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[Ray Down]

If Oda feels romantic relationships would work for his story or characters, then he would include it, as he has in flashbacks, jokes and with side characters. As it stands, the story of One Piece is so packed with things for his main characters to do that focusing on that aspect of the story would just waste time.

That and if he does it he should just go the Toriyama route.

 

[Man God]

Baby 5 found true love.

 

[Imperial Bishop]

I'll try separating this from the other part of this post. Check this out: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kBaAK8mMprU

This is really well done. Pudding sounds similar to Harley Quinn, which is fucking perfect.

 

[KuwabaraTheMan]

I'll try separating this from the other part of this post. Check this out: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kBaAK8mMprU

That is just perfect.

 

[Ray Down]

 

[LotusHD]

I'll try separating this from the other part of this post. Check this out: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kBaAK8mMprU

Holy shit, someone hire her for the dub lmao

 

[Ray Down]

Get Rachael Lillis.

 

[Principate]

This excuse has been brought up many times before, and I simply do not buy it.

You're telling me that WSJ is going to take the most commercially and criticially successful manga of all time out of their selection because Oda wants to do some unconventional storytelling (something that could be ascribed to a lot of OP)? The manga that brings them in millions a year like clockwork. No. It's hard to believe that Oda is held on any level to the same standards a typical mangaka is, but even doing that to a typically successful mangaka is insane. There's no way Oda doesn't have Carte Blanche to do whatever he wants,. Or, even if he somehow doesn't, lets think this through for a minute. WSJ kicks him out of their selection. So what? What is the worst that could happen here, seriously? He takes his stupidly successful manga and completes it in another magazine? Who in all the fuck is going to reject One Piece?

No. Whatever reason Oda does what he does, it's hard to believe it's under editorial mandate. Not to say that Oda doesn't listen to his editors if they advise him, but you're suggesting Oda's not doing this because he isn't allowed and he is forced to do otherwise, and I just don't buy that.

Furthermore, what proof do we have of this? I don't mean "Well, Look at how even Toriyama wanted to do the androids, but one call from his editor and..." No, that just means he trusted his editor enough to follow his advice, especially since he was his former editor not his current one. You're going on the assumption that Oda wants to depict these things, but is blocked by the heads of WSJ, and you're not the only one. Several people seem to take this as gospel truth. And I want tangible evidence of this, like an interview with Oda saying such, not just speculation.

And besides, I'm not saying 'show explicit sexual content', I'm saying 'show characters interested in relationships'.



No, you misunderstand. When I say their teenagers, what I mean is they're awkward and have no idea what the fuck their doing. They kind of pussyfoot around and uncertain how to deal with their feelings. Mineta is depraved about it and turns people off of it, while there are a few others that go along with his antics to a lesser degree, but most show they are affected by women's bodies but try to be respectful about it like Todoroki, or just the idea that they can get somewhat close to women like when Sugar bakes cake and women pick him as the favorite. It's light stuff, somewhat like OP in that regard, but then when it comes to acting on genuine feelings, few people do anything not because they lack interest, but they are uncertain how to go about it. Ochako and Deku have no idea how to act toward one another besides being friends. They're attracted to each other, and like each other, but are not sure how to express those feelings and are even conflicted about even having them. That's being a teenager.

Sanji is a teenager age wise, but doesn't have this problem (nor does anyone else in the manga). He's not shy and he has no confusion about the feelings he has toward women, and expresses these feelings without restraint at any given opportunity. So, when he encounters mermaids who are equally open and upfront about being into him, the fact that he and them don't really do anything, that he just sits there drooling, that's not a normal human reaction. You get someone that eager and willing and you get women who are also eager and willing, that usually goes somewhere. And for the record, I'm not saying that I want anything explicit shown. Obviously. It's a kids manga and the last thing I ever want to see is Sanji's nude body thrusting and making an o face. But you can work with implications or even just outright saying "Sanji's over there making out with the mermaids" without actually showing it.

And when you put Sanji aside, the fact that their teenagers makes the way the characters act more jarring. Like, sometimes it's acknowledged that what Nami is wearing is provocative as hell, but most of the time, it's flat out ignored. Lets say that Luffy is just straight up asexual. Okay, but Usopp has been shown to have an attraction to women/nami. But nearly every guy thinks Nami's (and most women's, since it's hardly only Nami dressing like this) outfit is barely worth a second glance most of the time. I'm not saying everyone should act like a pervert degenerate or something, but teenage boys tend to be highly distracted by attractive women wearing very little. Hell, men in general tend to be highly distracted by attractive women wearing very little. But no one seems to actually want to get into a relationship with Nami and Nami doesn't seem to want to get in a relationship with anyone else, and her suit doesn't really offer any tactical advantage, so she's just wearing this outfit that barely shows off any skin around men who acknowledge she's ridiculously gorgeous but don't have any interest in actually doing anything with her, be that relational or sexual.



For me, that's pretty thin. But even if we take this perspective on the event, this does not meet the standard that MHA set. I said the fanservice is at it's best/most acceptable when it's character based. You're arguing that it's gag based, and objectifying Nami and Robin's bodies and basically making them look like complete idiots or creeps for the sake of a gag is not good storytelling for me.

I'm pretty sure I said something similar on here when that chapter was released too. Gags that work with the characters they depict enhance the story, but if they have to break character/world rules to do it, then there's cohesion lost, and that's just not worth it for a joke.

