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[Veelk]

Novel authors don't write and draw chapters weekly .
Second i not sure what a feminists is suppose to tell Oda about his comic that aim at 15 year old boys .

The same thing they'd tell all other mediums and demographics, I imagine. Feminism isn't just for girls, it's for everyone.

 

[Tathanen]

No, that's not human nature. (Or mink nature, as you prefer)

Well, maybe it IS Mink nature. They're pretty weird, what with all their garchuu and lickin. I can accept this particular instance since they're literally a straight up different species living isolated on an elephant for a thousand years.

RE: manga authors and feedback, I'd imagine their editor filters any of that to them. Editors really are hugely influential in what goes into any manga, there are a lot of examples of that in various interviews with various authors.

 

[Veelk]

Well, maybe it IS Mink nature. They're pretty weird, what with all their garchuu and lickin. I can accept this particular instance since they're literally a straight up different species living isolated on an elephant for a thousand years.

RE: manga authors and feedback, I'd imagine their editor filters any of that to them. Editors really are hugely influential in what goes into any manga, there are a lot of examples of that in various interviews with various authors.

Well, the preson I was responding to was saying minks are just regular humans that happened to have their furry dreams come true, so saying it's not human nature seems apt. It wouldn't make sense to me anyway. Some species of animals like dogs, sure, but predators would have no compulsions about throwing threats to their existence to the wolves, so to speak.

Besides, being a different culture is always hard for me to parse when they speak the same language and have several of the same values. But that's hardly unique to oda. When I see alien species (which is what the minks would basically be after all this time), I like them to be actually alien.

 

[gundamkyoukai]

The same thing they'd tell all other mediums, I imagine. Feminism isn't just for girls, it's for everyone.

At the end of the day OP is comic for 15 years old boys and Feminism issues are not a big part of it .
It will use stereotypes , tropes , fan service good or bad to certain people .

 

[Veelk]

At the end of the day OP is comic for 15 years old boys and Feminism issues are not a big part of it .
It will use stereotypes and tropes good or bad to certain people .

Then you basically do not understand the most fundamental aspect of feminism.

 

[gundamkyoukai]

Then you basically do not understand the most fundamental aspect of feminism.

Give me a break .
You fail to understand target demographics .

 

[AntraxSuicide]

At the end of the day OP is comic for 15 years old boys and Feminism issues are not a big part of it .
It will use stereotypes , tropes , fan service good or bad to certain people .

The point to feminism is that it's not just to benefit women. I'm a guy, and I've pretty much avoided fan service heavy media as straight garbage because it's insulting. One Piece started as a great series on that specific front (lots of fronts, but this was one of them). I was always really impressed that Nami joined up really early and seemed to be more than a stripper in the series.

Boy did that change, and I can't say that my enjoyment of One Piece didn't drop (hard at first) when the time skip happened.

 

[Veelk]

Give me a break .
You fail to understand target demographics .

No, you really just fail to understand how the fundamental basis of feminist criticism. It doesn't disappear just because you label something a boy's club. In fact, trying to label something as exclusionary and saying that the representation of others doesn't matter as a result is basically the problem things like feminism was made to address. You wouldn't shrug off race criticism by saying a the first phase of Marvel movies is for the white demographic. You don't shrug off gay criticism by saying it's for the straight demographic. None of what you are saying works the way you think it does. Saying it's for teenage boys isn't a refutation of feminism because feminism isn't for girls, it's for humanity. There's no age, gender, ethnicity, or area where it stops being relevant.

 

[AntraxSuicide]

You wouldn't shrug off race criticism by saying a the first phase of Marvel movies is for the white demographic. You don't shrug off gay criticism by saying it's for the straight demographic. None of what you are saying works the way you think it does.

This is a good metaphor, and why I think we're generally worse about gender things than other issues. I think everyone would think "this manga is for white people" is clearly racist, and it's not any different from "this manga is for boys." Girls can like manga too.

 

[gundamkyoukai]

The point to feminism is that it's not just to benefit women. I'm a guy, and I've pretty much avoided fan service heavy media as straight garbage because it's insulting. One Piece started as a great series on that specific front (lots of fronts, but this was one of them). I was always really impressed that Nami joined up really early and seemed to be more than a stripper in the series.

Boy did that change, and I can't say that my enjoyment of One Piece didn't drop (hard at first) when the time skip happened.

What you find insulting other won't depending on whole bunch of factors .
Point is don't read OP expecting certain things .

