Support NeoGAF

[Rebel Leader]

Buggy D Clown

Buggy Da Clown

 

[Imperial Bishop]

Wouldn't exist. Nami might marry someone for their money, but she would never fall in love with a man and marry him. Maybe a woman, but never a man. She's got that single life locked down either way.

Why marry him for the money when she could just still the money and dip?

 

[Foolworm]

Just reread Dressrosa and one thing that really stood out was how unconvincing Luffy's win against Doflamingo was. Even the asspull that was Enel wasn't as disappointing as this one.

 

[Veelk]

Just reread Dressrosa and one thing that really stood out was how unconvincing Luffy's win against Doflamingo was. Even the asspull that was Enel wasn't as disappointing as this one.

There was a lot of debate about whether Luffy had won back when it happened. It was mostly centered around whether Law contributed enough with his attack that Luffy wouldn't have been able to beat him without it. It wasn't until way after the time for discussion passed that I realized that Luffy definitively lost the fight. His Gear 4 ran out of steam before he could finish off Doflamingo, and when Luffy collapsed, Doflamingo woke up. The only reason he didn't murder Luffy right there was because the Dressrosa citizens ran off with him and played keepaway.

So if it wasn't for the direct intervention of a 3rd party that gave Luffy time to recover, he'd have died there, in addition to all the other shit Doflamingo has had to deal with before he fought Luffy. So Doflamingo was definitely stronger.

 

[Majukun]

Just reread Dressrosa and one thing that really stood out was how unconvincing Luffy's win against Doflamingo was. Even the asspull that was Enel wasn't as disappointing as this one.

why unconvincing?
doffy fought against several opponent during the entirety of dressrosa,was almost killed by law and still managed to fight against luffy well,and luffy was able to defeat him only because he was "standing on the shoulders" of all the people who fought and damaged him before.

as for the "asspulls",well to begin i don't think enel's vulnerability to rubber was one..mostly because i saw it coming from a mile away back then,so it was more of a surprise for the charactaers in the manga than me...and as for g4....well at least g4 makes sense,contrary to gear 3 which doesn't make any sense..too bad they had to use the king kong gun which is basically g3 + g4

 

[Ganzlinger]

Luffy win against Enel was troublesome because rubber ins't suppose to be invulnerable to lightning, particularly with that high voltage.

And yes, Doflamingo was stronger than Luffy.

 

[Majukun]

Luffy win against Enel was troublesome because rubber ins't suppose to be invulnerable to lightning, particularly with that high voltage.

And yes, Doflamingo was stronger than Luffy.

yeah,but we were fresh from ther battle with crocodile,and no haki was in sight,so the idea was that a rogia had to have a weak point..and if not rubber,i don't know what other element can be considered the "weak point" of lightning

 

[Cloud Strife]

yeah,but we were fresh from ther battle with crocodile,and no haki was in sight,so the idea was that a rogia had to have a weak point..and if not rubber,i don't know what other element can be considered the "weak point" of lightning

I agree with you, but I think Ganz just means the ridiculous amount of voltage power Enel used would have fried Luffy regardless. That's a fuck ton of energy.

 

[Principate]

Luffy win against Enel was troublesome because rubber ins't suppose to be invulnerable to lightning, particularly with that high voltage.

And yes, Doflamingo was stronger than Luffy.

I wouldn't say Doflamingo was stronger, Gear 4 abilties pretty easily wrecked him. Luffy has a stamina problem and like all Shounen powerups will become irrelevant in the next arc or the one after that. If he had gone for king kong gun intially the battle would have ended much quicker.

In straight Endurance DD wins handily but it's not impossible for Luffy to win without outside help.

I agree with you, but I think Ganz just means the ridiculous amount of voltage power Enel used would have fried Luffy regardless. That's a fuck ton of energy.

Not really, we're talking about a manga where pell survived a nuke and that it's not the only instance of that type of thing.

