Way ahead of you, though that one in particular didn't tell me anything I didn't already know other than the numbers. I'm hoping the next video goes into more depth.
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One Piece Manga |OT2| Four Emperors, One King, All Blue
- Thread starter Cloud Strife
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Way ahead of you, though that one in particular didn't tell me anything I didn't already know other than the numbers. I'm hoping the next video goes into more depth.
Remember that the strawhats basically skipped a step learning about the road ponyglyphs. You're supposed to get to the end of the grand line, find a tantalizing clue about what is actually at the end of the line, and search for the Road Ponyglyphs to find the way to get there.
Meaning that there is something at the regular terminus of the Grand Line to make these powerful people desperate enough to go searching for these stones.
Meaning that there is something at the regular terminus of the Grand Line to make these powerful people desperate enough to go searching for these stones.
oreomunsta
Banned
Last stop before One Piece has to be Mariejois. It'd fit so perfectly
Imperial Bishop
Banned
Eh. Still worth the watch for SEW's analysis.
They're gonna make a U-turn for Mariejois for what reason?
oreomunsta
Banned
Has it been stated that the path to Raftel is a linear one?
MJ would make sense as the last stop before Raftel from a WG perspective. It's the last line of defense for them to stop any new and coming Pirate King
MJ is right above Fishman Island, which is right near the beginning of the Red Line, because MJ offers the only other way to get to the NW.
Imperial Bishop
Banned
It's been established that it's a linear path to the end of the Grand Line. Logically, Raftel is beyond that point hidden somewhere.
It's probable that if they did go there, it would be after the secret of the world is revealed.
oreomunsta
Banned
Ah, okay. Somehow skipped over that part, so I'll have to go back and re-read Fishman arc someday
That would have some pretty cool implications, if it did happen!
Sibersk Esto
Banned
Super Eyepatch Wolf does good work. I recommend his videos to anyone who's expressed interest in Jojo or HxH.
Well like you said, it's not your average MHA thread.
We really do talk about it too much sometimes lol
I've been catching up with MHA lately getting past the License Exams and enjoying it...but after seeing Deku's encounter with the slime girl...come on Veelk. That's WAY more saucy and fanservicey than anything in One Piece. That's just straight up nudity without actually seeing anything. Not buying MHA as being this safehaven for female characters to not getting sexually exploited.
Midorya developing a harem isn't necessarily the best thing for depicting women either.
Midorya developing a harem isn't necessarily the best thing for depicting women either.
While that's not a part I liked, it's more complicated than that.
My criticism of One Piece's fanservice isn't a blanket statement that fanservice should never, ever, ever, ever happen. The problem with fanservice is that it's ubiquitous to women in one piece. Every single woman, or nearly so, has such a body that the eye is drawn to their ginormous breasts even when wearing modest clothing, and a lot of the time it's not even immodest. Which would be bad enough if not for the fact that women got such few representation in the world as forces of power and agency when the story and most of the world revolves around a persons ability to fight.
This is one of Nami's more modest outfits, and it's still something I feel I'd see right before watching a weird folksy german porno between the tiny skirt and the dress corset perking up her breasts which are half exposed from the blouse providing ample amount of cleavage to. The women of OP wear this kind of shit all the time and OP has multiple scenes of fanservice that have literally no purpose except for tittulation. If this was character based, like if Nami was looking to have sex with people, I wouldn't mind it half as much. Or, I'd go with the fact that maybe she just likes wearing sexy outfits, which IS the case....But this is the style that all women wear, from rebecca's metal bikini and Viola's tight dress that barely contain her boobs, to a gigantic breasted dog mink that took Nami's cloths and stuck her in a ridiculously low cut dress, to everything that Robin wears. None of these or most other women are said to enjoy wearing provocative clothing like Nami, so why do they all do it? This particular arc is slighty (slightly) better than the past few others, but even now it's not entirely gone, but we still have characters like Smoothie and Reiju (in her vinsmoke suit). The only women the manga doesn't seem interested in giving fanservice scenes is women it doesn't consider attractive, like big mom. But otherwise, it feels like every woman, no matter what, is sexualized.
