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[Veelk]

We already have two points of comparison in terms of mainstream shounen. Naruto and One Piece. Naruto empathsize every single viliain outside of asspull big boss villain, like every single one. To the point that thr final villain is litterally just an anti-hero. Humanising viliains doesn't during a conflict doesn't inherently make them better it makes the character deeper but if all you do is that it gets absurdly stupid unless you ground their objectives too. (Coming up with empathsiseabld reasons for mass murder rape and genocide gets stupid eventually). Azula is a good counts point as she's practically a One piece villain only near the end of two seasons worth of character development does she change. Even then it's not greatly.

I mean, no narrative technique, by itself, will improve or ruin any series. That's a bit of a caricature of what I'm saying. Kishimoto's work sucks because he's a pretty bad writer, and if he did have OP-esque villains, it wouldn't stop all the other flaws like the repetitiveness, the contrivances, the convoluted and unbelievable backstories, that make Naruto suck. It wouldn't have saved Naruto, but it wouldn't have improved it. Writing works as a collective, so humanizing villains is not an automatic pass to good writing. It needs the rest of the content around it to be good as well as having the execution of it to be good. What I am saying it is, however, is a plus. I've certainly never seen it be a negative.

Also, I'm not going to go into the Azula debate because this isn't the avatar thread, but I disagree with that allegation and the idea of Azula being OP-esque makes me throw up in my mouth a little.

 

[Principate]

I mean, no narrative technique, by itself, will improve or ruin any series. That's a bit of a caricature of what I'm saying. Kishimoto's work sucks because he's a pretty bad writer, and if he did have OP-esque villains, it wouldn't stop all the other flaws like the repetitiveness, the contrivances, the convoluted and unbelievable backstories.

Humanizing people is not an automatic pass to good writing. It needs the content around it to be good as well as having the execution of it to be good. What I am saying it is, however, is a plus. I've certainly never seen it be a negative.

Also, I'm not going to go into the Azula debate because this isn't the avatar thread, but I disagree with that allegation and the idea of Azula being OP-esque makes me throw up in my mouth a little.

In season 2 what did you know about her and what were her motivations. You cannot tell me with a straight face that in season 2 she was a deeply emphasizable villain because that's a ball faced lie. She's used to contrast with Zuko in that season precisely because of that reason.

She's Machiavellian exact same archetype as Crocodile. They were both damn good at it.

 

[KuwabaraTheMan]

You.. You actually like chopper? Hmm who knew

I mean, Chopper isn't the greatest One Piece character, but at least he's not a Sanji.

 

[Lightning_Roller]

You.. You actually like chopper? Hmm who knew

The fuck is wrong with Chopper. He awesome, as well responsible for the treatment and care for the Strawhats and without him, they probably wouldn't make it this far.

 

[Loudninja]

The fuck is wrong with Chopper. He awesome, as well responsible for the treatment and care for the Strawhats and without him, they probably wouldn't make it this far.

Chopper has many talents as well, a doctor, can talk to animals, fight in many different forms as well.

 

[Blackleg-sanji1]

The fuck is wrong with Chopper. He awesome, as well responsible for the treatment and care for the Strawhats and without him, they probably wouldn't make it this far.

This is legit? no trolling, I can feel it. A chopper lover. What a weird fanbase Xp

Well he's more important than Zoro I'll give ya that

 

[Lightning_Roller]

Chopper has many talents as well, a doctor, can talk to animals, fight in many different forms well.

And this too. He is a reindeer of many talents.

Also, Chopper didn't have his soul snatched by a three eyed witch.

 

[Rebel Leader]

The fuck is wrong with Chopper. He awesome, as well responsible for the treatment and care for the Strawhats and without him, they probably wouldn't make it this far.

Chopper is meh

They could have found someone better

 

[KuwabaraTheMan]

This is legit? no trolling, I can feel it. A chopper lover. What a weird fanbase Xp

Why is this weirding you out? Chopper has always been an extremely popular character.

 

[Rebel Leader]

Why is this weirding you out? Chopper has always been an extremely popular character.

Most people have bad tastes

 

[Blackleg-sanji1]

Why is this weirding you out? Chopper has always been an extremely popular character.

Has he. Ppl like this reindeer?

Spoiler

I'm teasing o what you guys can do it for like half a thread Nd I can't boo

 

[Rebel Leader]

Has he. Ppl like this reindeer?

