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One Piece Manga |OT2| Four Emperors, One King, All Blue

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Veelk

Banned
I know he doesn't like to waste food, but he is not that insistent, unless people are being a prick, and yes, theorically the cook is there to serve, but in the Baratie it was already established that Sanji is more like a punk (hitting Fullbody is the best example).

I just think it's a little exaggeration saying that he is obsessed with forcing people to eat when they don't want, this is hardly how I'd describe him. How about we say that Sanji doesn't like when people waste food with no good reasons?

Usopp didn't want to finish because he said he hates mushrooms since he was poisoned by one. Sanji said they weren't poisoned and asked him to eat it. It's more like a gag scene than anything. Besides that, Usopp was interrupting Sanji's flirt with Nami, and yelling about gender discrimination, he was obviously annoyed.

You're being way more lenient with what is intepretted than is warranted in this series. You're basically saying "No, of course he wouldn't do that, that'd be ridiculous".

Well...yeah. That's One Piece for you. Who the hell in this series isn't ridiculous? Luffy eats giant pounds of food, Chopper just a few chapters ago couldn't stop munching on Pudding's cafe, Usopp makes the most exaggerated lies, etc. You can call them gags, but that doesn't stop them from being actual things that happen. These are acknowledge events, other characters witness them and interpret them as literal truths. That argument really goes around pretty often as a way of dismissing a lot of the stuff that happens in the series that doesn't make sense in some level, and whenever it's brought up, I always think "What do you think is actually going on that gives us a consistently distorted view to the point where the reader can't be trusted to view repeatedly acknowledged events as true?"

So yeah. I totally think that Sanji is the kind of dickhole who harasses people into finishing food they don't want. Why wouldn't he be? Every instance we've been shown of people not finishing their food has shown him to be exactly that. To deny this, your argument would have to come down to convincing me that what I see happening consistently across the pages of the manga on multiple occasions is just some kind of fever dream exaggeration of reality instead of what is actually happening. In the face of the fact that hundreds of ridiculous things do actually happen in OP, why wouldn't this also happen?

Like I said before, Niji was mocking Sanji during all the dinner, obviously Sanji was already pissed. See the pattern? If you start pissing Sanji around food, he will be a prick about it in retaliation. There is no other panels in the manga of people really complaining about this side of Sanji, perhaps we are taking some rare situations where he insisted as the norm? There are many many scenes with people eating around him and he doesn't complain. Could have been there weren't any leftovers this whole time? Unlikely.

Why? Sanji has no issue calling out and starting fights over anything with the male strawhats. They'd probably just avoid this issue by Sanji making right proportions and the crew finding his food too delicious to stop eating until it's all gone.

So yeah, I totally believe that they either always eat until there's nothing more or else Sanji starts shit over there being leftovers. Again, why wouldn't I? Because that's ridiculous? Welcome to One Piece. That's the thing when you go this extreme with silliness, it doesn't stop when such issues pop up. Because that'd make Sanji a dick? Well, yeah, that's my point. That's been my perception of him since he was introduced.

Honestly, worst case scenerio, if someone else REALLY doesn't want to eat more and Sanji can't force it down their throats (despite trying), he'd just eat it himself so as to not waste it, but he'll be pissed and mutter about the crew in resentment over it. But if you're still not convinced, just think about this: when have we ever seen a character drop a characteristic they believed to be important? One of the most recurring themes is that if find a character has some idea, they NEVER stop enforcing it. Whether it's Luffy never giving up a fight or shit like that whale waiting for Brook's crew for decades on end and brook still someone being obsessed about the stupid thing to see it again, or Whitebeard and his entire crew, we have literally hundreds of examples that when characters say "I value this", then they go to positively psychotic lengths to enforce it. Sometimes, it gets to the points where it's just incomprehensible, like how Bellamy STILL believes in Doflamingo, even after he's repeatedly betrayed, shown to be a horrible person whose values don't line up with Bellamy's, and even made friends with Strawhat, his mortal enemy...but he is still loyal to him at heart. That's not even the first time that's happened, back with Gin and Don Creeg or whatever, Gin took him back to safety after he repeatedly demonstrated no value for him. All because one commonly recurring value for men in general is that they stick to their captains, even when they hate them.