That's the problem here. Being sexualized is an (attractive) woman thing. And it's a thing that every female character with almost no exception has a universal body template of having ridiculous breasts with an hourglass figure in a world that seems unable to find cloths that don't emphasize those things, and the only question is the degree to which that outfit is skin revealing in addition to being form fitting.
In comparison, take Momo for example. She's probably the most idealized beauty of the class. You have her hero outfit, sure, which shows a lot of skin. But do we see her like that all the time? Or even most? No, usually she's wearing a normal school uniform or her training clothes, and despite having a much more developed body than the other girls, doesn't look that different from the other girls. More than that, her attitude toward that the subject is explored, in that she doesn't care about being exposed during battle (because she needs her skin to be free to use her powers) and it's a matter of life or death (or a simulation of) but she's shy about it in normal circumstances. More than that, despite having an ideal body, she's got flaws. For example, in one cover, it's revealed that she actually has fat on her body. Normal, realistic amounts of fat, both make sense with her power using her lipids, but they do that without marring the fact that she's got an ideal figure or that she's basically considered the class beauty.
So, with Momo, you have the most idealized and fanservicey character, but she only shows her for the most part only in times where it's practical to do so, yet even her otherwise idealized design having flaws that make her feel like a genuine human being who happens to be beautiful rather while nearly all women of OP have an impossibly idealized body design that's emphasized at nearly every possible convenience by the clothing they wear, espeically Nami who seems to be just be Oda's fantasy girl realized.
Meanwhile, even if you think I'm making excuses for Momo and just want to come down on her for being a well endowed girl with a revealing outfit, then consider that Momo is basically the only one who is like this of the class. Jirou is flat as a board, somewhat insecure about it, and wears clothes that are completely normal. Ochako has more normal figure, but a spaceman outfit that doesn't emphasize it at all. Asui acutallly is rather well endowed and her outfit is actually a wetsuit (or looks like one), yet she's designed such that eyes are drawn to her eyes, face, tongue and large hands. Invisible girl is invisible. The only one that even comes close about it is Mina, who wears a unitard that emphasizes her cleveage, but that's it (and she has her own personality to consider when dealing with that). And Kendou wears a chinese dress for a costume, who is the only halfway major character from another class.
With MHA, there is fanservice outfits, sure but it's not all encompassing to every female character there is and it's usually tries to be appropriate to the situation. And, for added bonus, it's not just women. Kirishima looks like he just stepped out of some kind of BDSM sex shop with his costume. That's all I need to be happy! Just some small measure of amount of sensibility to how one depicts women. So you have them with different body types, which are also with flaws, governed by characters with different personalities, with the knowledge that there's no harm in letting men get in on the fan service action as well.
Now, to address your specific problems with Camie, when I read that, I was thinking the exact same thing. Alarm bells were going off in my head, making me think "Dammit, Horikoshi, why, you were doing so well." But then it's revealed that it's actually Toga, who has specifically displayed an aggressive and unhealthy view of sexuality. Now, you can definitely argue that it's somewhat problematic and stereotypical to make the only female bad guy the one who is sexually aggressive, and I have said so in the thread myself...but it transforms Camie being naked into foreshadowing because Toga using sexuality to confuse and mess with her opponents is something she first established back when she did this to Ochako and Momo (iirc). It's not just a plot foreshadowing, if I had made the connection given the clues that Toga said about how Ochako wants to transform into Deku and how she gets that and connected it with the actions "Camie" was taking, I might have guessed the twist because the fanservice is character based.
My Hero Academia isn't perfect, but I don't expect perfection. It's a fine line to walk to depicting a sexualized representation of a person, while not objectifying them, while maintaining the idea that sexuality is a human experience and that bodies are, ultimately, objects. The actual problem with obsessive fanservice is not some puritanical aversion to the female body, but that it becomes dehumanizing. Nami's primary role in the story becomes not "Navigator" or even "Clever, compassionate woman and friend to Luffy" but "Boobs that follow the Strawhats around", because every woman on every occasion wears this shit but not all of them are on the crew. My Hero Academia avoids this by making it's fanservice mostly character based. You can find exceptions, sure, you can argue that it's still overemphasized, but as long as it's character based, then it's about the woman, not the woman's body.