No, you really just fail to understand how the fundamental basis of feminist criticism. It doesn't disappear just because you label something a boy's club. In fact, trying to label something as exclusionary and saying that the representation of others doesn't matter as a result is basically the problem things like feminism was made to address. You wouldn't shrug off race criticism by saying a the first phase of Marvel movies is for the white demographic. You don't shrug off gay criticism by saying it's for the straight demographic. None of what you are saying works the way you think it does. Saying it's for teenage boys isn't a refutation of feminism because feminism isn't for girls, it's for humanity. There's no age, gender, ethnicity, or area where it stops being relevant.

Feminism was made to address equal opportunities for women .
Of course this has change over the years into a whole bunch of different aspect .
It has nothing to do with it being a boys club males and females have different like and dislike .

 

[Veelk]

What you find insulting other won't depending on whole bunch of factors .
Point is don't read OP expecting certain things .

Because sensible, nonsexually objectifying designs for female characters that OP had in the beginning and were also one of the things that sold the fan you're responding to on the series is such an unreasonable expectation.

Feminism was made to address equal opportunities for women .
Of course this has change over the years into a whole bunch of different aspect .
It has nothing to do with it being a boys club males and females have different like and dislike .

I can't think of a more boys club mentality than deciding pre-emptively that boys and girls have fundamentally different dislikes and likes, uses that conclusion to justify it's exclusionary practices, and refuses to acknowledge that when the series has an openly huge female fanbase as large as the males. The equal opportunities your referring to include the opportunity to be depicted in the same respect as men.

You know what, don't even continue this conversation with me. Tell Cindi how the manga isn't for her to enjoy. Tell her that, being female, she must just not really like what One Piece offers "because men and women like different things", and she has no right to expect to her gender to not be represented in a shitty manner because of that. Because that's the statement you're basically trying to tell me, that Cindi can stay out on the fringes, but is otherwise not welcome. Lets see how much conviction you have in this conversation when saying it to someone whose more directly affected by it.

And before you say "That's not what I'm saying", it fucking is. You're trying to justify shitty treatment on the basis that teenage boys like and should like female characters being treated shitty and feminists have no right to infringe on that. Fuck that. You can enjoy One Piece despite it's shitty treatment of female characters, but you can't excuse it.

 

[gundamkyoukai]

Because sensible, nonsexually objectifying designs for female characters that OP had in the beginning and were also one of the things that sold the fan you're responding to on the series is such an unreasonable expectation.

Now OP sells way more than it did in the beginning .
Wonder what that says , this is still something there are selling .

EDIT I really don't understand what you expect from OP sometimes when it comes to this.

I can't think of a more boys club mentality than deciding pre-emptively that boys and girls have fundamentally different dislikes and likes, uses that conclusion to justify it's exclusionary practices, and refuses to acknowledge that when the series has an openly huge female fanbase as large as the males. The equal opportunities your referring to include the opportunity to be depicted in the same respect as men.

You know what, don't even continue this conversation with me. Tell Cindi how the manga isn't for her to enjoy. Tell her that, being female, she must just not really like what One Piece offers "because men and women like different things", and she has no right to expect to her gender to not be represented in a shitty manner because of that. Because that's the statement you're basically trying to tell me, that Cindi can stay out on the fringes, but is otherwise not welcome.

And before you say "That's not what I'm saying", it fucking is. You're trying to justify shitty treatment on the basis that teenage boys like and should like female characters being treated shitty and feminists have no right to infringe on that. Fuck that. You can enjoy One Piece despite it's shitty treatment of female characters, but you can't excuse it.

You don't talk or in this case i say write for me .
So don't try say what i mean from what i don't .
You seem to have this idea that what you are saying is right or you know better you don't .

 

[Veelk]

You don't talk or in this case i say write for me .
So don't try say what i mean from what i don't .

I don't care what you mean, but I have full reign to straighten out what your saying. Your basic thesis comes down to "Shit like sexual objectification is acceptable because that's what boys like and this manga is aimed at boys and it's had success, so it must be correct". If you want to change your argument, nows the time to do so, but it's the essence of what your writing and it is a shitty, disrespectful, and poisonous mindset. It's a shitty ass reason that's easily refuted, but that is what your argument has been up to now.