So, with all that acknowledged, you're telling me it's unlikely that Sanji, after getting extensive explanation for why he would never waste food, and being shown to enforce this belief over hundreds of chapters, every time it was brought up, is going to drop it whenever he's off panel? Because I'm supposed to believe that Sanji wouldn't go out of his way to make sure there are never any leftovers? That it'd be too rude, even though rudeness to men is one of his defining traits? Nu-uh. Not in this manga.

I know you get Oda and the character so you know this is supposed to be a good lesson and not treated as some invasive behavior. But like you already said, since you know you are being manipulated, you choose to challenge Oda and states that Sanji's policy is actually bad when it is clearly supposed to be good. I'm not criticizing you, I do that sometimes. But I don't think it's actually a character's fault, more like an author's decision that you disagree.

Thanks, and I don't mean to offend you either. It's just that, from the above quotes I made, I feel you're skewing Sanji into a more likable character than he's actually been depicted as. He HAS given people grief over not finishing meals, even strangers and people whose decisions he has no right to encroach on, and we've never been given a reason that he's ever stopped. The only arguments I see is that it would be unrealistic for there to never be leftovers from Sanji's meals (which is a self defeating argument when the event takes place in one of the most unrealistic manga I've ever read) and that Sanji would be a bit of a dick if he did that to people (which....yeah, he is basically what I'm saying. He's a dick.)

Now, it isn't to say that he hasn't done good deeds through the manga, or that Niji acted in an acceptable manner, or that Sanji wasn't even on edge because Niji was needling him and so on. All that's true and all. But it doesn't change Lunar's argument that this was about ideals, the things integral to his character. And the ideals that Sanji espouses are things I find distasteful, atleast how he frames them, if not in principle. So when Niji acts like a dick for no rational reason, it feels more like the manga is trying to pigeonhole me into supporting Sanji's view just because his opposition is worse than him, and yeah, I resent that.

To be fair Vleek, I really don't fully disagree with you, I just don't look at it as anything distasteful or all that manipulative. For this series, at least. Personally, I think there's some kind of subversion coming, given how thick Oda's laying it on this time, but at the moment there's no proof of that.

That said, I definitely want to go read your opinions on MHA. It's somewhat the cure for modern One Piece.

Fair enough. Like I said, I acknowledge this feeling is very subjective. It either matters or it doesn't. I find it an interesting topic to talk about because storytellers can't help but try and skew things a certain way, so it's kind of fascinating to me to think about how it works that sometimes I can be offended by it, sometimes I never even see it, or sometimes I do see it and just tip my had at a moment well manipulated. It's one of the least explicable elements of storytelling, because it's simultaneously supposed to be invisible, yet everyone knows it's there. It makes it difficult to parse when it works, when it doesn't, and why.
 

smurfx

get some go again
wonder if those people in the chambers are a clone army made from powerful people from the one piece world. maybe we get to see roger and whitebeards evil twins later on in the series.
 

GaimeGuy

Volunteer Deputy Campaign Director, Obama for America '16
I wonder tho, being stripped of their right to participate in the reverie will bring them CLOSER to their ultimate goal? In what way does disassociation with the WG benefit them?
Not being part of the Reverie might free them up to directly negotiate with the celestials. My guess is that for "official" governments, you need to go through proper channels and get clearance.
 

BatDan

Bane? Get them on board, I'll call it in.
*sees review of latest chapter*
*sees bunch of people yelling that Zeff never ate his leg*
Anime-only... not even once...
 
You're being way more lenient with what is intepretted than is warranted in this series. You're basically saying "No, of course he wouldn't do that, that'd be ridiculous".