 

[Cloud Strife]

Not really, we're talking about a manga where pell survived a nuke and that it's not the only instance of that type of thing.

Lol I know, which is why I said I agree
Can't apply the real world here.

 

[Ganzlinger]

I agree with you, but I think Ganz just means the ridiculous amount of voltage power Enel used would have fried Luffy regardless. That's a fuck ton of energy.

Yeah, that's what I'm saying, but I know common sense doesn't necessarily apply here (hell we are talking about Devil Fruits) that's why Luffy victory doesn't bother me.

 

[Cloud Strife]

The one thing that still gets me if we're talking about unconvincing stuff is how Nami and Chopper were "captured" by Capone Bege's dudes.

I guess you could say it was because they didn't want to worry the minks but c'mon.

 

[Majukun]

The one thing that still gets me if we're talking about unconvincing stuff is how Nami and Chopper were "captured" by Capone Bege's dudes.

I guess you could say it was because they didn't want to worry the minks but c'mon.

they were under gunpoint from more than a dozen guys all around them..what's unconvincing about it?
i mean,they are great fighters and all,but they are still not faster than a bullet and still not immune to them

 

[Cloud Strife]

they were under gunpoint from more than a dozen guys all around them..what's unconvincing about it?
i mean,they are great fighters and all,but they are still not faster than a bullet and still not immune to them

You have to be joking.

Fodder with guns vs. an awakened Zoan user and a woman who can control the weather? We could go all day about how this is bullshit, but it was certainly far from convincing. Especially in a series where guns don't do shit.

No.

 

[Tathanen]

You have to be joking.

Fodder with guns vs. an awakened Zoan user and a woman who can control the weather? We could go all day about how this is bullshit, but it was certainly far from convincing. Especially in a series where guns don't do shit.

No.

They weren't just random mooks, they were effectively Capone's ability. He's a supernova, pretty sure he could grind Nami and Chopper to dust by himself.

 

[Cloud Strife]

They weren't just random mooks, they were effectively Capone's ability. He's a supernova, pretty sure he could grind Nami and Chopper to dust by himself.

What's special about them? As far as I can tell they're just dudes with guns.
I'm more talking about Nami and Chopper getting captured than the whole encounter btw.

 

[Tathanen]

What's special about them? As far as I can tell they're just dudes with guns.

I just doubt Capone would be as well-regarded as he is if all he had were "dudes with guns." I am sure they are more skilled than the average mook.

 

[Cloud Strife]

I just doubt Capone would be as well-regarded as he is if all he had were "dudes with guns." I am sure they are more skilled than the average mook.

Well yeah, as a unit. Capone wasn't the one who captured them. Chopper and Nami aren't exactly weak either.

 

[Tathanen]

Well yeah, as a unit. Capone wasn't the one who captured them. Chopper and Nami aren't exactly weak either.

well

they kinda are

But perhaps more importantly, neither of them are really the "shoot first, ask questions later" type.

 

[Cloud Strife]

well

they kinda are

But perhaps more importantly, neither of them are really the "shoot first, ask questions later" type.

Weak in comparison to who? Luffy? Or a supernova's lackeys with guns? It's just not convincing.

I'll eat some crow if we see a Capone fight and he's got more to him than what we've seen. I'm counting on him getting some action in the next arc for sure.

 

[Majukun]

You have to be joking.

Fodder with guns vs. an awakened Zoan user and a woman who can control the weather? We could go all day about how this is bullshit, but it was certainly far from convincing. Especially in a series where guns don't do shit.

