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One Piece Manga |OT2| Four Emperors, One King, All Blue

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Ray Down

Banned
Makes her more of a boring character than she already was. Just last arc we had the possibility of ppl coming after her yes well let's say that clan is alive and hiding why not go after them instead?


Considering BM called pudding rare they could be low in numbers to the point people forgot about them like the Jedi.

And even then that doesn't guarantee there assistance or that they have that power, BM probably thought it be easier to nurture her own kid to follow her and develop the power.
 

Lunar15

Member
What's interesting to me is that Big Mom had a poneglyph before Roger went to Raftel.

Why would Big Mom want to go to Raftel before Roger left One Piece? I thought the whole point of the Yonkou collecting Poneglyphs was to find One Piece, which only exists due to Roger.

I thought only Roger cared about the poneglyphs because he could read them. To be fair, we actually have no idea why Roger became interested in the Poneglyphs in the first place.
 
Considering BM called pudding rare they could be low in numbers to the point people forgot about them like the Jedi.

And even then that doesn't guarantee there assistance or that they have that power, BM probably thought it be easier to nurture her own kid to follow her and develop the power.
I know it's just funny seeing him take my Robin hate seriously
 
What's interesting to me is that Big Mom had a poneglyph before Roger went to Raftel.

Why would Big Mom want to go to Raftel before Roger left One Piece? I thought the whole point of the Yonkou collecting Poneglyphs was to find One Piece, which only exists due to Roger.

I thought only Roger cared about the poneglyphs because he could read them. To be fair, we actually have no idea why Roger became interested in the Poneglyphs in the first place.

Presumably Raftel was already significant even prior to Roger going there. Probably something to do with the Void Century given that there are Poneglyphs pointing there.
 

Tizoc

Member
I can believe the fascination of her due to her troll face etc. at least.
...but she comes off as an expanded concept of Kuro's loyality to Kaya :V
 

LotusHD

Banned
I can believe the fascination of her due to her troll face etc. at least.
...but she comes off as an expanded concept of Kuro's loyality to Kaya :V

It's not just because of her troll face though, although that obviously made her more likable.
 
Luffy was more of a force than a protagonist. He still somewhat is, I don't really view him as the main character in most situations because he's rarely growing as a character. What Oda did was center each East Blue arc around an actual main character (Coby. Zoro, Usopp, Sanji, Nami) that had some kind of conflict in their life that could only be solved by uniting around the ideal that Luffy embodies. He's less of a protagonist and more of an idea that shapes the ideology of the world.

Hell, it even continued after that and is the basis for most arcs. The Strawhats are also now more of an idea than actual characters, and Oda tends to focus on some random new character.

This is a good point, and it's something I've noticed for awhile now.

I'm not sure whether or not you consider it a bad thing (I think the Strawhats are still characters, albeit a little static), but for me, it's a big part of why One Piece works.
 

Veelk

Banned
Luffy was more of a force than a protagonist. He still somewhat is, I don't really view him as the main character in most situations because he's rarely growing as a character. What Oda did was center each East Blue arc around an actual main character (Coby. Zoro, Usopp, Sanji, Nami) that had some kind of conflict in their life that could only be solved by uniting around the ideal that Luffy embodies. He's less of a protagonist and more of an idea that shapes the ideology of the world.

Hell, it even continued after that and is the basis for most arcs. The Strawhats are also now more of an idea than actual characters, and Oda tends to focus on some random new character.

This is a good point, and it's something I've noticed for awhile now.

I'm not sure whether or not you consider it a bad thing (I think the Strawhats are still characters, albeit a little static), but for me, it's a big part of why One Piece works.

You know, even though I don't enjoy most of it, it is legitimately interesting for me to see how vastly different opinions can get about stuff like this.

For me, this framework is not good for the story. We're following characters who aren't believable as people as they go around being one big Deus ex Machina for the islands they visit. I know that they often have reasons for why their presence coincides with whatever trouble is happening, but if this is a series of vignette's of the people inhabiting OP's world, then from their perspective the strawhats basically just show up like gods descending from heaven to make the evil dude go away in an unambiguously positive manner. I mean, I like superhero stories, so it's not like I am utterly against it as a concept of a savior heroes helping out where they go. But if I can't view the characters as actual people and they are indeed depicted as just an ideal, then it just feels like they function as an easy out for the people who need saving. Not to mention that the people who need saving are rarely interesting or endearing enough for me to want to see them saved. Of all the characters in the series, I think Vivi is the only victim I actually wanted the strawhats to help out. And am alone in that? Do. You guys go into every arc caring about the citizen of whatever, wanting them saved?