Well...yeah. That's One Piece for you. Who the hell in this series isn't ridiculous? Luffy eats giant pounds of food, Chopper just a few chapters ago couldn't stop munching on Pudding's cafe, Usopp makes the most exaggerated lies, etc. You can call them gags, but that doesn't stop them from being actual things that happen. These are acknowledge events, other characters witness them and interpret them as literal truths. That argument really goes around pretty often as a way of dismissing a lot of the stuff that happens in the series that doesn't make sense in some level, and whenever it's brought up, I always think "What do you think is actually going on that gives us a consistently distorted view to the point where the reader can't be trusted to view repeatedly acknowledged events as true?"

So yeah. I totally think that Sanji is the kind of dickhole who harasses people into finishing food they don't want. Why wouldn't he be? Every instance we've been shown of people not finishing their food has shown him to be exactly that. To deny this, your argument would have to come down to convincing me that what I see happening consistently across the pages of the manga on multiple occasions is just some kind of fever dream exaggeration of reality instead of what is actually happening. In the face of the fact that hundreds of ridiculous things do actually happen in OP, why wouldn't this also happen?



Why? Sanji has no issue calling out and starting fights over anything with the male strawhats. They'd probably just avoid this issue by Sanji making right proportions and the crew finding his food too delicious to stop eating until it's all gone.

So yeah, I totally believe that they either always eat until there's nothing more or else Sanji starts shit over there being leftovers. Again, why wouldn't I? Because that's ridiculous? Welcome to One Piece. That's the thing when you go this extreme with silliness, it doesn't stop when such issues pop up. Because that'd make Sanji a dick? Well, yeah, that's my point. That's been my perception of him since he was introduced.

Honestly, worst case scenerio, if someone else REALLY doesn't want to eat more and Sanji can't force it down their throats (despite trying), he'd just eat it himself so as to not waste it, but he'll be pissed and mutter about the crew in resentment over it. But if you're still not convinced, just think about this: when have we ever seen a character drop a characteristic they believed to be important? One of the most recurring themes is that if find a character has some idea, they NEVER stop enforcing it. Whether it's Luffy never giving up a fight or shit like that whale waiting for Brook's crew for decades on end and brook still someone being obsessed about the stupid thing to see it again, or Whitebeard and his entire crew, we have literally hundreds of examples that when characters say "I value this", then they go to positively psychotic lengths to enforce it. Sometimes, it gets to the points where it's just incomprehensible, like how Bellamy STILL believes in Doflamingo, even after he's repeatedly betrayed, shown to be a horrible person whose values don't line up with Bellamy's, and even made friends with Strawhat, his mortal enemy...but he is still loyal to him at heart. That's not even the first time that's happened, back with Gin and Don Creeg or whatever, Gin took him back to safety after he repeatedly demonstrated no value for him. All because one commonly recurring value for men in general is that they stick to their captains, even when they hate them.

So, with all that acknowledged, you're telling me it's unlikely that Sanji, after getting extensive explanation for why he would never waste food, and being shown to enforce this belief over hundreds of chapters, every time it was brought up, is going to drop it whenever he's off panel? Because I'm supposed to believe that Sanji wouldn't go out of his way to make sure there are never any leftovers? That it'd be too rude, even though rudeness to men is one of his defining traits? Nu-uh. Not in this manga.



Thanks, and I don't mean to offend you either. It's just that, from the above quotes I made, I feel you're skewing Sanji into a more likable character than he's actually been depicted as. He HAS given people grief over not finishing meals, even strangers and people whose decisions he has no right to encroach on, and we've never been given a reason that he's ever stopped. The only arguments I see is that it would be unrealistic for there to never be leftovers from Sanji's meals (which is a self defeating argument when the event takes place in one of the most unrealistic manga I've ever read) and that Sanji would be a bit of a dick if he did that to people (which....yeah, he is basically what I'm saying. He's a dick.)

Now, it isn't to say that he hasn't done good deeds through the manga, or that Niji acted in an acceptable manner, or that Sanji wasn't even on edge because Niji was needling him and so on. All that's true and all. But it doesn't change Lunar's argument that this was about ideals, the things integral to his character. And the ideals that Sanji espouses are things I find distasteful, atleast how he frames them, if not in principle. So when Niji acts like a dick for no rational reason, it feels more like the manga is trying to pigeonhole me into supporting Sanji's view just because his opposition is worse than him, and yeah, I resent that.