 

[gundamkyoukai]

I don't care what you mean, but I have full reign to straighten out what your saying. Your basic thesis comes down to "Shit like sexual objectification is acceptable because that's what boys like and this manga is aimed at boys and it's had financial success, so it must be okay". If you want to change your argument, nows the time to do so, but it's the essence of what your writing. It's a shitty ass reason that's easily refuted, but that is what your argument has been up to now.

No i saying sexual objectification happens because this is a product they are selling .
It's being acceptable or not does not matter because it has target group that buys load of stuff \ don't seem bother by it.
You can not cut out the target group \ commercial aspects of OP for eg figures .

My points has always been it's okay to want things to change but expecting them to happen is something else.
Would i like to see Nami look like she did in the beginning YES.
Do i expect to see it happen NO .

These things don't happen in a bubble .

 

[Veelk]

No i saying sexual objectification happens because this is a product they are selling .
Weather it's acceptable or not does not matter because it has target group that buys load of stuff .
You can not cut out the commercial aspects of OP for eg figures .

My points has always been it's okay to want things to change but expecting them to happen is something else.
Would i like to see Nami look like she did in the beginning YES.
Do i expect to see it happen NO .

These things don't happen is a bubble .

No one expects anything. Why would I expect Oda to see this blog? Whoever said they expected anything? This entire conversation is about whats acceptable. Trying to divert it by going "Guys, I'm just pointing out you shouldn't expect it" comes off as moving the goal posts for trying to stop the discussion.

Weather it's acceptable or not does not matter because it has target group that buys load of stuff .

And this is basically another way of saying "I accept this because profit margins are the most important part of one piece". You're basically placing the importance of One Piece to make money over how it affects it's audience.

Before this, you also said that Oda couldn't not draw different bodies for women because it's hard for him. I don't know how you can claim to respect oda when in your mind, he's a lazy, profit mongerer. I don't think oda does things for the reasons you think they do, but if I did, I would not respect him at all.

And this is all ignoring, btw, that MANY factors contributed to One Piece's fame. You have no basis to say "This is definitely why sexaul objectification is necessary". For all we know, the hypersexualization of female characters could have turned away more fans than it brought in. We have no way of knowing it. You're only going off the basis that all teenage boys are drooling morons with no respect for women, so no I don't really buy that his sexual objectification has been the key to his success, personally. One Piece has reached such critical mass that there's no way it would slow down unless it's narrative totally fell apart like bleach.

 

[flintstryker]

Why in fucks name every time I come into this thread its the same tired argument about some stupid bullshit that won't have any effect and anything, goddamn man.

 

[gundamkyoukai]

And this is all ignoring, btw, that MANY factors contributed to One Piece's fame. You have no basis to say "This is definitely why sexaul objectification is necessary". For all we know, the hypersexualization of female characters could have turned away more fans than it brought in. We have no way of knowing it. You're only going off the basis that all teenage boys are drooling morons with no respect for women, so I don't really buy that his sexual objectification has been the key to his success, personally.

I see we won't see eye to eye but i will reply to this part .
You do know that OP now sells loads more than it did in the beginning .
Even more so after the time time skip where things got very hypersexualization with Nami and Robin .
Now i am not saying that is the reason why it selling more .
It could be the story , the art , the characters etc etc a whole bunch of factors but that did not hurt the manga sales wise.

 

[BatDan]

Why in fucks name every time I come into this thread its the same tired argument about some stupid bullshit that won't have any effect and anything, goddamn man.

This thread used to be fun...

 

[Veelk]

I see we won't see eye to eye but i will reply to this part .
You do know that OP now sells loads more than it did in the beginning .
Even more so after the time time skip where things got very hypersexualization with Nami and Robin .
Now i am not saying that is the reason why it selling more .
It could be the story , the art , the characters etc etc but that did not hurt the manga sales wise.

And? This is proof of nothing. It's basic correlation =/= causation. People won't drop OP because of hyper sexualization, but how is that an argument that they would because of a lack of it? Your argument is currently premised on the idea that sexual objectification is justified because it brings in more dough for Oda. Other than that this is no argument for the artistic merit of the work itself, it contains no proof that it does.

This thread used to be fun...

Yeah, sorry, I didn't intend for us to jump into the whole sexism thing yet again after we just finished it up before, and I'll stop here. But the argument GY is presenting isn't just baseless and wrong, it's literally based in the bullshit that feminism is designed to address. By using the justifications he uses, he's literally arguing for sexism, without even being aware of it because of trying to justify it with profitability, or deflect it by changing the conversation to being about 'expecting' change when no one ever said they did. I'd let it go otherwise, but it's not just wrong, it's wrong in such a way that it shows he's barely aware of what the point of feminism even is. And that's just galling to me, since I thought we atleast moved on to the basic consensus that, regardless of whatever you might think of OP, we can acknowledge atleast that part is bullshit. But I guess not.