Eh, Ochako is mainly the one that's actually falling in love. Toga has shown an attaction, but she seems to do that to most people. Who else has shown attraction to Deku, because I don't remember?
Either way, they're teenagers who are going into adulthood. Showing an attraction to the other sex is normal and I prefer it to the wierd interactions of the strawhats with how they flat out ignore the barely dressed women and seem to have no interest in either romance or sex. Like, I don't feel Sanji is even an exception. He's shown going crazy around women a lot, but it's not like he ever seems to actually do anything with them, even the well endowed mermaids who were into it. Really, Nami dressing the way she does would probably make more sense if she was actually interested in sex with anyone, and if she were just wearing that to attract guys, then atleast that'd be a character based reason for it. Instead, it just emphasizes how much Nami is only dressed like that just to look attractive to us, the audience.
Edit: Also, while searching for stuff, I found this tumblr post:
http://villainousquirkheroicintent....53370/alright-before-you-all-mark-this-off-as
In comparison, how many One Piece fanservice panels depict women's personhoods? What the fuck was revealed about Nami and Robin as Momonosuke motorboated their breasts in that wierd as fuck bath scene? The only thing I can imagine is maybe Nami showing off her body to the strawhats and king in Alabasta, but that's all. I didn't catch everything this person did, but it is where I learned that Jirou is probably the most self concious about her body when I read it, and that was the most fanservice laden scene before the Camie/Toga stuff.
"Let me write 8 paragraphs telling you why you're wrong and I'm right and reeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee"
And I like fit girls in bikini's and jeans. It's a sexy look and I'm a straight guy, so it's attractive to me. No one is saying you shouldn't like anything.
How much people like any particular outfit, or even all the outfits isn't the point. It's how sexualized they are consistnetly over time with little context justifying it. Hopefully that's succinct enough for jackass up there.
Blackleg-sanji1
Banned
Y'all have fun dude I'm just done. Was already unsubscribed but man I'm out. May you all find your all blues
Honestly, Nami's post 3D2Y outfit is pretty tacky. Everything else is fine, whatever, fashion, but that outfit just evokes a what from me.
Man Veelk I don't even give a fuck. I just saw that picture of Nami and thought "Yep that is a cute outfit this time" and nothing more. I didn't even read your post cause I knew what it would be about.I seriously don't give a fuck and Nami is overall (even though she is damsel in distress in two movies or more) a very strong independed woman in manga. Hopefuly we get more Nami in bikini in the next arc so that you can analyse that even more lol
I wish people wouldn't jump on me like I'm just starting shit about it when I was replying to another poster that specifically addressed me to talk about fanservice in comparison to MHA. I mean, what was I supposed to do? And if you replied to my post, it's hard for me to know that you are only replying to the picture and not the points I'm making.
But otherwise, eh, fine, fair enough. As I said, there's nothing wrong with enjoying what you enjoy. I'm just saying there is stuff to talk about it's depiction aside from whether it's visually pleasing to you personally.
Nah Usopp and Robin already do stuff like that.
I knew you'd shoot this down lol
Usopp did stuff too before Franky showed him how it's done =P
I knew you'd shoot this down lol
Usopp did stuff too before Franky showed him how it's done =P
I forgot to include luffy too whom the characters he drew actually appeared in the story on being big.
Yes and it was made a point at W7 and a bit in Skypiea that while good skills weren't up to task and that they need someone.
I'd say this outfit is one of my "favorite" ones, due to the fact that the corset makes Nami's body to look almost... Normal?
But yeah. Outfits are sexualized. A lot more for women than men, but you see a bit of the later, I'd say. Law is a fan favorite and you have him running around showing his glorious abs everywhere. Characters like Usopp or Luff are much more fit than before. And there probably is something about Zoro I'm missing.