No.

if you shoot nami she would go down as far as anyone else..and while chopper could have defend himself with the guard point,he can't defend nami as well since they were surrounded

hell even law and pekoms where KOed for a while by bullets...a weakened whitebeard was killed by bullets...how exactly should nami be able to shrug them off?

goons with guns in onepiece are usually useless because they never hit for one reason of the other,they are basically stormtroopers..but since they were surrounded by guys a few meters from them,it's not like you can realistically make them miss her

even qithut counting that pretty much all of nami moves need preparation time of some kind,time she doesn't have at gun point

 

[Cloud Strife]

if you shoot nami she would go down as far as anyone else..and while chopper could have defend himself with the guard point,he can't defend nami as well since they were surrounded

hell even law and pekoms where KOed for a while by bullets...a weakened whitebeard was killed by bullets...how exactly should nami be able to shrug them off?

goons with guns in onepiece are usually useless because they never hit for one reason of the other,they are basically stormtroopers..but since they were surrounded by guys a few meters from them,it's not like you can realistically make them miss her

even qithut counting that pretty much all of nami moves need preparation time of some kind,time she doesn't have at gun point

Okay, assuming they were surrounded since this happened off panel:

Chopper's Guard Point is massive, definitely able to cover Nami.
Nami has mirage tempo.

Even basic shit like this would have given them a chance to get away and fight back or escape.

And I agree with you on the guns, they don't do shit because it's usually Powers > Regular Weapons. Which is why it's strange this wasn't the case. I'm not saying they would shrug off a gun attack, but that I doubt they would have ever been hit.

In the end they just needed to be captured. And it was poorly done imo. Make Capone's dudes threaten to kill a mink if they don't comply or something, but don't tell me there was absolutely nothing they could have done in a scenario where it was just them vs. Nami and Chopper.

 

[NHarmonic.]

They weren't just random mooks, they were effectively Capone's ability. He's a supernova, pretty sure he could grind Nami and Chopper to dust by himself.

lewd, Mirage tempo: Fatta Morgana was the only thing they required. And i'm quite sure Nami could've come up with a way to set it up.

But no, "we're useless sanji, save us".

 

[More Fun To Compute]

Oda has to build up Capone as a scary member of the worst generation even though his ability is trash tier. It was too much really.

 

[Majukun]

Okay, assuming they were surrounded since this happened off panel:

Chopper's Guard Point is massive, definitely able to cover Nami.

can cover nami from one side,not on 360...only thing i can see that work is if she is somehow ablte to stay "inside" the fur..but i don't think the "fur armor" works that way,othrwise it would no protect that much

Nami has mirage tempo.

still needs preparation time,like all her moves really

And I agree with you on the guns, they don't do shit because it's usually Powers > Regular Weapons. Which is why it's strange this wasn't the case. I'm not saying they would shrug off a gun attack, but that I doubt they would have ever been hit.

why?nami definitely isn't fast enough to dodge a bulllet,and nothing in her arsenal works as a defensive shield,unlike with chopper..and she can't really use anything anyway since she still is in front of a guy with his finger on the trigger,no matter how fast she tries to pull a move off,she is till slower than a finger pull.

In the end they just needed to be captured. And it was poorly done imo. Make Capone's dudes threaten to kill a mink if they don't comply or something, but don't tell me there was absolutely nothing they could have done in a scenario where it was just them vs. Nami and Chopper.

well,as long as they were taken by surprise and surrounded by guns,it's exactly what i'm telling you,chopper might have something to defend himself against bullets,but nami doesn't,and she doesn't even have a particularly tough body to fight through the bullet wounds

lewd, Mirage tempo: Fatta Morgana was the only thing they required. And i'm quite sure Nami could've come up with a way to set it up.

But no, "we're useless sanji, save us".

like,what?
"excuse me guys while i shoot this bubbles around and then move my obvious baton weapon around ?"

Oda has to build up Capone as a scary member of the worst generation even though his ability is trash tier. It was too much really.

well his ability is directly proportionate to what is his military power
during the timeskip i imagined him becoming a shichibukai and being stuffed inside with pacifistas and vegapunk weapons

 

[Tathanen]

Well,

1. Nami was in her brand new dress and as far as I can tell, did not have her magic weather stick on her. She's useless without it.

