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[Big One]

I was about to call bullshit on this theory of yours but I honestly can't consider myself an accurate barometer for OP after this week. It could happen. Literally anything could happen.

Seriously what would be the point of Pudding telling Luffy, Nami, and Reiju that all the Vinsmokes + Sanji is going to die at the wedding? If it's supposed to be "secret" she shouldn't be telling them that in the first place. If Big Mom plans this, this is already disobeying Big Mom's plan at hand. Something is definitely fishy here.

This doesn't mean Pudding is entirely innocent mind you, but rather she's trying to use Big Mom's system against her to cause chaos at the wedding.

Chaos at the wedding means the Strawhats and Pudding can both escape the island unscathed.

Pudding is also a habitual liar as well, which we've already known for weeks now from the context clues Oda has given us.

 

[TheFlow]

yea. Chaos seems to be the plan at the wedding.

 

[Principate]

Considering Sanji was able to fool Luffy and Nami with his act and how many times Pudding fooled Luffy, Nami and Sanji, I'm not buying this. Even how you describe the difference between whispering and saying it out loud seems to be coming from your perspective as a reader. To us it definitely made a difference/made the reveal stronger and I definitely understand why Oda did it/I enjoyed the twist, but I think the affect would have been just as strong from Nami and Luffy's perspective of hopelessness if Pudding walked into the room and made fun of the Straw Hats openly/said she was going to kill Sanji with the rest of the room laughing at them with her.

Bruh did you even read those chapters? Seriously? What part of Luffy and Nami's reaction gave you even the slightest inference that Sanji managed to fool anyone? That fact that Luffy believed in her is the entire reason why a simple annoucement of betrayal wouldn't mean much as you could easily construe it as Pudding putting up a front to allay suspicion

 

[Deadly]

Considering Sanji was able to fool Luffy and Nami with his act and how many times Pudding fooled Luffy, Nami and Sanji, I'm not buying this. Even how you describe the difference between whispering and saying it out loud seems to be coming from your perspective as a reader. To us it definitely made a difference/made the reveal stronger and I definitely understand why Oda did it/I enjoyed the twist, but I think the affect would have been just as strong from Nami and Luffy's perspective of hopelessness if Pudding walked into the room and made fun of the Straw Hats openly/said she was going to kill Sanji with the rest of the room laughing at them with her.

Only family members knows of her true nature so she had to get in close to be a bitch to them.

Seriously what would be the point of Pudding telling Luffy, Nami, and Reiju that all the Vinsmokes + Sanji is going to die at the wedding? If it's supposed to be "secret" she shouldn't be telling them that in the first place. If Big Mom plans this, this is already disobeying Big Mom's plan at hand. Something is definitely fishy here.

This doesn't mean Pudding is entirely innocent mind you, but rather she's trying to use Big Mom's system against her to cause chaos at the wedding.

Chaos at the wedding means the Strawhats and Pudding can both escape the island unscathed.

I mean it's pretty safe to assume that they're as good as dead from a bad guys POV.

 

[ArgyleReptile]

Only family members knows of her true nature so she had to get in close to be a bitch to them.

Opera is her brother.

 

[gundamkyoukai]

Even if that was the case, I just realized, the plan she revealed doesn't make sense. Why would Big Mom wait until the wedding to kill the Vinsmokes? They are in her territory, on her island, with all of her crew. If she was going to kill them, why not just do it now or the moment they arrived? Why go through the whole charade of a wedding when the main players are all under your roof right and take all of their tech, which is also on the island right now. She has everything she needs and I doubt the Vinsmoke family are strong enough to take on a Yonko in their own territory. She has no real reason to set up this big betrayal. Unless she just wanted a damn cake out of this entire thing.

Because it much easier this way when there guard is down .
Even if she can take them down why waste any men doing it when there is a easier way .
Big Mom still has 3 other Yonko to deal with and it's better not to waste time , energy and men .
Or she can just be crazy that way lol .

 

[Deadly]

Opera is her brother.

There were other people around though like dude who inserted the bookmark.

I think it's clear she's just a sadist though and she plainly enjoys fucking with everyone.

 

[Ganzlinger]

Chapter was really amazing, and it was worse than I imagined for Pudding. The twisted face was all over ther chapter... and unlike the spoilers said, she didn't see Sanji. So the chances that she is acting narowed. I think this is her true face. If it is confrimed, she moved from a boring character to one of the best villains in One Piece history.