 

[flintstryker]

This thread used to be fun...

This is about the 5th time in the past few weeks I enter the thread to ask something about the story progression only to see pretty much the same argument ongoing, and this argument has been going on since there was just one giant manga thread and clearly nothing is changing.

 

[gundamkyoukai]

And? This is proof of nothing. It's basic correlation =/= causation. People won't drop OP because of hyper sexualization, but how is that an argument that they would because of a lack of it? Your argument is currently premised on the idea that sexual objectification is justified because it brings in more dough for Oda. Other than that this is no argument for the artistic merit of the work itself, it contains no proof that it does.

I was replay to this part of your post that said

For all we know, the hypersexualization of female characters could have turned away more fans than it brought in

We know it did not because sales were higher .
I am not using it to justified anything just showing you that line is false.
Already done with everything .

 

[Tathanen]

This is about the 5th time in the past few weeks I enter the thread to ask something about the story progression only to see pretty much the same argument ongoing, and this argument has been going on since there was just one giant manga thread and clearly nothing is changing.

Posts complaining about the presence of other posts are bannable for a reason. It's a worthless derivative dialog that contributes nothing. If you want to read something else, start the conversation.

And if this topic keeps coming up, gosh, maybe it means it's fundamentally relevant.

gundamkyoukai your stance on one piece has basically been to defend it no matter what the critique, even when it's the most flabbergastingly obvious and inarguable thing. That you're continuing this in this instance is really a bad look.

 

[Veelk]

I was replay to this part of your post that said


We know it did not because sales were higher .
I am not using it to justified anything just showing that line is false.
Already done with everything else.

Okay, this isn't even sexism talk anymore, this is not understanding how correleation doesn't equal causation. You need to isolate the variable to make any definitive conclusion about it. So no, we don't know it just because the sales were higher, because that could have been due to any number of influences.

Edit: actually, I should look up to see if there are any studies on whether sexual objectification increases enjoyment of a work of art. It wouldn't be a hard test to write up, just make some kind of story and have one version have sexual objectification and another without it, and have people rate them and stuff. Hopefully someone's done something like it.

 

[crimzonflame]

Do you think Smoker will eventually defeat someone?

 

[Tathanen]

Do you think Smoker will eventually defeat someone?

I bet he defeats some Kaido commander way later on.

 

[gundamkyoukai]

Okay, this isn't even sexism talk anymore, this is not understanding how correleation doesn't equal causation. You need to isolate the variable to make any definitive conclusion about it. So no, we don't know it just because the sales were higher, because that could have been due to any number of influences.

I am done with our debate sexism , feminism ,it being acceptable etc etc .
You wrote a line saying we might never know and i was using a fact to show other wise .
It make no sense to keep on going around in circles plus FFXV about to come out .

 

[RalchAC]

I never found the fact that people never give up their ideals in One Piece weird. I mean, it's writer belongs to a culture where:

- The Elite Class commited seppuku aka cut their belly open when they fucked up.
- Warriors would follow their Masters to death even if they know he was an stupid and worthless leader.

Not all did that stuff, obviously. But that seems to be the idealistic and romantic view behind the Samurai class. I don't think the stuff we see in One Piece is that different from Kenshin refusing to kill anybody in Ruroni Kenshin no matter what, or Naruto being Naruto because it's his ninja way or whatever.

It just feels much more notorious in One Piece. Because everything in One Piece is taken to the extreme.

Then Luffy becomes a destructive Yonko. But the fact remains that we have 1 definition for what constitutes a Yonko, and that is "four strongest pirates in the world."

I remember how ages ago we were told that the World of One Piece kept some balance because the World Government + The Warlords were as powerful as the Yonko (well, at least one of them individually, I still remember people losing their shit in Marineford when Shanks appeared).

The Yonko is a term that was created because Whitebeard and Shanks decided to block the road to One Piece, so the next two most powerful pirates (Big Mom and Kaido) had to settle down and start amassing power hoping that one day they'll be powerful enough to destroy the other Emperors and become Pirate King / Queen.

There are a lot more connotations to being a Yonko that just being strong.