I really wish we had a story similar to one piece but with a more dynamic cast just so we could have a stronger point of comparison.
 

Ogodei

Member
This is a good point, and it's something I've noticed for awhile now.

I'm not sure whether or not you consider it a bad thing (I think the Strawhats are still characters, albeit a little static), but for me, it's a big part of why One Piece works.

You can't have a long-runner like this where the characters are constantly changing, mostly because eventually you do something irredeemably stupid with a character, and that character either has to be forgiven in a very paper-thin way, or you have to retcon it out of existence, like Marvel's problem with Spiderman growing too far away from his target audience, but their solution to that being the abominable One More Day.
 
You know, even though I don't enjoy most of it, it is legitimately interesting for me to see how vastly different opinions can get about stuff like this.

For me, this framework is not good for the story. We're following characters who aren't believable as people as they go around being one big Deus ex Machina for the islands they visit. I know that they often have reasons for why their presence coincides with whatever trouble is happening, but if this is a series of vignette's of the people inhabiting OP's world, then from their perspective the strawhats basically just show up like gods descending from heaven to make the evil dude go away in an unambiguously positive manner. I mean, I like superhero stories, so it's not like I am utterly against it as a concept of a savior heroes helping out where they go. But if I can't view the characters as actual people and they are indeed depicted as just an ideal, then it just feels like they function as an easy out for the people who need saving. Not to mention that the people who need saving are rarely interesting or endearing enough for me to want to see them saved. Of all the characters in the series, I think Vivi is the only victim I actually wanted the strawhats to help out. And am alone in that? Do. You guys go into every arc caring about the citizen of whatever, wanting them saved?

I really wish we had a story similar to one piece but with a more dynamic cast just so we could have a stronger point of comparison.

I suppose I just find the strawhats dynamic enough that I want to follow them and see what they do.
 
You can't have a long-runner like this where the characters are constantly changing, mostly because eventually you do something irredeemably stupid with a character, and that character either has to be forgiven in a very paper-thin way, or you have to retcon it out of existence, like Marvel's problem with Spiderman growing too far away from his target audience, but their solution to that being the abominable One More Day.

Peter Parker's basically a lighthearted Bruce Wayne now, so OMD is even more egregious in hindsight tbh

Kinda disappointed in Brooke, I actually thought he was gonna do something…useful.
 

Lunar15

Member
You know, even though I don't enjoy most of it, it is legitimately interesting for me to see how vastly different opinions can get about stuff like this.

For me, this framework is not good for the story. We're following characters who aren't believable as people as they go around being one big Deus ex Machina for the islands they visit. I know that they often have reasons for why their presence coincides with whatever trouble is happening, but if this is a series of vignette's of the people inhabiting OP's world, then from their perspective the strawhats basically just show up like gods descending from heaven to make the evil dude go away in an unambiguously positive manner. I mean, I like superhero stories, so it's not like I am utterly against it as a concept of a savior heroes helping out where they go. But if I can't view the characters as actual people and they are indeed depicted as just an ideal, then it just feels like they function as an easy out for the people who need saving. Not to mention that the people who need saving are rarely interesting or endearing enough for me to want to see them saved. Of all the characters in the series, I think Vivi is the only victim I actually wanted the strawhats to help out. And am alone in that? Do. You guys go into every arc caring about the citizen of whatever, wanting them saved?

I really wish we had a story similar to one piece but with a more dynamic cast just so we could have a stronger point of comparison.

The shtick worked for a long time, until it ran out of steam for me. I still enjoy it to see where it goes, but it overstayed its welcome. As individual stories, the recruitment of crew members are always strong. But after that there's rarely any development outside of an event like Luffy v. Usopp at Water 7. Once they hit the new world, I really stopped caring about most new characters they ran into.