2. Nami/Chopper were not captured by "guys with guns," they were captured by Monster Gun Vito. He grabbed them while they eavesdropped. They were then held at gunpoint, yes. But I'm not sure what scenario is being described where both Capone and Vito weren't both still there. They were, along with all the mooks.

 

[Cloud Strife]

can cover nami from one side,not on 360...only thing i can see that work is if she is somehow ablte to stay "inside" the fur..but i don't think the "fur armor" works that way,othrwise it would no protect that much

Okay, once again assuming this is a 360 surrounded kind of encounter.

"Nami, duck!"

Chopper jumps up and uses guard point. It's big enough, it would work.

still needs preparation time,like all her moves really

They had prep-time. If you remember, they were the ones who initiated the conflict when searching for Sanji.

why?nami definitely isn't fast enough to dodge a bulllet,and nothing in her arsenal works as a defensive shield,unlike with chopper..and she can't really use anything anyway since she still is in front of a guy with his finger on the trigger,no matter how fast she tries to pull a move off,she is till slower than a finger pull.

See above. No one here is suggesting she can dodge a bullet on physical prowess.

well,as long as they were taken by surprise and surrounded by guns

They weren't.

You're taking this way too literally. In a series full of magic powers and abilities, you're suggesting that two prominent main characters are subdued by regular humans with guns. Until we see that they aren't regular in any way shape or form, then I will continue to say that Nami and Chopper being captured is not convincing.

 

[Tathanen]

You're taking this way too literally. In a series full of magic powers and abilities, you're suggesting that two prominent main characters are subdued by regular humans with guns. Until we see that they aren't regular in any way shape or form, then I will continue to say that Nami and Chopper being captured is not convincing.

You may have missed my post writing yours, so again: it was Monster Gun Vito who captured them, not the other random guys. He's got like two-foot-wide hands and these enormous guns that go "squish" when he holsters them. And he's named! He looks like the first mate, even. I think he's qualified to capture them.

 

[Majukun]

Okay, once again assuming this is a 360 surrounded kind of encounter.

"Nami, duck!"

Chopper jumps up and uses guard point. It's big enough, it would work.

you mean hitting the guys who the expanding fur?it might work as a surprise attack but i don't think it has as much strenght in it to KO guys..well at least chopper never used that move offensively

They had prep-time. If you remember, they were the ones who initiated the conflict when searching for Sanji.

they intiated no conflict..they were eavesdropping,and later they were all under gunpoint.

They weren't.

You're taking this way too literally. In a series full of magic powers and abilities, you're suggesting that two prominent main characters are subdued by regular humans with guns. Until we see that they aren't regular in any way shape or form, then I will continue to say that Nami and Chopper being captured is not convincing.

so basically what you are saying is that it doesn't matter what the situation is,they shouldn't be taken by goons because they are main characters,no other reason?
sorry but i can't see it like that,we agree to disagree

also,now that you forced me to re-read the chapter since i though i missed something,kaijuu hand vito was with them ,so there was an high rank guy anyway

 

[Cloud Strife]

You may have missed my post writing yours, so again: it was Monster Gun Vito who captured them, not the other random guys. He's got like two-foot-wide hands and these enormous guns that go "squish" when he holsters them. And he's named! He looks like the first mate, even. I think he's qualified to capture them.

Yeah, fair point!
If we get a future Vito encounter (likely) where we see his powers and we get a flashback to the capture then it'll obviously make sense.

As of right now though, Chopper says "Sorry, I thought there was only two of them", suggesting that they were just overwhelmed instead of Vito being a bamf. Vito definitely isn't fodder, but the whole thing just comes off as they were captured "just because".

 

[Cloud Strife]

you mean hitting the guys who the expanding fur?it might work as a surprise attack but i don't think it has as much strenght in it to KO guys..well at least chopper never used that move offensively

Nope, blocking bullets, but that could happen too.

they intiated no conflict..they were eavesdropping,and later they were all under gunpoint.