Finally Oda is giving the female villain we wanted.

I REALLY think the goal of her telling Reiju this plan is to ultimately stir shit between the Vinsmokes and Big Mom. I do not think Big Mom actually wants to kill them like Pudding says they do. Why would Pudding reveal a plan that Big Mom's actually trying to accomplish to Reiju of all people? I think this might be another elaborate ruse at play here. Pudding is going to have Reiju escape and warn the Vinsmokes of the plan and ultimately start a conflict between them and Big Mom, negatively affecting the wedding at hand.

I also believe she might've whispered those plans to Luffy and Nami so Big Mom's crew wouldn't know about her own plan to expose Big Mom or create a conflict.

This will depend on how and if Pudding will release Reiju. But I think this is happening so Reiju will escape and tell Luffy and Nami about Sanji's past and sacrifice (something that Pudding didn't tell them). Now Reiju definitely doesn't want the marriage for obvious reasons, so choosing the only ally Sanji has in the Vinsmoke family will be her mistake.

 

[NSESN]

hm.

Pudding putting both sides at each others throats while she runs away is so damn possible.

I can see that
After this chapter i don't think she will end up being good, but i think deep inside she is crumbling under pressure, probably she is seeing all of this as way of escaping Big Mom and not being her doll anymore

 

[ArgyleReptile]

Because it much easier this way when there guard is down .
Even if she can take them down why waste any men doing it when there is a easier way .
Big Mom still has 3 other Yonko to deal with and it's better not to waste time , energy and men .
Or she can just be crazy that way lol .

But their guard has pretty much been down this entire time and, again, they are in her territory. I'm sure she herself could take down Judge and all of his children without breaking a sweat and wasting resources.

 

[gundamkyoukai]

Why do people think pudding want to escape Big mom .

But their guard has pretty much been down this entire time and, again, they are in her territory. I'm sure she herself could take down Judge and all of his children without breaking a sweat and wasting resources.

I don't think the Vinsmokes are that weak .
I sure she can take them down but they also have there flying tech and what ever else.
Plus i don't think there guard is as down as much as you think .
Since Reiju had to find out something for pudding to capture her.

 

[ArgyleReptile]

There were other people around though like dude who inserted the bookmark.

I think it's clear she's just a sadist though and she plainly enjoys fucking with everyone.

That was just a Homie though.

 

[Cloud Strife]

Why do people think pudding want to escape Big mom .

Heavily implied with the Lola stuff, but we will see.

 

[Ray Down]

Haven't read the chapter yet but was there an oda box

 

[Ganzlinger]

Regarding Pudding acting innocent and disgusted by Big mom's side in Fishman Island, remember that Bobbins was there and according to Pudding, only her family members know her true nature. Bobbins isn't a Charlotte. So she was probably acting in front of him back then too.

Haven't read the chapter yet but was there an oda box

No.

 

[Blackleg-sanji1]

Oooor she's really a sweet lil angel but that eye takes control every once and awhile..Idk lol

 

[gundamkyoukai]

Heavily implied with the Lola stuff, but we will see.

But did we not find out all of that was a act .
As pudding said in this chapter Big mom ask her to trick Sanji .
So this has been a act \ there plan since the beginning .

 

[Kreed]

Bruh did you even read those chapters? Seriously? What part of Luffy and Nami's reaction gave you even the slightest inference that Sanji managed to fool anyone?

Don't confuse Luffy "believing/having faith" in Sanji as a crew mate with Luffy not believing what Sanji was actually saying. Luffy's belief in Sanji never faltered, but Luffy has no idea that Sanji is being forced to say/do the things he's doing. He just "knows" Sanji will come back. And Nami, there's no question she believed Sanji and has been since Sanji first left. It's Luffy who has been the driving force in getting Sanji back/if it was up to Nami they probably would have continued on without him multiple times now.

That fact that Luffy believed in her is the entire reason why a simple annoucement of betrayal wouldn't mean much as you could easily construe it as Pudding putting up a front to allay suspicion

Why would Luffy's belief in her change from her whispering if his belief in her was that strong vs raising her voice a couple of octaves? There is no difference in whispering to the two of them and saying it out loud for the rest of the room to hear in this regard. No one is saying she should "make an announcement" or some sort of alternative speech, just that she could have said the EXACT same thing she said to Luffy and Nami without whispering and it wouldn't have made a difference to the story at all, except for fooling us the readers.