Fair enough. Like I said, I acknowledge this feeling is very subjective. It either matters or it doesn't. I find it an interesting topic to talk about because storytellers can't help but try and skew things a certain way, so it's kind of fascinating to me to think about how it works that sometimes I can be offended by it, sometimes I never even see it, or sometimes I do see it and just tip my had at a moment well manipulated. It's one of the least explicable elements of storytelling, because it's simultaneously supposed to be invisible, yet everyone knows it's there. It makes it difficult to parse when it works, when it doesn't, and why.
I see. You must think that everyone in the crew are terrible people then. Perhaps that's true.
 
Currently downloading specific copies of Viz volumes.
Will be back with pictures of select giant animals.

Take your time. I'm patient.

I acknowledge that what I'm describing is pretty subjective. I don't agree that it's well done, but I think it's totally fair for you to feel otherwise.

Like I said before, storytellers aren't neutral. They arrange scenes and panels and music and composition to make people feel a certain way in certain scenes. I guess for me, one important trick is to make sure that the audience doesn't NOTICE that their being manipulated, and....well, with OP, I frequently do.

Personally, I believe that when you're creating a narrative, whether it's through tv, movies, manga,etc., there's always going to be some level of manipulative aspects that the creator wants to affect the audience, whether it's subtle or glaringly obvious.

*sees review of latest chapter*
*sees bunch of people yelling that Zeff never ate his leg*
Anime-only... not even once...

Where the hell was that?
 

SolVanderlyn

Thanos acquires the fully powered Infinity Gauntlet in The Avengers: Infinity War, but loses when all the superheroes team up together to stop him.
Ichiji still intrigues me. He's not an outright asshole like his brothers, but you can tell he's no good. He's much more calm and composed (kind of like Sanji in that regard) so I can't wait to see him get more dialogue and fight.

The way that the quadruplets are named and the massive cloning vats makes me think they might be clones of Jajji/Judge.
 

Dartastic

Member
...Sanji's sister may turn out to be okay though, which is cool. Really loving this backstory into Sanji. Excited for the rest of this arc. Gah, One Piece is SO GOOD.
 
The way that the quadruplets are named and the massive cloning vats makes me think they might be clones of Jajji/Judge.

But they can't be exactly clones, since they are really different physically from Judge (the chin and the size, they can't have only his DNA). They could have been fertlized in vitro and share the same DNA with Reiju's mother.
 

Xux

Member
What are those maps by Judge's throne showing? It seems too dense to be North Blue. Doesn't look like a full globe, either, and doesn't really match with the maps we've seen of the world. Though, if the map is more complex than a big ring of land and a big archipelago and some random islands, that'd be neat.
 

dabig2

Member
Ichiji still intrigues me. He's not an outright asshole like his brothers, but you can tell he's no good. He's much more calm and composed (kind of like Sanji in that regard) so I can't wait to see him get more dialogue and fight.

The way that the quadruplets are named and the massive cloning vats makes me think they might be clones of Jajji/Judge.

Same. It was interesting to see Niji take initiative in bullying Sanji, because when they were all younger it seemed to be Ichiji taking charge and the others following his lead. Here, it's like you said, he's composed and observing the situation. Then he offers a few words about the natural order of things. He's very much like his father here in that he's a stone cold psychopath, whereas the other 2 brothers are more your out of control and impulsive sociopaths.

Looking forward to more of the Vinsmoke children's interactions with each other. Reiju is a hard nut to crack too. She's shown in a much better light so far with some redeemable qualities, but she's still an asshole royal and seems to go with the flow. I wonder if she ever directly beat on Sanji too when they were kids.
 

Syntsui

Member
...Sanji's sister may turn out to be okay though, which is cool. Really loving this backstory into Sanji. Excited for the rest of this arc. Gah, One Piece is SO GOOD.

I have a feeling she will prove to be the worst of them. I'll go as far to say she did something to Luffy's organism when she retrieved the poison from his body, that was definitely not an act of goodwill.
 