Why does one piece need sex a manga aimed at 13-19 year olds need overt mentions of sex. Ever considered It doesn't include it because this a fundamentally all ages story. Do you see marvel film or any mainstream all go into it in much more detail than one piece has.

One piece has by far and it's not even remotely close the highest adult readership in a shounen manga. Probably the highest adult readership of any manga full stop. Both men and women read this story in equal amounts. In terms what appeals to the majority of actual adults your just plain wrong by litterally any metric.

There are stories that tell really interesting and thought provoking stories based on those elements, One piece never was one of stories it's appeal has been that of those stories and there's a reason the vast majority of it's readership fon't read those stories in manga form.

You seem to have this closeminded thought that what want from a good story is that exact same as what everyone adult or child wants from a story and then hold the mangaka accountable for not making a story exactly to your niche wants.

There's a reason why competent critics give certain action movies high scores even if they're not Oscar winning movies. They appreciate the goal and aim of stories and hold the fact it's not some dramatic historical against them.

 

[Veelk]

Why does one piece need sex a manga aimed at 13-19 year olds need overt mentions of sex. Ever considered It doesn't include it because this a fundamentally all ages story. Do you see marvel film or any mainstream all go into it in much more detail than one piece has.

One Piece already has the concept of sex by introducing sexual appeal in the form of gratuitous fanservice. I mean, the concept of Nami's fanservice actually servicing the fans is precipitated on them being sexually desirous. If their not, then it's not going to do anything for them.

Is that a good thing? Well, if you want to ask why a manga that is a 'fundamentally all ages story' has so much sexual content in it, Oda's the guy to talk to. I don't necessarily have a strong opinion of that myself, I understand that other cultures have different standards for when sexuality is okay to introduce to children and all that. I'm just of the opinion that if it is going to be in the story, then something should be done with it beyond "Hey, look at the giant titties!"

One piece has by far and it's not even remotely close the highest adult readership in a shounen manga. Probably the highest adult readership of any manga full stop. Both men and women read this story in equal amounts. In terms what appeals to the majority of actual adults your just plain wrong by litterally any metric.

This is a pure non-sequitor. Nothing about my post makes any claims about what appeals to who. I have no idea what you're replying to.

You seem to have this closeminded thought that what want from a good story is that exact same as what everyone adult or child wants from a story and then hold the mangaka accountable for not making a story exactly to your niche wants.

Again, what the fuck are you talking about? Where have I said that I speak for any group of people? I've never claimed to speak for anyone but myself.


I can take the thinly veiled antagonism in stride, but I don't even know whose post your actually reading anymore.

 

[LotusHD]

I can take the thinly veiled antagonism in stride, but I don't even know whose post your actually reading anymore.

That's an understatement lol, dude seems to really hate you. I mean, I guess I know why, but sheesh, let's all get along or whatever.

In the meantime, this is me:

 

[Principate]

One Piece already has the concept of sex by introducing sexual appeal in the form of gratuitous fanservice. I mean, the concept of Nami's fanservice actually servicing the fans is precipitated on them being sexually desirous. If their not, then it's not going to do anything for them.

Is that a good thing? Well, if you want to ask why a manga that is a 'fundamentally all ages story' has so much sexual content in it, Oda's the guy to talk to. I don't necessarily have a strong opinion of that myself, I understand that other cultures have different standards for when sexuality is okay to introduce to children and all that. I'm just of the opinion that if it is going to be in the story, then something should be done with it beyond "Hey, look at the giant titties!"



This is a pure non-sequitor. Nothing about my post makes any claims about what appeals to who. I have no idea what you're replying to.



Again, what the fuck are you talking about? Where have I said that I speak for any group of people? I've never claimed to speak for anyone but myself.


I can take the thinly veiled antagonism in stride, but I don't even know whose post your actually reading anymore.

One piece has sex appeal in the same way Hollywood and American t.v. series are filled with attractive people in attractive clothes. Notice how many actual sex jokes their in One Piexe in comparison to many other shounen. The dudes far from perfect at it but he'a at least aware of the line.

You don't but that Oda doesn't have the pull because you don't understand how the business works. Oda as a writer knows what he's good at and has a good grasp at what the appeal of his manga ism you don't remain as the highest selling manga for 20 years without that understanding. Part of that understand and also why shounen generally mandated it is not to deep into sexually explicit elements in your all agrd story. The fact you even consider that specifically a major flaw is quite astonishing really.

 

[Veelk]

That's an understatement lol, dude seems to really hate you. I mean, I guess I know why, but sheesh, let's all get along or whatever.

In the meantime, this is me:

It's because he can't take how obviously intellectually superior I am to him.

Spoiler

/s, for all the good that's going to do

Also, that pudding pic implies you're enjoying this on the inside.

One piece has sex appeal in the same way Hollywood and American t.v. series are filled with attractive people in attractive clothes. Notice how many actual sex jokes their in One Piexe in comparison to many other shounen. The dudes far from perfect at it but he'a at least aware of the line.

You don't but that Oda doesn't have the pull because you don't understand how the business works. Oda as a writer knows what he's good at and has a good grasp at what the appeal of his manga ism you don't remain as the highest selling manga for 20 years without that understanding. Part of that understand and also why shounen generally mandated it is not to deep into sexually explicit elements in your all agrd story. The fact you even consider that specifically a major flaw is quite astonishing really.

You know, even if all you say is true, and I disagree that it is or don't see it proven, you're basically arguing that the philosophy at shonen is that it's perfectly fine to sexually objectify female characters to exploit sexual feelings of the audience, but it's not okay to actually explore those feelings that character's objectification is meant to provoke on a humanistic level.