 

[BassForever]

Pudding is a pathological liar any inconsistencies in her story or actions can easily be explained by this. She's very good at acting and I imagine in some moments the lie becomes true and she acts somewhat against her own interest to keep things believable on all fronts until she takes her true action.

 

[Cloud Strife]

Oooor she's really a sweet lil angel but that eye takes control every once and awhile..Idk lol

hehehehehehe

But did we not find out all of that was a act .
As pudding said in this chapter Big mom ask her to trick Sanji .
So this has been a act \ there plan since the beginning .

True, but I mean the scene where she's on the balcony alone with no audience. Also when we first met her she says a big deal of hers is to get married to "someone". Who's to say that she doesn't genuinely want to get married to the right person?

 

[Principate]

Don't confuse Luffy "believing/having faith" in Sanji as a crew mate with Luffy not believing what Sanji was actually saying. Luffy's belief in Sanji never faltered, but Luffy has no idea that Sanji is being forced to say/do the things he's doing. He just "knows" Sanji will come back. And Nami, there's no question she believed Sanji and has been since Sanji first left. It's Luffy who has been the driving force in getting Sanji back/if it was up to Nami they probably would have continued on without him multiple times now.



Why would Luffy's belief in her change from her whispering if her belief in her was that strong? There is no difference in whispering to the two of them and saying it out loud for the rest of the room to hear in this regard. No one is saying she should "make an announcement" or some sort of alternative speech, just that she could have said the EXACT same thing she said to Luffy and Nami without whispering and it wouldn't have made a difference to the story at all, except for fooling us the readers.

Your the one confusing it what on earth made you think Luffy believed a word of what what Sanji said? Show me panels because the chapter quite litterally states the opposite. You could argue Nami did but even she was implied to understand that he was likely lying but didn't care as he went too far regardless.

 

[Blackleg-sanji1]

Plot twist pudding is playing everyone and plans on taking out mama in the mix as well...

 

[gundamkyoukai]

Don't confuse Luffy "believing/having faith" in Sanji as a crew mate with Luffy not believing what Sanji was actually saying. Luffy's belief in Sanji never faltered, but Luffy has no idea that Sanji is being forced to say/do the things he's doing. He just "knows" Sanji will come back. And Nami, there's no question she believed Sanji and has been since Sanji first left. It's Luffy who has been the driving force in getting Sanji back/if it was up to Nami they probably would have continued on without him multiple times now.

Luffy\Nami know Sanji is being force in a way .
They found out the reason why he left them in the first place on Zou .
They might not the the reason why he still going on with Big Mom \ his family plan .
But they know that not everything is okay.

 

[bjork]

Who's doing the MS translation? It reads more like a chapter of Bebop High School than OP.

For reference

 

[Ganzlinger]

Don't confuse Luffy "believing/having faith" in Sanji as a crew mate with Luffy not believing what Sanji was actually saying. Luffy's belief in Sanji never faltered, but Luffy has no idea that Sanji is being forced to say/do the things he's doing. He just "knows" Sanji will come back. And Nami, there's no question she believed Sanji and has been since Sanji first left. It's Luffy who has been the driving force in getting Sanji back/if it was up to Nami they probably would have continued on without him multiple times now.

Luffy didn't believe Sanji, he even said that Sanji was the one feeling pain. Regarding Nami, she never stated clearly what she thinks, she understood Sanji didn't want their help and thought he crossed the line, even if he had reasons (that she didn't understand). But her shocked reaction from Pudding's words saying that he proposed to her (which means he would leave the crew definitely), shows that she didn't believe he would really do something like that.

 

[jbug617]

The thing is that the other Vinsmokes won't believe Sanji if he tried to warn them. Even if Sanji says to ask Reiju they won't believe her either because they know she is soft on him.

Only option is for Sanji to go in at the alter to have a fighting chance.

 

[gundamkyoukai]

True, but I mean the scene where she's on the balcony alone with no audience. Also when we first met her she says a big deal of hers is to get married to "someone". Who's to say that she doesn't genuinely want to get married to the right person?

I guess time will tell .

 

[Kreed]

Your the one confusing it what on earth made you think Luffy believed a word of what what Sanji said? Show me panels because the chapter quite litterally states the opposite. You could argue Nami did but even she was implied to understand that he was likely lying but didn't care as he went too far regardless.