RK9039

Member
I have a feeling Reiju is going to be the worst one, in terms of how evil they all are. Ichiji is going to be a stone cold killer and the other two are loud and strong. This arc is off to a great start.

I don't even love Sanji that much.
 

Lunar15

Member
Prediction time:

The wedding at the end of the Cover Story is between Lucky Roo and Lola.

This makes a lot of sense to me for several reasons. First, it's not a marriage Big Mom would ever willingly pursue, because Shanks isn't going to pledge fealty to another Emperor. This is perfect for Lola who wants to marry on her own terms, not her mother's. It'd be the first marriage, that we know of, that didn't put Big Mom at an advantage.

Second, it acts as a potential check to Big Mom should she become unstoppable to Luffy and crew. Lola can show up with Lucky Roo and call off any significant problems and coerce Big Mom to help straw hat against kaido, or call off any other really horrible thing she might do. Lola essentially walks in with something that takes much bigger priority over anything going on with Sanji and the Germa crew, which might help dissolve any tension or break off any bad arrangements.

Finally, it's a massive political shake-up, which is usually what Oda likes to pull out of his hat. In many ways, it clips Big Mom's wings a bit, making her less of a threat in the Pirate King race. She's also then a bit of a bedfellow to Shanks, which means she might be more willing to help defeat Kaido, who we've known is a bit of an adversary to the Red Hair Pirates. It puts basically everyone into an awkward situation, which is just an extremely Oda thing to do.
 

Syntsui

Member
Prediction time:

The wedding at the end of the Cover Story is between Lucky Roo and Lola.

This makes a lot of sense to me for several reasons. First, it's not a marriage Big Mom would ever willingly pursue, because Shanks isn't going to pledge fealty to another Emperor. This is perfect for Lola who wants to marry on her own terms, not her mother's. It'd be the first marriage, that we know of, that didn't put Big Mom at an advantage.

Second, it acts as a potential check to Big Mom should she become unstoppable to Luffy and crew. Lola can show up with Lucky Roo and call off any significant problems and coerce Big Mom to help straw hat against kaido, or call off any other really horrible thing she might do. Lola essentially walks in with something that takes much bigger priority over anything going on with Sanji and the Germa crew, which might help dissolve any tension or break off any bad arrangements.

Finally, it's a massive political shake-up, which is usually what Oda likes to pull out of his hat. In many ways, it clips Big Mom's wings a bit, making her less of a threat in the Pirate King race. She's also then a bit of a bedfellow to Shanks, which means she might be more willing to help defeat Kaido, who we've known is a bit of an adversary to the Red Hair Pirates. It puts basically everyone into an awkward situation, which is just an extremely Oda thing to do.

Why would you bet that Mama cares that much about Lola, considering we saw her murder (doubt he is dead, but...) her son over some petty stuff?
 
Prediction time:

The wedding at the end of the Cover Story is between Lucky Roo and Lola.

This makes a lot of sense to me for several reasons. First, it's not a marriage Big Mom would ever willingly pursue, because Shanks isn't going to pledge fealty to another Emperor. This is perfect for Lola who wants to marry on her own terms, not her mother's. It'd be the first marriage, that we know of, that didn't put Big Mom at an advantage.

Second, it acts as a potential check to Big Mom should she become unstoppable to Luffy and crew. Lola can show up with Lucky Roo and call off any significant problems and coerce Big Mom to help straw hat against kaido, or call off any other really horrible thing she might do. Lola essentially walks in with something that takes much bigger priority over anything going on with Sanji and the Germa crew, which might help dissolve any tension or break off any bad arrangements.

Finally, it's a massive political shake-up, which is usually what Oda likes to pull out of his hat. In many ways, it clips Big Mom's wings a bit, making her less of a threat in the Pirate King race. She's also then a bit of a bedfellow to Shanks, which means she might be more willing to help defeat Kaido, who we've known is a bit of an adversary to the Red Hair Pirates. It puts basically everyone into an awkward situation, which is just an extremely Oda thing to do.
I want this so we can have motherfucking Shanks appearing and fighting in this arc.
 