Outside of protecting Fishman Island Luffy doesn't seem to care about protecting territory. Right now, you're right that, the Yonko are in a cold war--in a state of MAD essentially. Now, the only way that gets disrupted is if someone, like Luffy, comes along and breaks the stalemate. He doesn't even need to beat Big Mom to destroy the state of MAD that's been created, he just needs to disrupt and fuck her shit up enough to force her to abandon her stalemate position.

That's what I think is going to happen. Luffy's going to take the ponyglyph, or a rubbing, and destroy the stalemate in the process, he won't beat Big Mom now but will do so down the line. Even destroying the stalemate would be enough to send the New World into a feeding frenzy. From there Big Mom attacks Kaido while Luffy and co slip into Wano, clean up the situation with the shogun, and get out with another ponyglyph.

I'm just not sure he needs to, or can, defeat a Yonko yet. Even so, there's way this can all move forward.

The Yonko control territory from what we know about them. That seems to be a big part of the position given the aftermath of Whitebeard getting beat.

Yeah. Shanks seems to be the exception. His phoneglyph probably is on that tropical island where he gets drunk. That's it.

I don't think he'll defeat Big Mom any time soon either. Kaido seems like the first one they'd defeat, especially because stakes are quite high after the mink, the samurai and the destruction of the Devil Fruit factory.

Not so long ago, I thought that Big Mom may trick Luffy and throw him at Kaido in exchange of Sanji or his crew life or something like that. It would be quite cool. Luffy goes to Wano, weakens Kaido army and then Big Mom appears to finish the job in the middle of the arc.

This is a good metaphor, and why I think we're generally worse about gender things than other issues. I think everyone would think "this manga is for white people" is clearly racist, and it's not any different from "this manga is for boys." Girls can like manga too.

I think I read some time ago that even though the Shonen Jump targets male teens, lately the amount of females that read it has increased quite a bit. The split is much closer to 50/50 than it's ever been. They started greenlighting romcoms like Nisekoi and other manga that could appear to both genres like Food Wars (I haven't read much, but as far as I know both men and women have those foodgasms). Naruto was quite popular among young women too. I dunno about One Piece, but it probably has a sizeable female audience, considering how much it sells.

 

[SolVanderlyn]

Posts complaining about the presence of other posts are bannable for a reason. It's a worthless derivative dialog that contributes nothing. If you want to read something else, start the conversation.

And if this topic keeps coming up, gosh, maybe it means it's fundamentally relevant.

gundamkyoukai your stance on one piece has basically been to defend it no matter what the critique, even when it's the most flabbergastingly obvious and inarguable thing. That you're continuing this in this instance is really a bad look.

It never goes anywhere. There's a reason the Naruto thread got closed (it was over shipping and people constantly getting confrontational and arguing the same things). It's a valid complaint, like talking politics at Thanksgiving dinner. Does that stuff matter? Of course, but it destroys the atmosphere and doesn't serve any positive purpose. Nobody is raising awareness for feminism by complaining about women in One Piece in this thread (which, by the way, I agree is a problem).

I just want Shanks to do something. He and his crew better either

A) Go out with a bang

B) Contribute to the story in a meaningful way and not die <--- VERY PREFERABLE

 

[gundamkyoukai]

gundamkyoukai your stance on one piece has basically been to defend it no matter what the critique, even when it's the most flabbergastingly obvious and inarguable thing. That you're continuing this in this instance is really a bad look.

I also talk about the chapters and what happens in the manga also .
The critique is the same thing over and over and it goes no where .
I know what problems OP \Oda has i even talk about it sometimes .
It's not even about defending but saying it is what it is and the reasons why .( even if i don't agree\ like certain aspect of it)

Also some info on Oda before OP came out .

Shinobu Kaitani, whom Oda worked under before he started ONE PIECE, revealed an interesting episode about Oda in this week's Grand Jump.

Kaitani got surrounded by 7 editors including 2 deputy editors right before he started his serialization.
They threw tons of questions about his manga one after another. Kaitani recalls he felt as if he was put on trial.

Kaitani advised Oda, "I'm sure you will experience something like trial before serialization, but don't get overwhelmed by their questions".
As expected, Oda also experienced this "trial" before he started ONE PIECE, but thanks to Kaitani's advice he submitted his storyboard with "hardly" agreeing to editors' numerous fixing requests.

9 people seems like a over kill just to find out about a new manga lol.