They were searching for Sanji and got captured.

so basically what you are saying is that it doesn't matter what the situation is,they shouldn't be taken by goons because they are main characters,no other reason?
sorry but i can't see it like that,we agree to disagree

Not at all, they have demonstrated throughout the series thus far how capable they are, regardless of them being main characters or not. That's not what I'm saying at all, and as it stands the scenario is equally as baseless when they were captured to move the plot along. So...

 

[MrSaturn99]

What a chapter. I knew Stelly was going to come back at one point!

Vivi and Carrot are great.

 

[AntraxSuicide]

Ace's bounty had nothing to do with Whitebeard he got it before he became a whitebeard pirate he also had a crew before he became a whitebeard pirate, so whitebeard was in effect pprotecting him. Whitebear didn't make Ace a pirate he was already one.

How much exactly do you remember of Aces backstory.

A good dad would've marched Ace back to Garp and had him renounce illegal, dangerous piracy and then live a normal safe life. That's parenting.

Like I said, it's "cool dad" Vs "good dad."

 

[Tathanen]

It would be fun to see what Ace's original crew was like at some point, we never actually got to see him acting like a captain.

 

[GhostBed]

I think it wasn't that Nami and Chopper couldn't defend themselves, it was that they didn't want to launch into a full scale battle with a Supernova and a member of Big Mam's crew and cause even more trouble for Zou. Sure Luffy had already picked a fight with Big Mam but the rest of the Straw Hats attacking her allies could bring backup to Zou and cause a big conflict. It just wasn't the right time or place to fight, so they complied and went with it. If it was set up to be a fight, Nami and Chopper would have handled it much differently.

 

[Imperial Bishop]

Just reread Dressrosa and one thing that really stood out was how unconvincing Luffy's win against Doflamingo was. Even the asspull that was Enel wasn't as disappointing as this one.

Both Luffy and Doffy were in bad shape. Oda made sure to have the characters mention that several times.
Doffy puts up a better front, but the fact of the matter is after Gamma Knife and taking very powerful blows from Gear Fourth, he was close to done. The most he could do at that point was rely on his awakening.

And another detail that needs to be mentioned is that Doffy mitigated most of the damage from Kong Gun and Leo Bazooka by blocking with his arms. King Kong Gun was a direct blow to his face where he took all of the force from G4's strongest attack.

Oda has to build up Capone as a scary member of the worst generation even though his ability is trash tier. It was too much really.

How is it trash tier? We haven't seen how well he's mastered his ability and for the record, there's rarely any devil fruit power that can't be written to be effective.
It's not the power, it's the creativity of the person using the ability.

 

[Principate]

A good dad would've marched Ace back to Garp and had him renounce illegal, dangerous piracy and then live a normal safe life. That's parenting.

Like I said, it's "cool dad" Vs "good dad."

Illegal dangerous piracy. The world government sanctions slavery and any species not human is treated like trash who cares what's illegal according to that government. Whitebeard is more moral than that government.

 

[More Fun To Compute]

How is it trash tier? We haven't seen how well he's mastered his ability and for the record, there's rarely any devil fruit power that can't be written to be effective.
It's not the power, it's the creativity of the person using the ability.

His power relies on using goons that are lucky if they last long enough to lose to a strong character in more than a couple of panels.

 

[Ray Down]

Illegal dangerous piracy. The world government sanctions slavery and any species not human is treated like trash who cares what's illegal according to that government. Whitebeard is more moral than that government.

Hell they even treat one of there own like shit, it wasn't until Dolfa had something against the WG that they started to treat him like one of there own again.

 

[Imperial Bishop]

His power relies on using goons that are lucky if they last long enough to lose to a strong character in more than a couple of panels.

Not just goons, but lots of ammunition and weapons stored in his body.
It can be even be speculated that the zone around his body can also help his defense if it can, for example, shrink an incoming punch or maybe it could even shrink the damage from said punch as well.