Lunar15

Member
Why would you bet that Mama cares that much about Lola, considering we saw her murder (doubt he is dead, but...) her son over some petty stuff?

It's not that she would care about Lola or immediately sympathize with her. It's that Lola would be causing an issue far bigger than whatever the strawhats/germa are. It'd immediately take up her attention. It's like Shanks showing up at Marineford: Everything would grind to a stand still. Big Mom would be put in a vice real quick.

That said, I do think that Big Mom does love her family to some degree. Her attack on her son seems to be driven by her food madness, where she's not herself.
 
Just a reminder of who will be joining next:
12479296_1715444718741974_354239375_n.jpg


T81o0L4.png
 

Xux

Member
Big Mom's gonna be so impressed by Sanji's
selflessness that she decides to have Jimbei join the Straw Hats and be allies instead of go through with the marriage.
 

Slayven

Member
Sanji is going to have to fuck up his whole family right?

I think Chopper and Nami are going to end up with him before the rest of the crew
 

Rebel Leader

THE POWER OF BUTTERSCOTCH BOTTOMS
Big Mom's gonna be so impressed by Sanji's
selflessness that she decides to have Jimbei join the Straw Hats and be allies instead of go through with the marriage.

Hell no.

I paid for a yonko fight, I'm getting me a yonko fight
 

SolVanderlyn

Thanos acquires the fully powered Infinity Gauntlet in The Avengers: Infinity War, but loses when all the superheroes team up together to stop him.
Ironically Vivi is still one of the only "stereotypically pretty" female characters to look different from other female characters of the same type, and not fall victim to Oda's sameface disease
 

Man God

Non-Canon Member
Ironically Vivi is still one of the only "stereotypically pretty" female characters to look different from other female characters of the same type, and not fall victim to Oda's sameface disease

....Are you joking?

There's tons of panels where Vivi looks like palette swapped Nami.
 

Ray Down

Banned
Just a reminder of who will be joining next:

You forgot the Usoop panel, but here a new angle.

Usoop said Luffy will become KoP, has left the crew at one point.
Zoro said Luffy will become KoP, Has threatened to leave the crew.
Sanji said Luffy will become KoP, is no longer with the crew atm.

Coincidence I think not.
 
You forgot the Usoop panel, but here a new angle.

Usoop said Luffy will become KoP, has left the crew at one point.
Zoro said Luffy will become KoP, Has threatened to leave the crew.
Sanji said Luffy will become KoP, is no longer with the crew atm.

Coincidence I think not.
Nami also said it after Sanji.
 
It better be an epic entrance/walk scene I'm talking arlong park,franky house,enies lobby fishman island style
fuck yeah my man
Hoping itll top them all

There will be no fight between Big Mom and the Straw Hats. I guarantee it
Perhaps not the Strawhats but Luffy for sure, I doubt it will be conclusive though, Luffy defeating Big Mom here would be pretty unpredented. I think Oda's is popping the Yonko cherry with Kaido.

You forgot the Usoop panel, but here a new angle.

Usoop said Luffy will become KoP, has left the crew at one point.
Zoro said Luffy will become KoP, Has threatened to leave the crew.
Sanji said Luffy will become KoP, is no longer with the crew atm.

Coincidence I think not.
Yeah I was too lazy to grab the rest. I might do it later.
I would go apeshit if Vivi joined. The excuse of being there for her kingdom might not matter once the WG goes full 1984 on the world. She'll have to join with Luffy to save Alabasta. Can you feel it!!!!
 

Kornflayx

Member
Perhaps not the Strawhats but Luffy for sure, I doubt it will be conclusive though, Luffy defeating Big Mom here would be pretty unpredented. I think Oda's is popping the Yonko cherry with Kaido.

I don't think it will be even that. Oda will write the perfect storm of other factors making Big Mom an unlikely ally to face Kaido. Sanji, with the help of Pudding, will create the perfect sweet. After that Nami will melt her heart with Lola's Vivre card.

I think the Vinsmokes and Big Moms commanders are more likely to be the main "fighting villains" of this arc.
 
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