 

[igordennis]

gundamkyoukai your stance on one piece has basically been to defend it no matter what the critique, even when it's the most flabbergastingly obvious and inarguable thing. That you're continuing this in this instance is really a bad look.

.

You wrote a line saying we might never know and i was using a fact to show other wise .
It make no sense to keep on going around in circles plus FFXV about to come out .

How can't you understand the very simple fact that we can't know whether or not sales correlate to the sexualization of characters because we can't isolate that factor? This is very simple stuff, even IF the sales had increased with the hyper sexualization of characters (and you are wrong on this one too btw, more on that later), it could have been because of the most variable reasons and all of them influencing the sales at the same time to go ultimately up or down. Theres literally no way of knowing whats actually influencing the overall manga's sales because there are hundreds and thousands of factors in play. Its just mind boggling that such simple logic is stumping you.

Also, sales did not increase after time skip, in fact sales of OP have been going down since the War of the Best climax. At that high point OP sold something like 35 million volumes in one year. Nowadays its selling 12-15 million last i checked.

Edit: just checked, 38 million in 2011, 23 million in 2012, 18m in 2013, 12m in 2014, 6m on first half of 2016.

 

[RalchAC]

.



How can't you understand the very simple fact that we can't know whether or not sales correlate to the sexualization of characters because we can't isolate that factor? This is very simple stuff, even IF the sales had increased with the hyper sexualization of characters (and you are wrong on this one too btw, more on that later), it could have been because of the most variable reasons and all of them influencing the sales at the same time to go ultimately up or down. Theres literally no way of knowing whats actually influencing the overall manga's sales because there are hundreds and thousands of factors in play. Its just mind boggling that such simple logic is stumping you.

Also, sales did not increase after time skip, in fact sales of OP have been going down since the War of the Best climax. At that high point OP sold something like 35 million volumes in one year. Nowadays its selling 12-15 million last i checked.

Edit: just checked, 38 million in 2011, 23 million in 2012, 18m in 2013, 12m in 2014, 6m on first half of 2016.

During the War of the Best it wasn't weird seeing 5 years old tomes in the top20. A lot of people caught up and started collecting the series from scratch.

I wouldn't call its current state a decline but the series stabilising. As far as I know (I'm not into that kind of stuff much anymore) the thing each new tome still sells over 3 million units.

 

[gundamkyoukai]

.

How can't you understand the very simple fact that we can't know whether or not sales correlate to the sexualization of characters because we can't isolate that factor? This is very simple stuff, even IF the sales had increased with the hyper sexualization of characters (and you are wrong on this one too btw, more on that later), it could have been because of the most variable reasons and all of them influencing the sales at the same time to go ultimately up or down. Theres literally no way of knowing whats actually influencing the overall manga's sales because there are hundreds and thousands of factors in play. Its just mind boggling that such simple logic is stumping you.

Also, sales did not increase after time skip, in fact sales of OP have been going down since the War of the Best climax. At that high point OP sold something like 35 million volumes in one year. Nowadays its selling 12-15 million last i checked.

Edit: just checked, 38 million in 2011, 23 million in 2012, 18m in 2013, 12m in 2014, 6m on first half of 2016.

You are looking at total vol sales per year , you have to look at sales per vol .
And you also seem to be missing my point that i was saying .
Hyper sexualization did not hurt the manga sales i never said it cause the sales to go up or it has correlate to anything.
What we do know is OP did not lose fans because of it since it sold less per vol before the time skip . ( it also start happening way before then)
I was done with the debate by then .

During the War of the Best it wasn't weird seeing 5 years old tomes in the top20. A lot of people caught up and started collecting the series from scratch.

I wouldn't call its current state a decline but the series stabilising. As far as I know (I'm not into that kind of stuff much anymore) the thing each new tome still sells over 3 million units.

During that time you were seeing 10 plus old vols on the list .
The series has be stabilising to around 3 million or so per vol .

 

[MANUELF]

Also, sales did not increase after time skip, in fact sales of OP have been going down since the War of the Best climax. At that high point OP sold something like 35 million volumes in one year. Nowadays its selling 12-15 million last i checked.

Edit: just checked, 38 million in 2011, 23 million in 2012, 18m in 2013, 12m in 2014, 6m on first half of 2016.