Like, we talk about how absurd women are. But I'd say in general "strong men bodies" are idealised too. It could be seen as a power fantasy, but they don't look how a strong why would look. They look like a guy who works out 3 hours a day at a gym.
The big problem for me, is not as much the clothes, or designs, but the actual fan service, which is much more tame in the manga than in the anime. At some point I've mostly accepted that this is just Oda's idealised version of the human body. But man. The anime is... Ugh.
(And I already voiced my concerns about how I think it's not morally good to use character that in some scenes seem anorexic, but that's not what's being brought up)
Johnlenham
Member
offtopic-ish abit but man im like 7 chapters in to MHA and its bloody awful. Its so painfully generic so far Im averaging about 5 eye rolls a chapter at this point.
It's nothing new but the execution is very well done imo.
SolVanderlyn
Thanos acquires the fully powered Infinity Gauntlet in The Avengers: Infinity War, but loses when all the superheroes team up together to stop him.
GAF's One Piece thread is now on its own Sanji retrieval arc
I feel bad for laughing at this lol
The Blackleg retrieval arc will probably conclude with him coming back once Sanji inevitably gets his comeuppance.
Principate
Saint Titanfall
You do realise succintness is a positive trait in writing not a negative one. You probably wonder why no-one responded to your wall of text that says the same old stuff you've said a thousand times before.
I bet if your a manga author you'd treat it like a LN and stuff every panel with more than the amount of text you can feasible get away with. Jesus Christ.
No, I'm not wondering about lack of replies. I'm just kind of unimpressed with the ones present. Like I said, I was responding to something another poster specifically asked to address. I believe the topic in question is a complex and often misunderstood one, hence my thoroughness, but I wasn't intending to start another conversation about it.
Beyond that, my indifference to your problems about post length is so dense you could make bricks out of it.
Principate
Saint Titanfall
If you want serious replies put forward your argument more succiently. The number of paragraphs yours using to portray concepts and ideas you've talked about is obscene. Quality of arguments my ass. Quality isn't message by putting as many words on a page as possible. That's why word limits exist in accademic grading
Where the fuck is your executive summary of your arguments.
Finally caught up after about since they revealed the ninja. This arc has been pretty great, Luffy can't just punch his way out of this one methinks.
But one thing that's been on my mind
But one thing that's been on my mind
Pudding obviously messed with Reijus memories to think she gave sanji fake bracelets right?
Wow never thought about that
But i don't think so, i think she really gave him fake ones
That would legit be amazing if so.
Nah, there's no way.
It's not linear, but the start and finish are set in stone.
Typically the path has been going forward and not backward.
igordennis
Member
Lol. Honestly, this is pathetic. Fellow gaf poster thinks he has a "gotcha" moment against MHA just because Veelk has said he likes that series a lot more than OP. That poster probably knew these 2 things:
1. Veelk likes MHA more than OP
2. Veelk writes long posts because thats just the way he argues. I would even say yes he can be succinct but if you keep engaging him on complex matters such as this he will always try to be a thorough as possible because his arguments are actually sound ones, and who knows, someone's mind could actually be changed by reading them if said mind is open
Knowing this, the only conclusion would be him writing a long ass post. If he didnt respond, the rest of the thread would be like "omg he got you there veelk, MHA is not the perfect shining light of anime you've said it was (which he hasn't), look, it also has fan service just as OP does".
And of course he does answer the way you'd expect him to because he has given this more thought than "omg Nami is cute. But wait, that girl on MHA is way more cute" ¯\_(ツ
_/¯So really, i'd think at this point the best course of action would be either actually engage him or just ignore him. A frightening idea i know, instead of just posting how much you are annoyed at him (which blackleg does seems to excel at).
I disagree with the Big One on a lot of things, but he's atleast never given me any reason to believe he isn't arguing from a position of intellectual honesty. I don't think he was trying to get me in a gotcha moment, but he wanted to ask about what he saw as an inconsistency in my stance. He wasn't wrong to ask about it, though yeah, I doubt that he didn't expect me to write a long ass post about it.