Yeah, I feel pretty comfortable saying that's kind of a fucked practice to have.

 

[LotusHD]

It's because he can't take how obviously intellectually superior I am to him.

Spoiler

/s, for all the good that's going to do

Also, that pudding pic implies you're enjoying this on the inside.

I wanted it to be One Piece

Spoiler

and Pudding

related, so I figured I'd just use that. But honestly, I feel kinda awkward when I see you two go at it, so I usually just ignore it.

 

[Veelk]

I wanted it to be One Piece

Spoiler

and Pudding

related, so I figured I'd just use that. But honestly, I feel kinda awkward when I see you two go at it, so I usually just ignore it.

You know what, for once...yeah, I'm just gonna drop it. I can usually go ahead with this stuff if I feel that the person, even if they're angry with me, actually think that my argument is just wrong and is trying to make that clear. But I can't even tell what corner he thinks he's pushing me into. He just seems to be lashing out. And it's late anyway, so I'm just gonna drop it.


Edit: Wait a tick, I just remembered. Didn't Shaman King end with the main character and his love interest having sex before he went off to the final battle? And have an epilogue with her having given birth to their child? At fifteen?

Edit 2: Oh no, my mistake. Now, they had sex at about the halfway point. So...yeah. I honestly, I am dropping this conversation, but please tell me again about the draconian laws that prevent mangaka from writing sexual relations (Not that I think Shaman King did it well, mind you, but it does throw that argument out the window pretty thoroughly)

 

[RalchAC]

One piece has sex appeal in the same way Hollywood and American t.v. series are filled with attractive people in attractive clothes. Notice how many actual sex jokes their in One Piexe in comparison to many other shounen. The dudes far from perfect at it but he'a at least aware of the line.

You don't but that Oda doesn't have the pull because you don't understand how the business works. Oda as a writer knows what he's good at and has a good grasp at what the appeal of his manga ism you don't remain as the highest selling manga for 20 years without that understanding. Part of that understand and also why shounen generally mandated it is not to deep into sexually explicit elements in your all agrd story. The fact you even consider that specifically a major flaw is quite astonishing really.

A lot of TV series and Hollywood movies that are like T rated (12 or 13+? I don't pay a lot of attention to age ratings). There are a lot of sexy women, and men, and sex even if they don't show anything.

I mean, take Teen Wolf. Over 4 (5?) seasons, there's been plenty of couples, plenty of teen drama, plenty of I'm-not-showing-you-anything sex. I think there is even been an established gay couple whose on-screen behaviour has been really similar if not the same to the straight couples.

We shouldn't compare Japanese manga and animation to Western media. They are really, really different. Taboos included.

You know what, for once...yeah, I'm just gonna drop it. I can usually go ahead with this stuff if I feel that the person, even if they're angry with me, actually think that my argument is just wrong and is trying to make that clear. But I can't even tell what corner he thinks he's pushing me into. He just seems to be lashing out. And it's late anyway, so I'm just gonna drop it.


Edit: Wait a tick, I just remembered. Didn't Shaman King end with the main character and his love interest having sex before he went off to the final battle? And have an epilogue with her having given birth to their child? At fifteen?

Edit 2: Oh no, my mistake. Now, they had sex at about the halfway point. So...yeah. I honestly, I am dropping this conversation, but please tell me again about the draconian laws that prevent mangaka from writing sexual relations (Not that I think Shaman King did it well, mind you, but it does throw that argument out the window pretty thoroughly)

I have to kind of agree with you here. I understand Oda not wanting to have a romance (at least between members of the crew), but there definitely is something a bit strange when some characters are... as sexually proactive as somebody like Sanji without actually doing anything when they have the chance.

I can understand it if it's a small kid like Momonosuke. At his age he can like women, and boobs, and think it's nice rubbing his face against them, but Sanji is like 20 years old and his behaviour isn't that different from Momo's.

That's why Sanji acting as a mostly normal straight man when it comes Pudding feels like a breath of fresh air, regardless of how fucked up he's been. Because, at least since the time skip, he had shown the sexual intelligence of a 12 years old kid.

Edit: And yeah, I think this is a theme that has been explored. In Dragon Ball, you have characters having kids. Which means that, well, Goku and Chichi has had sex at least twice.

 

[SolVanderlyn]

I'd watch the dub if the whole thing was that good.

 

[Principate]

A lot of TV series and Hollywood movies that are like T rated (12 or 13+? I don't pay a lot of attention to age ratings). There are a lot of sexy women, and men, and sex even if they don't show anything.

I mean, take Teen Wolf. Over 4 (5?) seasons, there's been plenty of couples, plenty of teen drama, plenty of I'm-not-showing-you-anything sex. I think there is even been an established gay couple whose on-screen behaviour has been really similar if not the same to the straight couples.

We shouldn't compare Japanese manga and animation to Western media. They are really, really different. Taboos included.



I have to kind of agree with you here. I understand Oda not wanting to have a romance (at least between members of the crew), but there definitely is something a bit strange when some characters are... as sexually proactive as somebody like Sanji without actually doing anything when they have the chance.

I can understand it if it's a small kid like Momonosuke. At his age he can like women, and boobs, and think it's nice rubbing his face against them, but Sanji is like 20 years old and his behaviour isn't that different from Momo's.

That's why Sanji acting as a mostly normal straight man when it comes Pudding feels like a breath of fresh air, regardless of how fucked up he's been. Because, at least since the time skip, he had shown the sexual intelligence of a 12 years old kid.