Sales per volume started climbing by Amazon Lily, I remember its first volume being the first to sell 2 million while still being on the Best selling weekly list, by the Marineford arc there Were many One Piece volumes in the top 50, I clearly remember the last 5 and the first 5 being on the list at the same time, also 2011 is the Year where the first volume sold 500k+ and the sales per volume are higher now than they Were before Marineford still, One Piece has shown that its sales are related to What happens in the arc so a good received arc will sell more than a badly received one and currently the Big Mom arc has been very well received

 

[dan2026]

I would argue that the One Piece manga has never been hyper sexualised.
In fact the 'fanservice' is fairly few and far between when compared to other manga in the same genre and geared towards the same demographic.

 

[Bandini]

Man, this shit again. Veelk doesn't even like One Piece but has made it his personal mission to argue about sexualization and feminism in it. As if doing so will change something. Oda is going to write the story he wants to write, period.

We're talking about a Japanese comic book here. Reading and discussion should be fun escapism from all the fucked up things actually happening in real life.

And people keep engaging him, over and over.

Ok, I'm done talking about this forever.

In regards to the current arc, what's really hooking me is the unpredictability. I have very little idea what's going to happen week to week, and even less in regards to climax and resolution. There's so many moving pieces right now, I can't wait to see what's going to happen next.

 

[Tathanen]

Man, this shit again. Veelk doesn't even like One Piece but has made it his personal mission to argue about sexualization and feminism in it. As if doing so will change something. Oda is going to write the story he wants to write, period.

We're talking about a Japanese comic book here. Reading and discussion should be fun escapism from all the fucked up things actually happening in real life.

And people keep engaging him, over and over.

Ok, I'm done talking about this forever.

For the record, I brought it up, not Veelk. And today I learned that discussions are only worth having because you think things will change because of them???

??? ???

I would argue that the One Piece manga has never been hyper sexualised.
In fact the 'fanservice' is fairly few and far between when compared to other manga in the same genre and geared towards the same demographic.

I agree. But while there's some of that in there, it's never really been the real criticism. It's not about skimpy clothes, it's about how the women act, and what they're allowed to do narratively.

 

[dan2026]

Somehow I am actually most invested in the Chopper/Carrot side of the story.

I want to see exactly how Chopper is going to turn the tables on Brulee.

I have this vision of Big Mom or somebody looking at a mirror and a battered Brulee flying through a mirror into the castle.

I agree. But while there's some of that in there, it's never really been the real criticism. It's not about skimpy clothes, it's about how the women act, and what they're allowed to do narratively.

Sanji hasn't been able to do anything narratively worthwhile for about half the series until this arc.
Brook and Chopper haven't had much to do really since their opening arcs.

What is it that that the women in the series should be allowed to do narratively, that they aren't being allowed to do at the moment? I'm not sure I exactly understand the criticism.

 

[Kave_Man]

At this point I'm just here to shit on Sanji and blackleg.

Otherwise I ignore everything else in here as I don't even have to guess what a few pages worth of discussion is most likely about.

 

[Cindi Mayweather]

Fucking again?

 

[Tathanen]

What is it that that the women in the series should be allowed to do narratively, that they aren't being allowed to do at the moment? I'm not sure I exactly understand the criticism.

Well I mean, I don't wanna really keep going on about it. That topic specifically is more Veelk's territory. But generally it's how they're excluded from most major fights. Looks like we've got some strong ladies in Big Mom's crew, though, so hopefully that'll start turning around.

 

[Veelk]

Well I mean, I don't wanna really keep going on about it. That topic specifically is more Veelk's territory. But generally it's how they're excluded from most major fights. Looks like we've got some strong ladies in Big Mom's crew, though, so hopefully that'll start turning around.

Personally, I feel like I should just start linking older posts, since most of the time stuff I already said would directly address the question being asked.

Part of the real problem is how cyclical the discussion is. Whats the problem -> Women can't fight -> Well they can -> points out differences between the genders in combat -> But that's not a problem because women are still useful -> right, but they still can't fight on equal terms -> well, they're still useful -> but that's still a problem (and then we go repeat the last 2 a few dozen times) *time passes and discussion eventually dies down* and wahts the problem?

I mean, this is more or less a stable community. Some people filter in and out and so on, but more or less, the same people remain here, so it's just tiring to have to make literally the same observations, provide the same evidence over and over again.

 

[dan2026]

Ok I get the criticism that the women never get to do any major fighting.
But then you could also level that criticism at Usopp, Chopper and Brook as well.

The bigger issue(if such it be) if nobody gets to fight much who aren't Luffy, Zoro and sometimes Sanji.