Spoiler

I'm teasing o what you guys can do it for like half a thread Nd I can't boo

Excuse me? He's a racoon dog

 

[Blackleg-sanji1]

Excuse me? He's a racoon dog

He's the emergency food supply if we're more accurate

 

[Lightning_Roller]

Most people have bad tastes

Yeah I seen that first hand in this thread.

 

[KuwabaraTheMan]

He's the emergency food supply if we're more accurate

That's Carue.

 

[Principate]

He's the emergency food supply if we're more accurate

That gag killed me, man that was so fucking harsh

 

[Ray Down]

Yeah I seen that first hand in this thread.

You can tell it by all the carrot lovers

 

[Rebel Leader]

Yeah I seen that first hand in this thread.

Stop talking about yourself. That's a horrible way to end days.

 

[Blackleg-sanji1]

That's Carue.

Chopper was first,carue left it's chopper again.

Inb4 carrot is next

 

[Veelk]

In season 2 what did you know about her and what were her motivations. You cannot tell me with a straight face that in season 2 she was deeply emphasizable villain because that's a ball faced lie. She's used to contrast with Zuko in that season precisely because of that reason.

She's Machiavellian exact same arche type as Crocodile. They were both damn good at it.

Pfft.

Crocodile chissed and toiled at taking over a kingdom for years and ended up failing. Azula took over the Earth Kingdom in 3 days. If they ever met, Croc would be begging for Machiavellian lessons from the 14 year old girl.

But in this case, you're right about her not recieving humanization early on so much as in Season 3 (which isn't like Mr. 3 or Bon Clay at all, since she is still an active villain in that time. Her humanization is more like how Darth Vader was just an evil dude in ANH and then revealed to have a human connection in ESB and then at his most human in RotJ. It's progressive, but not reserved just until after he's no longer a threat).

But she also isn't a OP villain in the sense that she doesn't waste time with "bwa-ha-ha" bullshit. She is RUTHLESSLY efficient, and that's something I can't say about any OP villain. That's not even me hating, people talked a few weeks back about how every villain underestimates the strawhats and would have killed them early on had they taken them more seriously. Kuma is the only one who ever just cut the bullshit, and he's the only one who ever truly defeated the entire strawhat crew. The only reason they survived was because he is actually on their side. Goda help the straw hats the day the come across someone who cuts the bullshit and goes straight to business.

Like, we're all talking about pudding and how she's the queen bitch of OP and all. And sure, I like pudding, more than most villains. But she revealed 1. Her candy jacket gun pointlessly 2. had Sanji overhear her true personality 3. revealed her true personality to Luffy. Azula wouldn't have catered to that stupid villain bullshit and laughed when her enemies were all dead and at her feet.

 

[Ray Down]

That's Carue.

Nah thats Sanji

 

[Lightning_Roller]

Stop talking about yourself. That's a horrible way to end days.

Who said I was talking about me?

 

[Rebel Leader]

Who said I was talking about me?

Well you do have a bomberman avatar.....

 

[Blackleg-sanji1]

Well you do have a bomberman avatar.....

Hey hey hey!! Watch it now

 

[KuwabaraTheMan]

Nah thats Sanji

When Pudding takes over as the new cook, I wonder if her first dish will be Sanji's heart. Salted for taste with his tears, of course.

 

[Ray Down]

When Pudding takes over as the new cook, I wonder if her first dish will be Sanji's heart. Salted for taste with his tears, of course.

Here Nami you can have his brain, sorry its so small.

 

[RalchAC]

Chopper has many talents as well, a doctor, can talk to animals, fight in many different forms as well.

- He is cute.
- He is the crew's meat reserve.
- He isn't a traitor (Am I doing it well, GAF?)
- He's got more cut in the past few years.
- His joke bounty is awesome.
- Has a nice back story.
- Knows Kung-Fu.
- He is even cuter since the timeskip.
- He is the least weird of the Grand Line crew members.
- And his interactions with Usopp are really funny.

Much better than Brook, who felt redundant until two chapters ago. He has my respect now though. Long live the Soul King!

 

[Rebel Leader]

Hey hey hey!! Watch it now

What are you gonna do? you can't tell me what to do!

 

[Lightning_Roller]

Well you do have a bomberman avatar.....

.....

That's low and you know it.

 

[Blackleg-sanji1]

Brook, chopper and Robin can fall in a ditch for all I care

In that order

 

[Ray Down]

Could be worse it could be a Ape Escape ava or a Sanji one.

 

[Rebel Leader]

.....

That's low and you know it.

If anything thing of 2016 taught us anything.

Going low wins

 

[Blackleg-sanji1]

Could be worse it could be a Ape Escape ava or a Sanji one.