One Piece chapter 844, there's a panel where Sanji glares at Nami and Luffy begins to doubt Sanji/believe Sanji's words. While Luffy still "believed" in Sanji and refused to fight him, he didn't doubt Sanji's words at this point. Nami even slaps Sanji at this point and says goodbye to him with tears in her eyes. After this, Luffy declares he's not moving from the spot he's in until Sanji comes back/tells Sanji if he doesn't come back that's where he will die/he can't become the pirate king without him. This is a proclamation in his belief in Sanji/his refusal to abandon him, but that doesn't mean he didn't believe what Sanji was saying, or that there wasn't any doubt that Sanji was lying. Now, this may be where we have to agree to disagree in regards to how this chapter plays out and our interpretation on Luffy and Sanji's interaction and that's fine/we can end this here as I'm only interested in discussing the Pudding twist and not getting too far off the original discussion I was participating in, particularly if you're going to keep asking me to show you panels and pages with no effort on your part to defend what you're saying.

 

[Fulminator]

holy shit

pudding really was a liar all along

i wonder how sanji will ever convince his family of this

 

[Sir Ilpalazzo]

Who's doing the MS translation? It reads more like a chapter of Bebop High School than OP.

For reference

Yeah, it was really iffy this week. The cursing stood out even more than it does in their Dragon Ball Super translations, lol.

 

[StarVigil]

Oda is seriously the God of Shonen. The world building is insane.
Compare how the adventure felt like when they started out. We knew that there is some serious shit going down on the other side of the ocean. Now we're here, and yeah, shit is cray.
Clone army, a city made of sweets that is alive because Big Mom takes the life force out of people. Everyone has their own agenda. And the fights are brutal.
I love Oda.

 

[Ray Down]

Oooor she's really a sweet lil angel but that eye takes control every once and awhile..Idk lol

I mean he can, Tezaku had a similar premise with one of his manga's.

Sharaku is frequently bullied for his childishness, and as such the story is also about how he fights back when the x-shaped bandage that covers his third eye is removed. Behind the bandage is hidden Sharaku's malicious third eye, and the boy's hidden evil genius emerges when it can see.

The last survivor of the three-eyed tribe have a third eye on his forehead which gives him astronomical intellect and psychic powers. In addition, "Abutoru-Damuraru-Omunisu-Nomunisu Beru Esu Horimaku" is a phrase in three-eyed script to control the weapon Red Condor.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Three-Eyed_One

 

[NHarmonic.]

This manga is firing up all the cylinders, finally we're back on track.

So who's eating crow about Pudding? It was really predictable.

Plot twist pudding is playing everyone and plans on taking out mama in the mix as well...

Oh yes please, do this Oda.

 

[Spinx]

Shamelessly stolen from AP

Whoa

 

[BatDan]

Who's doing the MS translation? It reads more like a chapter of Bebop High School than OP.

For reference

Yeah I noticed it too. Really jarring and another instance where the Viz version would be a lot more tolerable.

Plus, Shokugeki no Soma was loaded with spelling errors.

 

[NHarmonic.]

Shamelessly stolen from AP

Whoa

gODA

The attention to detail, damn i'm totally in for One Piece again. Amazing stuff.

 

[Aaronrules380]

Shamelessly stolen from AP

Whoa

This is a really cool detail

 

[burn this down]

Christ almighty, one final, ultimate L for my boy. Poor Sanji. I'm very curious to see how the wedding will go, if Sanji's just gonna go in accepting it, or if he's gonna put up a fight. Great chapter though, Oda's been on a roll between the Whole Cake Arc and the Zou Arc. Definitely better and moving at a faster clip than Dressrosa.

 

[Ganzlinger]

Shamelessly stolen from AP

Whoa

Confirming that Sanji's true love are his friends.

 

[Ganzlinger]

Seriously what would be the point of Pudding telling Luffy, Nami, and Reiju that all the Vinsmokes + Sanji is going to die at the wedding? If it's supposed to be "secret" she shouldn't be telling them that in the first place. If Big Mom plans this, this is already disobeying Big Mom's plan at hand. Something is definitely fishy here.

This doesn't mean Pudding is entirely innocent mind you, but rather she's trying to use Big Mom's system against her to cause chaos at the wedding.

Chaos at the wedding means the Strawhats and Pudding can both escape the island unscathed.

Pudding is also a habitual liar as well, which we've already known for weeks now from the context clues Oda has given us.

Possible, but she possibly thinks that Luffy, Nami and Reiju are going to die anyway and she just want to see the despair on their faces (she seems to be sadistic now). And of course, the villain always tells their plan in fiction because that's the way the author usually let the audience know the truth.