Principate, on the other hand, is trying to 'help' me by trying to hold my writing to academic standards on a public forum so that I can get more replies (as if I don't get plenty of people who give me serious replies all the time), while ignoring that I've stated multiple times that I was just answering a question rather than looking for responses. It's nothing but pure, concentrated whining with zero substance to it.
And as far as me condensing my posts...eh, maybe that's not untrue. But at the same time, there are a lot worse forum crimes than lengthy posts. Worst case scenerio, when I find myself not wanting to read a long post, I either just put it away for when I do, or else I just skim it.
I would give anything for this.
Principate, on the other hand, is trying to 'help' me by trying to hold my writing to academic standards on a public forum so that I can get more replies (as if I don't get plenty of people who give me serious replies all the time), while ignoring that I've stated multiple times that I was just answering a question rather than looking for responses. It's nothing but pure, concentrated whining with zero substance to it.
And as far as me condensing my posts...eh, maybe that's not untrue. But at the same time, there are a lot worse forum crimes than lengthy posts. Worst case scenerio, when I find myself not wanting to read a long post, I either just put it away for when I do, or else I just skim it.
I would give anything for this.
I'll try separating this from the other part of this post. Check this out: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kBaAK8mMprU
If One Piece showcases Sanji doing anything to the mermaids that were into his flirting it wouldn't be in Weekly Shonen Jump.
The point of those scenes was to establish that Momnosuke isn't a normal child and has adult tastes as a gag. There's also hints of Momnosuke knowing Roger as well, which is another factor in the unusual child aspect of him. Nami and Robin are just accessories to that gag and aren't really meant to highlight them in particular. All Strawhats have gags and act as accessories to gags.
Veelk you're basing this entire idea that characters in One Piece don't want to have sex, despite the series never doing anything to suggest this is the case. Not only have male characters displayed sexual desire but female characters clearly do as well. There's a reason why Oda had to regulate Viola and Doffy's previous relationship to SBS-only material. You're reading a manga where Oda really cannot go much farther than depicting women in scantily clad garb when trying to depict them as sexual being unless he wants to get taken out of WSJ. He's already stated romance isn't going to be a part of One Piece (well...despite the recent arc going against that idea), but Oda literally cannot go much farther with the sexuality in One Piece than he already has.
One Piece characters are teenagers/young adults as well, so I don't see how they're an exception here. I guess you excuse MHA for some reason.
If One Piece showcases Sanji doing anything to the mermaids that were into his flirting it wouldn't be in Weekly Shonen Jump.
The point of those scenes was to establish that Momnosuke isn't a normal child and has adult tastes as a gag. There's also hints of Momnosuke knowing Roger as well, which is another factor in the unusual child aspect of him. Nami and Robin are just accessories to that gag and aren't really meant to highlight them in particular. All Strawhats have gags and act as accessories to gags.
VGChampion
Member
I assumed she just told Sanji they were fake so he wouldn't care about doing what he needs to do.
This excuse has been brought up many times before, and I simply do not buy it.
You're telling me that WSJ is going to take the most commercially and criticially successful manga of all time out of their selection because Oda wants to do some unconventional storytelling (something that could be ascribed to a lot of OP)? The manga that brings them in millions a year like clockwork. No. It's hard to believe that Oda is held on any level to the same standards a typical mangaka is, but even doing that to a typically successful mangaka is insane. There's no way Oda doesn't have Carte Blanche to do whatever he wants,. Or, even if he somehow doesn't, lets think this through for a minute. WSJ kicks him out of their selection. So what? What is the worst that could happen here, seriously? He takes his stupidly successful manga and completes it in another magazine? Who in all the fuck is going to reject One Piece?
No. Whatever reason Oda does what he does, it's hard to believe it's under editorial mandate. Not to say that Oda doesn't listen to his editors if they advise him, but you're suggesting Oda's not doing this because he isn't allowed and he is forced to do otherwise, and I just don't buy that.