The series peaked, for me, at Sabody. After that I think oda expanded everything way too much when he actually needed to focus in on his characters. That's the thing about making your "main character" an ideal instead of a protagonist, he becomes meaningless at a certain point, there's no uncertainty as to what he's going to do or what challenges he's going to overcome.

My Hero Academia has definitely become my manga of choice at this point, but I really did enjoy One Piece for a long time. I still do get enjoyment from seeing where the world goes, but the magic is basically gone.
 

Blackhead

Redarse
We're RIGHT IN THE MIDDLE of arc re-contextualizing and developing one of the core characters (eh Sanji) and you're complaining that they never change? WTF?! Why y'all keep falling for Veelk's concern trolling is beyond me.

p.s. I like MHA but it's only ~100 chapters. Naruto and even Bleach were still 'dynamic' at that point. Let's compare it to the long when it hits 500 chapters...
 

BatDan

Bane? Get them on board, I'll call it in.
We're RIGHT IN THE MIDDLE of arc re-contextualizing and developing one of the core characters (eh Sanji) and you're complaining that they never change? WTF?! Why y'all keep falling for Veelk's concern trolling is beyond me.

p.s. I like MHA but it's only ~100 chapters. Naruto and even Bleach were still 'dynamic' at that point. Let's compare it to the long when it hits 500 chapters...

No idea why they still fall for it. The man clearly talks out of his ass and is clearly a Spee D. Reader if he even reads it at all.
 
My Hero Academia has definitely become my manga of choice at this point, but I really did enjoy One Piece for a long time. I still do get enjoyment from seeing where the world goes, but the magic is basically gone.

After binge reading it, MHA is now what i look forward to every thursday. One Piece can still be fun but like you said the magic is gone.
 
For me, this framework is not good for the story. We're following characters who aren't believable as people as they go around being one big Deus ex Machina for the islands they visit.

Deus ex Machinas where?

I'm baffled why you want most of the cast to "think and act" like real-life people in a wacky adventure manga targeted towards teenage boys.
There are characters who are believable in the context of this world, but that's boring compared to the silly bubbly main cast.

I know that they often have reasons for why their presence coincides with whatever trouble is happening, but if this is a series of vignette's of the people inhabiting OP's world, then from their perspective the strawhats basically just show up like gods descending from heaven to make the evil dude go away in an unambiguously positive manner.

I mean, I like superhero stories, so it's not like I am utterly against it as a concept of a savior heroes helping out where they go. But if I can't view the characters as actual people and they are indeed depicted as just an ideal, then it just feels like they function as an easy out for the people who need saving.

You have an odd definition of a savior hero. The Straw Hats aren't saviors even though certain circumstances may have their actions overlap into that category. They're not out here to save the world.

This is a plot-driven story where the main heroes, who despite being unruly in their own right, are genuinely good people that will lend a hand to help the downtrodden or a friend in need, but aren't superheroes trying to save the world.

You mention Vivi in the bottom quote, but I think I should remind you that the crew initially helped out Vivi due to being a) in the wrong place at the wrong time b) Nami trying to exploit her pleas for money c) accidentally being targeted on Baroque Works' hit list. It wasn't until after befriending her that they decided to help her regardless.

Not to mention that the people who need saving are rarely interesting or endearing enough for me to want to see them saved.Of all the characters in the series, I think Vivi is the only victim I actually wanted the strawhats to help out. And am alone in that? Do. You guys go into every arc caring about the citizen of whatever, wanting them saved?

For the most part, yes. Because frequently, Oda makes an effort to let the reader get to know a new character and have the reader sympathize with their conflict and plight. Sometimes, having a crisis isn't even necessary to care for a character. Just being relatable and likable is enough.
It doesn't need to be complicated.
 
The shtick worked for a long time, until it ran out of steam for me. I still enjoy it to see where it goes, but it overstayed its welcome. As individual stories, the recruitment of crew members are always strong. But after that there's rarely any development outside of an event like Luffy v. Usopp at Water 7. Once they hit the new world, I really stopped caring about most new characters they ran into.

The series peaked, for me, at Sabody. After that I think oda expanded everything way too much when he actually needed to focus in on his characters. That's the thing about making your "main character" an ideal instead of a protagonist, he becomes meaningless at a certain point, there's no uncertainty as to what he's going to do or what challenges he's going to overcome.