Edit: And yeah, I think this is a theme that has been explored. In Dragaon Ball, you have characters having kids. Which means that, well, Goku and Chichi has had sex at least twice.

As much as you maybe unaware actual sex is displayed plenty in Japanese manga within the teen age bracket pick up a smutty shoujo sometime you'd be surprised. This is not some unique to western phenomena. Teen wolf and the the usual CW shows have a similar demographic they cater to (young female teens). There's a good reason why you don't see much referrence to sex even in young teen cartoon and animation shows or major all ages actions movie. They tend to either skew much lower or aim for an all age. Teen wolf and smutty shoujo's do neither of these things. I don't have to tell you which of these one pieces fall under. Taboo's etc maybe different but they're not that different. It's why mainstream Japanese media has cross over appeal.

 

[Big One]

It's because he can't take how obviously intellectually superior I am to him.

Spoiler

/s, for all the good that's going to do

I'm sure I would seem intellectually superior to others too if I stretch one opinion on something into essay sized posts that make the filler in One Piece tolerable in comparison.

Spoiler

To clarify, I'm still going to respond to your post later today

 

[Principate]

One Piece already has the concept of sex by introducing sexual appeal in the form of gratuitous fanservice. I mean, the concept of Nami's fanservice actually servicing the fans is precipitated on them being sexually desirous. If their not, then it's not going to do anything for them.

Is that a good thing? Well, if you want to ask why a manga that is a 'fundamentally all ages story' has so much sexual content in it, Oda's the guy to talk to. I don't necessarily have a strong opinion of that myself, I understand that other cultures have different standards for when sexuality is okay to introduce to children and all that. I'm just of the opinion that if it is going to be in the story, then something should be done with it beyond "Hey, look at the giant titties!"



This is a pure non-sequitor. Nothing about my post makes any claims about what appeals to who. I have no idea what you're replying to.



Again, what the fuck are you talking about? Where have I said that I speak for any group of people? I've never claimed to speak for anyone but myself.


I can take the thinly veiled antagonism in stride, but I don't even know whose post your actually reading anymore.

You have your quirks and I have mine. I just find whenever someone writes essays on the most mundane shit it either means they don't won't their post to be read or they like to make an aggressive waste of someone's time. If I had to work with you on any sort of project, I'd genuinely get annoyed very quickly at how you write so much and state so very little since I actually bother to engage in your criticisms.

 

[El Topo]

It's okay to like or enjoy something, even if parts of it are dumb or bad. One Piece has a notorious problem when it comes to the portrayal of women, but that doesn't make you a monster for enjoying the manga nonetheless.
It feels like everytime I glimpse into this thread it's the same discussion that goes nowhere. No one pretends that One Piece is this brilliant or flawless work of art, but it's a thoroughly entertaining manga.

 

[RalchAC]

As much as you maybe unaware actual sex is displayed plenty in Japanese manga within the teen age bracket pick up a smutty shoujo sometime you'd be surprised. This is not some unique to western phenomena. Teen wolf and the the usual CW shows have a similar demographic they cater to (young female teens). There's a good reason why you don't see much referrence to sex even in young teen cartoon and animation shows or major all ages actions movie. They tend to either skew much lower or aim for an all age. Teen wolf and smutty shoujo's do neither of these things. I don't have to tell you which of these one pieces fall under. Taboo's etc maybe different but they're not that different. It's why mainstream Japanese media has cross over appeal.

Then there is nothing stopping Oda but the fact that he doesn't want to do it. Which is fine, it's his work after all, but it doesn't make it good, since Sanji is in an age where he could have perfectly had sex, presumably knows what sex actually is (after all, he is angry at Luffy due to what he may have actually done during the 2 years he "spent" at Amazon Lily), yet isn't able to do anything but tremble in excitement every time he sees a pair of boobs.

Do I honestly care about it? I wouldn't say so. But I understand why Velk may be, because it's something that could annoy me.

That said, Big Mom must have had his good share of fun over the years. She has dozens of children lol.

 

[Principate]

Then there is nothing stopping Oda but the fact that he doesn't want to do it. Which is fine, it's his work after all, but it doesn't make it good, since Sanji is in an age where he could have perfectly had sex, presumably knows what sex actually is (after all, he is angry at Luffy due to what he may have actually done during the 2 years he "spent" at Amazon Lily), yet isn't able to do anything but tremble in excitement every time he sees a pair of boobs.

Do I honestly care about it? I wouldn't say so. But I understand why Velk may be, because it's something that could annoy me.

That said, Big Mom must have had his good share of fun over the years. She has dozens of children lol.

There isn't anything stopping Oda outside of the carefully curated all age nature of the story which is part of it's marketability. That was my main point these sorts of things don't happen by chance. There's all sorts of things you can do with a story but if you have any particular set of goals (In Oda's and WSJ it's maintaining an extremely profitable brand/story that plays to the author's strengths). Certain actions have no benefit whatsoever and are actively harmful if done poorly. It all comes down to story expectations and goals.

 

[RalchAC]

There isn't anything stopping Oda outside of the carefully curated all age nature of the story which is part of it's marketability. That was my main point these sorts of things don't happen by chance. There's all sorts of things you can do with a story but if you have any particular set of goals (In Oda's and WSJ it's maintaining an extremely profitable brand/story that plays to the author's strengths). Certain actions have no benefit whatsoever and are actively harmful if done poorly. It all comes down to story expectations and goals.