But yeah there are still some strange things regarding her, can't really trust Oda now. lol

 

[Aaronrules380]

Was talking to my brother about the latest chapter and I think he came up with a good theory. Maybe Chopper and Carrot are going to use the mirror world to help Brook escape the treasure room. It's currently locked from the inside by Brook, but the only normal exit is guarded by Smoothie and Brulee. That said, I could totally see some antique mirror or something like that being in a treasure room and Chopper using that to help bust Brook out of there without them having to confront multiple enemies that are frankly out of their league.

Also, we talked about how we could totally see their being a joke about Big Mom's life taking powers not really working on Brook because he's already dead lol. I could see Brook saying a line like "Take as much of my life as you want. Oh, but I'm already dead"

 

[Fulminator]

Christ almighty, one final, ultimate L for my boy. Poor Sanji. I'm very curious to see how the wedding will go, if Sanji's just gonna go in accepting it, or if he's gonna put up a fight. Great chapter though, Oda's been on a roll between the Whole Cake Arc and the Zou Arc. Definitely better and moving at a faster clip than Dressrosa.

i feel like there's no way sanji is going to take this lying down

idk what he can do, but there's def gonna be a big fight coming up

 

[smurfx]

now i wonder what the vinsmokes have up their sleeves that will enable them to fight back. there must be some powerful clones they have hiding away and waiting for the right time to use. maybe we will see some roger clones or even whitebeard clones. maybe luffy and the vinsmokes really will make a temporary truce so they can both get off the island. with reiju free she might end up being the one that frees luffy.

 

[burn this down]

i feel like there's no way sanji is going to take this lying down

idk what he can do, but there's def gonna be a big fight coming up

I'm not sure. Sanji seems absolutely broken in that last panel. Pudding was the brights side in that unwinnable situation. Now she's gone, but that doesn't change the fact that Big Mom is still holding the Strawhats and Zeff hostage essentially.

 

[Fulminator]

now i wonder what the vinsmokes have up their sleeves that will enable them to fight back. there must be some powerful clones they have hiding away and waiting for the right time to use. maybe we will see some roger clones or even whitebeard clones. maybe luffy and the vinsmokes really will make a temporary truce so they can both get off the island. with reiju free she might end up being the one that frees luffy.

you think they'll believe sanji if he tells them though? if Big Mom and co ambush them there's a high chance they actually will all die

 

[smurfx]

I wonder if Pedro and Pekoms were gathering the Road Poneglyphs for another Emperor. There are some signs Pedro might end up joining with his declaration that the Strawhats are the ones that will make change to the world. What if he was originally working for Dhanks and his "dream" has to do with something related to that.

no i think pedro will make his pirate crew again and become allies with luffy. pekoms will become his first mate and carrot might even join him. i'm sure other minks would be willing to fight for luffy as well.

you think they'll believe sanji if he tells them though? if Big Mom and co ambush them there's a high chance they actually will all die

we saw reiju free so that scene we just saw this chapter might of been in the past. sanji might have basically got destroyed but did just enough to get reiju free so she can do something. after all he can't go and set luffy free because that might cause big mom to kill zeff. if reiju is the one that does it then it won't count against sanji.

 

[Aaronrules380]

I'm not sure. Sanji seems absolutely broken in that last panel. Pudding was the brights side in that unwinnable situation. Now she's gone, but that doesn't change the fact that Big Mom is still holding the Strawhats and Zeff hostage essentially.

I mean, there's no reason for him to believe that the guarantee of the Strawhats' safety will actually hold anymore

 

[Kave_Man]

I'm just here to see Blackleg in shambles.

 

[burn this down]

I mean, there's no reason for him to believe that the guarantee of the Strawhats' safety will actually hold anymore

Maybe, but there's still the issue of Zeff. He or Luffy or somebody are going to have to figure out how they could protect him. Idk, maybe Sanji does figure something out, being the strategist he is. But man, he just looks completely defeated in that last panel, I can't see him seeing a way out with his mental state.

 

[Veelk]

Personally, I'm not convinced this isn't a double bluff. First of all, it doesn't make sense for Pudding to explain the plan to all these people except for Bond Villain Stupidity. Second, if this really is the Pudding being straightforward, tell me, would THIS be the right place to drop it? No, it would be as the wedding was going on. Narratively, it doesn't make any sense to make this bomb drop here.

I do hope Pudding still fucks up Sanji though.