another weekly to follow.

 

[UnemployedVillain]

Somebody has to be good in this group it's tradition. She's already out here saving her enemies so be prepared. I'm fine with it.

They have her in the flashbacks laughing along with the rest of them. She was the one who put the explosive bracelets on Sanji. She's not good

 

[Blackleg-sanji1]

They have her in the flashbacks laughing along with the rest of them. She was the one who put the explosive bracelets on Sanji. She's not good

All according to keikaku

 

[Xux]

Maybe they're duds or she sabotaged them.

The bracelets seem like a setup for Sanji picking to save someone's life over being able to cook again. Like, it'd be neat if they don't just get the keys and he just tears them off after Judge fails to blow him up.