And that's fair, but it's not enough of a reason to say "it's all ok" if something bothers you. And doesn't turn "Sanji's quirk" into something that's actually good.

In general, I would say that both Brook and Mononosuke work "better" as perv characters. The former is a kid. The latter is more of a "pervert granpa" and... well, he is an skeleton. So asking a beautiful women to show him her panties is the best poor Soul King can get.

If sexuality is a dead end in One Piece due to story expectations and goals (which it is, I agree with you here), pushing Sanji's pervert quirk as hard as he's done may have not been the best idea from a storytelling perspective. Because it creates a contradiction. Which may or may not bother people. I've already said it doesn't bother me much. If you can't even understand that notion, and see why people can be bothered by it despite not sharing the same views, there is no reason to keep discussing about this.

 

[Principate]

And that's fair, but it's not enough of a reason to say "it's all ok" if something bothers you. And doesn't turn "Sanji's quirk" into something that's actually good.

In general, I would say that both Brook and Mononosuke work "better" as perv characters. The former is a kid. The latter is more of a "pervert granpa" and... well, he is an skeleton. So asking a beautiful women to show him her panties is the best poor Soul King can get.

If sexuality is a dead end in One Piece due to story expectations and goals (which it is, I agree with you here), pushing Sanji's pervert quirk as hard as he's done may have not been the best idea from a storytelling perspective. Because it creates a contradiction. Which may or may not bother people. I've already said it doesn't bother me much. If you can't even understand that notion, and see why people can be bothered by it despite not sharing the same views, there is no reason to keep discussing about this.

See this is where I completely disagree with you. Even if One piece has sex Sanji would not be getting laid or at least extremely rarely. Sanji is not a ladies man (Shanks is a ladies man). Oda has never potrayed Sanji as a ladies man. He's a wannabe ladies man. Either due to bad luck or incompetance he won't successfully seduce someone or if he does it won't work out. Oda has made 20 years worth of gags based on this fact. They don't work if Sanji actually was competant at seducing and romancing women. It's a reasonably common character archetype and you see the analogue of those fedora wearing people in real life. The fact he never had a chance with these women is purposeful not a by product of the story. He's not the butt of all these jokes by chance.

 

[RalchAC]

See this is where I completely disagree with you. Even if One piece has sex Sanji would not be getting laid or at least extremely rarely. Sanji is not a ladies man (Shanks is a ladies man). Oda has never potrayed Sanji as a ladies man. He's a wannabe ladies man. Either due to bad luck or incompetance he won't successfully seduce someone or if he does it won't work out. Oda has made 20 years worth of gags based on this fact. They don't work if Sanji actually was competant at seducing and romancing women. It's a reasonably common character archetype and you see the analogue of those fedora wearing people in real life. The fact he never had a chance with these women is purposeful not a by product of the story.

That exact opinion I hold, at least prior to the time skip. He's shown as a wannabe ladies man quite often. You have him trying to get Nami and Vivi's atentions, there is him buying them those belly dance outfits in Arabasta, how he "can't" hit Khalifa when he has to fight her in Ennies Lobby and being jealeous of Absalom when he finds out he has the Invisible Devil Fruit.

Then you get to the Fishmen Island arc, there is the Mermaid Tavern scene, where he is surrounded by mermaids, swimming and dancing with all of them, and then it's hidden from the three princes of the Royal Fishman Family, he is close to a mermaid boobs, and instead of making a move he just... bleeds out.

That's the kind of situation I mean. Most of the time, I'd say you are right. Luffy not caring about women helps Oda stay within expectations since the most beautiful woman in the world is in love with him. Nami and Robin not caring about looking for a potential partner makes sense too. We haven't seen any female tanuki for Chopper. The list goes on. Taking a big L with Pudding makes sense from this point of view too.

But I would say there are 2 big red flags in Fishman Island and Dressrosa (Mermaid Cafe and Viola respectively), which may be the two big moments that made this behaviour stand out and be bothersome to certain people.

 

[Principate]

That exact opinion I hold, at least prior to the time skip. He's shown as a wannabe ladies man quite often. You have him trying to get Nami and Vivi's atentions, there is him buying them those belly dance outfits in Arabasta, how he "can't" hit Khalifa when he has to fight her in Ennies Lobby and being jealeous of Absalom when he finds out he has the Invisible Devil Fruit.

Then you get to the Fishmen Island arc, there is the Mermaid Tavern scene, where he is surrounded by mermaids, swimming and dancing with all of them, and then it's hidden from the three princes of the Royal Fishman Family, he is close to a mermaid boobs, and instead of making a move he just... bleeds out.

That's the kind of situation I mean. Most of the time, I'd say you are right. Luffy not caring about women helps Oda stay within expectations since the most beautiful woman in the world is in love with him. Nami and Robin not caring about looking for a potential partner makes sense too. We haven't seen any female tanuki for Chopper. The list goes on. Taking a big L with Pudding makes sense from this point of view too.

But I would say there are 2 big red flags in Fishman Island and Dressrosa (Mermaid Cafe and Viola respectively), which may be the two big moments that made this behaviour stand out and be bothersome to certain people.

That would still happen, maybe not in the exact same way but I'm pretty sure it still would considering Oda's writing style. The dude while also being incompetent with seducing has very little experience in general. Even if someone wanted to have sex with him things like nerves and inexperience would get the better of him, which is again a very common trait of these sorts of characters.

Just because someone wants to have sex doesn't mean they're smoothly able to actually do it when the opportunity presents itself. This is astonishingly common.

 

[Ray Down]

Surprised no one like the Jigglypuff comparison I made.