My Hero Academia has definitely become my manga of choice at this point, but I really did enjoy One Piece for a long time. I still do get enjoyment from seeing where the world goes, but the magic is basically gone.

I feel a lot like this too, however the new world has given us so much epic moments and great fun that i'm still on board.

I guess it's just after so much time Oda's characters flaws have become more evident (nami and robin for example).
 
Im struggling with it more these days as he has been bombing us with new people and new powers relentlessly since the new world + meeting up.
It becomes abit overwhelming and nobody really develops into super memorable characters as its flies past (might be the speed at which you can knock through 15 pages).

Its weird, I give more a shit about Mr 2 and Crocodile coming back than anyone else at this point.

Just googling MHA, I mean im going to give it a read but I mean OP still has 725 odd chapters on this thing, how many did you get through of OP before you started to get worn down haha
 
I'm betting on Pudding having made a deal with Capone to betray Big Mom.

Capone doesn't seem like the sort of character who would backstab someone as powerful as Big Mom just because he wants to go Bonny and Clyde with Pudding. If he's doing something like that then he is making a deal with the marines or was working all along for someone like Kaidou or Blackbeard.
 

Veelk

Banned
Deus ex Machinas where?

I mean, from the perspectives of the citizens of the places they save. They're just these guys that come in and save everything. It would feel like a miracle to me if I was one of them.

I'm baffled why you want most of the cast to "think and act" like real-life people in a wacky adventure manga targeted towards teenage boys.
There are characters who are believable in the context of this world, but that's boring compared to the silly bubbly main cast.

*shrug*

You might have a point that they are believable for the world they're in...I certainly can name many characters that aren't truly realistic people or anything, but I believe in them for the wrold their in....but I just find the strawhats unbelievable in general. Maybe it's because the manga never got me to believe in the world their in on top of it's characters. And I tried, man. I tried for a long, long time to just get into it. But I just can't get past that threshold that would make be believe in the strawhats, so I can't empathize with them. And lack of empathy kills any story.

You have an odd definition of a savior hero. The Straw Hats aren't saviors even though certain circumstances may have their actions overlap into that category. They're not out here to save the world.

I don't feel that matters. Regardless of their intentions, every place they visit, they save it from some kind of tyrant or monster. Savior heroes is a function, not a mission statement.

For the most part, yes. Because frequently, Oda makes an effort to let the reader get to know a new character and have the reader sympathize with their conflict and plight. Sometimes, having a crisis isn't even necessary to care for a character. Just being relatable and likable is enough.
It doesn't need to be complicated.

Hm. Fair enough. I feel differently, but I'm glad you can get invested in these characters even if I can't.
 
Veelk, this is pretty much the same song-and-dance we've done before.

I can't tell you what you can and cannot read or like, but if it hasn't clicked with you what kind of story One Piece is, then it probably never will.

There are aspects about OP that you like, but I don't see the point in continuing a series you don't fully enjoy.
 

LotusHD

Banned
Meh, I pretty much hate-read Fairy Tail myself, so I can relate. Just wanna see how it ends at the end of the day.

After that last chapter, it once again dawns on me that I really need to stop reading Fairy Tail lol
 

Veelk

Banned
There are aspects about OP that you like, but I don't see the point in continuing a series you don't fully enjoy.

To get at the parts that I do, obviously. Which you already know since, like you said, we've done this song and dance many times before. The ratio of stuff I like vs I don't is low, but enough for me to keep going.

You might think it's not worth it, and if this were the only manga available for me to read, I'd probably be inclined to agree with you. But I'm reading My Hero Academia and now The Promised Neverland, both of which satisfy me very much along with this. Consuming two manga I like a lot takes the bad taste that OP may leave out of my mouth, so it's not a big deal for me to tolerate (even if I complain about it) to get to the good parts.

Besides, I actually like this arc...atleast relative to the other arcs. Big Mom has delivered thus far, I like the intellectual emphasis of this storyline, making fun of Sanji's L's and celebrating Pudding being a queen bitch has been a lot of fun, I am actually liking the design of a lot of the characters here...the only thing that's really underdelivered is the vinsmoke storyline. They're just so one note and stupid and feel like they primarily exist to show how Sanji is a shining beacon of goodness. And of course I have criticisms like Pudding's bond villain stupidity thing going on. But I have more positive things to say about this arc than most others. And I'm doing it while still having no empathy for the victim in question (Sanji). I doubt that's the case with you or others, but it's what I get out of the arc.