 

[Cwarrior]

Luffy isn't even on Doffy level, if it wasn't for the gladiators and gatz, Doffy would have murdered luffy.

Even with the supernova laws help and gear 4 it was't enough match the charismatic devil donflamingo.

 

[Ganzlinger]

I don't see much issues with Nami and Chopper being captured. We are talking about Capone Gang Bege (worth 300 million) and Monster Gun Vito, his first mate. And it's not like they were prepared for battle. Capone wanted to talk with Sanji first, it's not like they were directly threatening anyone, so they probably thought it was better to see the resolution instead of starting a reckless fight with a supernova that works for a yonkou that could end with them dead.

 

[BHK3]

In my opinion Doflamingo was almost Emperor level. He controlled the entire underworld, was a celestial dragon and just unfairly strong. The guy summoned birdcage, had independent thought string clones, can regenerate, what can't he do? To say he's on the same level as former crocodile, moria and Hancock just seems baffling to me.

I don't see much point in trying to see reason in the dressrosa fight, it took a trump card and more to defeat him. I liked the fight but dofla was made too strong and it prolonged the arc.

 

[Ganzlinger]

To say he's on the same level as former crocodile, moria and Hancock just seems baffling to me.

I agree about Crocodile and Moria. But Hancock never had a serious fight yet. I don't think she will be stronger than him but I have hope she is near his level.

 

[dabig2]

Illegal dangerous piracy. The world government sanctions slavery and any species not human is treated like trash who cares what's illegal according to that government. Whitebeard is more moral than that government.

Yeah, not to mention the fact that Goa Kingdom is pathetic as fuck. I'm pretty sure I would've turned to piracy too (or become a child soldier in Dragon's revolutionary army) if I grew up around a place like that. We were shown that flashback for a reason.

 

[GhostBed]

I don't see much issues with Nami and Chopper being captured. We are talking about Capone Gang Bege (worth 300 million) and Monster Gun Vito, his first mate. And it's not like they were prepared for battle. Capone wanted to talk with Sanji first, it's not like they were directly threatening anyone, so they probably thought it was better to see the resolution instead of starting a reckless fight with a supernova that works for a yonkou that could end with them dead.

Exactly. Nami and Chopper are smart enough to know that not every encounter has to end with a fight. Getting caught was their best option.

 

[Ray Down]

Exactly. Nami and Chopper are smart enough to know that not every encounter has to end with a fight. Getting caught was their best option.

They are also not fight crazy like Luffy or Zoro who often just want to fight for the heck of it, while Nami can fight she doesn't have that spirit and knows her strengths.

 

[Imperial Bishop]

In my opinion Doflamingo was almost Emperor level. He controlled the entire underworld, was a celestial dragon and just unfairly strong. The guy summoned birdcage, had independent thought string clones, can regenerate, what can't he do? To say he's on the same level as former crocodile, moria and Hancock just seems baffling to me.

I don't see much point in trying to see reason in the dressrosa fight, it took a trump card and more to defeat him. I liked the fight but dofla was made too strong and it prolonged the arc.

No way. An emperor would have wiped Dressrosa off the map in a short amount of time.

Where did Doflamingo display any type of regeneration? Are you referring to when he stitched up his internal wounds?

 

[Cloud Strife]

It would be fun to see what Ace's original crew was like at some point, we never actually got to see him acting like a captain.

Even if we son't there's gonna be a ton of spin off material for Oda to do once the series is done.
Wonder if he'll leave One Piece for good or keep going like Kishi.

 

[Ray Down]

No way. An emperor would have wiped Dressrosa off the map in a short amount of time.

Where did Doflamingo display any type of regeneration? Are you referring to when he stitched up his internal wounds?

Yep, Dolfa would be shitting bricks at the possibility of Kaido and his crew coming to his doorstep.

Probably.