To be honest I don't come to one piece for the punch ups anyway. So it really doesn't bother me who gets to fight.

 

[Omnistalgic]

Hmmm...Interesting debate, I agree that the sexism is getting more and more annoying and time skip has been overall less enjoyable, but it's heating up. I honestly wish OP wasn't as long and was ending soon, I think we could get to the good stuff sooner, a lot of things have felt drawn out.

Also, it keeps coming up because it's annoying but people still like the story. I find the "oh brother, again?" post to be kinda ridiculous lol...Last week, (or the week b4?) there was a shot of Nami that was just obnoxious and completely unnecessary, not sure if its just more fan service or it happened less before or what, but it's pretty annoying as a 29 year old male to read certain chapters with my wife in the room. I wouldn't be surprised if someone came her to express their disappointment in it. If something keeps coming up, it's an issue, regardless of target audience.

Overall though, I just care about OP much much less than I used to and think it's been overhyped a bit. I am enjoying it, but it's next to impossible to have brilliant after brilliant arcs and storytelling for 20+ years in my opinion. I wish some writers would just end stuff before the Naruto effect happens. Or at least take a really long break or something like Dragon ball did.

 

[SolVanderlyn]

Sanji better win at least four fights this arc to make up for lost face. Good thing he has about that number of family members to beat down.

Reiju is cool though, I hope she helps him.

 

[bjork]

I reread the first part of Dressrosa (up until he introduces the birdcage) because I got some of these characters in the phone game and had no idea who they were. I need to go back and finish it though, because I'm curious to know what happened to the cactus dude that was stealing weapons.

Personally, I feel like I should just start linking older posts, since most of the time stuff I already said would directly address the question being asked.

Part of the real problem is how cyclical the discussion is. Whats the problem -> Women can't fight -> Well they can -> points out differences between the genders in combat -> But that's not a problem because women are still useful -> right, but they still can't fight on equal terms -> well, they're still useful -> but that's still a problem (and then we go repeat the last 2 a few dozen times) *time passes and discussion eventually dies down* and wahts the problem?

I mean, this is more or less a stable community. Some people filter in and out and so on, but more or less, the same people remain here, so it's just tiring to have to make literally the same observations, provide the same evidence over and over again.

So link to this post. That's all you need to do. I admire your passion for the subject but as you say, it's mostly the same people, so there's a level of "we know already" to this. I think you'd get cut some slack if you were actually a fan of the product, but you're entitled to your opinion either way.

 

[Ogodei]

I reread the first part of Dressrosa (up until he introduces the birdcage) because I got some of these characters in the phone game and had no idea who they were. I need to go back and finish it though, because I'm curious to know what happened to the cactus dude that was stealing weapons.



So link to this post. That's all you need to do. I admire your passion for the subject but as you say, it's mostly the same people, so there's a level of "we know already" to this. I think you'd get cut some slack if you were actually a fan of the product, but you're entitled to your opinion either way.

A lot of the gladiators do become important to the story, but not him, despite having one of the cooler badass designs from among the gladiators. I can't even remember his name because of how little was done with him.

 

[gundamkyoukai]

I honestly wish OP wasn't as long and was ending soon, I think we could get to the good stuff sooner, a lot of things have felt drawn out.

Well Oda say he at 70% but we all know he is never a good judge when it comes to time.
Still the last arc and this one seem to be moving at good pace .
PH and Dressrosa were too long but if he keeps up the current pace things looking good .
Still i don't see it ending soon ( in the next 5 years ) unless he super rush things which i hope he does not do .

He has so many things to cover 4 yonkou , void history , reverie , revolutionary army , character dream plus more.
Then there is the final war and who knows how long that can last .

 

[Imperial Bishop]

I swear, I can predict when this is happening.

Me: "Man, there's a lot of activity in the One Piece manga thread. Are spoilers out already? Or maybe it's another discussion about sexism again?"

*reads thread*

Me: "Called it."

EDIT: Just to clarify, I don't have an issue with this discussion but, as it's already been mentioned, it's the same people contributing to it. If there were more newer members adding to the topic, it wouldn't be so circular.

 

[Ray Down]

We finally have Film Gold locations:
http://onepiecepodcast.com/2016/11/29/one-piece-film-gold-north-american-release-dates-locations/

 

[BatDan]

Tragic news
The English dub voice of Blackbeard, Cole Brown, has passed away.