I hate you for knowing what I like

 

[Lightning_Roller]

Brook, chopper and Robin can fall in a ditch for all I care

I'll would pray to god Pudding to wipe away Sanji's memories of cooking and his many recipes.

 

[Blackleg-sanji1]

I'll would pray to god Pudding to wipe away Sanji's memories of cooking and his many recipes.

A chef cannot forget how to cook ain't happening no matter what she does.

 

[Rebel Leader]

A chef cannot forget how to cook ain't happening no matter what she does.

Erase every memory sanji ever has

Boom. Instant baby
How can he be a chef if he doesn't remember wanting to be one?

 

[Principate]

Pfft.

Crocodile chissed and toiled at taking over a kingdom for years and ended up failing. Azula took over the Earth Kingdom in 3 days. If they ever met, Croc would be begging for Machiavellian lessons from the 14 year old girl.

But in this case, you're right about her not recieving humanization early on so much as in Season 3 (which isn't like Mr. 3 or Bon Clay at all, since she is still an active villain in that time. Her humanization is more like how Darth Vader was just an evil dude in ANH and then revealed to have a human connection in ESB and then at his most human in RotJ. It's progressive, but not reserved just until after he's no longer a threat).

But she also isn't a OP villain in the sense that she doesn't waste time with "bwa-ha-ha" bullshit. She is RUTHLESSLY efficient, and that's something I can't say about any OP villain. That's not even me hating, people talked a few weeks back about how every villain underestimates the strawhats and would have killed them early on had they taken them more seriously. Kuma is the only one who ever just cut the bullshit, and he's the only one who ever truly defeated the entire strawhat crew. The only reason they survived was because he is actually on their side. Goda help the straw hats the day the come across someone who cuts the bullshit and goes straight to business.

Like, we're all talking about pudding and how she's the queen bitch of OP and all. And sure, I like pudding, more than most villains. But she revealed 1. Her candy jacket gun pointlessly 2. had Sanji overhear her true personality 3. revealed her true personality to Luffy. Azula wouldn't have catered to that stupid villain bullshit and laughed when her enemies were all dead and at her feet.

Breh the Earth kingdom was weak and pathetic. The monarch was incompetent and frankly how that whole thing went down wasn't remotely believable. Crocodile defeated the protagonist twice one of the only villains to do so and had layers upon fucking layers to his plans. Crocodile didn't even really care about the kingdom and Azula was so small time she never had an important character break down in tears screaming out his name because he played he outsmarted and outplayed her every single step of the way.

He was like Beast Wars Megatron, he liked to hedge his bets.

 

[Ray Down]

Here's the thread I spent to much bullshit around with and made

https://orojackson.com/threads/pudd...moms-favorite-and-a-certain-fairy-tale.34302/

 

[LotusHD]

Brook, chopper and Robin can fall in a ditch for all I care

In that order

Such a hater

 

[Ray Down]

Erase every memory sanji ever has

Boom. Instant baby
How can he be a chef if he doesn't remember wanting to be one?

She can turn him into a man.

 

[Blackleg-sanji1]

Erase every memory sanji ever has

Boom. Instant baby
How can he be a chef if he doesn't remember wanting to be one?

You cannot erase the passion of cooking from someone.

Such a hater

Like all of u Xp

 

[Rebel Leader]

You cannot erase the passion of cooking from someone.

Oh yes you can

 

[Blackleg-sanji1]

Oh yes you can

Proof or it never happened

 

[Ray Down]

Proof or it never happened

It did happen but Pudding erased it.

 

[Rebel Leader]

It did happen but Pudding erased it.

Shhiiiittt son

 

[Blackleg-sanji1]

It did happen but Pudding erased it.

You know jokes aside for a sec. Any guesses on how to counter that ability or reverse it

 

[Rebel Leader]

You know jokes aside for a sec. Any guesses on how to counter that ability or reverse it

Probably the same as sugar

Distance is best

 

[Ray Down]

You know jokes aside for a sec. Any guesses on how to counter that ability or reverse it

we need to see more of it, though I would say it might have some trigger to reverse it.

Though my guess is once she gets inside there no changing.

 

[LotusHD]

You know jokes aside for a sec. Any guesses on how to counter that ability or reverse it

Knock her out, cover your head with Haki, etc.

I dunno though, I want to believe that you can't reverse it. I mean she legit just cut it out. It'd be weird for it to just magically go back into your head or whatever.

 

[KuwabaraTheMan]

You know jokes aside for a sec. Any guesses on how to counter that ability or reverse it

Grovel before Pudding.