Furthermore, what proof do we have of this? I don't mean "Well, Look at how even Toriyama wanted to do the androids, but one call from his editor and..." No, that just means he trusted his editor enough to follow his advice, especially since he was his former editor not his current one. You're going on the assumption that Oda wants to depict these things, but is blocked by the heads of WSJ, and you're not the only one. Several people seem to take this as gospel truth. And I want tangible evidence of this, like an interview with Oda saying such, not just speculation.
And besides, I'm not saying 'show explicit sexual content', I'm saying 'show characters interested in relationships'.
No, you misunderstand. When I say their teenagers, what I mean is they're awkward and have no idea what the fuck their doing. They kind of pussyfoot around and uncertain how to deal with their feelings. Mineta is depraved about it and turns people off of it, while there are a few others that go along with his antics to a lesser degree, but most show they are affected by women's bodies but try to be respectful about it like Todoroki, or just the idea that they can get somewhat close to women like when Sugar bakes cake and women pick him as the favorite. It's light stuff, somewhat like OP in that regard, but then when it comes to acting on genuine feelings, few people do anything not because they lack interest, but they are uncertain how to go about it. Ochako and Deku have no idea how to act toward one another besides being friends. They're attracted to each other, and like each other, but are not sure how to express those feelings and are even conflicted about even having them. That's being a teenager.
Sanji is a teenager age wise, but doesn't have this problem (nor does anyone else in the manga). He's not shy and he has no confusion about the feelings he has toward women, and expresses these feelings without restraint at any given opportunity. So, when he encounters mermaids who are equally open and upfront about being into him, the fact that he and them don't really do anything, that he just sits there drooling, that's not a normal human reaction. You get someone that eager and willing and you get women who are also eager and willing, that usually goes somewhere. And for the record, I'm not saying that I want anything explicit shown. Obviously. It's a kids manga and the last thing I ever want to see is Sanji's nude body thrusting and making an o face. But you can work with implications or even just outright saying "Sanji's over there making out with the mermaids" without actually showing it.
And when you put Sanji aside, the fact that their teenagers makes the way the characters act more jarring. Like, sometimes it's acknowledged that what Nami is wearing is provocative as hell, but most of the time, it's flat out ignored. Lets say that Luffy is just straight up asexual. Okay, but Usopp has been shown to have an attraction to women/nami. But nearly every guy thinks Nami's (and most women's, since it's hardly only Nami dressing like this) outfit is barely worth a second glance most of the time. I'm not saying everyone should act like a pervert degenerate or something, but teenage boys tend to be highly distracted by attractive women wearing very little. Hell, men in general tend to be highly distracted by attractive women wearing very little. But no one seems to actually want to get into a relationship with Nami and Nami doesn't seem to want to get in a relationship with anyone else, and her suit doesn't really offer any tactical advantage, so she's just wearing this outfit that barely shows off any skin around men who acknowledge she's ridiculously gorgeous but don't have any interest in actually doing anything with her, be that relational or sexual.
For me, that's pretty thin. But even if we take this perspective on the event, this does not meet the standard that MHA set. I said the fanservice is at it's best/most acceptable when it's character based. You're arguing that it's gag based, and objectifying Nami and Robin's bodies and basically making them look like complete idiots or creeps for the sake of a gag is not good storytelling for me.
I'm pretty sure I said something similar on here when that chapter was released too. Gags that work with the characters they depict enhance the story, but if they have to break character/world rules to do it, then there's cohesion lost, and that's just not worth it for a joke.
Now watch as Toei extends that to like 8 minutes.
Sibersk Esto
Banned
If Oda feels romantic relationships would work for his story or characters, then he would include it, as he has in flashbacks, jokes and with side characters. As it stands, the story of One Piece is so packed with things for his main characters to do that focusing on that aspect of the story would just waste time.
I'm pretty sure Brooke is able to store stuff inside his head. It was shown in his first appearance. That's why this was emphasised so much during the last chapter: "There nothing in his clothes and there is nothing in his cylinder neither. He didn't steal a thing. Sorry for suspecting you. Then I guess everything is ok, Soul King!"
EDIT: Seems like I'm a bit late, others have already mentioned this.
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