Meh, I pretty much hate-read Fairy Tail myself, so I can relate. Just wanna see how it ends at the end of the day.
See?! I'm not the only crazy person who does this to themselves. And everything I hear tells me fairy tale is worse than OP. OP at least has some redeeming value. I've never heard anything good about FT that wasn't from DTL's mouth of madness.
 
Just wanna see how it ends at the end of the day.

I tell myself this, too, but I don't even know with that series :/ It's just bad on so many levels...

Think I get more entertained by the leaps of logic taken to make sure that a nipple never, ever gets shown than anything else that series has to offer.
 

RalchAC

Member
I tell myself this, too, but I don't even know with that series :/ It's just bad on so many levels...

Think I get more entertained by the leaps of logic taken to make sure that a nipple never, ever gets shown than anything else that series has to offer.

Just wanted to tell you a story. There was a few years ago a young and naiver version of me. He hated how Naruto had turned out. He wanted to drop it. But every time he was on the verge of not reading the weekly chapter, he told to himself: "dude, they're fighting Obito, it's the final fight, I give it a year or less".

4 years later Naruto ended. Kinda.

TL;DR: Be strong. The shonen Stockholm syndrome is real. Drop a series if you think it's awful. Don't be young and naive RalchAC.
 

NSESN

Member
I almost dropped Naruto, don't because I hated, but because the final arc was too long and disappointing. But in the end i never dropped because it was my first manga and it would be terrible not knowing how it ends. I dropped the Anime tho.
It isone of te great things about OP imo, if you liked it at the start you robabbly will like it now because it is so consistent. It's really rare to have a bad chapter in OP.
 

Principate

Saint Titanfall
To get at the parts that I do, obviously. Which you already know since, like you said, we've done this song and dance many times before. The ratio of stuff I like vs I don't is low, but enough for me to keep going.

You might think it's not worth it, and if this were the only manga available for me to read, I'd probably be inclined to agree with you. But I'm reading My Hero Academia and now The Promised Neverland, both of which satisfy me very much along with this. Consuming two manga I like a lot takes the bad taste that OP may leave out of my mouth, so it's not a big deal for me to tolerate (even if I complain about it) to get to the good parts.

Besides, I actually like this arc...atleast relative to the other arcs. Big Mom has delivered thus far, I like the intellectual emphasis of this storyline, making fun of Sanji's L's and celebrating Pudding being a queen bitch has been a lot of fun, I am actually liking the design of a lot of the characters here...the only thing that's really underdelivered is the vinsmoke storyline. They're just so one note and stupid and feel like they primarily exist to show how Sanji is a shining beacon of goodness. And of course I have criticisms like Pudding's bond villain stupidity thing going on. But I have more positive things to say about this arc than most others. And I'm doing it while still having no empathy for the victim in question (Sanji). I doubt that's the case with you or others, but it's what I get out of the arc.


See?! I'm not the only crazy person who does this to themselves. And everything I hear tells me fairy tale is worse than OP. OP at least has some redeeming value. I've never heard anything good about FT that wasn't from DTL's mouth of madness.

There's a vast difference in spending a minute reading a chapter per week and spending a substantial amount of time in the fairy tail communty threads/forums talking about said manga. One is a sunk cost time waister. The other is an obsession.
 

LotusHD

Banned
Just wanted to tell you a story. There was a few years ago a young and naiver version of me. He hated how Naruto had turned out. He wanted to drop it. But every time he was on the verge of not reading the weekly chapter, he told to himself: "dude, they're fighting Obito, it's the final fight, I give it a year or less".

4 years later Naruto ended. Kinda.

TL;DR: Be strong. The shonen Stockholm syndrome is real. Drop a series if you think it's awful. Don't be young and naive RalchAC.

I do drop stuff more and more, just not everything. Dropped Shokugeki for example (Only interesting to me as an anime). Hell, this post inspires me to drop Tokyo Ghoul: Re right now. I hate that now as well.

With FT though, I shall march on for some God forsaken reason.

It is one of te great things about OP imo, if you liked it at the start you robabbly will like it now because it is so consistent. It's really rare to have a bad chapter in OP.