 

[RomanceDawn]

Ugh what a discussion. Sanji has porno magazines and thats all any man really needs.

 

[Ray Down]

Ugh what a discussion. Sanji has porno magazines and thats all any man really needs.

No one can beat him at five knuckle shuffle.

 

[Imperial Bishop]

Maybe we should contemplate some more (dumb) questions, like why is no one seen using the bathroom on-screen?

Because...you know...that's as equally important as seeing sex.

 

[Chase17]

I really thought Brook had this /s

Luffy going straight back to the spot lol. Good chapter.

 

[Ray Down]

I really thought Brook had this

Luffy going straight back to the spot lol. Good chapter.

Against a yonko.....?

 

[RalchAC]

Maybe we should contemplate some more (dumb) questions, like why is no one seen using the bathroom on-screen?

Because...you know...that's as equally important as seeing sex.

Well, I was just trying to say it's not such as outlandish idea to think somebody could be bothered by it, but the discussion went in a different direction without me noticing.

In any case, I'd try to avoid this kind of discussion from now on. It's not something that particularly annoys me and I know a lot of posters aren't fond of this type of discussions when they pop up.

 

[KuwabaraTheMan]

I really thought Brook had this

Luffy going straight back to the spot lol. Good chapter.

Wait, are you saying that you thought Brook was going to take down Big Mom?

 

[Chase17]

Against a yonko.....?

Wait, are you saying that you thought Brook was going to take down Big Mom?

There should have been a /s in my post, edited in now

 

[Red Fire]

Well obviously i didn't read those.... texts but going by the comments: did someone really say he/she was bothered by one piece not showing people having sex? Looooooooooooool

Anyway, regarding brook vs big mom: obviously brook could never have beaten her in that situation but looking at the outcome (it's almost guaranteed that he has hidden a copy of the road poneglyph somewhere in his body, probably in his skull as he had done before) we can say that he accomplished his mission which is damn impressive. Even seeing him stand just a little chance against big mom and not immediately get knocked out or defeated is amazing. Until now brook is the MVP this arc if we look at the main goal of the crew (helping luffy become pirate king) because this is a HUGE step for that goal.

 

[BatDan]

Maybe we should contemplate some more (dumb) questions, like why is no one seen using the bathroom on-screen?

Because...you know...that's as equally important as seeing sex.

Seriously this thread gets really stupid and annoying. It's not even a hiatus week.

 

[Veelk]

I know that a lot of you hate when talks get this heated and stuff, but do you know what I hate about them?

That by this point, people are either incapable or unwilling to actually try to understand the argument taking place because it's been turned into an exaggerated, caricatured strawman of what it actually was.

What my original point was that the characters of MHA, being teenagers, were experiencing sexual desires/awakenings so that when they interact and develop relationships, that aspects is included in their growth, which makes them feel very real and human. The fanservice stuff is there there and still arguably problematic, but the fact that it's not just something happening for the audience and actually a real part of the character's lives does a lot to mitigate the damage.

My only point was that One Piece could do something like that. Because as of now, One Piece uses sex as an exploitative aspect for the sake of it's audience. I think it's bad that it has nothing going on with it on a character level with the vast majority of it's characters, and is especially puzzling in the case of Sanji, who wants to be sexual but then doesn't take the opportunity or Nami who apparently likes to flaunt her body to the appreciation of no one. It just seems kind of fucked up to me that a manga would be comfortable exploiting this shit, but not comfortable exploring it on a human level. And I honestly don't understand why that's a controversial statement.

Somehow...somehow...some people interpret this as "I think One Piece should become a hentai doujinshi". I mean...idk what I'm even supposed to do with this stuff. It's blatant strawmanning. And I see it happen a lot. Like, perhaps it's my writing, but I was just in the Kojima's "I'll have titties for a reason" thread, and I wrote the same way I write here, and they all seemed to get it. When they responded and asked for clarifications or gave counter arguments, they seemed to do it with genuine attempts to understand the argument being made. Here, it always just devolves into the most silly and ridiculous possible interpretation of what was written possible.

I'm sure I would seem intellectually superior to others too if I stretch one opinion on something into essay sized posts that make the filler in One Piece tolerable in comparison.

Spoiler

To clarify, I'm still going to respond to your post later today

Please do me a favor and PM me about it. Honestly, I'd rather drop this here for now.

 

[Big One]

This excuse has been brought up many times before, and I simply do not buy it.

You're telling me that WSJ is going to take the most commercially and criticially successful manga of all time out of their selection because Oda wants to do some unconventional storytelling (something that could be ascribed to a lot of OP)? The manga that brings them in millions a year like clockwork. No. It's hard to believe that Oda is held on any level to the same standards a typical mangaka is, but even doing that to a typically successful mangaka is insane. There's no way Oda doesn't have Carte Blanche to do whatever he wants,. Or, even if he somehow doesn't, lets think this through for a minute. WSJ kicks him out of their selection. So what? What is the worst that could happen here, seriously? He takes his stupidly successful manga and completes it in another magazine? Who in all the fuck is going to reject One Piece?

No. Whatever reason Oda does what he does, it's hard to believe it's under editorial mandate. Not to say that Oda doesn't listen to his editors if they advise him, but you're suggesting Oda's not doing this because he isn't allowed and he is forced to do otherwise, and I just don't buy that.

Furthermore, what proof do we have of this? I don't mean "Well, Look at how even Toriyama wanted to do the androids, but one call from his editor and..." No, that just means he trusted his editor enough to follow his advice, especially since he was his former editor not his current one. You're going on the assumption that Oda wants to depict these things, but is blocked by the heads of WSJ, and you're not the only one. Several people seem to take this as gospel truth. And I want tangible evidence of this, like an interview with Oda saying such, not just speculation.

More than anything, this showcases your complete lack of understanding on how WSJ works (though I'm not faulting for you for this by any means). To answer you question bluntly...YES Oda is influenced heavily by his editors.

There's a reason why the recent arcs of One Piece have been feeling rather chaotic. Punk Hazard was originally supposed to be two arcs, as well as the Green Bit aspects of Dressrosa was originally meant to be a separate arc as well. While it's never been directly stated as being editor intervention, the fact that it's Oda's editors that keep on posting updates about One Piece's progress story-wise (such as the 65% complete comments) it's obvious they have some pretty major influence on Oda's pacing of his story.

The 12 Supernovas were also introduced at the whim of his editors as well.

WSJ is heavily involved with the popularity of One Piece. WSJ's motus operandi is to create family-friendly manga that is targeted towards young boys but can reach wider audiences as well. Of course, keep in mind Japan's perspective of family friendly is rather different than ours. They're more open about their sexuality, though they have reserved back quite a bit over the years. WSJ used to publish what was essentially ecchi manga in the 70's for example.

If Oda drew an entire chapter of Sanji having sex with Pudding, or even suggesting he's having sex with her, WSj would reject it down instantly.

And besides, I'm not saying 'show explicit sexual content', I'm saying 'show characters interested in relationships'.

The characters do show interest in relationships. I mean, that's the entire premise of One Piece is friendship, loyalty, and comradery. They don't have to show a sexual interest or even loving interest in others to keep the story forward. One Piece isn't really written to be a story like that, and showhorning it into the story isn't going to help whatsoever.

It's like all of those Marvel movies where the entire plot and character arc involves around something that ISN'T the character being in love, but somehow they always manage to shoehorn the "girlfriend" character to exemplify the alpha-male fantasy. Why does a character like Thor need an arc centered around being in love? Of course we see stuff like this in the comics as well, and it's equally as trashing and lifeless there as it is in the movies.

No, you misunderstand. When I say their teenagers, what I mean is they're awkward and have no idea what the fuck their doing. They kind of pussyfoot around and uncertain how to deal with their feelings. Mineta is depraved about it and turns people off of it, while there are a few others that go along with his antics to a lesser degree, but most show they are affected by women's bodies but try to be respectful about it like Todoroki, or just the idea that they can get somewhat close to women like when Sugar bakes cake and women pick him as the favorite. It's light stuff, somewhat like OP in that regard, but then when it comes to acting on genuine feelings, few people do anything not because they lack interest, but they are uncertain how to go about it. Ochako and Deku have no idea how to act toward one another besides being friends. They're attracted to each other, and like each other, but are not sure how to express those feelings and are even conflicted about even having them. That's being a teenager.

Sanji is a teenager age wise, but doesn't have this problem (nor does anyone else in the manga). He's not shy and he has no confusion about the feelings he has toward women, and expresses these feelings without restraint at any given opportunity. So, when he encounters mermaids who are equally open and upfront about being into him, the fact that he and them don't really do anything, that he just sits there drooling, that's not a normal human reaction. You get someone that eager and willing and you get women who are also eager and willing, that usually goes somewhere. And for the record, I'm not saying that I want anything explicit shown. Obviously. It's a kids manga and the last thing I ever want to see is Sanji's nude body thrusting and making an o face. But you can work with implications or even just outright saying "Sanji's over there making out with the mermaids" without actually showing it.

And when you put Sanji aside, the fact that their teenagers makes the way the characters act more jarring. Like, sometimes it's acknowledged that what Nami is wearing is provocative as hell, but most of the time, it's flat out ignored. Lets say that Luffy is just straight up asexual. Okay, but Usopp has been shown to have an attraction to women/nami. But nearly every guy thinks Nami's (and most women's, since it's hardly only Nami dressing like this) outfit is barely worth a second glance most of the time. I'm not saying everyone should act like a pervert degenerate or something, but teenage boys tend to be highly distracted by attractive women wearing very little. Hell, men in general tend to be highly distracted by attractive women wearing very little. But no one seems to actually want to get into a relationship with Nami and Nami doesn't seem to want to get in a relationship with anyone else, and her suit doesn't really offer any tactical advantage, so she's just wearing this outfit that barely shows off any skin around men who acknowledge she's ridiculously gorgeous but don't have any interest in actually doing anything with her, be that relational or sexual.

This isn't true either. It's consistently acknowledge by nearly every major character that encounters Nami that they think she's beautiful or at least acknowledge her beauty. There's Brook and Sanji obviously, and then there's Yonji, Absalom, Kinemon, and many others throughout the series that has acknowledge that Nami is attractive in some form or another (Kinemon in particular always notes how she dresses). However even this is unusual considering most of the time the Strawhats are dealing with local and global crises that such discourse as, "Nice pair of tits there!" to be unusual in those situations in a series that is already defined by being unusual already.

For me, that's pretty thin. But even if we take this perspective on the event, this does not meet the standard that MHA set. I said the fanservice is at it's best/most acceptable when it's character based. You're arguing that it's gag based, and objectifying Nami and Robin's bodies and basically making them look like complete idiots or creeps for the sake of a gag is not good storytelling for me.