Agreed, I rarely ever think a OP chapter is utter shit. At best, it's just feels slow or too short, usually because it's getting ready to set up something amazing.
 

SolVanderlyn

Thanos acquires the fully powered Infinity Gauntlet in The Avengers: Infinity War, but loses when all the superheroes team up together to stop him.
I advise anyone saying the magic is gone to read Fishman Island in color, and binge watch Punk Hazard and Dressrosa via One Pace.

The New World arcs are SO much better when seen all at once.
 

BatDan

Bane? Get them on board, I'll call it in.
I advise anyone saying the magic is gone to read Fishman Island in color, and binge watch Punk Hazard and Dressrosa via One Pace.

The New World arcs are SO much better when seen all at once.

This.

People claim Arlong Park and Alabasta are magical because by the time they started reading One Piece, they've been complete for years and were able to binge them.

Every arc is better when read all at once.
Doesn't only apply to One Piece. Over at Hunter x Hunter, the Chimera Ant arc took 7 years to finish due to constant hiatuses. Because of that, people didn't like the arc. But thanks to the 2011 anime and people re-reading it in one go, the arc is now one of the most beloved in all of manga.
 
What's interesting to me is that Big Mom had a poneglyph before Roger went to Raftel.

Why would Big Mom want to go to Raftel before Roger left One Piece? I thought the whole point of the Yonkou collecting Poneglyphs was to find One Piece, which only exists due to Roger.

I thought only Roger cared about the poneglyphs because he could read them. To be fair, we actually have no idea why Roger became interested in the Poneglyphs in the first place.

I just assumed it's because Big Mom likes to collect a little bit of everything.
 

Veelk

Banned
There's a vast difference in spending a minute reading a chapter per week and spending a substantial amount of time in the fairy tail communty threads/forums talking about said manga. One is a sunk cost time waister. The other is an obsession.

Well, yeah, but that's just me though. As long as something is on my mind, I talk about it at lengths. If I don't talk other stuff on such a consistent, it's mostly because either there isn't a community for it, or that there isn't new content to speak about it. Whenever I finish a game or a movie or show, or whatever, you can find me making long ass LTTP. Once that wears off though, it's just gone until the next new thing comes out, or the discussion dies down. One Piece just happens to have a steady stream of content AND a community that constantly discusses stuff.

Also, I'm just better at talking about stuff in terms of criticism rather than praise and in terms of argument instead of agreement. I could would probably happily argue with anyone over MHA with the same vigor, but everyone seems to agree on everything in the community thread: That MHA is awesome, so I have less stuff to contend about. But even then, I've dropped a few Veelk bombs in there.
 

NSESN

Member
MHA isn't very like OP to begin with. It is much more like a better Naruto imo.
But now let's stop talking about MHA before Blackleg diable jambes everyone here.
 

Principate

Saint Titanfall
MHA isn't very like OP to begin with. It is much more like a better Naruto imo.
But now let's stop talking about MHA before Blackleg diable jambes everyone here.

TBF their are very, very few manga's that are actually like One Piece that's part of it's appeal and success. It's an incredibly difficult manga to reproduce.
 

Jay RaR

Member
Meh, I pretty much hate-read Fairy Tail myself, so I can relate. Just wanna see how it ends at the end of the day.

I'm with you there too. But at the same time I dropped off Naruto, Bleach, Magi, D Grayman and several others so my priorities are strange lol.
 
Just wanted to tell you a story. There was a few years ago a young and naiver version of me. He hated how Naruto had turned out. He wanted to drop it. But every time he was on the verge of not reading the weekly chapter, he told to himself: "dude, they're fighting Obito, it's the final fight, I give it a year or less".

4 years later Naruto ended. Kinda.

TL;DR: Be strong. The shonen Stockholm syndrome is real. Drop a series if you think it's awful. Don't be young and naive RalchAC.

Lol, I was with you there, Ralch :) a friend of mine and I would chat after each Naruto chapter came out, and we mostly just said "What the hell happened?" and "Holy shit that was impossible to read" The only time it was exciting was when Gai opened up all his gates, or whatever it was.

You're right though about giving up FT once and for all. It's just that I only have OP to read on the regular, and things like MHA don't interest me in the slightest
 
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