I'm pretty sure I said something similar on here when that chapter was released too. Gags that work with the characters they depict enhance the story, but if they have to break character/world rules to do it, then there's cohesion lost, and that's just not worth it for a joke.

Nothing about Momo's gag breaks character or world rules, though. I mean, the gag was centered around Momo, who is still a fairly new character we know little about. There are similar gags involving EVERY SINGLE ONE OF THE STRAWHATS that have little to nothing to do with Nami or Robin.

When Franky runs around without his underwear, it was Franky's gag, with the entire Strawhat crew being accessories to that gag.
When Sanji lost all that blood from nosebleed on Fishman Island, Chopper and the Okama became accessories for that gag.
When Robin says something weird or gloomy, Usopp is the accessory for reacting to it (sometimes the audience is the accessory here).

It's just part of the discourse of the Strawhats. It isn't meant to be storytelling more-so than being breaks to the conventional storytelling. That's what gags are by and large meant to be unless the entire series is centered around them, which isn't the case.

 

[Veelk]

accidental post

 

[Ogodei]

The gag is that Nami is oblivious to Momo's intentions, when she otherwise catches on quick to that sort of thing.

Robin probably gets it, but plays along because she's a troll.

 

[Mendrox]

The gag is that Nami is oblivious to Momo's intentions, when she otherwise catches on quick to that sort of thing.

Robin probably gets it, but plays along because she's a troll.

Man Momo just has the swag. Would gladly change with him

 

[Ray Down]

Break next week if spoilers are true.
Nothing chapter it seems like.
13 pages this week.

 

[NSESN]

Break next week if spoilers are true.
Nothing chapter it seems like.
13 pages this week.

2 chapters between breaks? it's strange. Just after the jump holidays breaks too.

 

[Ray Down]

They are fake, spoilers in a bit, on mobile ATM.

 

[Ray Down]

One Piece 854:

Spoiler

Chapter 854 "What're You Doing"

Nami and Jinbe run away from their pursuers by being pulled into the Mirror World by Chopper.

Queen's Chamber
Prometheus is being treated for a wound.
Brook is the first person to wound Prometheus.
Despite Brook being there, Pudding shows her third eye and true personality while confirming the plans for the wedding.

When Sanji lifts up her veil to give the kiss, she will reveal her third eye.
While he flinches, she is to shoot him in the middle of the forehead.
With that as the signal, the rest of the unarmed Vinsmokes will be unloaded on.

6th Floor Sanji's Room
The watch guard is sleeping in Sanji's bed.
Another guard's sees someone sleeping in Sanji's room and goes to report this.

2nd Floor Meeting Room
The Ministers are reconfirming the situation regarding the invading Strawhats.
The Soul King is currently in Big Mom's hands.
Pedro is dead by explosion.
They've gotten a report that Chopper and Carrot have been captured by Brulee.
Luffy and Nami were burned to death during Opera's torturing.
Opera: (There's no way I could tell that I screwed up on guard duty! Mama will take away my entire lifespan!)
They receive reports that Sanji and the rest of the Vinsmokes are retired to their rooms, so they end their meeting


Ends with Sanji kicking Bobbin who was trying to eat the Bento.
Sanji picks it up and takes it with him.

 

[Veelk]

Spoiler

Luffy and Nami were burned to death during Opera's torturing.
Opera: (There's no way I could tell that I screwed up on guard duty! Mama will take away my entire lifespan!)

See, this is just bad evil overlording.

Spoiler

Now Big Mom has her minion lying to her and she cannot prepare for the strawhats coming her way. And I'm not sure what Opera actually avoids by doing this, since I'm pretty sure someone with Big Mom's personality would be more pissed off over her collection being ruined (which he's honest about) rather than an escaped set of prisoners.

Lastly, I continue to scratch my head at Big Mom's actual handling of Luffy and Nami. It's more or less now confirmed that Luffy and Nami weren't meant to see Sanji before the wedding. So why not just kill them and lie to Sanji?

 

[everyday math]

This chapter sounds like it's all over the place.

 

[Ray Down]

Not a lot of talk in here

Spoiler

despite Pudding savage hope.

Spoiler

I still don't know about her.

SBS Volume 84 info:

- Buggy 39 years old (same as Shanks)
Kuro 35 years old
Kreig 44 years old
Wapol 29 yeas old
Foxy 38 years old

- Reiju 24 years old. She was born 3 years earlier than other brothers.

Height
Reiju 173cm
Ichiji 186cm
Niji 185 cm
Sanji 180cm
Yonji 194cm

Before TS, Hancok was not a good cook, but now she is very good at cooking meat.

- After Corazon died, Law went to the neighborhood town which was located in "Swallow Island".

Shachi and Penguin were bad boys in Swallow Island in North Blue.

Bepo left Zou and chased his elder brother. He then got on board the ship which was heading for North Blue. He was wandering in Swallow Island 13 years ago.

Law witnessed a Polar Bear who was bullied by 2 bad boys. The bad boys picked a fight agains Law, but Law beat them up. The bad boys (Shachi and Penguin) and Bepo were attracted by Law.

When they first met,
Law 13 years old
Penguin 15 years old
Shachi 14 years old
Bepo 9 years old.

Bepo studied hard navigation skill since he wanted to come back Zou.

Oda says he doesn't have an intention to draw it in manga.

 

[Ogodei]

Quiet chapter, but now everything's in place and the villains don't know so, so much about what's about to hit them

Spoiler

(that Sanji and Reiju know, that all the Straw Hats and Minks are still alive and free, sans Brook, and the Treasure Box Bomb.)